Thank you for the response. I bought the bike back in January so it’s not old but it’s definitely broken in. I agree max travel is not the most important thing, but in the past I’ve always been able to set my front and rear suspension up to achieve max travel on the biggest jump landings.
I need help with my ‘26 Fox 34SL Factory. The fork came on my Epic Evo and has 130mm of travel. I have only been able...
I need help with my ‘26 Fox 34SL Factory. The fork came on my Epic Evo and has 130mm of travel. I have only been able to get 120mm out of it. I’ve tried all the typical things (removed the volume spacer, opened up both high and low speed compression dampening, reduced air pressure) and nothing seams to work. I thought maybe the fork was mistakenly shipped with 120mm travel but it will go to 130mm with the air out. What am I missing?
Also respectfully, it's called damping, not dampening.
I need help with my ‘26 Fox 34SL Factory. The fork came on my Epic Evo and has 130mm of travel. I have only been able...
I need help with my ‘26 Fox 34SL Factory. The fork came on my Epic Evo and has 130mm of travel. I have only been able to get 120mm out of it. I’ve tried all the typical things (removed the volume spacer, opened up both high and low speed compression dampening, reduced air pressure) and nothing seams to work. I thought maybe the fork was mistakenly shipped with 120mm travel but it will go to 130mm with the air out. What am I missing?
Thank you for the response. I bought the bike back in January so it’s not old but it’s definitely broken in. I agree max travel is...
Thank you for the response. I bought the bike back in January so it’s not old but it’s definitely broken in. I agree max travel is not the most important thing, but in the past I’ve always been able to set my front and rear suspension up to achieve max travel on the biggest jump landings.
I’ve always set my stuff up first and foremost by feel. If I’ve got some adjustment flexibility in the setup window I might try to target about 90% travel for my biggest intentional hits. Having a buffer is nice and in many case trying to chase that last 10% can sometimes cause setup compromises depending on the suspension. If Im under 90% and like how it rides I just don’t worry about it.
Thank you for the response. I bought the bike back in January so it’s not old but it’s definitely broken in. I agree max travel is...
Thank you for the response. I bought the bike back in January so it’s not old but it’s definitely broken in. I agree max travel is not the most important thing, but in the past I’ve always been able to set my front and rear suspension up to achieve max travel on the biggest jump landings.
Compared to 5-10 years ago, forks have evolved (or should that be EVOLved....) to have larger negative springs and and overall more progressive spring curve, which is much better in performance but does make them harder to get every last mm of stroke - its very common for the average rider to have 0 volume spacers in their forks vs 2 or 3 not too long ago. Especially if your fork is set to its longest travel option since they have the largest compression ratio in both the air spring and lowers.
On top of that, the extra negative volume is normally robbed from the lowers which adds even more progression to the system. IMO these are more than acceptable trade offs as air springs are so much better than they used to be - I would be more concerned if you were always using all the travel, or if there was 30-40mm left over. But 10 is nothing to stress about, and I would probably even recommend that over using all of it - so if something goes wrong you know there is some in reserve!
I appreciate all the feedback. My point of reference to compare the ‘26 34 is the ‘16 34 on my Yeti. I guess the air springs have just gotten more progressive in the last 10 yrs. The reason I’m harping on it is that I’ve developed numbness in my hands on long rides which I’ve never had before. I know the numbness is likely due to cockpit setup but I figured I’d ask the Vital brain trust about the fork just in case. 👍🏻
I appreciate all the feedback. My point of reference to compare the ‘26 34 is the ‘16 34 on my Yeti. I guess the air springs...
I appreciate all the feedback. My point of reference to compare the ‘26 34 is the ‘16 34 on my Yeti. I guess the air springs have just gotten more progressive in the last 10 yrs. The reason I’m harping on it is that I’ve developed numbness in my hands on long rides which I’ve never had before. I know the numbness is likely due to cockpit setup but I figured I’d ask the Vital brain trust about the fork just in case. 👍🏻
Ahh yup...OK It could be the fork but it is unlikely to be directly caused by too much progression, its normally tyres (width/casing/pressure), friction or initial spring rate (in that order). I would suggest zero spacers (which I think you already have) and then probably increase the pressure until it gets worse (in a different way) or you are around the recommended pressure (or it gets better!).
Try lower tyre pressure if you havent already, then bracket the damper settings - it would be handy to drop the lowers and grease the dust wipers if they haven't been already as well. Whatever you do, and before someone else suggests it do NOT wipe the grease out of the air spring - that will only make things worse.
I appreciate all the feedback. My point of reference to compare the ‘26 34 is the ‘16 34 on my Yeti. I guess the air springs...
I appreciate all the feedback. My point of reference to compare the ‘26 34 is the ‘16 34 on my Yeti. I guess the air springs have just gotten more progressive in the last 10 yrs. The reason I’m harping on it is that I’ve developed numbness in my hands on long rides which I’ve never had before. I know the numbness is likely due to cockpit setup but I figured I’d ask the Vital brain trust about the fork just in case. 👍🏻
Ahh yup...OK It could be the fork but it is unlikely to be directly caused by too much progression, its normally tyres (width/casing/pressure), friction or initial...
Ahh yup...OK It could be the fork but it is unlikely to be directly caused by too much progression, its normally tyres (width/casing/pressure), friction or initial spring rate (in that order). I would suggest zero spacers (which I think you already have) and then probably increase the pressure until it gets worse (in a different way) or you are around the recommended pressure (or it gets better!).
Try lower tyre pressure if you havent already, then bracket the damper settings - it would be handy to drop the lowers and grease the dust wipers if they haven't been already as well. Whatever you do, and before someone else suggests it do NOT wipe the grease out of the air spring - that will only make things worse.
Great advice. Yes, tires could be a contributor. I am not a fan of the Specialized Purgatory tire up front. Grip is good but the casing seems very stiff even with the tire pressure at 20psi. I’m going to mount a Maxxis Rekon to see if that helps. Thanks again!
What‘s the verdict on the new Fox 38? I have one in order with a new bike.
So, I think I finally have enough time on it to develop an opinion.
Is it a better fork than the 38 gripx2? Yes.
Does it have a much narrower sweet spot than the old fork. Very much so.
So, I've kinda thrown everything at the fork in trying to make it feel good. Tokens in, tokens out, less sag, more sag, tons of HSC, no HSC, so on and so forth. If you did this with the old fork you could still get something that was more or less rideable. Not so with this fork. I think, in large part to the different ratios between the positive and negative air chambers this fork is incredibly sag sensitive. If you run a ton of sag the fork just has no suppleness, and if you try to run it with very little sag it just ends up way too progressive. The rebound on the new gripx2 damper suffers from the same problem, a fairly narrow sweet spot between HSR and LSR. I find in both of my forks running the new gripx2 damper that I'm running 2 clicks of LSR for ever click of HSR. The fork also seems very sensitive to service intervals due to losing 10 cc of 20 wt in the air chamber.
With that out of the way, I can now say the following:
The fork is incredible. Easily the best iteration of a single crown fork I've ridden (for reference my previous benchmark was the glidecore 36). As a heavier rider the lack of binding in the air spring is very noticeable, and between the damper improvements and the spring improvements the fork feels more responsive and controlled. It may seem odd but you can tell that the resistance in the fork to movement is coming from the spring and the damper and NOT the interplay between static friction moving to dynamic friction. Damper wise, everything feels useable and actually can provide the damping characteristics I want.
That being said, due to its narrower sweet spot its even more of a pain to setup. My recommendation is do not go above 20% sag (probably use one less token than what comes in your fork), 2:1 LSR to HSR, minimal LSC and actually don't be afraid of the HSC dial (its quite good).
I just had one, very brief ride on the Simons.Lab Zeta in my Intend Edge - thought I’d do a VERY brief ride report.
I’m 170 lbs, on a Spec Stumpy 15 with CC link 27.5”. I had to up my air pressure quite a bit given the damper leg is no longer sealed. My recommended settings were HSC -4, LSC -4, HSR -4, LSR -9. My Edge steerer is unfortunately really short, so when I removed my Shockcraft Mezzer Stage 2 (which I LOVE), I had to lower my stem 12 mm, so that colors my review a bit.
I have a relatively weak upper body, but ride hard, and really appreciate a well tuned damper.
All that said, I’m impressed! It’s so great having HBO in this fork. It’s dead silent (I like damper whoosh!!), and uber smooth. I need more time to dial in my settings (rebound was pretty fast), but I did fully close LSC & HSC and it’s completely rideable if not comfortable.
Definitely need more time but so far so good. The damper itself is just beautiful. I’ll report back once I’ve had more time on it.
I just had one, very brief ride on the Simons.Lab Zeta in my Intend Edge - thought I’d do a VERY brief ride report.I’m 170 lbs...
I just had one, very brief ride on the Simons.Lab Zeta in my Intend Edge - thought I’d do a VERY brief ride report.
I’m 170 lbs, on a Spec Stumpy 15 with CC link 27.5”. I had to up my air pressure quite a bit given the damper leg is no longer sealed. My recommended settings were HSC -4, LSC -4, HSR -4, LSR -9. My Edge steerer is unfortunately really short, so when I removed my Shockcraft Mezzer Stage 2 (which I LOVE), I had to lower my stem 12 mm, so that colors my review a bit.
I have a relatively weak upper body, but ride hard, and really appreciate a well tuned damper.
All that said, I’m impressed! It’s so great having HBO in this fork. It’s dead silent (I like damper whoosh!!), and uber smooth. I need more time to dial in my settings (rebound was pretty fast), but I did fully close LSC & HSC and it’s completely rideable if not comfortable.
Definitely need more time but so far so good. The damper itself is just beautiful. I’ll report back once I’ve had more time on it.
Cool! Report back after a few rides,
If there is something that I’d never think about on the Edge is HBO, I’d love a HSC knob but the HBO is probably something I’d never care about as I don’t get to the bottom out even if I try to with a setting that works beautifully for everything else,
I need help with my ‘26 Fox 34SL Factory. The fork came on my Epic Evo and has 130mm of travel. I have only been able...
I need help with my ‘26 Fox 34SL Factory. The fork came on my Epic Evo and has 130mm of travel. I have only been able to get 120mm out of it. I’ve tried all the typical things (removed the volume spacer, opened up both high and low speed compression dampening, reduced air pressure) and nothing seams to work. I thought maybe the fork was mistakenly shipped with 120mm travel but it will go to 130mm with the air out. What am I missing?
How's the balance on the bike? If the back end is comparatively soft it can end up rocking your weight back and unloading the fork. Which...
How's the balance on the bike? If the back end is comparatively soft it can end up rocking your weight back and unloading the fork. Which makes it difficult to get full travel.
The carpark bounce tests are very good at exposing if one end is soggy or too firm. Wind off your damping so it has less effect first.
Yes, the bike is balanced. I’ve been a hardcore mountain biker and motocrosser for years and I’m good at setting up suspension. The fork feels ok generally but it’s the first fork I’ve ever had that’s never bottomed out. That combined with the hand numbness has just gotten in my head a bit.
I need help with my ‘26 Fox 34SL Factory. The fork came on my Epic Evo and has 130mm of travel. I have only been able...
I need help with my ‘26 Fox 34SL Factory. The fork came on my Epic Evo and has 130mm of travel. I have only been able to get 120mm out of it. I’ve tried all the typical things (removed the volume spacer, opened up both high and low speed compression dampening, reduced air pressure) and nothing seams to work. I thought maybe the fork was mistakenly shipped with 120mm travel but it will go to 130mm with the air out. What am I missing?
Surprised nobody mentioned it already since it's a fox fork but have you opened up your air spring to see if there is not a 1inch tick glob of grease on top of the air spring top cap ?
Edit: my bad, missed the suspensionlabnz post that mentioned excess grease in the air spring
I need help with my ‘26 Fox 34SL Factory. The fork came on my Epic Evo and has 130mm of travel. I have only been able...
I need help with my ‘26 Fox 34SL Factory. The fork came on my Epic Evo and has 130mm of travel. I have only been able to get 120mm out of it. I’ve tried all the typical things (removed the volume spacer, opened up both high and low speed compression dampening, reduced air pressure) and nothing seams to work. I thought maybe the fork was mistakenly shipped with 120mm travel but it will go to 130mm with the air out. What am I missing?
Surprised nobody mentioned it already since it's a fox fork but have you opened up your air spring to see if there is not a 1inch...
Surprised nobody mentioned it already since it's a fox fork but have you opened up your air spring to see if there is not a 1inch tick glob of grease on top of the air spring top cap ?
Edit: my bad, missed the suspensionlabnz post that mentioned excess grease in the air spring
As a matter of fact, @TheSuspensionLabNZ mentioned that a few posts ago and had some strongly worded thoughts on the matter:
"Whatever you do, and before someone else suggests it do NOT wipe the grease out of the air spring - that will only make things worse." TLDR this customer's fork is too progressive already, and wiping out the grease will make the negative air spring volume even bigger and make the fork more progressive.
I need help with my ‘26 Fox 34SL Factory. The fork came on my Epic Evo and has 130mm of travel. I have only been able...
I need help with my ‘26 Fox 34SL Factory. The fork came on my Epic Evo and has 130mm of travel. I have only been able to get 120mm out of it. I’ve tried all the typical things (removed the volume spacer, opened up both high and low speed compression dampening, reduced air pressure) and nothing seams to work. I thought maybe the fork was mistakenly shipped with 120mm travel but it will go to 130mm with the air out. What am I missing?
Surprised nobody mentioned it already since it's a fox fork but have you opened up your air spring to see if there is not a 1inch...
Surprised nobody mentioned it already since it's a fox fork but have you opened up your air spring to see if there is not a 1inch tick glob of grease on top of the air spring top cap ?
Edit: my bad, missed the suspensionlabnz post that mentioned excess grease in the air spring
As a matter of fact, @TheSuspensionLabNZ mentioned that a few posts ago and had some strongly worded thoughts on the matter:"Whatever you do, and before someone...
As a matter of fact, @TheSuspensionLabNZ mentioned that a few posts ago and had some strongly worded thoughts on the matter:
"Whatever you do, and before someone else suggests it do NOT wipe the grease out of the air spring - that will only make things worse." TLDR this customer's fork is too progressive already, and wiping out the grease will make the negative air spring volume even bigger and make the fork more progressive.
Isn’t a bigger negative what makes forks more linear?
I need help with my ‘26 Fox 34SL Factory. The fork came on my Epic Evo and has 130mm of travel. I have only been able...
I need help with my ‘26 Fox 34SL Factory. The fork came on my Epic Evo and has 130mm of travel. I have only been able to get 120mm out of it. I’ve tried all the typical things (removed the volume spacer, opened up both high and low speed compression dampening, reduced air pressure) and nothing seams to work. I thought maybe the fork was mistakenly shipped with 120mm travel but it will go to 130mm with the air out. What am I missing?
Surprised nobody mentioned it already since it's a fox fork but have you opened up your air spring to see if there is not a 1inch...
Surprised nobody mentioned it already since it's a fox fork but have you opened up your air spring to see if there is not a 1inch tick glob of grease on top of the air spring top cap ?
Edit: my bad, missed the suspensionlabnz post that mentioned excess grease in the air spring
As a matter of fact, @TheSuspensionLabNZ mentioned that a few posts ago and had some strongly worded thoughts on the matter:"Whatever you do, and before someone...
As a matter of fact, @TheSuspensionLabNZ mentioned that a few posts ago and had some strongly worded thoughts on the matter:
"Whatever you do, and before someone else suggests it do NOT wipe the grease out of the air spring - that will only make things worse." TLDR this customer's fork is too progressive already, and wiping out the grease will make the negative air spring volume even bigger and make the fork more progressive.
Even though that looks like a huge amount of grease (and more than needed), it makes a negligible difference to negative volume in a modern fork so that example isn't an issue at all. The problem more comes from people wiping out too much grease and the fork quickly runs dry and feels horrific. I've been meaning to post a thermal image video of a recent lyrik that was running like this and you could see the stanchion warming up while cycling the air shaft by hand!
Air springs are more forgiving with the amount of grease needed since the NA2/EVOL air springs or RS debonair so the last 8-9 years most have had a perfectly fine amount of grease. For 2026 Fox seems to be using even less though - less than I would use but probably just enough that its still fine.
34's can ingest bath oil sometimes - due to less seals, but it normally takes a long time or if you do several lower leg services without doing the air spring
Surprised nobody mentioned it already since it's a fox fork but have you opened up your air spring to see if there is not a 1inch...
Surprised nobody mentioned it already since it's a fox fork but have you opened up your air spring to see if there is not a 1inch tick glob of grease on top of the air spring top cap ?
Edit: my bad, missed the suspensionlabnz post that mentioned excess grease in the air spring
As a matter of fact, @TheSuspensionLabNZ mentioned that a few posts ago and had some strongly worded thoughts on the matter:"Whatever you do, and before someone...
As a matter of fact, @TheSuspensionLabNZ mentioned that a few posts ago and had some strongly worded thoughts on the matter:
"Whatever you do, and before someone else suggests it do NOT wipe the grease out of the air spring - that will only make things worse." TLDR this customer's fork is too progressive already, and wiping out the grease will make the negative air spring volume even bigger and make the fork more progressive.
Isn’t a bigger negative what makes forks more linear?
Yes and no. A proportionately larger negative chamber makes the initial part of the spring curve more linear (but really just less digressive, still definitely NOT linear), and it makes the last segment of travel more progressive.
Most of the direct effects of the bigger negative chamber happen in the first 25-ish percent of travel, which you can see in the graph. The increased ramp up in the last 75-ish percent of travel is due to the fact that you have to run more pressure with a larger negative spring to get the same sag point, which inherently requires more force to fully compress.
How's the balance on the bike? If the back end is comparatively soft it can end up rocking your weight back and unloading the fork. Which...
How's the balance on the bike? If the back end is comparatively soft it can end up rocking your weight back and unloading the fork. Which makes it difficult to get full travel.
The carpark bounce tests are very good at exposing if one end is soggy or too firm. Wind off your damping so it has less effect first.
Yes, the bike is balanced. I’ve been a hardcore mountain biker and motocrosser for years and I’m good at setting up suspension. The fork feels ok...
Yes, the bike is balanced. I’ve been a hardcore mountain biker and motocrosser for years and I’m good at setting up suspension. The fork feels ok generally but it’s the first fork I’ve ever had that’s never bottomed out. That combined with the hand numbness has just gotten in my head a bit.
The GRIPSL damper isn't one I've been into yet so I can't confirm if it is or isn't the problem. The GRIPX2 released at the same...
The GRIPSL damper isn't one I've been into yet so I can't confirm if it is or isn't the problem. The GRIPX2 released at the same time went firm and harsh, the GRIPX went with really soft compression and slow rebound. So it could be anything really.
Dear Dougal,
I know your favorite past time is to shit on the hard engineering work of people and then yell at them when they try to engage you in good faith arguments. I get that you are also trying to be helpful, and probably mean less malice than it comes across over the internet because, frankly, the internet is a shithole of everyone yelling at each other. But Vital has been a space that seems to have remained a refuge of reasonability despite everything else falling to click and rage bate. I am glad Vital is not the pinkbike comment section, nor is it mtbr, and I (as well as other people) would love to keep it that way.
So with that being said, can we please avoid the shit talking and mater of fact statements because that's the quickest way to turn vital into the internet hellscape I so desperately want to avoid. I also do not want, nor have the ability to, prevent your opinions and discussion on this platform.
So with that being said, I implore you to try a different tact when expressing your opinions to make it clear that they are, in fact, solely your opinions.
statements like "I believe, or I think or I feel" are great in letting a reader know you are speaking from a place of discussion and help foster people being receptive to listening.
For example, lets take the following:
"The GRIPX2 released at the same time went firm and harsh, the GRIPX went with really soft compression and slow rebound."
Having owned both dampers I can honestly say that my experience with both, for their given applications and intent, have been extremely positive, and that I believe your matter of fact statement is horseshit. You could potentially alleviated my raged induced reaction by more fully expressing the fact that it is coming from your own experiance, which 100% differs from my own. That would look something like the following:
"I believe the gripx2 released at the same time is both firm and harsh, however my experiences with the gripx are the exact opposite where I feel it is both soft in compression and over-damped (slow) in rebound."
Your opinions are the same, but it comes off less dickish and more engaging for discussion. Please remember that words (or the absence of them) matter. And with some careful reframing you can express your opinions and keep vital a pleasant place to engage other mountain bikers from around the world.
That certainly is an interesting start into a post about tone policing. Out of curiosity, did you for example bother checking the Fox part list? The only listed rebound tune for Grip X is called RF (Rebound firm). Like, it's not even a secret.
You do have a point here or there of course, but the way you posted is not the way you'd want the interaction coming your way I'm sure.
That certainly is an interesting start into a post about tone policing. Out of curiosity, did you for example bother checking the Fox part list? The...
That certainly is an interesting start into a post about tone policing. Out of curiosity, did you for example bother checking the Fox part list? The only listed rebound tune for Grip X is called RF (Rebound firm). Like, it's not even a secret.
You do have a point here or there of course, but the way you posted is not the way you'd want the interaction coming your way I'm sure.
I wasn't sure where everything was coming from but a bit of Googling shows there was a suspension guru with the handle Dougal on mtbr that got banned for... Let's say unkind posts. I think @DServy assumes @Dougal - SC is the same person behind the mote or less the same handle and doesn't want Vital MTB to turn to the shitshow that was MTBR before the ban.
That certainly is an interesting start into a post about tone policing. Out of curiosity, did you for example bother checking the Fox part list? The...
That certainly is an interesting start into a post about tone policing. Out of curiosity, did you for example bother checking the Fox part list? The only listed rebound tune for Grip X is called RF (Rebound firm). Like, it's not even a secret.
You do have a point here or there of course, but the way you posted is not the way you'd want the interaction coming your way I'm sure.
I wasn't sure where everything was coming from but a bit of Googling shows there was a suspension guru with the handle Dougal on mtbr that...
I wasn't sure where everything was coming from but a bit of Googling shows there was a suspension guru with the handle Dougal on mtbr that got banned for... Let's say unkind posts. I think @DServy assumes @Dougal - SC is the same person behind the mote or less the same handle and doesn't want Vital MTB to turn to the shitshow that was MTBR before the ban.
Or something along those lines?
100%
Honestly, we have a really good thing going here. We have amazing contributions from people doing amazing work across all aspects of mountain biking. We've had multiple owners of companies, other engineers, product testers and designers give incredible feedback on a wide variety of topics. Giving their time and their knowledge in constructive ways to help foster a level of bike nerd and discussion that you just don't get elsewhere, and they do that because vital isn't a cesspool of negativity and combative complaining. I'm sure everyone working on the hard part of designing, engineering, building, testing, is doing the best they can with the resources that they are given and the goals they are trying to achieve, and the last thing they need is for some "guru" to proselytize their dogmatic way.
That certainly is an interesting start into a post about tone policing. Out of curiosity, did you for example bother checking the Fox part list? The...
That certainly is an interesting start into a post about tone policing. Out of curiosity, did you for example bother checking the Fox part list? The only listed rebound tune for Grip X is called RF (Rebound firm). Like, it's not even a secret.
You do have a point here or there of course, but the way you posted is not the way you'd want the interaction coming your way I'm sure.
I wasn't sure where everything was coming from but a bit of Googling shows there was a suspension guru with the handle Dougal on mtbr that...
I wasn't sure where everything was coming from but a bit of Googling shows there was a suspension guru with the handle Dougal on mtbr that got banned for... Let's say unkind posts. I think @DServy assumes @Dougal - SC is the same person behind the mote or less the same handle and doesn't want Vital MTB to turn to the shitshow that was MTBR before the ban.
100%Honestly, we have a really good thing going here. We have amazing contributions from people doing amazing work across all aspects of mountain biking. We've had...
100%
Honestly, we have a really good thing going here. We have amazing contributions from people doing amazing work across all aspects of mountain biking. We've had multiple owners of companies, other engineers, product testers and designers give incredible feedback on a wide variety of topics. Giving their time and their knowledge in constructive ways to help foster a level of bike nerd and discussion that you just don't get elsewhere, and they do that because vital isn't a cesspool of negativity and combative complaining. I'm sure everyone working on the hard part of designing, engineering, building, testing, is doing the best they can with the resources that they are given and the goals they are trying to achieve, and the last thing they need is for some "guru" to proselytize their dogmatic way.
(note, to all the tuners who have contributed to this thread, I have deeply enjoyed your insights and I'm stoked you guys are here)
I hate to break it to you, but both can be true. There can both be utter fanboys of anything (big suspension, tuners, products, what have you) and designs that are objectively really poor. Designs where you have to wonder how they passed any testing.
Before getting into such issues, suspension setups of less experienced riders tend to have a lot of room for improvement. I think that's due to mostly two reasons:
- A heap of "tutorials" are put out by people that are at least bad at explaining and maybe even bad at understanding the concepts behind suspension setup. - The concept of how the internal valving will only work for a certain spring rate range is extremely undercommunicated.
If you are not aware it's a realistic scenario that your rear shock (rarely fork damper) is never going to perform well with the spring rate you want/have to run, that is a problem. This is not helped by AI guides that provide you "precise clicker positions" for shock models without having any resources about the internals.
The next issue then is more of a design thing, e.g. clickers on your suspension which do not do what they say on them, pistons with ports that are too small for their job, oil that is too thick to be temperature stable, ... It is absolutely fair to point these out, especially to people who have not yet bought their next suspension product. And it is absolutely possible to recommend models from big suspension that require the least amount of work to get into a happy place.
The real problems start, however, if people feel like their favourite toy is being attacked. That is where the conversation always goes sideways. This also usually is the point where people start flexing their riding skills to prove points that just can't be proven that way. I am not sure how one should go about this, though.
The rebound tune question about Grip X is a perfect example. It is objectively true the rebound tune is going to be too firm (i.e. slow) for a good portion of riders, however large that may be. It is also true that for spring rates that the rebound tune works well for, the fork will lack compression damping. Yet you call that "shitting on hard engineering work".
That certainly is an interesting start into a post about tone policing. Out of curiosity, did you for example bother checking the Fox part list? The...
That certainly is an interesting start into a post about tone policing. Out of curiosity, did you for example bother checking the Fox part list? The only listed rebound tune for Grip X is called RF (Rebound firm). Like, it's not even a secret.
You do have a point here or there of course, but the way you posted is not the way you'd want the interaction coming your way I'm sure.
I wasn't sure where everything was coming from but a bit of Googling shows there was a suspension guru with the handle Dougal on mtbr that...
I wasn't sure where everything was coming from but a bit of Googling shows there was a suspension guru with the handle Dougal on mtbr that got banned for... Let's say unkind posts. I think @DServy assumes @Dougal - SC is the same person behind the mote or less the same handle and doesn't want Vital MTB to turn to the shitshow that was MTBR before the ban.
Or something along those lines?
"it appears that DServy was banned from MTBR following some controversial or unkind posts. [1]"
The plot thickens lol, havent seen anything dickish from Dougal here, just helpful advice (dont know the past).
That certainly is an interesting start into a post about tone policing. Out of curiosity, did you for example bother checking the Fox part list? The...
That certainly is an interesting start into a post about tone policing. Out of curiosity, did you for example bother checking the Fox part list? The only listed rebound tune for Grip X is called RF (Rebound firm). Like, it's not even a secret.
You do have a point here or there of course, but the way you posted is not the way you'd want the interaction coming your way I'm sure.
I wasn't sure where everything was coming from but a bit of Googling shows there was a suspension guru with the handle Dougal on mtbr that...
I wasn't sure where everything was coming from but a bit of Googling shows there was a suspension guru with the handle Dougal on mtbr that got banned for... Let's say unkind posts. I think @DServy assumes @Dougal - SC is the same person behind the mote or less the same handle and doesn't want Vital MTB to turn to the shitshow that was MTBR before the ban.
"it appears that DServy was banned from MTBR following some controversial or unkind posts. [1]"The plot thickens lol, havent seen anything dickish from Dougal...
"it appears that DServy was banned from MTBR following some controversial or unkind posts. [1]"
The plot thickens lol, havent seen anything dickish from Dougal here, just helpful advice (dont know the past).
I've never been banned from MTBR, Don't even have an account, so don't know where you got that from.
As far as what what Friedrichsaid, I actually agree 100%. There is, and traditionally has been, some crap product out there with thing that don't do what they say or will never work for a given scenario. I think one of my favorite examples is the mythical HSC knob on the first generation GripX2 that was basically a placebo.
You specified it quite well where sometimes things are just up to the job, but I feel an equally valid opinion is asking whether something is the right tool for the job to begin with. Why are you expecting a damper designed for application A to preform equally as good as application B? The fact of the matter is that the products made for the masses of bike riders are trying to provide windows of functionality for an incredible range of rider weight and styles, and that's incredibly difficult. That is fundamentally why I am hesitant to make the outright claims people desperately want to make, and I think people should be wary about the claims of random strangers on the internet.
Take for example your GripX comment and its bemoaned RF tune. As a heavier rider in a 120mm fork it works great. Simply put, the lack of travel makes slowing down shafts speeds and dissipating energy in the return stoke a much more difficult task than it is with my DH fork with 200mm of travel and a heavy front wheel with a DH tire on it. Does that intrinsically mean that damper is bad? Maybe? It certainly is noisy. Would I recommend said damper for 130 lb riders in long travel applications? Probably not, do I think it odd that Fox shoved them in their long travel applications? Probably. Do I think it's even odder than a company like Ibis (who is notorious for fast rebound tunes with their "tractive tuned" rears) put them on ripmos? Yep. Is it a better damper for me in my 34 then the previous one? I think so.
Having spent some time, although not nearly enough, actually recording and looking at suspension data I can firmly say that suspension dynamics is a gordian knot. I've seen tuning sessions where every change we've made to the fork only changed the meaningful data in the shock (due to the rider shifting their center of mass), I've been in sessions where literally nothing meaningful changed in the data but the rider ended up 8% faster on an 4 minute track. These systems are complex and dynamic, so should the discussion around them be as well.
Look, my intent wasn't to derail this thread into the nature of engineering good and evil: suspension edition. It was an attempt to ward off the evils of "guru"fication of the vital suspension forms.
Before this goes the wrong way: Some commentators are plainly frustrated rather than hateful. It becomes clear if you allow for that perspective when reading the respective comments.
To stay with the example: I would love the Grip X to be great for as many people as possible. After all, I guess everyone that is as deep into the matter as the people reading this are asked "What would you buy" from time to time. I think there were potential for this to be true. In my opinion, current fork offerings from Fox are much better than their Rockshox counterparts, but sadly only on the potential level in some aspects. There are great ideas but exectution of some parts seems weird to me. Did the Grip X have e.g. a thicker shaft, say 10mm, and more mid valve as well as base valve tunes available to account for differences in rider weight (respectively spring rate), I think it could be a great product. I couldn't care less about it being noisy.
Long story short: More information is better. Dougals views may be controversial and he may not be as good at stressing positive aspects rather than aspects where the products do fall short (be that objective or subjective, both can happen), but he is one of few people to offer lots of interesting insights. You can, after all, always decide the information does not matter to you.
I hate to break it to you, but both can be true. There can both be utter fanboys of anything (big suspension, tuners, products, what have...
I hate to break it to you, but both can be true. There can both be utter fanboys of anything (big suspension, tuners, products, what have you) and designs that are objectively really poor. Designs where you have to wonder how they passed any testing.
Before getting into such issues, suspension setups of less experienced riders tend to have a lot of room for improvement. I think that's due to mostly two reasons:
- A heap of "tutorials" are put out by people that are at least bad at explaining and maybe even bad at understanding the concepts behind suspension setup. - The concept of how the internal valving will only work for a certain spring rate range is extremely undercommunicated.
If you are not aware it's a realistic scenario that your rear shock (rarely fork damper) is never going to perform well with the spring rate you want/have to run, that is a problem. This is not helped by AI guides that provide you "precise clicker positions" for shock models without having any resources about the internals.
The next issue then is more of a design thing, e.g. clickers on your suspension which do not do what they say on them, pistons with ports that are too small for their job, oil that is too thick to be temperature stable, ... It is absolutely fair to point these out, especially to people who have not yet bought their next suspension product. And it is absolutely possible to recommend models from big suspension that require the least amount of work to get into a happy place.
The real problems start, however, if people feel like their favourite toy is being attacked. That is where the conversation always goes sideways. This also usually is the point where people start flexing their riding skills to prove points that just can't be proven that way. I am not sure how one should go about this, though.
The rebound tune question about Grip X is a perfect example. It is objectively true the rebound tune is going to be too firm (i.e. slow) for a good portion of riders, however large that may be. It is also true that for spring rates that the rebound tune works well for, the fork will lack compression damping. Yet you call that "shitting on hard engineering work".
This has to be up there on the list of most polite way of saying that big suspension typically has to be tuned to work well regardless of how many dials you can play with. The base tunes are all over the place, one generation is almost slope style level firm, next gen of the same fork comes with basically no compression damping at all. Why? No one cares to explain, feel free to guess. Or maybe that's how it came to be? They are guessing?
I wasn't sure where everything was coming from but a bit of Googling shows there was a suspension guru with the handle Dougal on mtbr that...
I wasn't sure where everything was coming from but a bit of Googling shows there was a suspension guru with the handle Dougal on mtbr that got banned for... Let's say unkind posts. I think @DServy assumes @Dougal - SC is the same person behind the mote or less the same handle and doesn't want Vital MTB to turn to the shitshow that was MTBR before the ban.
"it appears that DServy was banned from MTBR following some controversial or unkind posts. [1]"The plot thickens lol, havent seen anything dickish from Dougal...
"it appears that DServy was banned from MTBR following some controversial or unkind posts. [1]"
The plot thickens lol, havent seen anything dickish from Dougal here, just helpful advice (dont know the past).
I've never been banned from MTBR, Don't even have an account, so don't know where you got that from.As far as what what Friedrichsaid, I...
I've never been banned from MTBR, Don't even have an account, so don't know where you got that from.
As far as what what Friedrichsaid, I actually agree 100%. There is, and traditionally has been, some crap product out there with thing that don't do what they say or will never work for a given scenario. I think one of my favorite examples is the mythical HSC knob on the first generation GripX2 that was basically a placebo.
You specified it quite well where sometimes things are just up to the job, but I feel an equally valid opinion is asking whether something is the right tool for the job to begin with. Why are you expecting a damper designed for application A to preform equally as good as application B? The fact of the matter is that the products made for the masses of bike riders are trying to provide windows of functionality for an incredible range of rider weight and styles, and that's incredibly difficult. That is fundamentally why I am hesitant to make the outright claims people desperately want to make, and I think people should be wary about the claims of random strangers on the internet.
Take for example your GripX comment and its bemoaned RF tune. As a heavier rider in a 120mm fork it works great. Simply put, the lack of travel makes slowing down shafts speeds and dissipating energy in the return stoke a much more difficult task than it is with my DH fork with 200mm of travel and a heavy front wheel with a DH tire on it. Does that intrinsically mean that damper is bad? Maybe? It certainly is noisy. Would I recommend said damper for 130 lb riders in long travel applications? Probably not, do I think it odd that Fox shoved them in their long travel applications? Probably. Do I think it's even odder than a company like Ibis (who is notorious for fast rebound tunes with their "tractive tuned" rears) put them on ripmos? Yep. Is it a better damper for me in my 34 then the previous one? I think so.
Having spent some time, although not nearly enough, actually recording and looking at suspension data I can firmly say that suspension dynamics is a gordian knot. I've seen tuning sessions where every change we've made to the fork only changed the meaningful data in the shock (due to the rider shifting their center of mass), I've been in sessions where literally nothing meaningful changed in the data but the rider ended up 8% faster on an 4 minute track. These systems are complex and dynamic, so should the discussion around them be as well.
Look, my intent wasn't to derail this thread into the nature of engineering good and evil: suspension edition. It was an attempt to ward off the evils of "guru"fication of the vital suspension forms.
It was just copy and pasted from google. Dougals advice mirrors the "Healthy Alternatives" in your link". Why would you be upset with somebody following the advice you shared in the link. That is what I was thinking in my head.
Thank you for the response. I bought the bike back in January so it’s not old but it’s definitely broken in. I agree max travel is not the most important thing, but in the past I’ve always been able to set my front and rear suspension up to achieve max travel on the biggest jump landings.
Also respectfully, it's called damping, not dampening.
Indeed it is. Thanks for the correction.
I’ve always set my stuff up first and foremost by feel. If I’ve got some adjustment flexibility in the setup window I might try to target about 90% travel for my biggest intentional hits. Having a buffer is nice and in many case trying to chase that last 10% can sometimes cause setup compromises depending on the suspension. If Im under 90% and like how it rides I just don’t worry about it.
Compared to 5-10 years ago, forks have evolved (or should that be EVOLved....) to have larger negative springs and and overall more progressive spring curve, which is much better in performance but does make them harder to get every last mm of stroke - its very common for the average rider to have 0 volume spacers in their forks vs 2 or 3 not too long ago. Especially if your fork is set to its longest travel option since they have the largest compression ratio in both the air spring and lowers.
On top of that, the extra negative volume is normally robbed from the lowers which adds even more progression to the system. IMO these are more than acceptable trade offs as air springs are so much better than they used to be - I would be more concerned if you were always using all the travel, or if there was 30-40mm left over. But 10 is nothing to stress about, and I would probably even recommend that over using all of it - so if something goes wrong you know there is some in reserve!
I appreciate all the feedback. My point of reference to compare the ‘26 34 is the ‘16 34 on my Yeti. I guess the air springs have just gotten more progressive in the last 10 yrs. The reason I’m harping on it is that I’ve developed numbness in my hands on long rides which I’ve never had before. I know the numbness is likely due to cockpit setup but I figured I’d ask the Vital brain trust about the fork just in case. 👍🏻
Ahh yup...OK It could be the fork but it is unlikely to be directly caused by too much progression, its normally tyres (width/casing/pressure), friction or initial spring rate (in that order). I would suggest zero spacers (which I think you already have) and then probably increase the pressure until it gets worse (in a different way) or you are around the recommended pressure (or it gets better!).
Try lower tyre pressure if you havent already, then bracket the damper settings - it would be handy to drop the lowers and grease the dust wipers if they haven't been already as well. Whatever you do, and before someone else suggests it do NOT wipe the grease out of the air spring - that will only make things worse.
Great advice. Yes, tires could be a contributor. I am not a fan of the Specialized Purgatory tire up front. Grip is good but the casing seems very stiff even with the tire pressure at 20psi. I’m going to mount a Maxxis Rekon to see if that helps. Thanks again!
So, I think I finally have enough time on it to develop an opinion.
Is it a better fork than the 38 gripx2? Yes.
Does it have a much narrower sweet spot than the old fork. Very much so.
So, I've kinda thrown everything at the fork in trying to make it feel good. Tokens in, tokens out, less sag, more sag, tons of HSC, no HSC, so on and so forth. If you did this with the old fork you could still get something that was more or less rideable. Not so with this fork. I think, in large part to the different ratios between the positive and negative air chambers this fork is incredibly sag sensitive. If you run a ton of sag the fork just has no suppleness, and if you try to run it with very little sag it just ends up way too progressive. The rebound on the new gripx2 damper suffers from the same problem, a fairly narrow sweet spot between HSR and LSR. I find in both of my forks running the new gripx2 damper that I'm running 2 clicks of LSR for ever click of HSR. The fork also seems very sensitive to service intervals due to losing 10 cc of 20 wt in the air chamber.
With that out of the way, I can now say the following:
The fork is incredible. Easily the best iteration of a single crown fork I've ridden (for reference my previous benchmark was the glidecore 36). As a heavier rider the lack of binding in the air spring is very noticeable, and between the damper improvements and the spring improvements the fork feels more responsive and controlled. It may seem odd but you can tell that the resistance in the fork to movement is coming from the spring and the damper and NOT the interplay between static friction moving to dynamic friction. Damper wise, everything feels useable and actually can provide the damping characteristics I want.
That being said, due to its narrower sweet spot its even more of a pain to setup. My recommendation is do not go above 20% sag (probably use one less token than what comes in your fork), 2:1 LSR to HSR, minimal LSC and actually don't be afraid of the HSC dial (its quite good).
I just had one, very brief ride on the Simons.Lab Zeta in my Intend Edge - thought I’d do a VERY brief ride report.
I’m 170 lbs, on a Spec Stumpy 15 with CC link 27.5”. I had to up my air pressure quite a bit given the damper leg is no longer sealed. My recommended settings were HSC -4, LSC -4, HSR -4, LSR -9. My Edge steerer is unfortunately really short, so when I removed my Shockcraft Mezzer Stage 2 (which I LOVE), I had to lower my stem 12 mm, so that colors my review a bit.
I have a relatively weak upper body, but ride hard, and really appreciate a well tuned damper.
All that said, I’m impressed! It’s so great having HBO in this fork. It’s dead silent (I like damper whoosh!!), and uber smooth. I need more time to dial in my settings (rebound was pretty fast), but I did fully close LSC & HSC and it’s completely rideable if not comfortable.
Definitely need more time but so far so good. The damper itself is just beautiful. I’ll report back once I’ve had more time on it.
Cool! Report back after a few rides,
If there is something that I’d never think about on the Edge is HBO, I’d love a HSC knob but the HBO is probably something I’d never care about as I don’t get to the bottom out even if I try to with a setting that works beautifully for everything else,
Let’s see maybe this summer things will change
Yes, the bike is balanced. I’ve been a hardcore mountain biker and motocrosser for years and I’m good at setting up suspension. The fork feels ok generally but it’s the first fork I’ve ever had that’s never bottomed out. That combined with the hand numbness has just gotten in my head a bit.
Surprised nobody mentioned it already since it's a fox fork but have you opened up your air spring to see if there is not a 1inch tick glob of grease on top of the air spring top cap ?
Edit: my bad, missed the suspensionlabnz post that mentioned excess grease in the air spring
As a matter of fact, @TheSuspensionLabNZ mentioned that a few posts ago and had some strongly worded thoughts on the matter:
"Whatever you do, and before someone else suggests it do NOT wipe the grease out of the air spring - that will only make things worse." TLDR this customer's fork is too progressive already, and wiping out the grease will make the negative air spring volume even bigger and make the fork more progressive.
Isn’t a bigger negative what makes forks more linear?
Even though that looks like a huge amount of grease (and more than needed), it makes a negligible difference to negative volume in a modern fork so that example isn't an issue at all. The problem more comes from people wiping out too much grease and the fork quickly runs dry and feels horrific. I've been meaning to post a thermal image video of a recent lyrik that was running like this and you could see the stanchion warming up while cycling the air shaft by hand!
Air springs are more forgiving with the amount of grease needed since the NA2/EVOL air springs or RS debonair so the last 8-9 years most have had a perfectly fine amount of grease. For 2026 Fox seems to be using even less though - less than I would use but probably just enough that its still fine.
34's can ingest bath oil sometimes - due to less seals, but it normally takes a long time or if you do several lower leg services without doing the air spring
Yes and no. A proportionately larger negative chamber makes the initial part of the spring curve more linear (but really just less digressive, still definitely NOT linear), and it makes the last segment of travel more progressive.
Most of the direct effects of the bigger negative chamber happen in the first 25-ish percent of travel, which you can see in the graph. The increased ramp up in the last 75-ish percent of travel is due to the fact that you have to run more pressure with a larger negative spring to get the same sag point, which inherently requires more force to fully compress.
Dear Dougal,
I know your favorite past time is to shit on the hard engineering work of people and then yell at them when they try to engage you in good faith arguments. I get that you are also trying to be helpful, and probably mean less malice than it comes across over the internet because, frankly, the internet is a shithole of everyone yelling at each other. But Vital has been a space that seems to have remained a refuge of reasonability despite everything else falling to click and rage bate. I am glad Vital is not the pinkbike comment section, nor is it mtbr, and I (as well as other people) would love to keep it that way.
So with that being said, can we please avoid the shit talking and mater of fact statements because that's the quickest way to turn vital into the internet hellscape I so desperately want to avoid. I also do not want, nor have the ability to, prevent your opinions and discussion on this platform.
So with that being said, I implore you to try a different tact when expressing your opinions to make it clear that they are, in fact, solely your opinions.
statements like "I believe, or I think or I feel" are great in letting a reader know you are speaking from a place of discussion and help foster people being receptive to listening.
For example, lets take the following:
"The GRIPX2 released at the same time went firm and harsh, the GRIPX went with really soft compression and slow rebound."
Having owned both dampers I can honestly say that my experience with both, for their given applications and intent, have been extremely positive, and that I believe your matter of fact statement is horseshit. You could potentially alleviated my raged induced reaction by more fully expressing the fact that it is coming from your own experiance, which 100% differs from my own. That would look something like the following:
"I believe the gripx2 released at the same time is both firm and harsh, however my experiences with the gripx are the exact opposite where I feel it is both soft in compression and over-damped (slow) in rebound."
Your opinions are the same, but it comes off less dickish and more engaging for discussion. Please remember that words (or the absence of them) matter. And with some careful reframing you can express your opinions and keep vital a pleasant place to engage other mountain bikers from around the world.
Sincerely,
Someone who really likes vital's community
That certainly is an interesting start into a post about tone policing. Out of curiosity, did you for example bother checking the Fox part list? The only listed rebound tune for Grip X is called RF (Rebound firm). Like, it's not even a secret.
You do have a point here or there of course, but the way you posted is not the way you'd want the interaction coming your way I'm sure.
If I had a dollar for every trail side suspension guru that knew all the perfect settings for my fork...
I wasn't sure where everything was coming from but a bit of Googling shows there was a suspension guru with the handle Dougal on mtbr that got banned for... Let's say unkind posts. I think @DServy assumes @Dougal - SC is the same person behind the mote or less the same handle and doesn't want Vital MTB to turn to the shitshow that was MTBR before the ban.
Or something along those lines?
Oh it definitely is the same Dougal. You and I may be disagreeing about the "unkind" bit though.
100%
Honestly, we have a really good thing going here. We have amazing contributions from people doing amazing work across all aspects of mountain biking. We've had multiple owners of companies, other engineers, product testers and designers give incredible feedback on a wide variety of topics. Giving their time and their knowledge in constructive ways to help foster a level of bike nerd and discussion that you just don't get elsewhere, and they do that because vital isn't a cesspool of negativity and combative complaining. I'm sure everyone working on the hard part of designing, engineering, building, testing, is doing the best they can with the resources that they are given and the goals they are trying to achieve, and the last thing they need is for some "guru" to proselytize their dogmatic way.
https://freehub.com/features/suspension-cult
(note, to all the tuners who have contributed to this thread, I have deeply enjoyed your insights and I'm stoked you guys are here)
I hate to break it to you, but both can be true. There can both be utter fanboys of anything (big suspension, tuners, products, what have you) and designs that are objectively really poor. Designs where you have to wonder how they passed any testing.
Before getting into such issues, suspension setups of less experienced riders tend to have a lot of room for improvement. I think that's due to mostly two reasons:
- A heap of "tutorials" are put out by people that are at least bad at explaining and maybe even bad at understanding the concepts behind suspension setup.
- The concept of how the internal valving will only work for a certain spring rate range is extremely undercommunicated.
If you are not aware it's a realistic scenario that your rear shock (rarely fork damper) is never going to perform well with the spring rate you want/have to run, that is a problem. This is not helped by AI guides that provide you "precise clicker positions" for shock models without having any resources about the internals.
The next issue then is more of a design thing, e.g. clickers on your suspension which do not do what they say on them, pistons with ports that are too small for their job, oil that is too thick to be temperature stable, ... It is absolutely fair to point these out, especially to people who have not yet bought their next suspension product. And it is absolutely possible to recommend models from big suspension that require the least amount of work to get into a happy place.
The real problems start, however, if people feel like their favourite toy is being attacked. That is where the conversation always goes sideways. This also usually is the point where people start flexing their riding skills to prove points that just can't be proven that way. I am not sure how one should go about this, though.
The rebound tune question about Grip X is a perfect example. It is objectively true the rebound tune is going to be too firm (i.e. slow) for a good portion of riders, however large that may be. It is also true that for spring rates that the rebound tune works well for, the fork will lack compression damping. Yet you call that "shitting on hard engineering work".
"it appears that DServy was banned from MTBR following some controversial or unkind posts. [1]"
The plot thickens lol, havent seen anything dickish from Dougal here, just helpful advice (dont know the past).
I don't know what the backstory is either, this is what I gathered by searching the Internet...
I've never been banned from MTBR, Don't even have an account, so don't know where you got that from.
As far as what what Friedrich said, I actually agree 100%. There is, and traditionally has been, some crap product out there with thing that don't do what they say or will never work for a given scenario. I think one of my favorite examples is the mythical HSC knob on the first generation GripX2 that was basically a placebo.
You specified it quite well where sometimes things are just up to the job, but I feel an equally valid opinion is asking whether something is the right tool for the job to begin with. Why are you expecting a damper designed for application A to preform equally as good as application B? The fact of the matter is that the products made for the masses of bike riders are trying to provide windows of functionality for an incredible range of rider weight and styles, and that's incredibly difficult. That is fundamentally why I am hesitant to make the outright claims people desperately want to make, and I think people should be wary about the claims of random strangers on the internet.
Take for example your GripX comment and its bemoaned RF tune. As a heavier rider in a 120mm fork it works great. Simply put, the lack of travel makes slowing down shafts speeds and dissipating energy in the return stoke a much more difficult task than it is with my DH fork with 200mm of travel and a heavy front wheel with a DH tire on it. Does that intrinsically mean that damper is bad? Maybe? It certainly is noisy. Would I recommend said damper for 130 lb riders in long travel applications? Probably not, do I think it odd that Fox shoved them in their long travel applications? Probably. Do I think it's even odder than a company like Ibis (who is notorious for fast rebound tunes with their "tractive tuned" rears) put them on ripmos? Yep. Is it a better damper for me in my 34 then the previous one? I think so.
Having spent some time, although not nearly enough, actually recording and looking at suspension data I can firmly say that suspension dynamics is a gordian knot. I've seen tuning sessions where every change we've made to the fork only changed the meaningful data in the shock (due to the rider shifting their center of mass), I've been in sessions where literally nothing meaningful changed in the data but the rider ended up 8% faster on an 4 minute track. These systems are complex and dynamic, so should the discussion around them be as well.
Look, my intent wasn't to derail this thread into the nature of engineering good and evil: suspension edition. It was an attempt to ward off the evils of "guru"fication of the vital suspension forms.
Before this goes the wrong way: Some commentators are plainly frustrated rather than hateful. It becomes clear if you allow for that perspective when reading the respective comments.
To stay with the example: I would love the Grip X to be great for as many people as possible. After all, I guess everyone that is as deep into the matter as the people reading this are asked "What would you buy" from time to time. I think there were potential for this to be true. In my opinion, current fork offerings from Fox are much better than their Rockshox counterparts, but sadly only on the potential level in some aspects. There are great ideas but exectution of some parts seems weird to me. Did the Grip X have e.g. a thicker shaft, say 10mm, and more mid valve as well as base valve tunes available to account for differences in rider weight (respectively spring rate), I think it could be a great product. I couldn't care less about it being noisy.
Long story short: More information is better. Dougals views may be controversial and he may not be as good at stressing positive aspects rather than aspects where the products do fall short (be that objective or subjective, both can happen), but he is one of few people to offer lots of interesting insights. You can, after all, always decide the information does not matter to you.
This has to be up there on the list of most polite way of saying that big suspension typically has to be tuned to work well regardless of how many dials you can play with. The base tunes are all over the place, one generation is almost slope style level firm, next gen of the same fork comes with basically no compression damping at all. Why? No one cares to explain, feel free to guess. Or maybe that's how it came to be? They are guessing?
It was just copy and pasted from google. Dougals advice mirrors the "Healthy Alternatives" in your link". Why would you be upset with somebody following the advice you shared in the link. That is what I was thinking in my head.
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