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75
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4/4/2018
Location
Dacono, CO
US
I'm in the market to go full on full face. Looking for some honest opinions and if anyone, unfortunately, has taken any hard hits with some of the options out there. First off, safety is key to me. I've had around 10 concussions in my short 28 years. That's why I chose the 6D half helmet earlier this year when I got back into riding and honestly, I've never really been sold on MIPS. However, as my skills and speed have progressed this year, I'm starting to feel unsafe in the half helmet. Lets hear what you run, why, and what you think so far.
However, I have friends with the Switch Blade and Super DH. The MIPS in the Super DH is one of the best ive seen and the mouth piece is confidence inspiring. But I do find both the Super's mouth pieces are pretty large and in charge to carry around if you're trying to ditch the backpack at all. The switchblade seems to have that solved although isn't as venty.
I haven't tried any of the newer super vented non transformable helmets yet
edit: all that to say, i would steer away from the removable chin piece ones. I think they will be obsolete in a few years.
That being said, I do think there is something to the dedicated full face enduro helmet. The new Leatt looks good, but sounds like it runs hotter than say, the Fox Proframe.
Plenty of choices to make that's for sure.
Also, when looking at the Bell moto helmets, their most expensive helmet doesn't even offer MIPS, rather it's their own FLEX system. Seeing this also makes me think there are better options out there if Bell isn't offering it in their top of the line helmet.
The Bell Super DH does look impressive, I'm just not quite keen on a chin bar that is designed to come off. I'm sure Bell has tested this extensively but I'm just not there. Right now I'm leaning towards the Fox Proframe but want to look more into the Leatt as well and would rather support a company like this thinking outside the box. 6D just needs to come out with an enduro full face already, TAKE MY MONEY!
As for MIPS, I spoke to an Arai rep about that product recently. We were on the subject of motorcycle helmets, but it was a notable conversation. I was interested to hear why they haven't invested in a "next-gen" style motorcycle helmet liner, and their take on it was thought-provoking. He didn't say MIPS was a gimmick, but he did note that helmets with angular, bulky attachments are much more likely to cause rotational energies in the first place. Those energies can be transmitted to the wearer. (Arai's philosophy has always been to produce more roundly-shaped helmets.) I guess their belief is that a well-shaped shell is still a better preventative feature than a trick liner.
One thing that I think is key in the Fox and Bell helmets is the multiple foam densities being used, as I think that will really help with those small impacts. As much as we wear helmets to save us from that major bail, a heavy angular DH full face can really whip your head around and maybe cause even more trauma than a half-shell. Note: I have nothing solid to back that up on, but it would be similar reasoning as to why you wouldn't wear a full on motorcycle helmet for DH: it's designed for a different kind of impact and the extra weight is just asking to rattle your brain and neck.
As for removable vs non-removable chin bar, I don't know which is better. The Bell and Giro convertible helmets have a more solid appearance with the chin bar on, but they just can't physically be as solid as an integrated one (I assume). However, is the Fox Proframe's massive holes really any better?
MIPS spherical does seem to be the best way to integrate MIPS, but I don't know many companies using it in a full face other than Bell at the moment. There are other constructions out there that may provide better protection under certain scenarios, but it's hard to tell without a rigorous independent test and I don't think our current standards do enough for this.
I think I may pick up a Proframe because my local 'mountain' basically requires you to race enduro (not really, but it's a significant pedal from the chair to anything fun). I really like the MIPS spherical that is integrated into the Bell Super DH and would like being able to have one helmet, but I am unsure about the removable chin bar and if you crash you would need to replace one (or both) part(s) of a very expensive helmet. Every week or so I flip between thinking one is better and then the other!
Edit: Also, make sure you try them on! I know a few people who can't work with the Bell Super 3R because the chin bar was too short for their face. In that sense, helmets like the TLD Stage and Fox Proframe would fit more like a 'true' DH helmet.
- Ventilation is great and the liner feels more like a half shell with cheekpads than a typical fullface. I rarely take it off on climbs anymore (Washington weather) and have used it on huge rides with no issues.
- It feels very sturdy all around and has plenty of crush zone. I haven't had any serious head hits in it but feel safe wearing it.
- If I don't have to do significant pedaling or I'm racing I'd still rather wear the D3. It just feels more solid (I think largely because it muffles noise better) and I think the hard shell will withstand minor damage better than the Proframe.
- I'm not sold on MIPS and the Proframe's implementation is particularly bad. The brow pads tend to shift around and expose a sharp edge of the MIPS liner that can range from annoying to painful
- Without goggles in place MIPS lets the helmet shift around a lot
I'm completely sold on the idea of well vented, fixed chinbar, DH certified helmets. The safest helmet is the one you're willing to wear, and the Proframe got me wearing a fullface more often. I'm happy with it but when it needs replacing I'll be shopping around some of the newer options like the Leatt DBX 4.0, TLD Stage, Bell Super DH (not a fan of removable chinbars but this one seems ok), or even something like the POC Coron Air Spin that seems to have pretty good ventilation for a full on DH helmet.
The proframe is pretty good at heat management, if it’s really hot I pull out the cheek pads for the ups. I have no issues with the mips personaly but it’s a little annoying that the visor is fixed position sometimes ie running your goggles backwards. Would be very interested in a stage tho.
As others have said, I --personally/subjectively-- can't see how the MIPS would help anything in a crash, and the forehead padding can be incredibly uncomfortable if it folds the wrong way when you put it on due to the MIPS layer digging into your skull (it just takes a quick readjustment to solve).
I would try a proframe or TLD stage to see which fits you better and go with that. I tried a few detachable chin helmets in shops and found them very flimsy with the exception of the giro switchblade, but the giro didn't fit my head at all.
I've about 3 other half shell helmets but the Proframe is what I go to 8/10, especially to new or less frequently ridden locations.
The new Leatt looks great and I'll probably consider that or another just incase but I'm avoiding the detachable chinbar ones. I've heard and seen enough to put me off.
MET Parachute
Bell Super 2R
Bell Super 3R
Giro Switchblade
Bell Super DH
Fox Proframe
Also a Giro disciple (regular DH full face). Thoughts on each:
MET Parachute: very comfortable, light weight, very goofy looking. Poor chin/jaw coverage, still got face rash when crashing with it twice before I totaled it.
Bell Super 2R: loved the removable chinbar, great helmet. Needed to pull these plastic pads out of the inside to make it fit. No huge crashes, wanted a more secure feeling helmet for Enduro racing so got a:
Giro Switchblade: this helmet sucked. Very uncomfortable to get on, heavy, hot. Took a digger wearing it at a bike park and the chin bar came off (on review the plastic clips on the upper shell where the metal arms of the chinbar clip into bent and broke) allowing my face to drag on the ground and get some good rash. Guess it saved me from a broken jaw though. My least favorite of all those I've tried.
Bell Super 3R: got after my foray with the Giro. No huge difference from the 2R. Good helmet overall, got dinged up from low hanging branches, etc. over a year of ownership so replaced it with the:
Bell Super DH: noticeably larger and slightly heavier than my 2R/3R. Much more secure feeling with the chinbar on but also rather uncomfortable. Chin bar noticeably more difficult to attach than with the 2R/3R. Use this mostly for my halfshell now but still bring the chinbar along if doing a big climb/big descent type ride. But uncomfortable to wear in full face mode for prolonged periods so got the:
Fox Proframe: favorite of the enduro/light full face helmets so far. Honestly I notice very little difference in ventilation compared to the Super DH in halfshell mode, and it's loads lighter/more comfortable/better ventilated than the Super DH in full face mode. Not as secure feeling overall as the Super DH, so I use my Giro true full face for bike parks or more gnarly enduro races.
Hope this helps. For what it's worth all helmets have done a good job saving my noggin when crashing in them.
Anyway, if you have any questions about the Stage, holler....otherwise, hit them down votes, its my thing around here.
I ride the same trails with my DH bike and my trail bike. I wear half lid on trail bike and full face on DH. Hell, I don't even wear a helmet when I'm riding around the neighborhood. The safest is probably to be on the DH bike but I feel compelled to wear the GEARZZZ.. If I wear a half lid on dh bike or full face on a trail bike it doesn't feel right.
Racing Enduro (and climbing) with a full face on any hot day is torture, I got that but i can't get behind wearing these lightweight full face on regular trail (not racing). It just looks stupid.
From the bystander:
- it looks like you re a kook and don't know what you are doing if you need this level of protection.
- it looks aggressive, intimidating and unfriendly to the other trail users, what kind of speed and what kind of control do you have on public traisl if you need this kind of equipment.
- We could man-up and assume a little bit of risk in our life, wtf, if we really don't want to be hurt maybe we should not ride in the first place
A good enduro full face will help in the event of a crash but it won't 100% save your jaw or your head just like MIPS won't prevent you from getting a concussion. It will help in a certain percentage of possible crash scenarios yes, but the odds that you will experience one of these crash scenarios is always changing and never predictable. So why always prepare for the worst just in case? After all, how high can your confidence be as a rider if you have a ton of gear on??
I'd rather not risk my eyes or my face to a fall. I risk enough as it is just driving to the park. I mean look around; everyone is distracted while driving.
I can sort of understand the bystander aspect, but that is small potatoes. Just say hello or hi and be friendly, no intimidation there.
Victorise, you're just in a different place in life than me, man. I've been chasing adrenaline rush's since my first memories, it's embedded in me and will not be going away anytime soon. But I also have a 2 year old to provide for and yes, I'm taking risks as it is riding bikes, but I'd also become a shitty dad if I didn't get out and recharge my soul. Last time I checked, top level pros get hurt too, and they have way more control than I do. One millisecond in lapse of concentration can mean the difference between riding 100% in control, and going face first into a jagged rock. Not to mention mechanicals that can be out of your control. As far as looking like a kook, I already said in this thread that I am accepting that as it's my opinion that the visors on half these helmets look ridiculous, including the TLD Stage (sorry Stickman, I will graciously accept your down vote for that one). Safety is the concern, not looks. I also go out of my way to give a friendly, "Hi, how are you?" to EVERYONE I pass on the trail. Common courtesy and just being a descent human being is what will keep our trails open to bikes, not what you're wearing.
As to the impression given while wearing a FF on trails that I have ridden multiple times on a singlespeed CX bike, I would rather not risk the compromised structural integrity of the front of my head, but that’s just me. I do feel like a doofus sometimes, but the nice thing about being in your late 40s is that you realize that adults riding bikes in dirt are kinda silly anyway, so what’s another layer of dorkiness?
As the ED of our local trail advocacy group, I go out of my way to yield and be friendly to other trail users, but I do think that the impression that hikers/dog walkers/trail runners have is that I’m going to blow right by them with the FF.
Los
I might as well wear the uniform with my Met Parachute.
Takes a long time, but it'll get stronger/less sensitive.
You would find the Proframe significantly lighter and airier than a full face normally feels. The modular pad sizes that come with it are very nice as we have differently proportioned features.
I would never consider the proframe for a climb in hot weather. When we have to climb in freezing weather, it's actually nice to have it on. If you can handle it on a legitimate hot summer day, you're a massochist.
The downsides are its loud, really loud. Every branch you tap with it is a snare drum in your ear. Also, if you wear it with glasses vs goggles (we have 30+ min gravity runs and the goggles get irritating) it has ram-air intake along your temples and into your ear. If you are riding through "buggy" areas with glasses on the bugs will get in your ears very frequently.
That new Stage looks pretty sweet, and the modular pad scheme comes with those as far as I've read. Might try it next.
cheers
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