The front brake/rear brake thing really comes down to terrain and riding style, but mostly terrain. There are trails where it's easier for me to accidentally make my rear tire skid, and other trails where it's easier for me to accidentally make my front tire skid.
If grip is good on a trail, my weight is typically going to shift forward when I brake, loading the front tire and creating grip there while unloading the rear. On trails like that my front brake is going to do most of the work slowing me down, which is what we would typically expect from a basic free body diagram in physics or engineering 101. Because my rear tire is unloaded, there's no grip there and I can skid the back of the bike all over the place, left to right, while my front tire is doing all the real work to slow me down. By the way, all that rear tire skidding doesn't feel sketchy, if anything it feels awesome. For example, jamming hard on the brakes in braking bumps into a tight turn. Tons of traction, front tire gripping.
But if grip is bad, hitting my brakes might not generate enough deceleration to significantly shift my weight onto the front tire, which means that my rear tire is going to be the grippy one and it's my front tire that's going to slip. But front tire skids on steep and gnarly trails with low grip don't feel sick and awesome and cool, they're terrifying, so I end up doing most of my braking with my rear brake on steep and gnarly trails. Same for lower angle trails with low grip (i.e. most of southern California for 364 days a year) where I'm nursing my front brake the whole time and saving it for the bits where there's traction.
So yes, in theory we would expect front brakes "to do most of the work," and that's what actually happens under "normal circumstances." But in practice, less-than-normal circumstances are actually pretty common in mountain biking, leading to a less-than-trustworthy relationship with the front brake. This is why I've really fallen in love with Troy Brosnan's "bigger rotor in the back" setup. It makes both of my brakes feel more similar in practice, instead of my rear brake feeling like a brake and my front brake feeling like an instant-death skid trigger.
Honestly, every once in a while I like to practice using only one brake to control my speed for a descent, it really makes you approach trails differently and helps you to learn how to adjust your braking in the fly. Just do it on trails you know haha. I've been thinking about running 220 rotors front and rear on the DH bike, Shimano mt520s with trickstuff pads and 203 rotors has not been strong enough
^100%. The trail I built last winter is designed to be heavy on the front, and skid-sliding the rear around on every tight corner. It rides best when it's dusty (which luckily is most of the time). But a lot of our other trails grip sucks so you can only brake hard in quick blips between corners, and the rest of the time you have to bias rear and keep the front moving.
Did a ride with organic front after work and it was dead silent. Now time will tell whether it stays that way, and if the sintered and pair rotor that I put on the rear of the other bike stay quiet. Power was a bit less but I'm sure I will retrain my brain for bite points quickly. Also, thinking back, I experienced something similar a few years ago when I tried to run an HS2 220 rotor front on my ebike (at that time with Dominions & their sintered pads). The sintered + 220 front was constantly noisy. Dropping that down to a 200 made that better, and I may have also ended up going to organic front.
The front brake/rear brake thing really comes down to terrain and riding style, but mostly terrain. There are trails where it's easier for me to accidentally...
The front brake/rear brake thing really comes down to terrain and riding style, but mostly terrain. There are trails where it's easier for me to accidentally make my rear tire skid, and other trails where it's easier for me to accidentally make my front tire skid.
If grip is good on a trail, my weight is typically going to shift forward when I brake, loading the front tire and creating grip there while unloading the rear. On trails like that my front brake is going to do most of the work slowing me down, which is what we would typically expect from a basic free body diagram in physics or engineering 101. Because my rear tire is unloaded, there's no grip there and I can skid the back of the bike all over the place, left to right, while my front tire is doing all the real work to slow me down. By the way, all that rear tire skidding doesn't feel sketchy, if anything it feels awesome. For example, jamming hard on the brakes in braking bumps into a tight turn. Tons of traction, front tire gripping.
But if grip is bad, hitting my brakes might not generate enough deceleration to significantly shift my weight onto the front tire, which means that my rear tire is going to be the grippy one and it's my front tire that's going to slip. But front tire skids on steep and gnarly trails with low grip don't feel sick and awesome and cool, they're terrifying, so I end up doing most of my braking with my rear brake on steep and gnarly trails. Same for lower angle trails with low grip (i.e. most of southern California for 364 days a year) where I'm nursing my front brake the whole time and saving it for the bits where there's traction.
So yes, in theory we would expect front brakes "to do most of the work," and that's what actually happens under "normal circumstances." But in practice, less-than-normal circumstances are actually pretty common in mountain biking, leading to a less-than-trustworthy relationship with the front brake. This is why I've really fallen in love with Troy Brosnan's "bigger rotor in the back" setup. It makes both of my brakes feel more similar in practice, instead of my rear brake feeling like a brake and my front brake feeling like an instant-death skid trigger.
"It makes both of my brakes feel more similar in practice, instead of my rear brake feeling like a brake and my front brake feeling like an instant-death skid trigger."
Getting brakes that feel good at the lever also solves this problem. Ie having a super light dead stroke. This and arm pump is why dominions are on all of my bikes.
You could explain a hotter rear brake with excessive dragging which isnt too unlikely but the weight distribution explanation is forgetting about Newton's first law of...
You could explain a hotter rear brake with excessive dragging which isnt too unlikely but the weight distribution explanation is forgetting about Newton's first law of motion
Anyways, obviously this is completely anecdotal but I've had a few experiences now with TRP rotors (and a couple other heavy 2.3mm rotors, to be fair to TRP) not playing nicely with metal pads and glazing in the front. Each time fixed by using lighter 2mm rotors after very carefully testing for contamination
My thinking was the less intense / hard braking on the front (more feathering) coupled with greater heat absorption of the metal pads & thicker rotor...
My thinking was the less intense / hard braking on the front (more feathering) coupled with greater heat absorption of the metal pads & thicker rotor would mess with the compound transfer to the rotor and slow down the natural burn off of the surface of the pads. Then once it glazes it would just make the problem worse. I did swap rotors & pads between the front wheel of ebike & rear of pedal bike last night and will give it a shot. The sintered pads I pulled off the ebike front were indeed very glossy - gave them a quick sanding pass to take the shine off.
I've previously tried putting on a fresh front rotor & (sintered) pads on the ebike and the noise came back after a few rides. Hence my thinking it's compound related.
My uneducated 2 cents, having run TRP brakes for the past couple of years (Slate T4, Trail Evo, DHR Evo) and multiple different pads/rotor combinations. As far as I understood, the RS05E race rotors were designed to work best with the resin pads (TRP claims that is the preferred combo of UCI DH racers). I have run 3 different sintered pads (TRP, Shimano and Loam Goat) with TRP (RS01E, RC01E and RC04E), Shimano (SLX and XT) and SRAM (centerline) rotors, none of them ever played nice together. The resin pads (blue) were a bit better but they were the most finicky bedding in, the semi metallic (red) were by far the best of the TRP pads. Current pad/rotor combo: MTX Red/Gold pads with RC04E 203mm Rotors. This has been the most consistent setup I have used, the mtx pads bed in so effortlessly and sync up with the consistent feel that TRP brakes are known for. I have only ever had one instance of possible contamination with a DHR Evo (bike sat for 4-5 months) where during a ride it had no power and howling. To salvage the ride, I pulled the pads out, rubbed them in the dirt. couple of soft taps on a rock and threw them back in. They came back to life about 75% of their normal power and once home, I cleaned the rotor/pads up and they have been trouble free up until the pads needed to be changed out.
Does anyone have any time on the 9200 two piston setup? I've had a few customers ask about them but we've only seen 9220s so far. Weight and price looks pretty decent for people in that market, but they have to be on par/better than Hope XCRs for that recommendation.
I haven't read through all the pages to see- but wanted to come in and ask if anyone else has dealt with double piston seals leaking on brand new unused GR4s? Wife got a new set and they showed up wet in the packaging. Ambitious to get them on, we cleaned them up and got them bled. The rear kept producing air. Finally got it to have a more crisp bite after a crap ton of tries and as soon as I went to clean up, it went to mush again. It's holding pressure but not staying crisp. The pads have fluid on them every time they are pulled out. Two sets of pads ruined. The pair that came in and wet already and the set I had to use to bleed with no bleed block. Two pistons on one side of one caliper are visually leaking. It has produced a drip only once so far but shows seeping fluid every lever pull all the way around both piston. Releasing the brakes, the fluid goes back in mostly. Pushing the pistons back in produces the most fluid.
I haven't read through all the pages to see- but wanted to come in and ask if anyone else has dealt with double piston seals leaking...
I haven't read through all the pages to see- but wanted to come in and ask if anyone else has dealt with double piston seals leaking on brand new unused GR4s? Wife got a new set and they showed up wet in the packaging. Ambitious to get them on, we cleaned them up and got them bled. The rear kept producing air. Finally got it to have a more crisp bite after a crap ton of tries and as soon as I went to clean up, it went to mush again. It's holding pressure but not staying crisp. The pads have fluid on them every time they are pulled out. Two sets of pads ruined. The pair that came in and wet already and the set I had to use to bleed with no bleed block. Two pistons on one side of one caliper are visually leaking. It has produced a drip only once so far but shows seeping fluid every lever pull all the way around both piston. Releasing the brakes, the fluid goes back in mostly. Pushing the pistons back in produces the most fluid.
IMO sounds like maybe seals were damaged somehow on assembly you should definitely warranty
Had a chat with the French distributor of Brembo, they're receiving them "next week" (don't know if that's the week that starts next monday or the one after). Still 900-ish€, only in red, doesn't include rotors or adapters. He got 150 pairs ordered, he had 100-120 pairs pre-ordered back in july but now, a lot of people have just canceled and moved to other brands because of the complete lack of info coming from Brembo ...
I'll try to get my hands on a pair to try out but he didn't seem to have a "press" set of brakes unfortunately ...
Had a chat with the French distributor of Brembo, they're receiving them "next week" (don't know if that's the week that starts next monday or the...
Had a chat with the French distributor of Brembo, they're receiving them "next week" (don't know if that's the week that starts next monday or the one after). Still 900-ish€, only in red, doesn't include rotors or adapters. He got 150 pairs ordered, he had 100-120 pairs pre-ordered back in july but now, a lot of people have just canceled and moved to other brands because of the complete lack of info coming from Brembo ...
I'll try to get my hands on a pair to try out but he didn't seem to have a "press" set of brakes unfortunately ...
Never let making brakes get in the way of a nice Chianti
Had a chat with the French distributor of Brembo, they're receiving them "next week" (don't know if that's the week that starts next monday or the...
Had a chat with the French distributor of Brembo, they're receiving them "next week" (don't know if that's the week that starts next monday or the one after). Still 900-ish€, only in red, doesn't include rotors or adapters. He got 150 pairs ordered, he had 100-120 pairs pre-ordered back in july but now, a lot of people have just canceled and moved to other brands because of the complete lack of info coming from Brembo ...
I'll try to get my hands on a pair to try out but he didn't seem to have a "press" set of brakes unfortunately ...
Sorry for the hate speech but I feel like the Brembos will be a huge flop. They've hyped themselves up for way over a year which has lead to the results you mentioned. Omakacycle has a set of GR-PRO's and the quality seems to be on par with Hayes (AKA disgusting), especially taking the price into account (paint runs, sloppy bar clamps and poor overall finish).
Considering how many can't setup Mavens properly, I think there will be a similar problem with the GR-PRO's, especially when you need to buy the bleed kit separately and I'm 101 % sure there will be people who will try to bleed them with another kit, which won't have the correct fitting for the caliper.
For me it seems like the bicycle division for Brembo is just a forced side hustle. The only "innovative" thing they've got going for them is the 3-way lever adjustability. I just can't fathom how anyone could justify buying a near 1000€ brakeset that has a non-bearing lever pivot, powdercoated finish, 2-piece caliper, single piece rotors, another unnecessary new brake pad standard, comes completely dry+needs a proprietary bleed kit+no bleed and/or service instructions anywhere online, and otherwise is quite run of the mill.
Also, why must they try to be different and make the brake rotor spokes backwards compared to literally every other mtb brake rotor ever? It just looks plain wrong and ugly.
The front brake/rear brake thing really comes down to terrain and riding style, but mostly terrain. There are trails where it's easier for me to accidentally make my rear tire skid, and other trails where it's easier for me to accidentally make my front tire skid.
If grip is good on a trail, my weight is typically going to shift forward when I brake, loading the front tire and creating grip there while unloading the rear. On trails like that my front brake is going to do most of the work slowing me down, which is what we would typically expect from a basic free body diagram in physics or engineering 101. Because my rear tire is unloaded, there's no grip there and I can skid the back of the bike all over the place, left to right, while my front tire is doing all the real work to slow me down. By the way, all that rear tire skidding doesn't feel sketchy, if anything it feels awesome. For example, jamming hard on the brakes in braking bumps into a tight turn. Tons of traction, front tire gripping.
But if grip is bad, hitting my brakes might not generate enough deceleration to significantly shift my weight onto the front tire, which means that my rear tire is going to be the grippy one and it's my front tire that's going to slip. But front tire skids on steep and gnarly trails with low grip don't feel sick and awesome and cool, they're terrifying, so I end up doing most of my braking with my rear brake on steep and gnarly trails. Same for lower angle trails with low grip (i.e. most of southern California for 364 days a year) where I'm nursing my front brake the whole time and saving it for the bits where there's traction.
So yes, in theory we would expect front brakes "to do most of the work," and that's what actually happens under "normal circumstances." But in practice, less-than-normal circumstances are actually pretty common in mountain biking, leading to a less-than-trustworthy relationship with the front brake. This is why I've really fallen in love with Troy Brosnan's "bigger rotor in the back" setup. It makes both of my brakes feel more similar in practice, instead of my rear brake feeling like a brake and my front brake feeling like an instant-death skid trigger.
Honestly, every once in a while I like to practice using only one brake to control my speed for a descent, it really makes you approach trails differently and helps you to learn how to adjust your braking in the fly. Just do it on trails you know haha. I've been thinking about running 220 rotors front and rear on the DH bike, Shimano mt520s with trickstuff pads and 203 rotors has not been strong enough
^100%. The trail I built last winter is designed to be heavy on the front, and skid-sliding the rear around on every tight corner. It rides best when it's dusty (which luckily is most of the time). But a lot of our other trails grip sucks so you can only brake hard in quick blips between corners, and the rest of the time you have to bias rear and keep the front moving.
Did a ride with organic front after work and it was dead silent. Now time will tell whether it stays that way, and if the sintered and pair rotor that I put on the rear of the other bike stay quiet. Power was a bit less but I'm sure I will retrain my brain for bite points quickly. Also, thinking back, I experienced something similar a few years ago when I tried to run an HS2 220 rotor front on my ebike (at that time with Dominions & their sintered pads). The sintered + 220 front was constantly noisy. Dropping that down to a 200 made that better, and I may have also ended up going to organic front.
Alright fine. I will hyphenate anal-retentive.
"It makes both of my brakes feel more similar in practice, instead of my rear brake feeling like a brake and my front brake feeling like an instant-death skid trigger."
Getting brakes that feel good at the lever also solves this problem. Ie having a super light dead stroke. This and arm pump is why dominions are on all of my bikes.
My uneducated 2 cents, having run TRP brakes for the past couple of years (Slate T4, Trail Evo, DHR Evo) and multiple different pads/rotor combinations. As far as I understood, the RS05E race rotors were designed to work best with the resin pads (TRP claims that is the preferred combo of UCI DH racers). I have run 3 different sintered pads (TRP, Shimano and Loam Goat) with TRP (RS01E, RC01E and RC04E), Shimano (SLX and XT) and SRAM (centerline) rotors, none of them ever played nice together. The resin pads (blue) were a bit better but they were the most finicky bedding in, the semi metallic (red) were by far the best of the TRP pads.
Current pad/rotor combo: MTX Red/Gold pads with RC04E 203mm Rotors.
This has been the most consistent setup I have used, the mtx pads bed in so effortlessly and sync up with the consistent feel that TRP brakes are known for. I have only ever had one instance of possible contamination with a DHR Evo (bike sat for 4-5 months) where during a ride it had no power and howling. To salvage the ride, I pulled the pads out, rubbed them in the dirt. couple of soft taps on a rock and threw them back in. They came back to life about 75% of their normal power and once home, I cleaned the rotor/pads up and they have been trouble free up until the pads needed to be changed out.
I’m running Shimano metallic pads in my TRP Evo Pros with RS05E 203 mm rotors. They are silent and feel great.
Galfer purple.
Galfer Greens on SwissStop Catalyst Pros. Feel gorgeous. Tech 4 E4.
I have bigger hills than you my Deer.
Shimano XTR 9220, MTX Gold pads, Shimano 2.2 rotors (220mm).
Does anyone have any time on the 9200 two piston setup? I've had a few customers ask about them but we've only seen 9220s so far. Weight and price looks pretty decent for people in that market, but they have to be on par/better than Hope XCRs for that recommendation.
Everyone has bigger hills than me. :c
😂🍻
I haven't read through all the pages to see- but wanted to come in and ask if anyone else has dealt with double piston seals leaking on brand new unused GR4s? Wife got a new set and they showed up wet in the packaging. Ambitious to get them on, we cleaned them up and got them bled. The rear kept producing air. Finally got it to have a more crisp bite after a crap ton of tries and as soon as I went to clean up, it went to mush again. It's holding pressure but not staying crisp. The pads have fluid on them every time they are pulled out. Two sets of pads ruined. The pair that came in and wet already and the set I had to use to bleed with no bleed block. Two pistons on one side of one caliper are visually leaking. It has produced a drip only once so far but shows seeping fluid every lever pull all the way around both piston. Releasing the brakes, the fluid goes back in mostly. Pushing the pistons back in produces the most fluid.
IMO sounds like maybe seals were damaged somehow on assembly you should definitely warranty
Had a chat with the French distributor of Brembo, they're receiving them "next week" (don't know if that's the week that starts next monday or the one after). Still 900-ish€, only in red, doesn't include rotors or adapters. He got 150 pairs ordered, he had 100-120 pairs pre-ordered back in july but now, a lot of people have just canceled and moved to other brands because of the complete lack of info coming from Brembo ...
I'll try to get my hands on a pair to try out but he didn't seem to have a "press" set of brakes unfortunately ...
Never let making brakes get in the way of a nice Chianti
Sorry for the hate speech but I feel like the Brembos will be a huge flop. They've hyped themselves up for way over a year which has lead to the results you mentioned. Omakacycle has a set of GR-PRO's and the quality seems to be on par with Hayes (AKA disgusting), especially taking the price into account (paint runs, sloppy bar clamps and poor overall finish).
Considering how many can't setup Mavens properly, I think there will be a similar problem with the GR-PRO's, especially when you need to buy the bleed kit separately and I'm 101 % sure there will be people who will try to bleed them with another kit, which won't have the correct fitting for the caliper.
For me it seems like the bicycle division for Brembo is just a forced side hustle. The only "innovative" thing they've got going for them is the 3-way lever adjustability. I just can't fathom how anyone could justify buying a near 1000€ brakeset that has a non-bearing lever pivot, powdercoated finish, 2-piece caliper, single piece rotors, another unnecessary new brake pad standard, comes completely dry+needs a proprietary bleed kit+no bleed and/or service instructions anywhere online, and otherwise is quite run of the mill.
Also, why must they try to be different and make the brake rotor spokes backwards compared to literally every other mtb brake rotor ever? It just looks plain wrong and ugly.
Post a reply to: Nerding out on Brakes shall we? Not another tech deraliment