Are Global DH Bikes Sales Falling?

Krispy
Posts
34
Joined
12/3/2009
Location
Salt Lake City, UT US
10/20/2020 3:22pm
As an old school downhiller, I sold my last DH bike 15 years ago and have been riding Freeride, Super Enduro whatever 170mm bikes since, and racing DH on them. Why?? Dropper post! Versatility! I have such a hard time owning such an expensive single use bike. It makes me crazy to stare at the DH bike that I can't use more often.

I just got a V10 this year, since my wife and I share bikes. She needed a tool to unlock speed. It is absolutely mind blowing. My first run on it made my EXT equipped Nomad feel like a hardtail. I switched bikes and had to pull over to see if there was something wrong with my Nomad!! I dropped probably 10 seconds off my race times, haven't lost a race on it. I stopped ruining wheels.

But.. when I'm at Bootleg waiting for the god damn shuttle I just want to get on the Nomad. When I'm at the park I just want to get to my hotel and it is such a pain in the ass to ride 2 miles uphill. And...the Nomad is faster and more fun on most bike park trails. I'll keep tweaking Big Pedalers to make them even better.

No doubt the kids I coach explode with speed when they get their first DH bike and I'm glad the tool for accelerated learning is available to them. You'll never know your true potential until you spend time on a true DH bike.

At Go-Ride we used to sell mostly DH, now we sell about 5 a year and that's mostly to the kids on our Team. Giant doesn't even import the Glory to the US anymore. How many Enduro bikes do we sell? 100 or more?

Blame the modern Enduro bike, but be thankful that all these people getting hooked on DH are growing the sport and more bike parks are opening all the time!
7
rockchomper
Posts
174
Joined
12/19/2019
Location
Rancho Cucamonga, CA US
10/20/2020 3:57pm Edited Date/Time 10/20/2020 4:14pm
I can see this killing the DH bike market, because I would give up my DH bike for this
https://www.vitalmtb.com/features/Ultra-Long-210mm-Travel-Enduro-Machin…
they're are maybe one or two other bikes Id swap a DH for! I actually wanted this at mammoth because the trails are gnarly enough for a dh rig but you have to pedal pretty far from the lift to get to them, for instance its decent climb to get to DC-10 trail but that trail is way more fun on a DH so if these super enduro bikes using dual crowns become more popular then I will switch but until then DH is my bag!
1
Zuestman
Posts
189
Joined
10/27/2014
Location
Seattle, WA US
10/20/2020 3:58pm
Eoin wrote:
Maybe the "DH is the formula one of MTB" isn't such a simplistic saying after all. After the grim donut video, I read a few comments...
Maybe the "DH is the formula one of MTB" isn't such a simplistic saying after all. After the grim donut video, I read a few comments saying brands should build up race specific one off bikes... Looking at those numbers it seems to almost be the case. A DH bike for the race team, a handful of enthusiasts and some rental shops (which always seem to be giant/scott in Europe).

Imagine if the EWS were able to put on a better live show to match UCI DH (which I don't see happening), barely any DH bikes would get sold.
UCI rules don’t allow for non production, one off bikes
sspomer wrote:
is that technically the rule? crazy if so b/c what are gwin and neko riding? those are prototypes. cannondale experiment last year? etc.
I think you are allowed to update the frame geo etc, build prototypes of a bike that dont make it to market....but the bike has to exist... Intense has teh M29 DH bike...and the 27.5 version to i think? You can develop, but doesnt have to be the exact perfect match if you are clear it is a prototype for testing... but eventually yes the model needs to exist.
kwapik
Posts
89
Joined
8/31/2017
Location
NAS Fallon, NV US
10/20/2020 4:21pm Edited Date/Time 10/20/2020 4:22pm
EugenM wrote:
No one needs real #overthemountain #epicdayride usability..just a perceived one. Also, a big shout to this forum's system; lost the best part of 40 minutes writing...
No one needs real #overthemountain #epicdayride usability..just a perceived one.

Also, a big shout to this forum's system; lost the best part of 40 minutes writing a reply with compeling(IMO) arguments pro and against dh bikes, future sales and future racing(references to the past(history of the sport), geos, diff articles on the subject).

Read it twice to be sure it is as good as I'm personaly capable from a syntax pov...then I clicked 'submit'...and the message "you have been atutomatically logged out" filled my phone screen and, at the same time, my heart with a big no. of effffffs!
I think Cube was involved somehow in deleting your post Wink Wink
6
jeff.brines
Posts
1225
Joined
8/29/2010
Location
Grand Junction, CO US
10/20/2020 6:30pm
Eoin wrote:
Maybe the "DH is the formula one of MTB" isn't such a simplistic saying after all. After the grim donut video, I read a few comments...
Maybe the "DH is the formula one of MTB" isn't such a simplistic saying after all. After the grim donut video, I read a few comments saying brands should build up race specific one off bikes... Looking at those numbers it seems to almost be the case. A DH bike for the race team, a handful of enthusiasts and some rental shops (which always seem to be giant/scott in Europe).

Imagine if the EWS were able to put on a better live show to match UCI DH (which I don't see happening), barely any DH bikes would get sold.
UCI rules don’t allow for non production, one off bikes
sspomer wrote:
is that technically the rule? crazy if so b/c what are gwin and neko riding? those are prototypes. cannondale experiment last year? etc.
Look back for an old Roskopp interview Sven did when the 29er V10 came out. He touches on this. He says exactly what Adventure Time wrote...

10/20/2020 7:20pm
I believe the rule is that the bike has to be brought to market in a certain time frame from when it was debuted in a race in order to remain eligible. They may have been full of it but I heard part of the reason cannondale pulled out of wc dh is that they didn’t bring the new dh bike to market or Have any new ideas they wanted to prototype.

I believe the rule was made up for the road world as tdf budgets exploded and the uci simply chose to apply it universally to all disciplines.
yzedf
Posts
244
Joined
1/27/2015
Location
Hebron, CT US
Fantasy
10/20/2020 7:36pm
I’ve done my part and bought a dh bike this spring. 8 of us went to Highland this past weekend, 4 dh bikes and 4 enduro bikes, seems to be how most groups I see go. Last fall I spoke with one of the Cannondale guys and I mentioned not selling 500 bikes and he didn’t disagree, but they are a smaller brand that’s been out of dh for a minute or two now.
1
mfoga
Posts
746
Joined
9/21/2015
Location
Moreno Valley, CA US
Fantasy
10/20/2020 8:04pm
I know a lot of us who don’t bother with DH bikes. Enduro bikes are nearly as capable as a DH bike under a average rider. 20-30mm of oh crap makes a little difference but not enough unless you are not racing to have both bikes. Plus a lot of places where DH bikes got ridden in SoCal it was overkill. My current Enduro is almost as slack, is longer and lower than my last DH bike. Also rides much better and is faster than the DH bike on the same trails plus it can be pedaled. If I lived somewhere with some proper legit DH tracks maybe I would get a DH bike,

DH bikes are become more race cars where you use them to test things for your street cars(enduro/trail bikes).
taldfind
Posts
143
Joined
8/6/2012
Location
Blackfoot, ID US
10/20/2020 8:31pm
In summary of what I understand so far:

-DH sales are down because modern Enduro bikes are so awesome.
-Modern DH bikes are more capable at descending than modern Enduro bikes.
-As bikes across the board have become better, more challenging trails have not been built. In fact, bike parks (once the domain of DH bike trails) have been building mostly easy trails to accommodate new riders on trail bikes.

The way I see it, if the industry continues in this direction, DH bikes will cease to exist in the next 10-20 years. WC DH bikes will just be Enduro bikes with a longer travel, dual-crown fork, and if events like Rampage and The Fest Series are still held, the riders will either also be on moded Enduro bikes, or they will be on special, non-production bikes.

Personally, I think the industry is shooting itself in the foot on this. Lift/Shuttle Bike parks should be making trails to suit a large range of riding levels, but they should focus on people riding those trails on bikes that suck to pedal uphill. Otherwise, why would I pay to be taken up when I can do it myself for free? I imagine that is why many of these parks don't cater to the Nordic Ski crowd nearly to the degree they do the Alpine Ski and Snowboard groups.

So if we don't want the DH bike to go the way of the Dodo, what can we do to encourage lift/shuttle bike parks to build trails that make buying a DH bike worth it?

Or is the real problem that manufacturers, bike shops and media aren't doing enough to promote DH bikes?

Or is the problem all in my head?
4
mtbkluth
Posts
6
Joined
10/18/2017
Location
CH
10/20/2020 9:34pm Edited Date/Time 10/20/2020 10:30pm
i worked for one of the big bikebrands and even if worldwide sales of dh bikes seem high to most people, they will not pay for development, salaries, etc. especially if carbon. in the grand sheme of thing they are great to develop new technologies that then get handed down to enduro and trail bikes. (trail bikes is still a much bigger market than enduro) also dh bikes is what people look at on shop floor and then buy the enduro or trail bike. so dh bikes have a big impact on business through innovation, testing, brand awareness and recognition, etc. but not through sales mainly and more often than not are cross financed via marketing budgets. so i dont see dh bikes go away anytime soon. this may be differen for direct sales businesses like yt perhaps. they can maybe make it work as a business unit. there are exceptions like yeti for example that seem to basically live off richie rude and manage to get that drive for sales through him and not dh podiums.

10/20/2020 9:56pm
Well duh, Sam Hill doesn't race one anymore.

Same reason why Enduro sales are booming....Woohoo
2
_Lan
Posts
40
Joined
12/23/2019
Location
AO
10/20/2020 10:02pm
They should just make dh bikes dropper post compatible and have provision for a water bottle then call them hyper Enduro bikes. Problem solved
4
EugenM
Posts
79
Joined
8/18/2016
Location
TF
10/20/2020 11:25pm
kwapik wrote:
I think Cube was involved somehow in deleting your post Wink Wink
(Gold. 😁) of course, haven't you heard of CubeAnon and CubeDeepState?Whistling
4
10/21/2020 12:15am
Eoin wrote:
Maybe the "DH is the formula one of MTB" isn't such a simplistic saying after all. After the grim donut video, I read a few comments...
Maybe the "DH is the formula one of MTB" isn't such a simplistic saying after all. After the grim donut video, I read a few comments saying brands should build up race specific one off bikes... Looking at those numbers it seems to almost be the case. A DH bike for the race team, a handful of enthusiasts and some rental shops (which always seem to be giant/scott in Europe).

Imagine if the EWS were able to put on a better live show to match UCI DH (which I don't see happening), barely any DH bikes would get sold.
UCI rules don’t allow for non production, one off bikes
sspomer wrote:
is that technically the rule? crazy if so b/c what are gwin and neko riding? those are prototypes. cannondale experiment last year? etc.
The prototype has to result in a production for resale model within 12 months.
EugenM
Posts
79
Joined
8/18/2016
Location
TF
10/21/2020 12:20am
_Lan wrote:
They should just make dh bikes dropper post compatible and have provision for a water bottle then call them hyper Enduro bikes. Problem solved
+12 speed drive trains and steep STAs.
4
Eoin
Posts
371
Joined
3/6/2015
Location
FR
Fantasy
10/21/2020 12:47am
Slightly off topic, but a quick note regarding a few "bike parks are too easy, think of the children" comments:

Oisin O'Callaghan who just swept junior WC DH grew up at the bottom of Ireland's (possibly the world's) easiest bike park (his dad was involved in running it). It is pretty much an XC/trail bike park where 140mm is already too much bike, you go there to pedal 60km on nice flowy hardpacked trails (I really like the trails there, don't get me wrong).

So don't worry about kids building up skills, bike parks have their place and it is fine if they mostly go the flowy/jump line route to cater to that demand. Kids will always huck down a gully off the beaten path.

4
10/21/2020 2:55am
When we talk about how many dh bikes are sold (let's say in a year) compared to the past we have to account for different things: numbers of bikes sold and rate of dh/enduro bikes sold by manufacturers (I'm talking about enduro because those are the direct "conpetitor" of the dh market). Are dh bike not sold anymore (this would mean that dh bikes used to be sold more) or is the rate just decreasing because manufacturers are just selling more enduro bikes? I guess it's a mix of both, but it's a big difference to me. If it's just the rate decreasig then I don't see dh bike going away, as they are a usefool tool for development and for brand popularity/image. If dh bikes are not being sold anymore, they will cease to exist as a product easily available to consumers.
BTW it's true bike parks are perfectly enjoyable with a good enduro bike, but I don't think it's because trails are easier, at least not all of them. Big bike parks are building jump trails (which I think are the evolutions of those boring plain flow trails built when parks were popping up everywhere) and those are probably more enjoyable with a enduro bike or with a freeride dh bike (like commencal's furious). But the "old" trails are just not hard, technical, steep, gnarly enough to mandate riding a dh bike. However enduro bikes have evolved plenty enough to ride those trails. IMO, this is a big factor why people seem to opt for enduro rigs instead of dh bike. I live close to many bike parks and I have to say, there are just 2 trails that are really worthy of a dh racing bikes and I'm often a bit frustrated about this, because I like to ride "proper" dh tracks and I race. If I didn't race and if I wasn't a park rat I'd go for an enduro bike myself.
I see dh bikes going away if we don't see some differentiation in bike parks trails in the near future.
2
smelly
Posts
218
Joined
3/7/2016
Location
Colorado Springs, CO US
10/21/2020 3:11am
Eoin wrote:
Slightly off topic, but a quick note regarding a few "bike parks are too easy, think of the children" comments: Oisin O'Callaghan who just swept junior...
Slightly off topic, but a quick note regarding a few "bike parks are too easy, think of the children" comments:

Oisin O'Callaghan who just swept junior WC DH grew up at the bottom of Ireland's (possibly the world's) easiest bike park (his dad was involved in running it). It is pretty much an XC/trail bike park where 140mm is already too much bike, you go there to pedal 60km on nice flowy hardpacked trails (I really like the trails there, don't get me wrong).

So don't worry about kids building up skills, bike parks have their place and it is fine if they mostly go the flowy/jump line route to cater to that demand. Kids will always huck down a gully off the beaten path.

Right. Likewise, Surrey Hills has produced how many talented, internationally famous riders? A helluva lot more than Switzerland, Austria, Italy...
Steep, challenging terrain is not a prerequesite to building skill. Lots of riding time is.
1
noox
Posts
14
Joined
3/13/2013
Location
Salzburg AT
10/21/2020 4:03am
I don't get the discussion about making an enduro bike more DH-like or a DH bike more enduro-like. In my opinion there is a reason why these are two different bike categories. I remember this fast rough section at an otherwise pretty beginners friendly park. When you go for it you may hear some "donks" on the rim like in the Maribor rock garden. But it feels so fast and I really like this section. Maybe two years ago I rode my old 26" V10 from 2012, a friend his new 29" Slash. On the enduro bikes we have pretty much the same speed but here he had absolutely no chance. On the other hand on the easier trails the downhill bike feels just wrong.

For me also the kind of cycling is different. When we are on the enduro bike we rather tend to ride as many different trails as possible but each one usually only once. Usually slower technical trails or flow/jump trails. On the downhill bike for me it was much more a race like approach: riding one track over and over again. Becoming more precise every time. Hitting jumps I would not hit on the first run, not caring about the bike no matter how rough the track is, ...

Sometimes on our enduro rides we ride a track we usually rode on our DH bikes. For me this feels so wrong as in my head I know how fast we where going back then. But if I ride such a track maybe the first time for over a year I wont hit a jump with a blind landing - they might have changed it. Or I don't double a section because it might become close afterwards if I'm not exactly on the right line. Or I "search" through a rock garden not hitting my EXO oder DD tires and rims too hard where with the DH bike you just go for the straight line. Of course we could ride the track more often on the enduro bike. But do I really want to torture it that way? Ok, I could set up the enduro bike that it becomes closer to a DH bike. But I'm sure it wont pedal as good and it wont be as funny as before on the flow trails or smaller jump trails.
2
10/21/2020 6:58am
Aggy did rampage on a modded Enduro bike with a dual crown
1
10/21/2020 7:49am
Aggy did rampage on a modded Enduro bike with a dual crown
I think most brands will head in the evil/rm direction and make their longest travel single crown bike dual crown compatible and have special links and headcups to keep their riders happy. Maybe occasionally offer a limited dh version to public. Some brands will always be passionate enough about dh to have a model (intense, transition) and others are simply large enough to dedicate time and resources to an increasingly fringe market. Especially since the dh market is good advertising for selling trail or even xc bikes.
1
wilbersk
Posts
7
Joined
9/7/2020
Location
Bellingham, WA US
10/21/2020 8:11am
bb rides wrote:
also what i think is going to happen is that more and more enduro/freeride bikes will be able to be ridden with a dual crown fork...
also what i think is going to happen is that more and more enduro/freeride bikes will be able to be ridden with a dual crown fork (like the new norco shore or the capra). with 20mm more travel they have similar axel to crown length, so this should be possible without messing up the geo. would be nice for a day at the park and the rough stuff. AND way cheaper than a full bike
That’s definitely my plan. I think the DC fork and HTA is the biggest difference between a DH and enduro bike.
EugenM
Posts
79
Joined
8/18/2016
Location
TF
10/21/2020 8:15am
bb rides wrote:
also what i think is going to happen is that more and more enduro/freeride bikes will be able to be ridden with a dual crown fork...
also what i think is going to happen is that more and more enduro/freeride bikes will be able to be ridden with a dual crown fork (like the new norco shore or the capra). with 20mm more travel they have similar axel to crown length, so this should be possible without messing up the geo. would be nice for a day at the park and the rough stuff. AND way cheaper than a full bike
wilbersk wrote:
That’s definitely my plan. I think the DC fork and HTA is the biggest difference between a DH and enduro bike.
When even agressive trail bikes can be had with a 63 HA, for big enduro bikes, it is only about DC compatibility and actual fact of using a DC on them.
1
Big Bird
Posts
2292
Joined
2/1/2011
Location
Oceano, CA US
10/21/2020 8:36am
UCI rules don’t allow for non production, one off bikes
sspomer wrote:
is that technically the rule? crazy if so b/c what are gwin and neko riding? those are prototypes. cannondale experiment last year? etc.
The prototype has to result in a production for resale model within 12 months.
So what happens if a rider wins a race on a prototype bike that then fails to make production? Are they stripped of their title after those twelve months are up?
10/21/2020 8:38am
Eoin wrote:
Maybe the "DH is the formula one of MTB" isn't such a simplistic saying after all. After the grim donut video, I read a few comments...
Maybe the "DH is the formula one of MTB" isn't such a simplistic saying after all. After the grim donut video, I read a few comments saying brands should build up race specific one off bikes... Looking at those numbers it seems to almost be the case. A DH bike for the race team, a handful of enthusiasts and some rental shops (which always seem to be giant/scott in Europe).

Imagine if the EWS were able to put on a better live show to match UCI DH (which I don't see happening), barely any DH bikes would get sold.
UCI rules don’t allow for non production, one off bikes
I don't think that's true for DH or enduro, just road. Think of how many prototypes have been raced by Intense, for example.
10/21/2020 9:10am
My 2 cents...

I sold my last DH bike 15 years ago.. At that point I had ridden it twice within the last year and I needed the money.. With my Slash, I've ridden trails that used to be reserved for the DH bike and I didn't have to push the bike up to the top.. Last DH bike I rode was a rental, so it wasn't a good experience... Harsh on the fork, undersprung out back.. Hit the same trails on the Slash later on and that confirmed an Enduro rig was enough for me..

In my current situation, a bike that I can ride more places is better than a bike I can only ride with lift access or a shuttle. Would I buy a DH bike again? Only if I move to the mountains and I am close to a chairlift... That's about the only way I could justify it..
1
Zuestman
Posts
189
Joined
10/27/2014
Location
Seattle, WA US
10/21/2020 9:15am
At this point, I still want a DH bike... just something about them. There is nothing that rides like one... but until I get closer lift access it isn't worth it. NOW... what I do want to do, E-DH (this won't create a shitstorm I know!). Take a long travel e-bike (170-190 rear travel, only 27.5 available right now i think) and then mullet with a 180-190 29r DH fork up front. Damn near a DH bike and can ride all the "DH" trails around here that I would otherwise be pushing to the top of. Yes the enduro bike is great there as well, but still nothing like the DH bike and feel like it will get a LOT more use than a dedicated DH sled. And, no shuttling gas etc, more laps, and will go to a lift access if it is worth it.
1
10/21/2020 9:24am
Zuestman wrote:
At this point, I still want a DH bike... just something about them. There is nothing that rides like one... but until I get closer lift...
At this point, I still want a DH bike... just something about them. There is nothing that rides like one... but until I get closer lift access it isn't worth it. NOW... what I do want to do, E-DH (this won't create a shitstorm I know!). Take a long travel e-bike (170-190 rear travel, only 27.5 available right now i think) and then mullet with a 180-190 29r DH fork up front. Damn near a DH bike and can ride all the "DH" trails around here that I would otherwise be pushing to the top of. Yes the enduro bike is great there as well, but still nothing like the DH bike and feel like it will get a LOT more use than a dedicated DH sled. And, no shuttling gas etc, more laps, and will go to a lift access if it is worth it.
Zuestman
Posts
189
Joined
10/27/2014
Location
Seattle, WA US
10/21/2020 9:28am
Zuestman wrote:
At this point, I still want a DH bike... just something about them. There is nothing that rides like one... but until I get closer lift...
At this point, I still want a DH bike... just something about them. There is nothing that rides like one... but until I get closer lift access it isn't worth it. NOW... what I do want to do, E-DH (this won't create a shitstorm I know!). Take a long travel e-bike (170-190 rear travel, only 27.5 available right now i think) and then mullet with a 180-190 29r DH fork up front. Damn near a DH bike and can ride all the "DH" trails around here that I would otherwise be pushing to the top of. Yes the enduro bike is great there as well, but still nothing like the DH bike and feel like it will get a LOT more use than a dedicated DH sled. And, no shuttling gas etc, more laps, and will go to a lift access if it is worth it.
exactly...but maybe not Haibike Tongue
1
groghunter
Posts
90
Joined
5/18/2013
Location
Tucson, AZ US
10/21/2020 9:29am
a point that i haven't seen here, that i think is worth making: My 2018 Patrol is not slower or less capable than my 2008 M9 was, or my 2005 Demo 8, or 2004 Big Hit. Modern Enduro bikes are less capable than modern DH bikes, but they're better and faster than even a 5 yo DH bike, IMO.

If i spend the most on the bike i ride the most, and the DH bike is second or third priority, that means i'm looking at a bike a few years old. and if the few year old DH bike isn't any faster or more capable than my enduro, why even own it? especially now that my shorter travel bike isn't holding me back in any situation outside of racing?
4

Post a reply to: Are Global DH Bikes Sales Falling?

The Latest