What's Most Important?? - Bike Design, Skill, or Suspension Setup

Skill no question is very much first but then I think it depends on if you are assuming all the bike designs are fairly recent? If we take this to absurdity then would you rather a rigid front end with 64 deg head angle or suspension and a 71deg front?

Skill, bike, then suspension. 

Good bike design being a combo of geometry and suspension kinematics. Great suspension setup can't solve a crap design a d some whack kinematics. 

Nitpicking over tiny differences in design and suspension are way behind top level skills. 

I used to ride with a guy who raced EWS who had no idea about his suspension, just as long as it had air in the boingers he was fine. He tested tyre pressure with his fingers. Skill > all.

Skill obviously trumps all.  Bike vs. suspension I think depends on how far to the extremes one goes.  These days most bikes have a solid design, so I think most people would be best off getting suspension set up great on whichever bike is available in their size vs. picking the winning-est race bike and just letting the guy in the shop set up the suspension for you.

It’s kind of an interesting question because I think there is feedback between all of them. One of the things you’ll see pro DH guys talk about is how they believe the younger riders are at an advantage having grown up with better bikes. For example not having to unlearn techniques that worked on super short bikes of old, that maybe aren’t optimal today. 

I think that might play into why the level in WC DH seems so high today, and why times seem to be so tight these days. In ye olden times, there were people who were unreasonably good at riding shitty bikes. They just magically figured it out anyway. But that was effectively a filtering mechanism, and maybe excluded many of the more sensitive riders who in a later era would have figured stuff out and been just as competitive.  

Take for example just one aspect that’s changed a lot: wheelbase. The general idea is that a longer vehicle is more stable, and a shorter one is more nimble. Obviously for MTB racing where cornering is super important, and limiting, you want the shorter one, right? Except that the longer wheelbase is more forgiving at the limit, typically less snappy, etc. allowing riders to push up to that limit more consistently. So the longer wheelbase isn’t necessarily faster on its own, but it’s more conducive to more riders reaching those speeds more often, and thus develop their skills without literally crashing out of the sport. As a result the level overall increases. People can further push the boundaries of skill, etc. 

Obviously in the end rider skill is what matters most, otherwise we could just buy a v10 and copy Jackson’s clicks and PSIs and win races but for some reason that hasn’t been working for me… 🤣

Assuming that the suspension setup isn't horrendous, i.e 50% sag and you'd bottom out everywhere, but something kinda standard but not tuned. 

Haa to be bike design second. Mid suspension setup on a proper fitting modern bike would be way faster than elite suspension setup on a bike too small, or crazy steep head angle. 

Obviously skill first

2005 pro on a 2005 bike or a 2025 local crusher on a 2025 bike?

I’d wager the 2025 local crusher would destroy him with the modern bike. 

I think that also reflects that overall “skill” is higher now and local crusher status is really skilled. Mainly because modern bikes allow you to progress fast, especially with speed. 

I voted bike design thinking we are talking large steps not year to year improvements or same era bike comparisons. 

' One of the things you’ll see pro DH guys talk about is how they believe the younger riders are at an advantage having grown up with better bikes."

I certainly think there's something to that. I occasionally reflect that sweajnr (13) has never ridden a mountain bike with a head angle steeper than 65degrees.... 

Just like he's only ever experienced modern carving skis.

You can put the fastest athletes on shopping trolleys and they’ll still beat you down a hill, in part because they can understand and adapt to the other factors (within limits).

Skills are a myth made up by poor people who can't afford a real bike!

Actually I chose Skill, Bike Design, Suspension Setup😅 

A decent bike can have "meh" suspension and work pretty damn well, but a bad bike can't really be saved by suspension

If the option was there I would add tyres so it would be - Skill, Tyres, Bike Design, Suspension Setup

So anyway, who wants to buy some suspension service from me now?

I don’t know.  Didnt peaty do a vid a while back where he rode his old and new v10 and his times weren’t that much better.  I’m quite positive he in his hey day on his old bike would absolutely smoke him on his new bike today.

Neko should let Asa rip one of his old bikes and see if he can keep up on the frameworks.  Can’t think of a better test than that.

Skill is the main thing, as we say in Spain "It's not the arrow, it's the archer"

After that I would put Supension Setup, or just setup in general. I know a few really fast guys with old bikes but very picky with set-up and maintenance of their bikes. Keeping the bike clean and smooth makes it feel like a brand new bike every ride.

Last is bike design, a very good bike can help go faster to slow people but if the skills are not there, it will never match a skilled guy. The latest and best bike can be shit if not setup and maintained properly.

What bike would you put him on?

I reckon a DH bike from 2010-15 would still be better than the Intense with those dogshit Kenda tyres 

I'm obviously no pro rider but just getting my suspension dialed in put me in top 5s on nearly all the local Strava segments I ride, from not even close.

For me, suspension set up was an important missing component and did not require me to ride any more aggressively or take more risks or improve my meager skill set.

Interesting question! Also despite being in the suspension business, going fast: Skill, Bike Design, Suspension. 

However, I think feeling confident/safe on the bike would be the inverse; suspension, design, skill. 

It seems like almost everybody has the same opinions: skill first, then one or the other of suspension setup and bike design. I agree with you: skill, then setup, then design. Of course, that assumes a modern, average bike design - I don't think you could make up for a truly bad frame design, no matter how good your suspension components and adjustments may be. Fortunately, there are few truly bad bikes out there anymore.