UCI grant Discovery WC rights from 2023 to 2030

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mfoga
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mfoga 2/23/2022 5:55pm
2/23/2022 5:55pm
Pretty sure it was RB shutting them down and limiting the amount of live footage they could use. Then shortly after RB started to do a similar thing Cathro was doing. I think they were iike no big deal, then wait we should be doing that so we have to stop them, ok people are mad you can do a little.
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Masjo
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Masjo 2/25/2022 10:24am
2/25/2022 10:24am
Here's a line from a question asked to Bernard Kerr on the other site that should clear up the media licensing answer, as I assume Bernard knows what he's talking about:
Previously the UCI sold all the riders' rights to our own POV footage and also made us put Red Bull logos on our videos even though we don't get paid for this. We are also never technically allowed to use our own full POV race runs, just parts of them. And Red Bull can decide how much footage and things like this.
So everyone was sort of right - Red Bull limited media output, but could only do so because the UCI allowed them to claim exclusive media rights. Seems like equal fault since RB could have opened up media more, but they didn't have to because the UCI let them take a monopoly.
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Verbl Kint
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Verbl Kint 2/27/2022 10:32pm
2/27/2022 10:32pm
At first, GoPros (and similar action cams) were restricted at the UCI mtb races that I went to purely because of safety concerns. These were even explicitly mentioned during team managers' meetings and included in communiques to teams and officials.

If I recall correctly, this stemmed from the initial findings that the GoPro on Michael Schumacher's helmet affected the structural integrity of the helmet so much that it broke in two immediately upon impact. (The renowned F1 driver had crashed while skiing off-piste in the French Alps in 2013.)

So I was surprised when this policy changed in 2019 when I saw a couple of Red Bull riders with GoPro footage of their final runs. And it seemed the policy had changed to licensing/restricting footage as opposed to a purely safety concern.
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baronKanon 2/28/2022 2:01am
2/28/2022 2:01am
The gopro ban was security based, but the teams could sign a waiver to be allowed to run them. Redbull has full video rights, so they were able to monetize on the teams signing the waivers, I guess.
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mfoga
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mfoga 2/28/2022 7:52am
2/28/2022 7:52am
Verbl Kint wrote:
At first, GoPros (and similar action cams) were restricted at the UCI mtb races that I went to purely because of safety concerns. These were even...
At first, GoPros (and similar action cams) were restricted at the UCI mtb races that I went to purely because of safety concerns. These were even explicitly mentioned during team managers' meetings and included in communiques to teams and officials.

If I recall correctly, this stemmed from the initial findings that the GoPro on Michael Schumacher's helmet affected the structural integrity of the helmet so much that it broke in two immediately upon impact. (The renowned F1 driver had crashed while skiing off-piste in the French Alps in 2013.)

So I was surprised when this policy changed in 2019 when I saw a couple of Red Bull riders with GoPro footage of their final runs. And it seemed the policy had changed to licensing/restricting footage as opposed to a purely safety concern.
Another piece of that step back on safety was it seemed that most riders ran the go pro on visor vs on the top of that shell of the helmet. That would significantly change the safety factor since it's no longer mounted to the safety portion of the helmet.
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owl-x 4/13/2022 1:50pm
4/13/2022 1:50pm
veefour wrote:
Mission statement from Discovery. https://www.digitaltveurope.com/2022/03/25/discovery-launches-home-of-cycling-push/#:~:text=2022%20is%20set%20to%20be,and%20208%20territories%20via%20GCN%2B. I wonder if they'll be pushing the UCI to increase the number of women qualifiers in WCDH so they can do...
Mission statement from Discovery.

https://www.digitaltveurope.com/2022/03/25/discovery-launches-home-of-c….

I wonder if they'll be pushing the UCI to increase the number of women qualifiers in WCDH so they can do more storytelling?

from that site:

"We’re covering the UCI Track Champions League, we’re going to be doing some mountain biking and some BMX."

Even when read in Rob Warner's voice, this is an inadequate level of stoke.
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sspomer
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sspomer 4/13/2022 2:17pm
4/13/2022 2:17pm
that stood out to me, too. "some mountain biking" - world cup is slightly more significant than that, isn't it?
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LookinForIt 4/13/2022 2:51pm
4/13/2022 2:51pm
sspomer wrote:
that stood out to me, too. "some mountain biking" - world cup is slightly more significant than that, isn't it?
"The broadcaster will produce more than 600 individual broadcasts including over 1,200 live hours of cycling for coverage in 65 markets on Eurosport and discovery+, and 208 territories via GCN+"

Given that GMBN is GCN, I guess we can expect that they will be the forefront of the MTB coverage...
That final line does feel like they are listing their priorities. It starts with road, then cyclocross, then track, and MTB and BMX are somewhere at the tail end.

I am pessimistic about this, my only hope is they forget to say no to race run helmet cams being published by racers as part of their MTB negligence.
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bulletbass man 4/13/2022 4:10pm
4/13/2022 4:10pm
That memo is definitely written for the casual road bike rider rather than hardcore cycling fan. Also probably written by a casual rather than a hardcore cycling fan.

Get ready to have every bit of fun/culture sucked out the broadcast. Low common denominator shit is all they will bother putting out. At least we will still have raw and wyn tv
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TEAMROBOT
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TEAMROBOT 4/13/2022 6:37pm
4/13/2022 6:37pm
We need Lawlor now more than ever.
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metadave
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metadave 4/13/2022 7:32pm
4/13/2022 7:32pm Edited Date/Time 4/13/2022 8:00pm
What are the chances Redbull puts their weight behind the IXS cup and tries to pull off what Freecaster wanted to do back in the day and move mainstay racers and teams away form the UCI? It almost happened before when the redbull switch happened but I dont think there was enough money. And I guess it did happen in the 90's as i remember stories about how big the NORBA series was. Maybe Redbull makes it happen with everything they've learned, bigger, better stops and an actual "World" series.

They know what their viewership is and they know they have the right team. I doubt they let racing go. They know there are pro riders and teams that are sick of the UCI and the moves they pull last minute.

Edit: Found elsewhere:

"The most recent viewing figures we have for the Red Bull series are from 2019, and they show just how great a job Red Bull did. When figures were previously released in 2015, the series pulled in around one million cumulative viewers over the season. By 2019, that had increased ten-fold to 10.8 million viewers. However, in total Red Bull’s footage from World Cups reached 82 million people via TV syndication including live summaries, recap programs, short reports or news. The implication is stark: Under the current arrangement only around an eighth of the total audience is from the marquee broadcast."

So a Redbull series with more outside sponsors not dealing with UCI rules could have 10m+ viewers.
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Eoin
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Eoin 4/14/2022 12:22am
4/14/2022 12:22am
Come one vital, bring back at least one slideshow after qualis or something next year, you are our last hope!
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veefour
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veefour 4/14/2022 4:37am
4/14/2022 4:37am Edited Date/Time 4/14/2022 4:43am
metadave wrote:
What are the chances Redbull puts their weight behind the IXS cup and tries to pull off what Freecaster wanted to do back in the day...
What are the chances Redbull puts their weight behind the IXS cup and tries to pull off what Freecaster wanted to do back in the day and move mainstay racers and teams away form the UCI? It almost happened before when the redbull switch happened but I dont think there was enough money. And I guess it did happen in the 90's as i remember stories about how big the NORBA series was. Maybe Redbull makes it happen with everything they've learned, bigger, better stops and an actual "World" series.

They know what their viewership is and they know they have the right team. I doubt they let racing go. They know there are pro riders and teams that are sick of the UCI and the moves they pull last minute.

Edit: Found elsewhere:

"The most recent viewing figures we have for the Red Bull series are from 2019, and they show just how great a job Red Bull did. When figures were previously released in 2015, the series pulled in around one million cumulative viewers over the season. By 2019, that had increased ten-fold to 10.8 million viewers. However, in total Red Bull’s footage from World Cups reached 82 million people via TV syndication including live summaries, recap programs, short reports or news. The implication is stark: Under the current arrangement only around an eighth of the total audience is from the marquee broadcast."

So a Redbull series with more outside sponsors not dealing with UCI rules could have 10m+ viewers.
This is what I'm clinging to. The hope that Red Bull will take the concept of DH1 a bit further than Freecaster did.
Here's a link to a Vital story back in 2012, shortly before Freecaster dropped the idea, IIRC mainly due to RB announcing they would provide free live coverage of WC racing.
https://www.vitalmtb.com/news/news/DH1s-Outlook-to-2012,403
RB seem to be well positioned to develop an alternative series, which could well become a real "world" series if they made it more attractive for prospective venues, ie. not making them pay through the nose to host a la UCI money grabbing bastard mode.
Getting involved with the IXS cup would be a great way of testing the water.
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jonkranked
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jonkranked 4/14/2022 7:24am
4/14/2022 7:24am
RB still has Rampage and Hardline (don't they sponsor some of the urban races too?), so it's not like they'll be out of mtb altogether. to the above points, i'm inclined to agree that they won't just walk away from MTB racing (xc and DH) and let bygones be bygones after all they've invested into it the last ~10 years.
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bb rides 4/14/2022 8:02am
4/14/2022 8:02am
discovery+ is also now in charge of broadcasting the ifsc climbing worldcup: https://www.8a.nu/news/discovery-to-broadcast-ifsc-events-until-2024

I realized this when I wanted to watch the first competition last weekend and I was disappointed because it wasnt free anymore on youtube.

i didnt rewatch it yet but people say it sucked because the usual commentator wasnt allowed to commentate the event and was replaced by someone incompetent. also people say that images were awful, it seemed like the camera guys/girls had no idea what they are doing/filming.

bottom line: it sucks and sport fans hate the new system.
just check "ifsc" on facebook: https://www.facebook.com/sportclimbing

i hope this wont happen with dh wc.
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chacou
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chacou 4/14/2022 9:30am
4/14/2022 9:30am
Curious to see what the Warner Bros - Discovery merger means for watching DH races next season. Maybe HBO+ subscription will include UCI DH WC races Wink
bulletbass man 4/14/2022 10:23am
4/14/2022 10:23am
chacou wrote:
Curious to see what the Warner Bros - Discovery merger means for watching DH races next season. Maybe HBO+ subscription will include UCI DH WC races...
Curious to see what the Warner Bros - Discovery merger means for watching DH races next season. Maybe HBO+ subscription will include UCI DH WC races Wink
I think a series competing with the uci is pretty far fetched but there is a ton of opportunity for events worthwhile of Red Bull’s, bike brand’s, and riders time. American and aus/ New Zealand can both support quality events if the talent is getting paid to go.
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veefour 4/14/2022 10:37am
4/14/2022 10:37am Edited Date/Time 4/14/2022 10:39am
bulletbass man wrote:
I think a series competing with the uci is pretty far fetched but there is a ton of opportunity for events worthwhile of Red Bull’s, bike...
I think a series competing with the uci is pretty far fetched but there is a ton of opportunity for events worthwhile of Red Bull’s, bike brand’s, and riders time. American and aus/ New Zealand can both support quality events if the talent is getting paid to go.
I don't think Freecaster would've gone as far down that road as they did if it wasn't a viable proposition. If Discovery's coverage is as good as, or an improvement on RB's coverage (unlikely IMO), then there's a good chance nothing will happen, but if coverage is poor and viewing numbers drop, then I wouldn't be surprised if RB or someone else (possibly even an amalgamation of teams and another internet based broadcaster) might look at an alternative.

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bstens 4/14/2022 11:04am
4/14/2022 11:04am Edited Date/Time 4/15/2022 8:37am
Redbull also does Crankworx.. Although that production is always lacking compared to the World Cup show. I'm an avid, die hard fan and love the sport but when comparing Crankworx, even Hardline, and Rampage to World Cup, it's literally no contest - that also comes down to the seriousness and competition of the racers.

I 100% want to believe in it and see it happen but it's hard to imagine Redbull being able to take the vibe of World Cup to a different series. Can't say it's not possible, just that their other productions haven't convinced me it's feasible. Again could be apples / oranges.

All that said, it's hard not be pessimistic, especially when thinking about all the great commentators Redbull brought in during the 2021, and now 2022 season.
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Primoz 4/14/2022 12:48pm
4/14/2022 12:48pm
Good comment about competitors. An alternative series would need something (besides viewership) to bring in the racers to have the proper weight. Monetary incentives (lower fees, higher prize funds) would help for sure to bring in the competition, the it goes on from there.

One issue would be the titles - could the overall winner be titled as the world champion and the like, if it's not UCI approved? What would that do to the pull oft he series vs. UCI World Cup? The World Cup is the World Cup after all. Are there sports where an alternative league is worth more than the world title? NBA & co. comes to mind, but this is where money comes into play and even then world champs are important for the players.
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owl-x 4/14/2022 1:22pm
4/14/2022 1:22pm
Haha you guys are pretty far along with this Red Bull Cup idea...Discovery hasn't even ruined WC DH yet!

I am on board for it, though. Even it it were a retirement league.
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veefour
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veefour 4/14/2022 1:32pm
4/14/2022 1:32pm Edited Date/Time 4/14/2022 1:40pm
Primoz wrote:
Good comment about competitors. An alternative series would need something (besides viewership) to bring in the racers to have the proper weight. Monetary incentives (lower fees...
Good comment about competitors. An alternative series would need something (besides viewership) to bring in the racers to have the proper weight. Monetary incentives (lower fees, higher prize funds) would help for sure to bring in the competition, the it goes on from there.

One issue would be the titles - could the overall winner be titled as the world champion and the like, if it's not UCI approved? What would that do to the pull oft he series vs. UCI World Cup? The World Cup is the World Cup after all. Are there sports where an alternative league is worth more than the world title? NBA & co. comes to mind, but this is where money comes into play and even then world champs are important for the players.
The Freecaster CEO Ray Du lieu claimed the UCI invited him to run DH1 alongside their calendar.
https://www.mbr.co.uk/news/event_news/freecaster-to-launch-rival-race-s…
Trek, Scott and Santa Cruz were some of the companies signed up as sponsors. It won't be good for anyone, including the UCI, if viewer figures drop.

Edit; on reflection I suppose it could be good for the guys here at Vital. ;-)



baronKanon 4/14/2022 10:25pm
4/14/2022 10:25pm
A separate league needs to be sanctioned by UCI, or else the riders can be banned from any UCI sanctioned event. Your UCI license can be revoked if you compete in non-UCI cycling competitions... This was up for debate some years ago
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jonkranked
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jonkranked 4/15/2022 6:00am
4/15/2022 6:00am
baronKanon wrote:
A separate league needs to be sanctioned by UCI, or else the riders can be banned from any UCI sanctioned event. Your UCI license can be...
A separate league needs to be sanctioned by UCI, or else the riders can be banned from any UCI sanctioned event. Your UCI license can be revoked if you compete in non-UCI cycling competitions... This was up for debate some years ago
you say that like it's a bad thing Wink

it would certainly be more of a concern for XC racers, at least the ones that would want to go to the olympics.
Primoz
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Primoz 4/15/2022 8:59am
4/15/2022 8:59am
Is EWS sanctioned by UCI? I mean being barred from UCI events, maybe 'not being a bad thing', could be cumbersome as you couldn't do local XC, enduro, DH events (national champs?), EWS, etc.

Though, is Hardline UCI sanctioned? If not, it could be a reason for the barring? THough there isn't much of an incentive for UCI to do that, unlike with a separate DH series...
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baronKanon 4/15/2022 10:28am
4/15/2022 10:28am
Primoz wrote:
Is EWS sanctioned by UCI? I mean being barred from UCI events, maybe 'not being a bad thing', could be cumbersome as you couldn't do local...
Is EWS sanctioned by UCI? I mean being barred from UCI events, maybe 'not being a bad thing', could be cumbersome as you couldn't do local XC, enduro, DH events (national champs?), EWS, etc.

Though, is Hardline UCI sanctioned? If not, it could be a reason for the barring? THough there isn't much of an incentive for UCI to do that, unlike with a separate DH series...
UCI is sanctioning the EWS. Local cycling federations have sanctioned local races in different countries, and some years ago, evem official national championships emerged. This is actually one reason Zakka is flying the Swedish flag rather than representing Norway (he is both Norwegian and Swedish).
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grambo 4/22/2022 11:53pm
4/22/2022 11:53pm
Was listening to the Lourdes wrap-up Moving the Needle podcast with Sven Martin and he mentioned something interesting: Chris Ball (of EWS fame) was formerly the tech delegate for DH, and is a former WCDH racer himself, and apparently is somehow involved in the Discovery/WCDH relationship. A positive sign, but really there is sooooo much positive momentum and polish with the Red Bull production right now I just cannot see how Discovery isn't perceived as at least an inferior step down if not outright failure, at least in season 1.

They better secure Rob Warner.
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Mr.Nally 4/24/2022 6:39am
4/24/2022 6:39am
grambo wrote:
Was listening to the Lourdes wrap-up Moving the Needle podcast with Sven Martin and he mentioned something interesting: Chris Ball (of EWS fame) was formerly the...
Was listening to the Lourdes wrap-up Moving the Needle podcast with Sven Martin and he mentioned something interesting: Chris Ball (of EWS fame) was formerly the tech delegate for DH, and is a former WCDH racer himself, and apparently is somehow involved in the Discovery/WCDH relationship. A positive sign, but really there is sooooo much positive momentum and polish with the Red Bull production right now I just cannot see how Discovery isn't perceived as at least an inferior step down if not outright failure, at least in season 1.

They better secure Rob Warner.
It's no mystery has to how Chris Ball is involved

https://www.svgeurope.org/blog/headlines/discovery-invests-in-ews-owner…
veefour
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veefour 5/7/2022 5:30am
5/7/2022 5:30am Edited Date/Time 5/7/2022 5:41am
After reading the press release below I wonder if we'd have ended up paying for Red Bull coverage before long anyway. It's a bit unclear whether Red Bull will continue to stream for free on their own site in future or not. The Wings For Life World Run mentioned below is going to be aired for free on the RB site and I think we'd have seen something regarding WC racing if we had to pay for it for the rest of the season. I guess we'll see as time goes on. DAZN subscription is £7.99 per month in the UK.
One thing I know for sure, Crankworx coverage would need to improve an awful lot before I'd consider paying for it.

PRESS RELEASE: DAZN

DAZN, the global sports streaming service, has agreed a distribution deal with Red Bull Media House to stream the Red Bull TV linear channel on its platform globally, bringing Red Bull’s collection of inspiring sports and lifestyle entertainment to fans around the world.

The multi-year agreement sees DAZN expand its offering into live extreme sports through Red Bull TV to include coverage of the Crankworx World Tour, the Red Bull Cliff Diving World Series and the Drift Masters European Championship, among others.

DAZN will also stream a curated selection of Red Bull’s original documentaries, series, highlights and archive programming, to offer fans a greater breadth of sport storytelling from around the world. Programme availability will vary across markets but will include docu-series Driving Dirty: The Road to Baja, Red Bull Soundwave and Road To 55: The Drive To Become A Formula 1 Racer , alongside archive series, Red Bull X-Fighters and Red Bull Street Style, to name a few.

Where available, this will also include local language programming in DAZN’s core markets.

Red Bull TV’s programming will be available to DAZN subscribers across all its 200+ countries and territories from Wednesday 4 May 2022. The first event to be broadcast live on the channel will be Wings for Life World Run on Sunday 8 May 2022, which sees professional athletes, fun runners and beginners racing together against the Catcher Car at the same time, worldwide.

Tom Burrows, DAZN EVP of Rights, said, “DAZN is fast becoming a home of true entertainment for the world’s most innovative and compelling sports. Red Bull has a fantastic reputation for showcasing thrilling live events and captivating sporting stories that capture the imagination of fans around the world. We’re delighted to bring Red Bull TV and its programming to DAZN on a global scale.”

Red Bull TV joins DAZN’s premium portfolio of live sports and original programming, including the world’s biggest leagues and competitions UEFA Champions League, UEFA Women’s Champions, Bundesliga, LaLiga, Serie A, J.League and Matchroom Boxing.

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