MTB Tech Rumors and Innovation

Considering the comments (that the rocker is misaligned compared to the bottom mount) this won't do much on a trunnion shock. If you had it on both sides, then it would work as the shock could be slanted on both eyelets. The trunnion will just hold it fairly stiff regardless of what kind of a mount you have on the bottom.

(link to their site for anyone not logged into ig) https://dhsign.it/en/14-fixshox

I really like this as a general idea, I'd only seen push and cascade (on their dhx2 mullet eyelets) doing this for mtb shocks, though I don't think it would have much effect on most trunnion loading problems as the flexing is mostly occurring at the trunnion side. honestly though I'd probably run one of these anyway, and for non trunnion shocks those are amazing, I might have to see if we can order some of these for our shop

My old Demo 8 has rose joints on the Ohlins shock, was great but the side forces would pop the rose joint out of the eyelet and ram the shock into the carbon, destroying the shock mount.

I think EXT do sphericals bearings too.

"Auckland Cycle Works" has been working on dual-link design with the BB mounted on the lower link.  Not quite a URT, is it unique and what problems does it solve (or cause)?

Photos towards the end of this article: https://bikerumor.com/auckland-cycle-works-marra-reiver-kolarp

  My 1st thought is frames not being built strong enough in the shock mount & linkage area's frame twists during use did any of you tear down your bikes when it was still new? For all the complete bikes I've owned since I was 13 years old I tore them down to the frame cleaned and relube(on all my motorcycles as well)everything then started from there,  It really sounds like a frame issue that's being covered by the suspension manufacturer mounting points coming out of alignment shouldn't be happening.

If the frame is deforming to such a degree that the shock mounts go out of alignment by a milimeter or so, you're either putting SERIOUS loads into the frame and it will soon crack or it's designed so weakly, it will soon crack. 

It's probably been done before, but putting the BB on one of the links of a 4-bar design seems pretty novel to me. I've been following the guy behind it on Instagram for a while and he said the bike pedaled much better after he flipped the lower link 180 degrees (https://www.instagram.com/p/Cj5r1gWMX27/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link). I could try and model at least the leverage rate in Linkage, but I have no clue how to analyze the URT-style designs w.r.t. pedaling behavior. However, at least by the looks of it, the lower link rotates downwards as the suspension compresses, so that might help alleviate the common 'standing lockout' issues of URT designs.

I put at rough version of it in Linkage and that thing isn't that out there. The leverage ratio looks like a Santa => qickly falling, then Rising. Otherwise it gives really high Anti-rise (+200%) that is falling very quickly, with BB below the linkage the pedal kick is very low but I checked with BB above as sugested and it brings more more standard values of pedal kick. Axle path isn't that crazy it seems to have -5 to +10 of path over 120mm travel. Anti squat is the unknow that seems to make Linkage bug a big, like AR it starts very high (above 200%) but falls very quickly, but again, Linkage gives me an error message so no idea really. The one point that is interesting is the pedal kick that is very normal despite what seems to be a very high anti-squat.

*** keep in mind this is very rough guesswork to understand the basics of the suspension design and is not a proper representation of this bike.***

The iddler design was somehat more conventional than it looks, yes it has some very rearward axle path but I am not sure it is much more than say a Zerode G1 for instance which makes me question the point of using such a complicated layout when you could acheive similar results with a single pivot and linkage. 

Maverick monolink did excactly this.

https://www.leelikesbikes.com/maverick-ml-8.html

Really, I would have thought there was a certain amount of flex inherent in any bicycle design.  Full sus bikes being even more susceptible to it, with bearings and linkages.  1mm seems well within what I would have expected for frame flex with an average rider on rough terrain.

Currently have an X2 on a Knolly, no issues at all.

had a Sentinel, was amazed at how well it was aligned when installing Cascade link. Have a Spire, I’ll take it apart to see how it is, no signs of issues so far.

is it possible we are getting caught up in the details, and most frames are well within alignment specs?  What do you think are acceptable tolerances?

It’s a debatable topic… I think we can all agree that a certain amount of flex in the system enhances traction in certain conditions.

The question is, where should that flex be, in the wheels, frame or in the shock? And the amount of flex required is probably different for each rider based on their size, terrain and riding style.

At the front, manufacturers will accept a certain amount of lateral flex in the fork as necessary, surely this is the same for the rear?

Back to rumors.

New Levo SL already in the Netherlands HQ.

The front triangle is supposed to be similar to the Enduro front triangle. Previously they said its going to have 55 Nm now they are saying 45Nm. Battery size probably similar.

How can it be that there are no pics of it?

Deformation != flex in this case. BIIIIIIIIIG difference. We are talking about the frame being deformed (non-planar) just sitting there. So in the case of the frame being true when produced, we are talking about a plastic deformation. The frame deforming elastically (flexing) and moving by 1 mm, then moving back to true, is a whole different thing.

As for flex, it's a thing. EVERYTHING flexes, to some degree. We are talking about frames being deformed from the factory, putting unwanted stress on the shock all the time, and we're talking about excessive flex in the shock mounts, with trunnion shocks (which is a VERY stiff mount), killing shocks - in this case the shock design is less than optimal, Rock Shox's air shock layout gives a much sturdier shock in the trunnion variant, not damaging it as much when the frame does invariably flex.

As for the bushings (like in cars) and soft mounts, you need to know why you're doing it and how you're doing it. With cars they are there to a) reduce NVH (a solidly mounted car will be LOUD), b) make the ride more comfortable (shocks won't be transferred to the cabin to the same level) and c) to cover movement in more than one plane. Ideally with bikes you have movement in only one plane, so bushings aren't technically needed. Making the links flexible enough to not load the shocks sideways and rotationally would also be a solution. But if you go for flexy bushes, use them at both ends. A rosejoint bush is the same, just a lot more solid, but still frees up the eyelet in different directions. What Pole does is basically a universal joint and achieves the same end point, freeing up the shock side-to-side and allowing for a lot more misalignment without damaging the shock.

Are we getting caught up? Two Transition frames have been mentioned in this thread, which brings the total count that are badly out of plane on the shock mounts, that I know of, to three. In my opinion this should be zero in the field, the QC should catch that. As for the allowed tolerances, I think this is something that shock manufacturers should provide the frame manufacturers as they should test their products misaligned and see what is the point where the product still works to a satisfactory level. And the tolerance can not be zero as that is not a realistic requirement. I'm sure it's not in the range of millimeters though. Not without some serious rethink in how the shocks get mounted.

To be honest, with wheel sizes, hub standards, travel and geometries getting to a fairly stable point (I've been running the same bike for the 4th season now and I don't have a major geometry related reason to change it), improving robustness of the bikes might be the next differentiator. Sealing the bearings in the frame better, mounting the shock softly, etc.

If its the case than the big S will go from ebike market leader and innovator to just another brand.

Unless something special is happening there than 45nm and 320w+- battery just dont cut it these days in this category...

Agreed.  I did a 3,500 ft ride this weekend with a buddy who was on a gen1 Levo SL while I was on a regular bike.  He was on eco mode the whole time and didn't use the motor descending, and ended with <10% battery left after 3 hours.  I was asking him what the point was - so he was a little bit less tired?  I get the appeal of full power bikes letting you essentially self-shuttle.  I've borrowed a Turbo Levo and did 5,000 ft in 1.5 hours (turbo mode the whole time), and had 16% charge left.  But why would I want an ebike that doesn't let me do any more vertical than I'd normally ride (or much faster), just requires less effort? 

IMO, the way to make the SL ebikes more appealing would be to find a way to increase the battery but leave the torque low.  That makes them an option to let you go out and do really long rides that only require a similar amount of effort to a regular ride.  Being able to go out and do a 6k day with the same amount of work as a 3k day on a normal bike would be appealing.  Being able to do a 3.5k day in the same amount of work as a 1,750 ft ride is not.  They should increase your range, not keep it the same.

I asked around- our quality guy and dealer service techs (guys rebuilding/repairing warranty suspension stuff all day every day) and they didn't seem to think Trunnion shocks were coming in more than standard shocks.  Also looked at some warranty data- nothing is pointing to Trunnion shocks being definitively worse in terms of warranty or durability.  

All things being equal a Trunnion mount is going to be harder on the shock vs a standard eyelet.  I'm just not seeing a major difference between the two in terms of warranty issues.  

Re SL, it enables someone who is either unsure in their capabilities or is weak for whatever reason (age, health, injury) to ride with a group of non-electric bikes. And it's a different experience going down compared to the powerful beasts, it behaves like a bike.

I have a riding buddy who went on the electric bandwagon specifically after seeing an SL version of the Turbo Levo and didn't want a full power e-bike because of the weight, now a year later he's alternating between the SL and a non-powered bike as he feels his fitness is good enough (it is).

New Intense proto:

https://www.instagram.com/p/CkHBm5iOKSr/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=

I have a kenevo sl, so a slightly different bike but with the same motor. With a range extender the other day I did a 26 mile ride with 5200 feet of vert, and got back to the car with roughly 50 percent battery left, The range extender adds 50%, so I basically killed the entire main battery of the bike. Mostly in trail/ eco, so I’m not sure how these other people are killing their bikes so fast unless they have the modes turned up to add max assistance. 

this particular ride is mostly moto trails that I wouldn’t really ever ride on my regular bike, so really the little motor just opens up more options while still descending like a regular bike, also it open self shuttle options on the local jump trails that people usually car shuttle. 
 

if spec really does only make the new one only 45nm they are kind of blowing it, going from creating the lightweight ebike class to being left in the dust by everyone making both bigger motors and batteries and still coming in pretty light. Unfortunately the only real competitor to the kenevo sl is the transition relay that doesn’t have much information available yet. 

Still looks like horst link, doesn't it? (There was talking of 6 bar stuff...) They got rid of the aluminum canoe built into the downtube though

Looks like a high pivot Demo 8. Note the guy working on the. He hasn't attached the shock to the vertical link that drives the shock near the rear wheel. Gwin has a black link while the other proto's is silver. 

The bike on the right has the shock near horizontal (you can just see the lower mountain point on the vertical link behind his leg), but you can tell there's a bolt or something forward and upward (from this POV, up and left) of the bottom bracket. Seems like a Sender/Demo-type linkage, with the axle path determined by a 4-bar (in this case, a slightly higher pivot with an idler, as you can tell by the chainline) and the upper link driving a shock linkage.

From the same Intense IG post

It does look like a scissor link actuated horst link, yeah. But given what is being said on Pinkbike and Specialized's own marketing materials (!!), that might actually be the '6-bar' that was mentioned. The Demo/Enduro platform is constantly described as 6-bar by Pinkbike (just like the new Polygon).

From Canyons instagram... coming 25/10/22 it pulls the bars back to centre... However Canyon has recently(in fact all year) with lack of headset compression on Spectral CF models and Issues with BB Shells Cracking the bonding agent between the shell and carbon(very widespread covering all 2022 spectral CF models.)

We expected an update soon to remedy everything but they've gone even more proprietary on us

This is a steering damper made by Syntace for the daugther company Liteville and for Canyon.
It was presented in a German bike magazine already.

Tunes in perfectly with ABS and other noob-proof systems on Ebikes.

got a link?

Does this mean manufacturers are anticipating ebikes to reach speeds where a steering damper is necessary on trails?  Or are these just for the road-going kind?

It´s for low speeds and not for real mountainbiking. 

Weird that they put it on the Spectral which is a bike you have to pedal yourself.


This will end up on E-bikes SUVs which are delivered with Fox 36 or 38, Magic Mary 2.6, 160mm of travel but are solely used for commuting or to go to the beergarden on sunday. Fits in nicely with the dropper post which is soooo helpful at red traffic lights and with the new ABS braking helpers. KIS allows you to text on your phone without problems.

Or as someone else put it on another website about bikes:
"we are selling a considerable number of E-Enduros to people who ride them around like an SUV. They are distracted by the slack HT angles and would love more stability in low-speed use with a bike made for high speeds. So there is a market for this, its just not for real mountainbikers."