For those of you unhappy with 90, would you rather have gx t type given all the issues, or is the Jab the only solution? My X01 eagle is still working great and will continue to for a long time, but every bike I've pedaled with eagle 90 felt reasonably good.
For those of you unhappy with 90, would you rather have gx t type given all the issues, or is the Jab the only solution? My...
For those of you unhappy with 90, would you rather have gx t type given all the issues, or is the Jab the only solution? My X01 eagle is still working great and will continue to for a long time, but every bike I've pedaled with eagle 90 felt reasonably good.
For me it's that I've never had a problem getting X01 and XX1 mechanical Eagle DRs to shift perfectly, and all the T-type DRs are much larger and heavier. I still prefer mechanical, as am one of the few that prefers a grip shift instead of a trigger, and again, the size and weight.
The Madrone Jab with whatever shifter you want solves that issue. I've been on all the latest drivetrains from SRAM and Shimano, and the Jab blows...
The Madrone Jab with whatever shifter you want solves that issue. I've been on all the latest drivetrains from SRAM and Shimano, and the Jab blows them all out of the water in pretty much every aspect - price being the only outlier there.
This is what I'm planning on doing. My issue with Eagle 90 is that, no matter what I do, it seems like it just can't be setup...
This is what I'm planning on doing.
My issue with Eagle 90 is that, no matter what I do, it seems like it just can't be setup perfectly. The lack of limit screws and b-adjust make it a pain to try and get it totally dialed in. When it works, it works OK, but when it doesn't, the process of fixing it just doesn't seem to fix it entirely. There is always something out of alignment or slightly off. I've setup or installed many other drivetrains including SRAM 12 speed without this being an issue, but neither me nor bike shops seem to be able to get it working as well as the others have.
I don't really care about the feel of the shifter. It's good enough, except one I have that gets stuck and I have to kick the rear mech with my foot to get it to move out of the easiest gear.
I'm gonna put the Madrone on the two bikes I care about and hopefully resolve this issue.
That was my experience with Eagle 90. Runs fine for a little bit, but the overall build feels "cheap" and just gets sloppy over time; the...
That was my experience with Eagle 90. Runs fine for a little bit, but the overall build feels "cheap" and just gets sloppy over time; the shifter is also meh. I currently have the Jab with an XT shifter, and it's been solid on every bike I've put it on; it doesn't feel like an RD that I need to worry about since it can all be repaired.
Plus, Madrone continues to make updates inspired by rider and customer feedback, so each update actually makes sense...
+1, My jab makes everything from Sram, Shimano & TRP feel cheap and poorly made. Waiting on the silver cage DH version to drop so I can nab one for the big bike. I'm at the point where an XO or XT rear mech would be pretty well worked over from rock strikes and general wear and tear and start losing that crisp shifting yet the jab is just as slop free as the day I mounted it on the first bike despite having been slammed into rocks with little regard for its durability. It's been over a year and it has already paid for itself.
Waiting on that shifter coming sooner rather than later.
For me it's that I've never had a problem getting X01 and XX1 mechanical Eagle DRs to shift perfectly, and all the T-type DRs are much...
For me it's that I've never had a problem getting X01 and XX1 mechanical Eagle DRs to shift perfectly, and all the T-type DRs are much larger and heavier. I still prefer mechanical, as am one of the few that prefers a grip shift instead of a trigger, and again, the size and weight.
I suspect our opinions on importance of weight and size may differ slightly, hence the username
No issues with c90 that aren't typical to transmission (cassette warranty issues). I have several t-type drivetrains in the fleet of bikes between my wife and I... they are all just as reliable as xo mechanical eagle was. C90 can use a better shifter for sure to feel premium... but shift quality and reliability are inline with what I have come to expect from sram and other than keeping an existing bike on eagle and replacing wear items... I have no reason to not use transmission going forward. I do not miss limit screws or b-tension bolts that self adjust with bikes that have more extreme rearward axle paths and once you get used to being able to shift under load, going back to eagle feels like a limiting factor in certain situations.
For certain applications, c90 is now preferred for me. I prefer it on my enduro/park bike because I can dump gears faster and I can still replace a cage when I abuse it and break stuff. The madrone is a nice looking piece but not without a few quirks along the way and it's 100 dollars more than a c90 derailleur. Not saying that it's not rad and I do love the repairability... but c90 is really good and for me, it's been rock solid reliable.
No issues with c90 that aren't typical to transmission (cassette warranty issues). I have several t-type drivetrains in the fleet of bikes between my wife and...
No issues with c90 that aren't typical to transmission (cassette warranty issues). I have several t-type drivetrains in the fleet of bikes between my wife and I... they are all just as reliable as xo mechanical eagle was. C90 can use a better shifter for sure to feel premium... but shift quality and reliability are inline with what I have come to expect from sram and other than keeping an existing bike on eagle and replacing wear items... I have no reason to not use transmission going forward. I do not miss limit screws or b-tension bolts that self adjust with bikes that have more extreme rearward axle paths and once you get used to being able to shift under load, going back to eagle feels like a limiting factor in certain situations.
For certain applications, c90 is now preferred for me. I prefer it on my enduro/park bike because I can dump gears faster and I can still replace a cage when I abuse it and break stuff. The madrone is a nice looking piece but not without a few quirks along the way and it's 100 dollars more than a c90 derailleur. Not saying that it's not rad and I do love the repairability... but c90 is really good and for me, it's been rock solid reliable.
So if you haven't had any problems with the lack of limit screws or b-tension adjustment, why do you think you're not having problems configuring Eagle 90 and other people are?
Possible theory #1: All of the alignment problems people are describing are actually cassette tolerance problems that would be fixed by doing a warranty replacement of the cassette?
Possible theory #2: People aren't setting up the derailleur correctly during the very unusual Transmission red alignment cog/"B-tension" step.
No issues with c90 that aren't typical to transmission (cassette warranty issues). I have several t-type drivetrains in the fleet of bikes between my wife and...
No issues with c90 that aren't typical to transmission (cassette warranty issues). I have several t-type drivetrains in the fleet of bikes between my wife and I... they are all just as reliable as xo mechanical eagle was. C90 can use a better shifter for sure to feel premium... but shift quality and reliability are inline with what I have come to expect from sram and other than keeping an existing bike on eagle and replacing wear items... I have no reason to not use transmission going forward. I do not miss limit screws or b-tension bolts that self adjust with bikes that have more extreme rearward axle paths and once you get used to being able to shift under load, going back to eagle feels like a limiting factor in certain situations.
For certain applications, c90 is now preferred for me. I prefer it on my enduro/park bike because I can dump gears faster and I can still replace a cage when I abuse it and break stuff. The madrone is a nice looking piece but not without a few quirks along the way and it's 100 dollars more than a c90 derailleur. Not saying that it's not rad and I do love the repairability... but c90 is really good and for me, it's been rock solid reliable.
So if you haven't had any problems with the lack of limit screws or b-tension adjustment, why do you think you're not having problems configuring Eagle...
So if you haven't had any problems with the lack of limit screws or b-tension adjustment, why do you think you're not having problems configuring Eagle 90 and other people are?
Possible theory #1: All of the alignment problems people are describing are actually cassette tolerance problems that would be fixed by doing a warranty replacement of the cassette?
Possible theory #2: People aren't setting up the derailleur correctly during the very unusual Transmission red alignment cog/"B-tension" step.
I think it depends on a few things... I have no doubt that transmission seems a bit more sensitive to tolerances being out of whack then other drivetrains.
Regarding theory #1 - Hub tolerance can impact shift quality. I had a cheap wheelset where the dimension from end cap to xd driver body dimension was slightly out of spec to what sram specified and it was a bear to get to shift properly. There was no doubt a run of gx cassette cassettes which had lateral runout issues and also some with 3rd cog narrow wide tooth profile issues.
Regarding your theory #2 It's very sensitive to chain length. With no b-tension screws, that's the only method. It takes a bit of experience of how hard to pull the derailleur cage backwards to simulate b-tension as well. I assume most people are being paranoid about chain length and checking appropriately, so my guess it has to do taking the time to try pulling the derailleur cage backwards by different amounts to validate what works best and then over torquing the hell out of the derailleur bolt so that it does not loosen/move (which it will if you only tighten to sram spec)
It's easy to count the setup cog wrong and set the thing up in the wrong cog on the cassette. I have to re-check my understanding of how they count the cogs every time because it's not intuitive to me.
I have run these things with both 52 and 55 chainlines and haven't found that one is better than the other. I have honestly had just as many warranty issue with both shimano 12 speed drivetrains and sram eagle drivetrains in my ownership of them as I have had with transmission. From my experience, I can't say that there is a faultless drivetrain group out there that is perfect 100% of the time... seems like drivetrain components are like brakes... very highly depending on machining/forging tolerances and plenty of room for us primates to feel passionate about the justifications for our believies.
For me it's that I've never had a problem getting X01 and XX1 mechanical Eagle DRs to shift perfectly, and all the T-type DRs are much...
For me it's that I've never had a problem getting X01 and XX1 mechanical Eagle DRs to shift perfectly, and all the T-type DRs are much larger and heavier. I still prefer mechanical, as am one of the few that prefers a grip shift instead of a trigger, and again, the size and weight.
I suspect our opinions on importance of weight and size may differ slightly, hence the username
Absolutely, different people are looking for different things here, that's why I included the "For me" bit.
I'm a little curious though, a lot of people here have been complaining about unwanted unsprung mass on the rear axle and its effect on suspension performance, as well as issues with bashing DRs into jank on the trail. The C90 DR is an added 121 grams bolted to the rear axle and hangs considerably closer to the jank. The Electric T-Type DRs are even heavier. Is there a point where the DR gets big enough and heavy enough that any robustness it offers is negated by the added size and weight?
Has anyone watched Kilian Bron's 2026 Megavalanche video? There's an interesting moment while they are still in the snowy bit where a fellow competitor has a belt derail that takes him out of the running. How difficult is it to derail a belt?
And just like that, I've just learned that being able to switch between 30T and 32T charrings without having to faff with chain length is also one of the many benefits of the Jab over Transmission. Looking at where the drivetrains of SRAM and Shimano have been going lately, Madrone's timing could not have been any better.
Ridden enough 12 speed stuff that I’ve “downgraded” to XT 11 speed on one bike and X01/GX 11 speed on the other bike. These days my ego can deal with going 2 teeth smaller on the chain ring. If I still had the legs for it I would scrape together 10 speed XTR again….
No issues with c90 that aren't typical to transmission (cassette warranty issues). I have several t-type drivetrains in the fleet of bikes between my wife and...
No issues with c90 that aren't typical to transmission (cassette warranty issues). I have several t-type drivetrains in the fleet of bikes between my wife and I... they are all just as reliable as xo mechanical eagle was. C90 can use a better shifter for sure to feel premium... but shift quality and reliability are inline with what I have come to expect from sram and other than keeping an existing bike on eagle and replacing wear items... I have no reason to not use transmission going forward. I do not miss limit screws or b-tension bolts that self adjust with bikes that have more extreme rearward axle paths and once you get used to being able to shift under load, going back to eagle feels like a limiting factor in certain situations.
For certain applications, c90 is now preferred for me. I prefer it on my enduro/park bike because I can dump gears faster and I can still replace a cage when I abuse it and break stuff. The madrone is a nice looking piece but not without a few quirks along the way and it's 100 dollars more than a c90 derailleur. Not saying that it's not rad and I do love the repairability... but c90 is really good and for me, it's been rock solid reliable.
So if you haven't had any problems with the lack of limit screws or b-tension adjustment, why do you think you're not having problems configuring Eagle...
So if you haven't had any problems with the lack of limit screws or b-tension adjustment, why do you think you're not having problems configuring Eagle 90 and other people are?
Possible theory #1: All of the alignment problems people are describing are actually cassette tolerance problems that would be fixed by doing a warranty replacement of the cassette?
Possible theory #2: People aren't setting up the derailleur correctly during the very unusual Transmission red alignment cog/"B-tension" step.
We’ve had several cassettes be issues. One was my personal bike, drove myself crazy following and re-following the setup procedure. I swapped for a different cassette off one of our rentals and the issue with the 3rd cog resolved with no adjustment and the issue started on the rental. SRAM warrantied no questions. New cassette has been trouble free. Customer bikes have had the same deal.
I personally prefer 90 over the zert-zert options because tension lets you micro adjust on the fly. In either case since the cassette is the backbone on transmission if the cassette is buggered so are you.
Lack of limits hasn’t been a problem yet but I do wonder how things are with some brands that have had a history of quality control issues/excessive frame flex.
B tension isn’t super adjustable but you can def go a little harder than recommended which I think helps. Easy to do in the stand but could be a pain in the field, make sure your kit has an 8mm
No issues with c90 that aren't typical to transmission (cassette warranty issues). I have several t-type drivetrains in the fleet of bikes between my wife and...
No issues with c90 that aren't typical to transmission (cassette warranty issues). I have several t-type drivetrains in the fleet of bikes between my wife and I... they are all just as reliable as xo mechanical eagle was. C90 can use a better shifter for sure to feel premium... but shift quality and reliability are inline with what I have come to expect from sram and other than keeping an existing bike on eagle and replacing wear items... I have no reason to not use transmission going forward. I do not miss limit screws or b-tension bolts that self adjust with bikes that have more extreme rearward axle paths and once you get used to being able to shift under load, going back to eagle feels like a limiting factor in certain situations.
For certain applications, c90 is now preferred for me. I prefer it on my enduro/park bike because I can dump gears faster and I can still replace a cage when I abuse it and break stuff. The madrone is a nice looking piece but not without a few quirks along the way and it's 100 dollars more than a c90 derailleur. Not saying that it's not rad and I do love the repairability... but c90 is really good and for me, it's been rock solid reliable.
What issues with the jab are you talking about? Just curious, I have one of the first ones made and have yet to add any of the “enhancements” but I still love the way it shifts, with the UDH brace, haven’t run it without…
It’s pretty rad in my opinion that every time they come up with something to make it better they offer the upgrades at a significantly reduced price for current owners, free would be better but it’s a small price to pay for a small outfit that I want to support and see succeed in the long run.
I remember back when I first started riding that you had shimano and that was pretty much it. SRAM was not much more than a me too company that was differentiated with grip shift. The woody proto derailleur was cool looking though.
No issues with c90 that aren't typical to transmission (cassette warranty issues). I have several t-type drivetrains in the fleet of bikes between my wife and...
No issues with c90 that aren't typical to transmission (cassette warranty issues). I have several t-type drivetrains in the fleet of bikes between my wife and I... they are all just as reliable as xo mechanical eagle was. C90 can use a better shifter for sure to feel premium... but shift quality and reliability are inline with what I have come to expect from sram and other than keeping an existing bike on eagle and replacing wear items... I have no reason to not use transmission going forward. I do not miss limit screws or b-tension bolts that self adjust with bikes that have more extreme rearward axle paths and once you get used to being able to shift under load, going back to eagle feels like a limiting factor in certain situations.
For certain applications, c90 is now preferred for me. I prefer it on my enduro/park bike because I can dump gears faster and I can still replace a cage when I abuse it and break stuff. The madrone is a nice looking piece but not without a few quirks along the way and it's 100 dollars more than a c90 derailleur. Not saying that it's not rad and I do love the repairability... but c90 is really good and for me, it's been rock solid reliable.
What issues with the jab are you talking about? Just curious, I have one of the first ones made and have yet to add any of...
What issues with the jab are you talking about? Just curious, I have one of the first ones made and have yet to add any of the “enhancements” but I still love the way it shifts, with the UDH brace, haven’t run it without…
It’s pretty rad in my opinion that every time they come up with something to make it better they offer the upgrades at a significantly reduced price for current owners, free would be better but it’s a small price to pay for a small outfit that I want to support and see succeed in the long run.
I remember back when I first started riding that you had shimano and that was pretty much it. SRAM was not much more than a me too company that was differentiated with grip shift. The woody proto derailleur was cool looking though.
And just like that, I've just learned that being able to switch between 30T and 32T charrings without having to faff with chain length is also...
And just like that, I've just learned that being able to switch between 30T and 32T charrings without having to faff with chain length is also one of the many benefits of the Jab over Transmission. Looking at where the drivetrains of SRAM and Shimano have been going lately, Madrone's timing could not have been any better.
Depending on where your chain stay length falls you don’t have to change chain length between a step up or down with transmission. T-Type Specs
No issues with c90 that aren't typical to transmission (cassette warranty issues). I have several t-type drivetrains in the fleet of bikes between my wife and...
No issues with c90 that aren't typical to transmission (cassette warranty issues). I have several t-type drivetrains in the fleet of bikes between my wife and I... they are all just as reliable as xo mechanical eagle was. C90 can use a better shifter for sure to feel premium... but shift quality and reliability are inline with what I have come to expect from sram and other than keeping an existing bike on eagle and replacing wear items... I have no reason to not use transmission going forward. I do not miss limit screws or b-tension bolts that self adjust with bikes that have more extreme rearward axle paths and once you get used to being able to shift under load, going back to eagle feels like a limiting factor in certain situations.
For certain applications, c90 is now preferred for me. I prefer it on my enduro/park bike because I can dump gears faster and I can still replace a cage when I abuse it and break stuff. The madrone is a nice looking piece but not without a few quirks along the way and it's 100 dollars more than a c90 derailleur. Not saying that it's not rad and I do love the repairability... but c90 is really good and for me, it's been rock solid reliable.
What issues with the jab are you talking about? Just curious, I have one of the first ones made and have yet to add any of...
What issues with the jab are you talking about? Just curious, I have one of the first ones made and have yet to add any of the “enhancements” but I still love the way it shifts, with the UDH brace, haven’t run it without…
It’s pretty rad in my opinion that every time they come up with something to make it better they offer the upgrades at a significantly reduced price for current owners, free would be better but it’s a small price to pay for a small outfit that I want to support and see succeed in the long run.
I remember back when I first started riding that you had shimano and that was pretty much it. SRAM was not much more than a me too company that was differentiated with grip shift. The woody proto derailleur was cool looking though.
Shots fired lol, granted there’s a lot of stuff I “hate” but haven’t owned, just been the poor sap that works on all of my buddy’s bikes so I get to deal with it like I own it 😂. Lewis brakes for example lol.
Has anyone watched Kilian Bron's 2026 Megavalanche video? There's an interesting moment while they are still in the snowy bit where a fellow competitor has a...
Has anyone watched Kilian Bron's 2026 Megavalanche video? There's an interesting moment while they are still in the snowy bit where a fellow competitor has a belt derail that takes him out of the running. How difficult is it to derail a belt?
Based on all the problems Gates teams are going through to prevent that from happening in the mud (custom covers and similar, apparently not hard.
Maybe an important thing to notr here. Belt tensioners in cars are pretty strong if I'm not mistaken. Gates belt drives were also primarily seen in hardtail applications where you tension it by moving the rear axle (or BB ) ala single speed chains without tensioners. If you have a full suspension bike with a changing chainstay length, you'll need a pulley that won't pull too hard to enable free suspension movement. Maybe that tension is not quite high enough to prevent the belt from derailing on a stone getting caught between the belt and the sprocket?
Ridden enough 12 speed stuff that I’ve “downgraded” to XT 11 speed on one bike and X01/GX 11 speed on the other bike. These days my...
Ridden enough 12 speed stuff that I’ve “downgraded” to XT 11 speed on one bike and X01/GX 11 speed on the other bike. These days my ego can deal with going 2 teeth smaller on the chain ring. If I still had the legs for it I would scrape together 10 speed XTR again….
If your terrain supports it it's a valid choice. There's a lot of terrain out there where the chainrings aren't small enough and 2 teeth less is not enough to cover the missing 50+T dinner plate though... It's kind of like not having a granny gear on a 3x system and making the middle ring just a few teeth smaller to compensate.
Razor thin margin in how it shifts better under load
No better at controlling chain slap (I'd argue this is bike-dependent anyway)
More complex to set up
More than enough reasons to justify my purchase of extra X01 DRs and shifters, although these things are bombproof so who knows when I'll tap into them.
No issues with c90 that aren't typical to transmission (cassette warranty issues). I have several t-type drivetrains in the fleet of bikes between my wife and...
No issues with c90 that aren't typical to transmission (cassette warranty issues). I have several t-type drivetrains in the fleet of bikes between my wife and I... they are all just as reliable as xo mechanical eagle was. C90 can use a better shifter for sure to feel premium... but shift quality and reliability are inline with what I have come to expect from sram and other than keeping an existing bike on eagle and replacing wear items... I have no reason to not use transmission going forward. I do not miss limit screws or b-tension bolts that self adjust with bikes that have more extreme rearward axle paths and once you get used to being able to shift under load, going back to eagle feels like a limiting factor in certain situations.
For certain applications, c90 is now preferred for me. I prefer it on my enduro/park bike because I can dump gears faster and I can still replace a cage when I abuse it and break stuff. The madrone is a nice looking piece but not without a few quirks along the way and it's 100 dollars more than a c90 derailleur. Not saying that it's not rad and I do love the repairability... but c90 is really good and for me, it's been rock solid reliable.
So if you haven't had any problems with the lack of limit screws or b-tension adjustment, why do you think you're not having problems configuring Eagle...
So if you haven't had any problems with the lack of limit screws or b-tension adjustment, why do you think you're not having problems configuring Eagle 90 and other people are?
Possible theory #1: All of the alignment problems people are describing are actually cassette tolerance problems that would be fixed by doing a warranty replacement of the cassette?
Possible theory #2: People aren't setting up the derailleur correctly during the very unusual Transmission red alignment cog/"B-tension" step.
I'm not sure if it's a cassette issue. I had a full XX AXS drivetrain on a Ripmo V3 that shifted perfectly. Later I swapped only the shifter and derailleur to 90 and had shifting issues since. I'm using the ecact same XX cassette. It's like I cannot get the cable tension setup correctly. For example, it's either too tight in some areas of the cassette and if I then decrease the tension it's too loose in the other area of the cassette. It behaves like it has a bent hanger, however with T-Type there is no hanger. With this not point to tolerance issues with the 90 derailleur?
Has anyone watched Kilian Bron's 2026 Megavalanche video? There's an interesting moment while they are still in the snowy bit where a fellow competitor has a...
Has anyone watched Kilian Bron's 2026 Megavalanche video? There's an interesting moment while they are still in the snowy bit where a fellow competitor has a belt derail that takes him out of the running. How difficult is it to derail a belt?
Based on all the problems Gates teams are going through to prevent that from happening in the mud (custom covers and similar, apparently not hard.Maybe an...
Based on all the problems Gates teams are going through to prevent that from happening in the mud (custom covers and similar, apparently not hard.
Maybe an important thing to notr here. Belt tensioners in cars are pretty strong if I'm not mistaken. Gates belt drives were also primarily seen in hardtail applications where you tension it by moving the rear axle (or BB ) ala single speed chains without tensioners. If you have a full suspension bike with a changing chainstay length, you'll need a pulley that won't pull too hard to enable free suspension movement. Maybe that tension is not quite high enough to prevent the belt from derailing on a stone getting caught between the belt and the sprocket?
I've had my belt come of a few times in 2 years of general riding without "extreme" mud conditions. All were due to sticks kicking up and lodging between the belt and rear cog. I can see how a bunch of thick mud can buildup from coasting downhill and derail it.
I honestly think that if the Gates sponsorships weren't happening the gearbox bikes would be chain drive, or switch over to chain drive when the going gets muddy. The belt is very quiet and smooth in non-extreme conditions but no denying the chain is a better option for ultra slop.
No issues with c90 that aren't typical to transmission (cassette warranty issues). I have several t-type drivetrains in the fleet of bikes between my wife and...
No issues with c90 that aren't typical to transmission (cassette warranty issues). I have several t-type drivetrains in the fleet of bikes between my wife and I... they are all just as reliable as xo mechanical eagle was. C90 can use a better shifter for sure to feel premium... but shift quality and reliability are inline with what I have come to expect from sram and other than keeping an existing bike on eagle and replacing wear items... I have no reason to not use transmission going forward. I do not miss limit screws or b-tension bolts that self adjust with bikes that have more extreme rearward axle paths and once you get used to being able to shift under load, going back to eagle feels like a limiting factor in certain situations.
For certain applications, c90 is now preferred for me. I prefer it on my enduro/park bike because I can dump gears faster and I can still replace a cage when I abuse it and break stuff. The madrone is a nice looking piece but not without a few quirks along the way and it's 100 dollars more than a c90 derailleur. Not saying that it's not rad and I do love the repairability... but c90 is really good and for me, it's been rock solid reliable.
What issues with the jab are you talking about? Just curious, I have one of the first ones made and have yet to add any of...
What issues with the jab are you talking about? Just curious, I have one of the first ones made and have yet to add any of the “enhancements” but I still love the way it shifts, with the UDH brace, haven’t run it without…
It’s pretty rad in my opinion that every time they come up with something to make it better they offer the upgrades at a significantly reduced price for current owners, free would be better but it’s a small price to pay for a small outfit that I want to support and see succeed in the long run.
I remember back when I first started riding that you had shimano and that was pretty much it. SRAM was not much more than a me too company that was differentiated with grip shift. The woody proto derailleur was cool looking though.
I have one on my gravel bike which is setup with the ratio mod, it is not a good example of the mtb application for this derailleur as it has the gravel clutch and isn't being driven by a mtb shifter... There is a member of my riding crew, whose bike I end up servicing that has had some struggles with his. To be fair, his was one of the first run of derailleurs and we were chasing issues with pretty stiff shifting effort (he's using an x01 shifter). We also converted his to the bearing pivots, but in that process we found that he had tweaked something, so the derailleur got sent off to madrone. To be fair, they have been excellent to deal with and super fast with regards to turnaround time. The fact that it can be adjusted to your liking and serviced piece by piece is rad... but it's certainly something reserved for an experienced consumer and not something that if you don't do your own work, is the best idea. It's great that parts are replaceable, and that the clutch is adjustable, but the parts are a few days away when something goes wrong. It's mostly good now it seems, but there are a few spots in the cassette that seem a little slow to me.
One thing that neither he, nor I considered, is that once he sent it off to madrone, we were left with a transmission cassette, an eagle shifter and a non-udh frame. So, while I think the madrone is rad, it's one of those situations where you've backed yourself into a corner with a cool, if not slightly kooky setup that you certainly can't (easily) roll into a bike shop with a non-functioning setup and walk out with a functioning setup 150 bucks later.
Ridden enough 12 speed stuff that I’ve “downgraded” to XT 11 speed on one bike and X01/GX 11 speed on the other bike. These days my...
Ridden enough 12 speed stuff that I’ve “downgraded” to XT 11 speed on one bike and X01/GX 11 speed on the other bike. These days my ego can deal with going 2 teeth smaller on the chain ring. If I still had the legs for it I would scrape together 10 speed XTR again….
If your terrain supports it it's a valid choice. There's a lot of terrain out there where the chainrings aren't small enough and 2 teeth less...
If your terrain supports it it's a valid choice. There's a lot of terrain out there where the chainrings aren't small enough and 2 teeth less is not enough to cover the missing 50+T dinner plate though... It's kind of like not having a granny gear on a 3x system and making the middle ring just a few teeth smaller to compensate.
32/52 is .6154 and 28/46 is .6087 so if it’s a climbing thing and not a spinning out at top speed thing, 11 versus 12 speed doesn’t really matter (talking Shimano and SRAM here). Both of those are far easier to pedal than the old school 3x10 granny gear 24/36 combo that is .6667 which is also 28/42 11 speed.
Personally I’m happy to go back to 11 and have shorter cage that doesn’t bounce around as much and isn’t as susceptible to sucking up every other stick on the trail.
For those of you unhappy with 90, would you rather have gx t type given all the issues, or is the Jab the only solution? My X01 eagle is still working great and will continue to for a long time, but every bike I've pedaled with eagle 90 felt reasonably good.
For me it's that I've never had a problem getting X01 and XX1 mechanical Eagle DRs to shift perfectly, and all the T-type DRs are much larger and heavier. I still prefer mechanical, as am one of the few that prefers a grip shift instead of a trigger, and again, the size and weight.
+1, My jab makes everything from Sram, Shimano & TRP feel cheap and poorly made. Waiting on the silver cage DH version to drop so I can nab one for the big bike. I'm at the point where an XO or XT rear mech would be pretty well worked over from rock strikes and general wear and tear and start losing that crisp shifting yet the jab is just as slop free as the day I mounted it on the first bike despite having been slammed into rocks with little regard for its durability. It's been over a year and it has already paid for itself.
Waiting on that shifter coming sooner rather than later.
Just checked out the full Madrone lineup. Damn, their stuff looks good! Full mix-and-match potential for maximum bike nerding.
Cooking up ideas for the e-bike... 11 speed X0 cassette I have laying around, Madrone with the stiffener bracket and short cage. Mmmmm.
I suspect our opinions on importance of weight and size may differ slightly, hence the username
No issues with c90 that aren't typical to transmission (cassette warranty issues). I have several t-type drivetrains in the fleet of bikes between my wife and I... they are all just as reliable as xo mechanical eagle was. C90 can use a better shifter for sure to feel premium... but shift quality and reliability are inline with what I have come to expect from sram and other than keeping an existing bike on eagle and replacing wear items... I have no reason to not use transmission going forward. I do not miss limit screws or b-tension bolts that self adjust with bikes that have more extreme rearward axle paths and once you get used to being able to shift under load, going back to eagle feels like a limiting factor in certain situations.
For certain applications, c90 is now preferred for me. I prefer it on my enduro/park bike because I can dump gears faster and I can still replace a cage when I abuse it and break stuff. The madrone is a nice looking piece but not without a few quirks along the way and it's 100 dollars more than a c90 derailleur. Not saying that it's not rad and I do love the repairability... but c90 is really good and for me, it's been rock solid reliable.
So if you haven't had any problems with the lack of limit screws or b-tension adjustment, why do you think you're not having problems configuring Eagle 90 and other people are?
Possible theory #1: All of the alignment problems people are describing are actually cassette tolerance problems that would be fixed by doing a warranty replacement of the cassette?
Possible theory #2: People aren't setting up the derailleur correctly during the very unusual Transmission red alignment cog/"B-tension" step.
I think it depends on a few things... I have no doubt that transmission seems a bit more sensitive to tolerances being out of whack then other drivetrains.
Regarding theory #1 - Hub tolerance can impact shift quality. I had a cheap wheelset where the dimension from end cap to xd driver body dimension was slightly out of spec to what sram specified and it was a bear to get to shift properly. There was no doubt a run of gx cassette cassettes which had lateral runout issues and also some with 3rd cog narrow wide tooth profile issues.
Regarding your theory #2 It's very sensitive to chain length. With no b-tension screws, that's the only method. It takes a bit of experience of how hard to pull the derailleur cage backwards to simulate b-tension as well. I assume most people are being paranoid about chain length and checking appropriately, so my guess it has to do taking the time to try pulling the derailleur cage backwards by different amounts to validate what works best and then over torquing the hell out of the derailleur bolt so that it does not loosen/move (which it will if you only tighten to sram spec)
It's easy to count the setup cog wrong and set the thing up in the wrong cog on the cassette. I have to re-check my understanding of how they count the cogs every time because it's not intuitive to me.
I have run these things with both 52 and 55 chainlines and haven't found that one is better than the other. I have honestly had just as many warranty issue with both shimano 12 speed drivetrains and sram eagle drivetrains in my ownership of them as I have had with transmission. From my experience, I can't say that there is a faultless drivetrain group out there that is perfect 100% of the time... seems like drivetrain components are like brakes... very highly depending on machining/forging tolerances and plenty of room for us primates to feel passionate about the justifications for our believies.
Absolutely, different people are looking for different things here, that's why I included the "For me" bit.
I'm a little curious though, a lot of people here have been complaining about unwanted unsprung mass on the rear axle and its effect on suspension performance, as well as issues with bashing DRs into jank on the trail. The C90 DR is an added 121 grams bolted to the rear axle and hangs considerably closer to the jank. The Electric T-Type DRs are even heavier. Is there a point where the DR gets big enough and heavy enough that any robustness it offers is negated by the added size and weight?
Has anyone watched Kilian Bron's 2026 Megavalanche video? There's an interesting moment while they are still in the snowy bit where a fellow competitor has a belt derail that takes him out of the running. How difficult is it to derail a belt?
And just like that, I've just learned that being able to switch between 30T and 32T charrings without having to faff with chain length is also one of the many benefits of the Jab over Transmission. Looking at where the drivetrains of SRAM and Shimano have been going lately, Madrone's timing could not have been any better.
Ridden enough 12 speed stuff that I’ve “downgraded” to XT 11 speed on one bike and X01/GX 11 speed on the other bike. These days my ego can deal with going 2 teeth smaller on the chain ring. If I still had the legs for it I would scrape together 10 speed XTR again….
We’ve had several cassettes be issues. One was my personal bike, drove myself crazy following and re-following the setup procedure. I swapped for a different cassette off one of our rentals and the issue with the 3rd cog resolved with no adjustment and the issue started on the rental. SRAM warrantied no questions. New cassette has been trouble free. Customer bikes have had the same deal.
I personally prefer 90 over the zert-zert options because tension lets you micro adjust on the fly. In either case since the cassette is the backbone on transmission if the cassette is buggered so are you.
Lack of limits hasn’t been a problem yet but I do wonder how things are with some brands that have had a history of quality control issues/excessive frame flex.
B tension isn’t super adjustable but you can def go a little harder than recommended which I think helps. Easy to do in the stand but could be a pain in the field, make sure your kit has an 8mm
What issues with the jab are you talking about? Just curious, I have one of the first ones made and have yet to add any of the “enhancements” but I still love the way it shifts, with the UDH brace, haven’t run it without…
It’s pretty rad in my opinion that every time they come up with something to make it better they offer the upgrades at a significantly reduced price for current owners, free would be better but it’s a small price to pay for a small outfit that I want to support and see succeed in the long run.
I remember back when I first started riding that you had shimano and that was pretty much it. SRAM was not much more than a me too company that was differentiated with grip shift. The woody proto derailleur was cool looking though.
I bet he does not own a Jab.
Depending on where your chain stay length falls you don’t have to change chain length between a step up or down with transmission. T-Type Specs
Shots fired lol, granted there’s a lot of stuff I “hate” but haven’t owned, just been the poor sap that works on all of my buddy’s bikes so I get to deal with it like I own it 😂. Lewis brakes for example lol.
Based on all the problems Gates teams are going through to prevent that from happening in the mud (custom covers and similar, apparently not hard.
Maybe an important thing to notr here. Belt tensioners in cars are pretty strong if I'm not mistaken. Gates belt drives were also primarily seen in hardtail applications where you tension it by moving the rear axle (or BB ) ala single speed chains without tensioners. If you have a full suspension bike with a changing chainstay length, you'll need a pulley that won't pull too hard to enable free suspension movement. Maybe that tension is not quite high enough to prevent the belt from derailing on a stone getting caught between the belt and the sprocket?
If your terrain supports it it's a valid choice. There's a lot of terrain out there where the chainrings aren't small enough and 2 teeth less is not enough to cover the missing 50+T dinner plate though... It's kind of like not having a granny gear on a 3x system and making the middle ring just a few teeth smaller to compensate.
Eagle 90:
More than enough reasons to justify my purchase of extra X01 DRs and shifters, although these things are bombproof so who knows when I'll tap into them.
I would just like to call out the fact that 100% of the 6 mens elite world cups so far have been won on 148 rear ends.
I'm not sure if it's a cassette issue. I had a full XX AXS drivetrain on a Ripmo V3 that shifted perfectly. Later I swapped only the shifter and derailleur to 90 and had shifting issues since. I'm using the ecact same XX cassette. It's like I cannot get the cable tension setup correctly. For example, it's either too tight in some areas of the cassette and if I then decrease the tension it's too loose in the other area of the cassette. It behaves like it has a bent hanger, however with T-Type there is no hanger. With this not point to tolerance issues with the 90 derailleur?
I've had my belt come of a few times in 2 years of general riding without "extreme" mud conditions. All were due to sticks kicking up and lodging between the belt and rear cog. I can see how a bunch of thick mud can buildup from coasting downhill and derail it.
I honestly think that if the Gates sponsorships weren't happening the gearbox bikes would be chain drive, or switch over to chain drive when the going gets muddy. The belt is very quiet and smooth in non-extreme conditions but no denying the chain is a better option for ultra slop.
I have one on my gravel bike which is setup with the ratio mod, it is not a good example of the mtb application for this derailleur as it has the gravel clutch and isn't being driven by a mtb shifter... There is a member of my riding crew, whose bike I end up servicing that has had some struggles with his. To be fair, his was one of the first run of derailleurs and we were chasing issues with pretty stiff shifting effort (he's using an x01 shifter). We also converted his to the bearing pivots, but in that process we found that he had tweaked something, so the derailleur got sent off to madrone. To be fair, they have been excellent to deal with and super fast with regards to turnaround time. The fact that it can be adjusted to your liking and serviced piece by piece is rad... but it's certainly something reserved for an experienced consumer and not something that if you don't do your own work, is the best idea. It's great that parts are replaceable, and that the clutch is adjustable, but the parts are a few days away when something goes wrong. It's mostly good now it seems, but there are a few spots in the cassette that seem a little slow to me.
One thing that neither he, nor I considered, is that once he sent it off to madrone, we were left with a transmission cassette, an eagle shifter and a non-udh frame. So, while I think the madrone is rad, it's one of those situations where you've backed yourself into a corner with a cool, if not slightly kooky setup that you certainly can't (easily) roll into a bike shop with a non-functioning setup and walk out with a functioning setup 150 bucks later.
32/52 is .6154 and 28/46 is .6087 so if it’s a climbing thing and not a spinning out at top speed thing, 11 versus 12 speed doesn’t really matter (talking Shimano and SRAM here). Both of those are far easier to pedal than the old school 3x10 granny gear 24/36 combo that is .6667 which is also 28/42 11 speed.
Personally I’m happy to go back to 11 and have shorter cage that doesn’t bounce around as much and isn’t as susceptible to sucking up every other stick on the trail.
I just wish the Box Prime9 groupset made it to market.
So who's going to post the two Trek 32" bikes from the B2B site?
don't want anyone to puke by seeing them 🤮
Heard through the grapevine that there will be new Levo builds coming out later this summer with Rockshox genie shocks 🤔
Trek 32" bikes are 2028's and there is an embargo till January. But shop guys can get them in September. So far just computer generated pics
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