The sustained vertical isn’t there and y’all can think I’m crazy, but both Duluth Minnesota and Marquette Michigan have phenomenal riding and some really good tech...
The sustained vertical isn’t there and y’all can think I’m crazy, but both Duluth Minnesota and Marquette Michigan have phenomenal riding and some really good tech laps. They just happen to be 2.5 minutes in length not 5-10.
But the access is phenomenal, the towns are rad, and they’re cheap compared to anything out West.
You do have winter though.
I grew up in Salt Lake but just moved from the U.P. of Michigan to Grand Junction Colorado and I would take Marquette or Duluth riding over SLC/GJ any day.
To each his own, but there's well over a 1000 miles of singletrack in the surrounding SLC area and so much more vert than the UP...
To each his own, but there's well over a 1000 miles of singletrack in the surrounding SLC area and so much more vert than the UP. Housiing is expensive and air quality is susepect in the winter, but it's also a much milder winter than the UP.
(**Please read this as a friendly and jovially rebuttal, not confrontationally)How much of that 1,000 miles would you really want to ride regularly if you're being...
(**Please read this as a friendly and jovially rebuttal, not confrontationally)
How much of that 1,000 miles would you really want to ride regularly if you're being honest with yourself? And how much is accessible to someone living and working in West Jordan after work (where MAYBE you could afford a house)?
Marquette has well over 150 miles of interconnected single track and Duluth more than 250 miles that can be accessed from multiple points in town and no more that a 10 minute drive from virtually anywhere. You could also easily afford a house in both places that is within an easy ride to the trailheads to access all this.
Trails like this in Marquette are 5 minutes from downtown and pedal-able from multiple neighborhoods:
And yes, way less vert, but vert for vert's sake isn't always better. Another illustratable example for this would be skiing. If you want vertical, Park City has 3,000 feet of it, but it's all pretty boring. The U.P. absolutely can't compete on that. If you want to get into gnarly terrain where you never have to vie with others for tracks, I can give you plenty of that:
cheap places usually means low income as long as you are not a remote worker. so living cost to earn ratio should be similar. i‘d place...
cheap places usually means low income as long as you are not a remote worker. so living cost to earn ratio should be similar. i‘d place riding quality above living costs…
This. My job doesn’t exist outside of major cities so the debate about cost of living is moot (at least for me). Moved to SF after school 20 years ago so I could surf everyday, then discovered bikes 6 years ago and couldn’t believe my luck. We can ride year round and there are legit trails within 30 minutes in every direction.
Yeah I think you gotta consider that wherever you go there's (usually) gonna be an inverse ratio for cheapness and quality of trails. Finding that sweet spot is difficult and depends on what you value more. That being said, there are loads of spots in the Southeast that are pretty great. If you're ok with ~an hour of travel for your weekend rides, just pick a spot with decent local trails that's within an hour or two of Asheville, Knoxville, etc. Or WV. Lots of good stuff out here and if you hunt around there's reasonable housing.
I'll throw out a sleeper that I was interested in, the area around Harrisonburg VA has a lot within an hour or two. The trails by Reddish Knob are pretty great and you have Snowshoe like 2 hours away. It's not Asheville, and I wouldn't get a place in Hburg itself, but if you don't mind the south, you could do a lot worse.
I moved to Knoxville from Denver 5 years ago. Zero regrets. The west is great for looking at gorgeous mountains and for having over 300 days...
I moved to Knoxville from Denver 5 years ago. Zero regrets. The west is great for looking at gorgeous mountains and for having over 300 days of rain-free riding per year. But the trails, campsites, and cool towns are hella crowded.
Also, the toll of climate change on the Rockies is real, and the winters keep getting shorter and drier, and the smoke is getting more constant. I mean, we are all contributing to that, no matter where you live, with our car-centered life. But when you are literally driving out 70, into the mountains to have fun, and that snow patch keeps getting smaller every season...I'm pretty sure I saw the same patterns in Utah, New Mexico, California, and the Northwest, particularly places like Tahoe and the Wasatch, felt, even more dry / fragile to me.
Anyway, Knoxville is great. Halfway between Kanuga and Windrock, and pretty awesome local trails here. Windrock is the best downhill bike park for serious downhillers in the US. Besides that, I have 6 downhill-only trails, built and maintained free of charge, from my back door in South Knox. And an asphalt pump-track. If I just want to pedal, it's almost 40 miles of trails within the city limits. There's lots of people who hate on this area of the country because of politics, but personally, I watched Colorado change from red to blue in the 15 years that I lived there, so it's possible here too. Also, I've met plenty of people from minority groups here that grew up here, and refuse to leave, despite the menace of gun-toting Christian Nationalists, so, I guess a straight, white 50-something dude can hack it too.
People are also real here--something that is often (thought not always) missing from trust-fund towns like Boulder and the ski resort towns of the west.
If you're into fishing, boating, and some of the other motor-oriented outdoors stuff, or kayaking, frankly, the Southeast is hard to beat. Climbers seem pretty happy here too.
What's the crime rate for "gun-toting Christian Nationalists"?
Generally low, but acts of intimidation (which is what open gun-carrying is, btw), and race-related terrorism are highest among white men.
I googled it for you:
"right-wing extremists have perpetrated the majority of terrorist attacks and plots in the United States, accounting for roughly 57% of incidents between 1994 and 2020 according to the Center for Strategic and International Studies (CSIS). In terms of personal demographics (such as race and citizenship), the vast majority of domestic terrorism offenders in the U.S. are U.S.-born citizens and predominantly White. [1, 2, 3]"
But yeah, voter-intimidation, and political disenfranchisement are much more common in the South than elsewhere. But I imagine you're ok with that?
Generally low, but acts of intimidation (which is what open gun-carrying is, btw), and race-related terrorism are highest among white men. I googled it for you: "right-wing...
Generally low, but acts of intimidation (which is what open gun-carrying is, btw), and race-related terrorism are highest among white men.
I googled it for you:
"right-wing extremists have perpetrated the majority of terrorist attacks and plots in the United States, accounting for roughly 57% of incidents between 1994 and 2020 according to the Center for Strategic and International Studies (CSIS). In terms of personal demographics (such as race and citizenship), the vast majority of domestic terrorism offenders in the U.S. are U.S.-born citizens and predominantly White. [1, 2, 3]"
But yeah, voter-intimidation, and political disenfranchisement are much more common in the South than elsewhere. But I imagine you're ok with that?
Citing Vox? Let me cite the Daily Wire in response.
"This place is awesome, except the people who made it that way" is an attitude I'll never understand. Generalizing an entire population because of Hollywood stereotypes is breathtaking.
Kimberley BC. Cheaper than all mountain towns in southern half of BC. Pretty darn good biking. Much from your door. $400k CDN for a house. Golden BC...
Kimberley BC. Cheaper than all mountain towns in southern half of BC. Pretty darn good biking. Much from your door. $400k CDN for a house.
Golden BC. Next cheapest. $500k for the cheapest house. World class riding from your door. Quiet on the trails.
Northern BC. Terrace, Williams lake, etc. cheaper than Kimberley. Great riding.
All those towns are sick, but you must love winter as well. arguably better skiing.
I do somewhat agree that Western NC is a bit pricey, but compared to a lot of other outdoor destination areas its really not that bad. Sadly, housing cost are what they are these days. The greater Asheville area seems really solid on a number of levels. Economy seems pretty solid, especially compared to other south eastern Appalachia areas, and culturally it has quite a lot to offer. Also you have easy access to more great riding the mid Atlantic and northeast!
My wife and I are looking to move there in the next year or so, looking more towards the Fletcher/Arden area so we can be close to both Asheville and Brevard. I still need to be able to get back to Atlanta pretty regularly, want an easy drive to great trails, and I don't want to leave all the nice parts of living in a city behind. Im exited, I love it up there.
if you want to be able to ride year-round (and sure, it's a bit colder in winter and hotter in summer), western nc is hard to beat. rock creek, windrock both open year-round. kanuga too. i love in charlotte-as some other have said my job is tied to bigger cities-and feel like it's pretty good. glad we got in 20 years ago. wide variety of trail systems in a 30-mile radius. and 2-ish hours to lots of hills. somewhere like morganton seems nice if you don't need the bigger city for a job-close to the best backcountry in the state and a variety of lift/shuttle not too far. or black mountain area. or bryson city. knoxville could also be up there. no one has mentioned roanoke. good riding there. and not far to snowshoe, va dh places.
Imperia region of Italy. See Paul Aston and his bike farm. Buy some ancient stone place in Molini for 50k and make it livable. Then ride ride...
Imperia region of Italy. See Paul Aston and his bike farm.
Buy some ancient stone place in Molini for 50k and make it livable. Then ride ride ride.
How does someone even make this work? Are the doors open to other western countries? I'd assume learning the local language would be a must as well. But that area is insanely beautiful!
How does someone even make this work? Are the doors open to other western countries? I'd assume learning the local language would be a must as...
How does someone even make this work? Are the doors open to other western countries? I'd assume learning the local language would be a must as well. But that area is insanely beautiful!
They are open to anyone, you can search the youtube and you will find more and more people vlogging their italian home renovations. Italy has a lot of hilly rural areas with terrible demographics and very little traditional economic prospect and therefore the real estate price variation is absolutely ridiculous for a developed country (appartments easily cost 10-15x more in the city centers, for example of Milano). Few years ago they were even selling houses for like 1€ trying to attract people to live in the areas with worst demographics (like central Sicily), but there were terms like that you have to move there permanently etc. I mean you will learn the language after some time, I actually follow one of the first moved to Italy vloggers and he said his italian is still super basic as the people working in the services he mostly needs speak enough english.
How does someone even make this work? Are the doors open to other western countries? I'd assume learning the local language would be a must as...
How does someone even make this work? Are the doors open to other western countries? I'd assume learning the local language would be a must as well. But that area is insanely beautiful!
If you want to come to Italy, you have to know there are parts of it that have now living costs as high as Switzerland. South Tyrol, my home, is now unaffordable due to the overwhelming tourism. The bloddy dolomites get trampled over and the results are skyrocketing prices. Think of Jackson hole!
But there are plenty of old houses and terrain left behind in other zones. Buying there isn't or shouldn't be a problem. Actually there are zones, where you can buy 1€ houses in Italy as they are confronted with dying towns, especially in the areas where there is no work. In certain areas you will get a contribution from the municipalities if you are willing to establish your residence there!
The problems start after you've bought. Bureaucracy while renovating, missing infrastructure and a very old population especially in remote "bikingfriendly" regions makes it a little hard to get things moving. However, if you buy in a cheap region, the cost of living is also cheap. There are still places where the espresso costs 1€, we here are paying 2€. (In Italy, espresso prices are a totally legitimate benchmark for comparing the cost of living, lol)
But the difficulty will be finding a decent paying job. If you wanna buy in Italy, I reckon you should have some remote job, where you get decently paid. Because the salaries in general are utterly sh!t. Oh, and the taxes are high, everything you earn over 50k will be taxed with 43%!
Obviously you HAVE TO learn italian. I am constantly shocked that even here in South Tyrol, most Italian-speaking Italians (more than half of the people in South Tyrol, including me, speak German btw.) can or will speak only Italian—regardless of whether they are young or old.
Italy is a land of contrasts: A beautiful country that has something to offer for everyone—biking, climbing, skiing, Italian culture, THE FOOD—yet as a place to live, it’s a country that demands a lot from you.
......shhhhhhhh🤫
This. My job doesn’t exist outside of major cities so the debate about cost of living is moot (at least for me). Moved to SF after school 20 years ago so I could surf everyday, then discovered bikes 6 years ago and couldn’t believe my luck. We can ride year round and there are legit trails within 30 minutes in every direction.
Yeah I think you gotta consider that wherever you go there's (usually) gonna be an inverse ratio for cheapness and quality of trails. Finding that sweet spot is difficult and depends on what you value more. That being said, there are loads of spots in the Southeast that are pretty great. If you're ok with ~an hour of travel for your weekend rides, just pick a spot with decent local trails that's within an hour or two of Asheville, Knoxville, etc. Or WV. Lots of good stuff out here and if you hunt around there's reasonable housing.
I'll throw out a sleeper that I was interested in, the area around Harrisonburg VA has a lot within an hour or two. The trails by Reddish Knob are pretty great and you have Snowshoe like 2 hours away. It's not Asheville, and I wouldn't get a place in Hburg itself, but if you don't mind the south, you could do a lot worse.
Kimberley BC. Cheaper than all mountain towns in southern half of BC. Pretty darn good biking. Much from your door. $400k CDN for a house.
Golden BC. Next cheapest. $500k for the cheapest house. World class riding from your door. Quiet on the trails.
Northern BC. Terrace, Williams lake, etc. cheaper than Kimberley. Great riding.
Generally low, but acts of intimidation (which is what open gun-carrying is, btw), and race-related terrorism are highest among white men.
I googled it for you:
"right-wing extremists have perpetrated the majority of terrorist attacks and plots in the United States, accounting for roughly 57% of incidents between 1994 and 2020 according to the Center for Strategic and International Studies (CSIS). In terms of personal demographics (such as race and citizenship), the vast majority of domestic terrorism offenders in the U.S. are U.S.-born citizens and predominantly White. [1, 2, 3]"
But yeah, voter-intimidation, and political disenfranchisement are much more common in the South than elsewhere. But I imagine you're ok with that?
Maybe we can all rent Subarus? That checks-out.
Citing Vox? Let me cite the Daily Wire in response.
"This place is awesome, except the people who made it that way" is an attitude I'll never understand. Generalizing an entire population because of Hollywood stereotypes is breathtaking.
All those towns are sick, but you must love winter as well. arguably better skiing.
Gotta mix it up to keep things fresh
Trail or Warfield BC. Ten minute drive to Rossland, hour drive to Nelson, riding in Castlegar, Salmo, etc.
I do somewhat agree that Western NC is a bit pricey, but compared to a lot of other outdoor destination areas its really not that bad. Sadly, housing cost are what they are these days. The greater Asheville area seems really solid on a number of levels. Economy seems pretty solid, especially compared to other south eastern Appalachia areas, and culturally it has quite a lot to offer. Also you have easy access to more great riding the mid Atlantic and northeast!
My wife and I are looking to move there in the next year or so, looking more towards the Fletcher/Arden area so we can be close to both Asheville and Brevard. I still need to be able to get back to Atlanta pretty regularly, want an easy drive to great trails, and I don't want to leave all the nice parts of living in a city behind. Im exited, I love it up there.
if you want to be able to ride year-round (and sure, it's a bit colder in winter and hotter in summer), western nc is hard to beat. rock creek, windrock both open year-round. kanuga too. i love in charlotte-as some other have said my job is tied to bigger cities-and feel like it's pretty good. glad we got in 20 years ago. wide variety of trail systems in a 30-mile radius. and 2-ish hours to lots of hills. somewhere like morganton seems nice if you don't need the bigger city for a job-close to the best backcountry in the state and a variety of lift/shuttle not too far. or black mountain area. or bryson city. knoxville could also be up there. no one has mentioned roanoke. good riding there. and not far to snowshoe, va dh places.
How does someone even make this work? Are the doors open to other western countries? I'd assume learning the local language would be a must as well. But that area is insanely beautiful!
They are open to anyone, you can search the youtube and you will find more and more people vlogging their italian home renovations. Italy has a lot of hilly rural areas with terrible demographics and very little traditional economic prospect and therefore the real estate price variation is absolutely ridiculous for a developed country (appartments easily cost 10-15x more in the city centers, for example of Milano). Few years ago they were even selling houses for like 1€ trying to attract people to live in the areas with worst demographics (like central Sicily), but there were terms like that you have to move there permanently etc. I mean you will learn the language after some time, I actually follow one of the first moved to Italy vloggers and he said his italian is still super basic as the people working in the services he mostly needs speak enough english.
If you want to come to Italy, you have to know there are parts of it that have now living costs as high as Switzerland.
South Tyrol, my home, is now unaffordable due to the overwhelming tourism. The bloddy dolomites get trampled over and the results are skyrocketing prices. Think of Jackson hole!
But there are plenty of old houses and terrain left behind in other zones. Buying there isn't or shouldn't be a problem. Actually there are zones, where you can buy 1€ houses in Italy as they are confronted with dying towns, especially in the areas where there is no work. In certain areas you will get a contribution from the municipalities if you are willing to establish your residence there!
The problems start after you've bought. Bureaucracy while renovating, missing infrastructure and a very old population especially in remote "bikingfriendly" regions makes it a little hard to get things moving.
However, if you buy in a cheap region, the cost of living is also cheap. There are still places where the espresso costs 1€, we here are paying 2€.
(In Italy, espresso prices are a totally legitimate benchmark for comparing the cost of living, lol)
But the difficulty will be finding a decent paying job. If you wanna buy in Italy, I reckon you should have some remote job, where you get decently paid. Because the salaries in general are utterly sh!t. Oh, and the taxes are high, everything you earn over 50k will be taxed with 43%!
Obviously you HAVE TO learn italian. I am constantly shocked that even here in South Tyrol, most Italian-speaking Italians (more than half of the people in South Tyrol, including me, speak German btw.) can or will speak only Italian—regardless of whether they are young or old.
Italy is a land of contrasts:
A beautiful country that has something to offer for everyone—biking, climbing, skiing, Italian culture, THE FOOD—yet as a place to live, it’s a country that demands a lot from you.
Post a reply to: Whats the cheapest place to live and mountain bike