Karabuka that was my point, effective top tubes have barely changed (enough to cover the stem lengths and the relative horizontal location of the 'seat end of ETT' and the seat itself - the steeper the SA, the more forward the seat is, requiring a longer ETT for the same seat to bar length, at least in the XL frame size realm), but reach values have grown a lot, mostly due to the seat tubes getting steeper. If you rotate the seat tube around the joint with the top tube (keeping the ETT more or less the same), the BB...