MTB Tech Rumors and Innovation

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lewzz10
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lewzz10 4/27/2021 7:20am
4/27/2021 7:20am Edited Date/Time 4/27/2021 7:22am
@Primoz, XTR/Saint level centrelocks have come in 203mm for a while now. Both RT-99 (M9000) and 900 (M9100) have anyway.
1
baronKanon 4/27/2021 7:44am
4/27/2021 7:44am
I have no CL rotors that have a snug fit around the splines, both with and without adapters, both with cheap and expensive adapters. This is just horrible. We also have seen issues with FUBAR disks needing to be removed to be able to get back home. Robin Wallner had a race affected by this, as nobody is carrying a CL tool on a ride. And do you carry a HT2 or cassette tool. ISO: 6 torx bolts, and finished. I am actually considering replacing a very good wheelset as I got it in CL due to availability.
1
Primoz
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Primoz 4/27/2021 8:45am
4/27/2021 8:45am
@lewzz10 I know they do, the current XTR ones are actually CL only, there is no 6-bolt option. I specifically mentioned Sram for the example of cross-compatibility, it wasn't about what size is available and what isn't. Plus not all rotors work well with all calipers and, like I mentioned, I really wouldn't like a sandwich rotor, so the XTR/Saint stuff is quite a no-go for me Smile

@baronKanon FUBAR meaning bent? This actually is a valid point. And not only is nobody carrying a CL tool (the cassette tool or the rear or for QR wheels isn't that much of an issue), nobody is carrying a breaker bar to use said tool.

Though, again, if I toot my own horn, the stiff spider might help here too Tongue
Suns_PSD
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Suns_PSD 4/27/2021 12:03pm
4/27/2021 12:03pm
hitar_potar wrote:
Are the Syndicate on 6-bolt hubs? Also, the rotor seems to have the same shape holes on the braking surface as the old rt-99, the current...
Are the Syndicate on 6-bolt hubs? Also, the rotor seems to have the same shape holes on the braking surface as the old rt-99, the current mt900 rotor has very different ones. Why go back in design? Would be good to finally have a 6-bolt super-rotor from Shimano, it only took them 9 years to make it (a full decade if we take into account the prototype stages of the first freeza-rotor (the rt-99).
baronKanon wrote:
Syndicate are on Chris King, and they have for some insane reason decided to go Center Lock only. WHYYYYYY! Never Chris King ever again. Center Lock...
Syndicate are on Chris King, and they have for some insane reason decided to go Center Lock only. WHYYYYYY! Never Chris King ever again. Center Lock is the devil's work. It is bad for everyone but the poor mechanic building hundreds of bikes in a fast pace.
CL hubs are considerably easier to machine. Whether the hub manufacturer passes on this savings to his customers is yet to be determined but that is a legitimate and valid reason to prefer CL rotors.
Primoz
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Primoz 4/27/2021 12:27pm
4/27/2021 12:27pm
Debatable actually, as the hub is something you keep for a while while the rotor is a wearable, replaceable part. It makes sense to have the wearable part simpler and cheaper. From the consumer's point of view.
1
Tarhic
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Tarhic 4/27/2021 11:15pm
4/27/2021 11:15pm
Totally off the topic above, but any inside about a new Bronson this year ? We had the new Nomad last year, the bronson should be the following one right ?
2
Fred_Pop
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Fred_Pop 4/28/2021 1:02am
4/28/2021 1:02am
metadave wrote:
Serious question, what is the issue people have with centerlock? Am I the only one who's enjoyed using them? Quick to change and install. I've never...
Serious question, what is the issue people have with centerlock? Am I the only one who's enjoyed using them? Quick to change and install. I've never had an issue personally. Have I just been lucky?
My issue with centerlock is a) you have to tighten it super tight or it comes loose and b) they is always a bit of play which is super annoying. Next wheels I will be back to trusty old 6 bolt!
1
lewzz10
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lewzz10 4/28/2021 2:15am
4/28/2021 2:15am
Fred_Pop wrote:
My issue with centerlock is a) you have to tighten it super tight or it comes loose and b) they is always a bit of play...
My issue with centerlock is a) you have to tighten it super tight or it comes loose and b) they is always a bit of play which is super annoying. Next wheels I will be back to trusty old 6 bolt!
My DT 240s have no play (Shimano rotors, or DT 6-bolt adapters).
metadave
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metadave 4/28/2021 7:06am
4/28/2021 7:06am
metadave wrote:
Serious question, what is the issue people have with centerlock? Am I the only one who's enjoyed using them? Quick to change and install. I've never...
Serious question, what is the issue people have with centerlock? Am I the only one who's enjoyed using them? Quick to change and install. I've never had an issue personally. Have I just been lucky?
Fred_Pop wrote:
My issue with centerlock is a) you have to tighten it super tight or it comes loose and b) they is always a bit of play...
My issue with centerlock is a) you have to tighten it super tight or it comes loose and b) they is always a bit of play which is super annoying. Next wheels I will be back to trusty old 6 bolt!
I've definitely come across many centerlocks that were not properly torqued and were loose on new builds as people don't check them during the build, but that's more a matter of younger shop employees trying to rush stuff.

I'd be interested in knowing what hubs your using, I wonder if it's a manufacturing tolerances from some companies. I've used Shimano, Mavic and DT centerlock hubs with no issues myself.

From a mechanics stand point, I've been on team centerlock for a long time due to quick swaps, and less builders/jr mechs stripping holes or bolts. I've drilled out far to many seized or damaged rotor bolts in my life than one should....
2
noeserdalt 4/28/2021 7:11am
4/28/2021 7:11am
I used centerlock with cheap shimano hubs back in the day and there were no play at all, whatever hub you are using their tolerences aren't tight
1
bermslapper69 4/28/2021 7:32am
4/28/2021 7:32am
Tarhic wrote:
Totally off the topic above, but any inside about a new Bronson this year ? We had the new Nomad last year, the bronson should be...
Totally off the topic above, but any inside about a new Bronson this year ? We had the new Nomad last year, the bronson should be the following one right ?
June is the timeframe I've heard but with supply issues could be whenever. Supposedly going to be a mullet as well.
1
EugenM
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EugenM 4/28/2021 7:47am
4/28/2021 7:47am
metadave wrote:
I've definitely come across many centerlocks that were not properly torqued and were loose on new builds as people don't check them during the build, but...
I've definitely come across many centerlocks that were not properly torqued and were loose on new builds as people don't check them during the build, but that's more a matter of younger shop employees trying to rush stuff.

I'd be interested in knowing what hubs your using, I wonder if it's a manufacturing tolerances from some companies. I've used Shimano, Mavic and DT centerlock hubs with no issues myself.

From a mechanics stand point, I've been on team centerlock for a long time due to quick swaps, and less builders/jr mechs stripping holes or bolts. I've drilled out far to many seized or damaged rotor bolts in my life than one should....
also using CL with no issues. tune hubs, 200mm rotors.
1
Tarhic
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Tarhic 4/28/2021 8:06am
4/28/2021 8:06am Edited Date/Time 4/28/2021 8:08am
bermslapper69 wrote:
June is the timeframe I've heard but with supply issues could be whenever. Supposedly going to be a mullet as well.
Thanks ! Hope they will leave the opportunity to have a full 27.5 ... but interesting to see what it will be ! It is such a fun bike to ride !
Primoz
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Primoz 4/28/2021 8:17am
4/28/2021 8:17am
jonkranked wrote:
i was speculating last week with a buddy that when shimano eventually launches new saint it will include 220mm rotors. this morning i came across this...
i was speculating last week with a buddy that when shimano eventually launches new saint it will include 220mm rotors.

this morning i came across this....

https://singletrackworld.com/2021/04/shimano-launch-huge-220mm-discs-fo…
Not looking bad if I'm honest. But, considering Shimano offers 140, 160, 180 and now 200 mm rotors, FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, WHY do they still have 203 mm rotors?? And they're not the only ones. Why?! 203 mm rotors should just die already.

On another note, do any rotor designers check to see if the cross section of the braking surface along the perimeter (over the braking pad length) is somewhat constant? These do not appear to be like that and variations in the effective braking surface area can cause vibrations...
5
rockchomper
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rockchomper 4/28/2021 8:49am
4/28/2021 8:49am Edited Date/Time 4/28/2021 8:51am
Primoz wrote:
Not looking bad if I'm honest. But, considering Shimano offers 140, 160, 180 and now 200 mm rotors, FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, WHY do they...
Not looking bad if I'm honest. But, considering Shimano offers 140, 160, 180 and now 200 mm rotors, FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, WHY do they still have 203 mm rotors?? And they're not the only ones. Why?! 203 mm rotors should just die already.

On another note, do any rotor designers check to see if the cross section of the braking surface along the perimeter (over the braking pad length) is somewhat constant? These do not appear to be like that and variations in the effective braking surface area can cause vibrations...
To be faaaaiiiiirrrrrrr, the industry standard was 203mm until Sram decided they wanted to change things and make a 200mm rotor which is one reason people get mad a Sram. They have been known to try and create alot of new standards making things confusing and proprietary.
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Primoz
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Primoz 4/28/2021 9:33am
4/28/2021 9:33am Edited Date/Time 4/28/2021 9:35am
"To be faaaaiiiiirrrrrrr", Sram said FU to the 160, 185, 203 rotor stack which makes no sense and went for the (140), 160, 180, 200, (220) stack, where the jumps are even 20 mm. Which means you need a +20 mm adaptor to go from a 160 mm frame to a 180 mm rotor. And the same adaptor to mount a 200 mm rotor to a 180 mm frame. So you need a +20 and a +40 adapter, that's it. You needed a +25 (or a '185') and a +43 (or a '203') adapter before, but what do you do when you get a PM180 frame? Or a PM200 frame? Washer up the +5 or +3 mm (well, half of that)? And a +23 mm adapter?
Case in point, a friend of mine went from a 200/180 setup on a PM180 fork and frame to a 220/200 setup, which required buying one new rotor and one new adapter - the front setup was carried over to the rear. Had he had a PM160 frame, he'd need two pieces of the same +40 mm adapter.

Hate Sram all you want, going to the 140-200 with 20 mm jumps stack makes all the damn sense in the world. And this is why I'm so flabberghasted, companies gladly threw away the 185 mm rotors for the smaller, sensible 180 mm variants, but why is the 203 mm version still kicking around?!

They might make new standards and confusion, but this is a case of where the confusion and proprietaryness has been DRASTICALLY lowered.
14
Martin_Prophet 4/28/2021 12:43pm
4/28/2021 12:43pm
Summum Carbon
1
juliusk
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juliusk 4/28/2021 12:47pm
4/28/2021 12:47pm
Martin_Prophet wrote:
Summum Carbon [img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2021/04/28/10757/s1200_Screenshot_20210428_194545_Instagram.jpg[/img]
Summum Carbon
1. Those seatstays look like from an xc bike
2. Why is the chain so short that the derailleur has to make such pull
4
Dickscruttock 4/28/2021 2:11pm
4/28/2021 2:11pm
Tarhic wrote:
Totally off the topic above, but any inside about a new Bronson this year ? We had the new Nomad last year, the bronson should be...
Totally off the topic above, but any inside about a new Bronson this year ? We had the new Nomad last year, the bronson should be the following one right ?
Rev up the Mullet.
2
nollak
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nollak 4/28/2021 11:35pm
4/28/2021 11:35pm
Are those e.13 wheels? Can't remember but think they were on something different last season.
grambo
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grambo 4/28/2021 11:45pm
4/28/2021 11:45pm
nollak wrote:
Are those e.13 wheels? Can't remember but think they were on something different last season.
They were on e13 wheels last year (just looked up a Laurie Greenland world champs interview)..

Agree WTF on the chain length.
3
loic.penel 4/29/2021 1:12am
4/29/2021 1:12am



2 New 100% Helmets, The Altis (Jet) and the Aircraft 2 (light Aircraft, like the Trajecta)
3
trpfanboy
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trpfanboy 4/29/2021 5:16am
4/29/2021 5:16am
grambo wrote:
They were on e13 wheels last year (just looked up a Laurie Greenland world champs interview)..

Agree WTF on the chain length.
Weren't they also on Maxxis for a year or two? It looks like they've gone back to Michelin.
trpfanboy
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trpfanboy 4/29/2021 5:18am
4/29/2021 5:18am
grambo wrote:
They were on e13 wheels last year (just looked up a Laurie Greenland world champs interview)..

Agree WTF on the chain length.
It looks like they're back on Michelin. I remember they had switched to Maxxis for a year or two.
hitar_potar 4/29/2021 5:38am
4/29/2021 5:38am
Primoz wrote:
For a new Saint group?
jonkranked wrote:
i was speculating last week with a buddy that when shimano eventually launches new saint it will include 220mm rotors. this morning i came across this...
i was speculating last week with a buddy that when shimano eventually launches new saint it will include 220mm rotors.

this morning i came across this....

https://singletrackworld.com/2021/04/shimano-launch-huge-220mm-discs-fo…
No 220mm ice-tech rotor? Not even just a floating one? That’s kinda strange! Weren’t Shimano, upon releasing the Ice Tech, explaining how each size ice tech rotor is effective and as good as the next bigger size non-ice tech one?
nollak
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nollak 4/29/2021 5:55am
4/29/2021 5:55am
grambo wrote:
They were on e13 wheels last year (just looked up a Laurie Greenland world champs interview)..

Agree WTF on the chain length.
trpfanboy wrote:
Weren't they also on Maxxis for a year or two? It looks like they've gone back to Michelin.
Think they switched to Maxxis last Season if I remember correctly.
Philip_Rossetti 4/29/2021 9:28am
4/29/2021 9:28am
nollak wrote:
Think they switched to Maxxis last Season if I remember correctly.
No, they have been on Michelin since 2019.
1
Big Bird
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Big Bird 4/29/2021 9:30am
4/29/2021 9:30am
juliusk wrote:
1. Those seatstays look like from an xc bike
2. Why is the chain so short that the derailleur has to make such pull
It looks to me like a single speed set up on that bike. The derailleur looking thing is just a chain tensioner to handle chain growth through the travel.
6
Primoz
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Primoz 4/29/2021 9:47am
4/29/2021 9:47am Edited Date/Time 4/29/2021 9:48am
Nah, just the chain on the biggest cog on what appears to be ~5 cogs in total. And maybe they don't have that much CS growth through the travel? The derailleur caaaaaaan take up some more 'slack'. Plus it's taught like this in order to improve the tension in the chain. Shifting performance isn't as crucial in DH as it is in XC and the like I guess... I mean the chain looks to be somewhat far away from the cassette, but on the other hand a taught cage doesn't influence the cassette distance as much on a classic derailleur.
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