Haven't seen them in the flesh but the outer side has inconsistent flatness with more wear on the areas away from the holes, and the inner side has inconsistent flatness with more wear right next to the holes. Looks like a stamped rotor from here.
IMO people are right to be concerned as to whether or not these are stamped. With as tight of tolerances as modern brakes have between pads and rotors, even tiny wobbles in the rotors will cause rub. Warped rotors can also cause the brake to feel squishy unless you manage to center the caliper over the average deflection (otherwise one side of pistons will engage before the others). There's plenty of other companies selling laser cut rotors in the ~$65 range, so no reason why a premium brand should be selling stamped rotors these days.
stamped rubbish for the same price as a hs2?and $10 cheaper than the Really good TRP r5 rotor...... Much like apple users... shimano fanboys will lap this...
stamped rubbish for the same price as a hs2? and $10 cheaper than the Really good TRP r5 rotor......
Much like apple users... shimano fanboys will lap this up.
I've been running TRP RS01E (40 euros per piece) in 223mm size with Saint calipers and will never look back to Shimano despite whatever they bring up as a brake disc.
Manufactures official compatibility and it works in real work have never been the same thing.
Indeed, but I’m not working for Shimano, and I’ve installed 2.3mm rotors on plenty of Shimano, maguras and other “incompatible” brakes to know that they work with no problems
Interesting the 1.8mm rotors have a 1.5mm minimum thickness and the new 2.2mm still have a 1.5mm minimum also.
I replaced an old Shimano rotor on my wife's bike today, no way was it near 1.5mm but is was pretty concave, makes it hard to bed in a new set of pads to match the rotor profile. A 2.2 rotor getting close to 1.5 minimum and throwing pads at it would have to be less than optimal
Interesting the 1.8mm rotors have a 1.5mm minimum thickness and the new 2.2mm still have a 1.5mm minimum also. I replaced an old Shimano rotor on my...
Interesting the 1.8mm rotors have a 1.5mm minimum thickness and the new 2.2mm still have a 1.5mm minimum also.
I replaced an old Shimano rotor on my wife's bike today, no way was it near 1.5mm but is was pretty concave, makes it hard to bed in a new set of pads to match the rotor profile. A 2.2 rotor getting close to 1.5 minimum and throwing pads at it would have to be less than optimal
Leaves room to lap them yourself so they're flat...
Honest question: Why do y'all hate stamped rotors so much?
Not saying you're wrong, because honestly I haven't used a stamped brake rotor in a long long time, or maybe ever. Just curious for more info. Here are the possible theories I can think of, and I'm curious what y'all think:
A) Stamped rotors are more likely to be warped than laser cut rotors, either because of extreme heat or because they're just more likely to be warped out of the box.
B] Stamping creates punch distortion, which creates an un-level and uneven braking surface that pulses, vibrates, creates uneven pad contact, and/or accelerates pad wear.
C) Stamping requires using a softer, different, or otherwise worse brake rotor material.
B - I'm extremely picky about eliminating brake rub and keeping rotors true for an even, vibration-free braking surface. I hate squeals and honks from brakes. Even among different laser cut rotors, I find the ones that are truer out of the box result in more consistent and quiet performance over the life of the rotor. Rotors that I've had to spend a lot of time truing out of the box need more attention more frequently to keep true. I can't see how stamping a rotor would make them truer out of the box - if anything, the opposite seems more plausible.
B - I'm extremely picky about eliminating brake rub and keeping rotors true for an even, vibration-free braking surface. I hate squeals and honks from brakes...
B - I'm extremely picky about eliminating brake rub and keeping rotors true for an even, vibration-free braking surface. I hate squeals and honks from brakes. Even among different laser cut rotors, I find the ones that are truer out of the box result in more consistent and quiet performance over the life of the rotor. Rotors that I've had to spend a lot of time truing out of the box need more attention more frequently to keep true. I can't see how stamping a rotor would make them truer out of the box - if anything, the opposite seems more plausible.
So to me, that sounds more like what I was trying to describe in option A, not option B.
With B, I'm referring to an uneven rotor surface where there is flaring and distortion specifically around the punch holes, not a rotor that's out of true. With B, I'm describing a possible uneven rotor surface that could create pulsing in your brake finger as the pads have to go up and down over and over again to rise and fall over the little imperfections when you're reefing on the brakes. I don't know if that's a real thing with stamped rotors, but it's something I've read other people say, so I'm asking the peanut gallery to test whether that's a real thing or not.
I went back and rephrased option A to more generally refer to warping, not just warping under extreme heat. But to be clear, I agree that rotors out of true cause tons of brake feel problems, and excess heat. I work really hard to keep all my rotors straight for that exact reason. I can definitely feel the difference.
B - I'm extremely picky about eliminating brake rub and keeping rotors true for an even, vibration-free braking surface. I hate squeals and honks from brakes...
B - I'm extremely picky about eliminating brake rub and keeping rotors true for an even, vibration-free braking surface. I hate squeals and honks from brakes. Even among different laser cut rotors, I find the ones that are truer out of the box result in more consistent and quiet performance over the life of the rotor. Rotors that I've had to spend a lot of time truing out of the box need more attention more frequently to keep true. I can't see how stamping a rotor would make them truer out of the box - if anything, the opposite seems more plausible.
So to me, that sounds more like what I was trying to describe in option A, not option B.With B, I'm referring to an uneven rotor...
So to me, that sounds more like what I was trying to describe in option A, not option B.
With B, I'm referring to an uneven rotor surface where there is flaring and distortion specifically around the punch holes, not a rotor that's out of true. With B, I'm describing a possible uneven rotor surface that could create pulsing in your brake finger as the pads have to go up and down over and over again to rise and fall over the little imperfections when you're reefing on the brakes. I don't know if that's a real thing with stamped rotors, but it's something I've read other people say, so I'm asking the peanut gallery to test whether that's a real thing or not.
I went back and rephrased option A to more generally refer to warping, not just warping under extreme heat. But to be clear, I agree that rotors out of true cause tons of brake feel problems, and excess heat. I work really hard to keep all my rotors straight for that exact reason. I can definitely feel the difference.
Yeah I mean specifically WRT warping from the manufacturing process. I have no doubt that stamped rotors get a quick grinder pass to clean up any flaring/distortion from the stamp. I just fail to see how something as violent as stamp cutting could not affect how warped the steel sheet is compared to laser cutting.
Honest question: Why do y'all hate stamped rotors so much?Not saying you're wrong, because honestly I haven't used a stamped brake rotor in a long long...
Honest question: Why do y'all hate stamped rotors so much?
Not saying you're wrong, because honestly I haven't used a stamped brake rotor in a long long time, or maybe ever. Just curious for more info. Here are the possible theories I can think of, and I'm curious what y'all think:
A) Stamped rotors are more likely to be warped than laser cut rotors, either because of extreme heat or because they're just more likely to be warped out of the box.
B] Stamping creates punch distortion, which creates an un-level and uneven braking surface that pulses, vibrates, creates uneven pad contact, and/or accelerates pad wear.
C) Stamping requires using a softer, different, or otherwise worse brake rotor material.
D) Something else.
E) All of the above.
B
D- can’t charge 60$ for stamped rotors when they’re not better than anything else laser cut and cheaper
Honest question: Why do y'all hate stamped rotors so much?Not saying you're wrong, because honestly I haven't used a stamped brake rotor in a long long...
Honest question: Why do y'all hate stamped rotors so much?
Not saying you're wrong, because honestly I haven't used a stamped brake rotor in a long long time, or maybe ever. Just curious for more info. Here are the possible theories I can think of, and I'm curious what y'all think:
A) Stamped rotors are more likely to be warped than laser cut rotors, either because of extreme heat or because they're just more likely to be warped out of the box.
B] Stamping creates punch distortion, which creates an un-level and uneven braking surface that pulses, vibrates, creates uneven pad contact, and/or accelerates pad wear.
C) Stamping requires using a softer, different, or otherwise worse brake rotor material.
Sharing some relevant bits from a text conversation with a friend of mine in the industry. They preferred to remain anonymous because they didn't want forum-dwellers mailing a bomb to their house:
"Food for thought on brake rotors. I think anyone who’s making rotors in volume is not laser cutting. The super rounded edges on shimano rotors appear to be a choice. I’d bet significant sums of money that smaller brands do laser cut rotors because it’s easily accessible. [i.e. laser cutting and/or machining is cheaper at low volumes than stamping] Stamping introduces stress but so does laser cutting. Both would require stress relief and grinding to be perfect. Honestly the chances of any surface with the aspect ratio of a 2 mm thick rotor staying flat when it’s held near the very center is very low.
For the record I’ve looked at SRAM, Hayes, and Magura rotors and all are stamped. At the end of the day I think it’s just a question of whether the care is taken to make a good brake rotor. You could do a terrible job with either. I think people associate stamping with skipping steps to make a cheap rotor because that’s department store stuff."
Maybe I am just ok with mediocre braking but I have never had an issue with the stamped rotors. I have been on my current set for 2 years now and will probably need to replace the rear as it’s starting to get a bit on the thin side. No issues with power or warping but the 180mm with a dh casing tire and slowing my 230ish lbs down it was bound to wear out faster then the front which is in great shape still.
Sharing some relevant bits from a text conversation with a friend of mine in the industry. They preferred to remain anonymous because they didn't want forum-dwellers...
Sharing some relevant bits from a text conversation with a friend of mine in the industry. They preferred to remain anonymous because they didn't want forum-dwellers mailing a bomb to their house:
"Food for thought on brake rotors. I think anyone who’s making rotors in volume is not laser cutting. The super rounded edges on shimano rotors appear to be a choice. I’d bet significant sums of money that smaller brands do laser cut rotors because it’s easily accessible. [i.e. laser cutting and/or machining is cheaper at low volumes than stamping] Stamping introduces stress but so does laser cutting. Both would require stress relief and grinding to be perfect. Honestly the chances of any surface with the aspect ratio of a 2 mm thick rotor staying flat when it’s held near the very center is very low.
For the record I’ve looked at SRAM, Hayes, and Magura rotors and all are stamped. At the end of the day I think it’s just a question of whether the care is taken to make a good brake rotor. You could do a terrible job with either. I think people associate stamping with skipping steps to make a cheap rotor because that’s department store stuff."
That's a fair point and the uniformity of the rounded edge on the new rotors stood out to me. I don't know what difference it makes but I assume that the sharp edge on a properly faced rotor does a lot more to refresh the surface of the pad through use. Also to echo other sentiments here, if stamping is so much more efficient why are these ones still so expensive?
I should note however that I have some used Shimano RT64M rotors in a box of spares that clearly have a machined finish on the spokes, while the Hayes D-Series rotors I use now are definitely machined.
How much stress does laser cutting really introduce? The heating is localised and brief. Does anybody use water jets for this task or is it simply too slow?
I wonder if anyone has tried the cryogenically treated rotors. Supposed to help with warping (both out of the box because it's a stress relieving step) and during use. I've never heard of it used in bicycle rotors, but it's a thing for automotive rotors (mostly for track rat guys trying to extend rotor life, which is shockingly short in high hp cars these days (which are heavy and also eat tires like f'ing crazy)).
Sharing some relevant bits from a text conversation with a friend of mine in the industry. They preferred to remain anonymous because they didn't want forum-dwellers...
Sharing some relevant bits from a text conversation with a friend of mine in the industry. They preferred to remain anonymous because they didn't want forum-dwellers mailing a bomb to their house:
"Food for thought on brake rotors. I think anyone who’s making rotors in volume is not laser cutting. The super rounded edges on shimano rotors appear to be a choice. I’d bet significant sums of money that smaller brands do laser cut rotors because it’s easily accessible. [i.e. laser cutting and/or machining is cheaper at low volumes than stamping] Stamping introduces stress but so does laser cutting. Both would require stress relief and grinding to be perfect. Honestly the chances of any surface with the aspect ratio of a 2 mm thick rotor staying flat when it’s held near the very center is very low.
For the record I’ve looked at SRAM, Hayes, and Magura rotors and all are stamped. At the end of the day I think it’s just a question of whether the care is taken to make a good brake rotor. You could do a terrible job with either. I think people associate stamping with skipping steps to make a cheap rotor because that’s department store stuff."
I always lived under the impression most rotors are laser cut or something similar, made from a hard material in either case that doesn't enable a stamping process. Then Shimano came out with a rotor that was apparently stamped and was "resin pads only" because it was made from a material that was too soft to support metallic pads. Soft because it had to be soft to enable the stamping process.
I always assumed when people hate stamped rotors that this was the issue. I'm not against using stamping as a process even for "more expensive rotors", if the quality is there - laser cutting brings it's own set of challenges.
B - I'm extremely picky about eliminating brake rub and keeping rotors true for an even, vibration-free braking surface. I hate squeals and honks from brakes...
B - I'm extremely picky about eliminating brake rub and keeping rotors true for an even, vibration-free braking surface. I hate squeals and honks from brakes. Even among different laser cut rotors, I find the ones that are truer out of the box result in more consistent and quiet performance over the life of the rotor. Rotors that I've had to spend a lot of time truing out of the box need more attention more frequently to keep true. I can't see how stamping a rotor would make them truer out of the box - if anything, the opposite seems more plausible.
So to me, that sounds more like what I was trying to describe in option A, not option B.With B, I'm referring to an uneven rotor...
So to me, that sounds more like what I was trying to describe in option A, not option B.
With B, I'm referring to an uneven rotor surface where there is flaring and distortion specifically around the punch holes, not a rotor that's out of true. With B, I'm describing a possible uneven rotor surface that could create pulsing in your brake finger as the pads have to go up and down over and over again to rise and fall over the little imperfections when you're reefing on the brakes. I don't know if that's a real thing with stamped rotors, but it's something I've read other people say, so I'm asking the peanut gallery to test whether that's a real thing or not.
I went back and rephrased option A to more generally refer to warping, not just warping under extreme heat. But to be clear, I agree that rotors out of true cause tons of brake feel problems, and excess heat. I work really hard to keep all my rotors straight for that exact reason. I can definitely feel the difference.
For what it's worth, my experience with brake rotors is that Shimanos at all tiers have been the most consistently true out of the box. Sram has been the worst, including the HS2, out of the box and from heat on the bike, with Magura and tektro/TRP following right behind. This has been true for both after market and OEM stock rotors. The only rotors that have rivaled Shimano that I've seen have been Galfers and Hope,
Care in making a good product is the most important thing, and Shimano for all their faults do seem to care about making good products.
Do we have pictures of both sides?
Haven't seen them in the flesh but the outer side has inconsistent flatness with more wear on the areas away from the holes, and the inner side has inconsistent flatness with more wear right next to the holes. Looks like a stamped rotor from here.
IMO people are right to be concerned as to whether or not these are stamped. With as tight of tolerances as modern brakes have between pads and rotors, even tiny wobbles in the rotors will cause rub. Warped rotors can also cause the brake to feel squishy unless you manage to center the caliper over the average deflection (otherwise one side of pistons will engage before the others). There's plenty of other companies selling laser cut rotors in the ~$65 range, so no reason why a premium brand should be selling stamped rotors these days.
Says the guy in the all red kit lol. Look at meee
I've been running TRP RS01E (40 euros per piece) in 223mm size with Saint calipers and will never look back to Shimano despite whatever they bring up as a brake disc.
Manufactures official compatibility and it works in real work have never been the same thing.
Indeed, but I’m not working for Shimano, and I’ve installed 2.3mm rotors on plenty of Shimano, maguras and other “incompatible” brakes to know that they work with no problems
has anyone used these yet?
These arrived last week, haven't ridden. Def stamped. For comparison, I weighed an HS2 200mm rotor and it was 198g.
Eww
I can’t understand how they can justify such price for a low quality production item
yuck, stamped and overpriced. Shimano has lost the plot.
Interesting the 1.8mm rotors have a 1.5mm minimum thickness and the new 2.2mm still have a 1.5mm minimum also.
I replaced an old Shimano rotor on my wife's bike today, no way was it near 1.5mm but is was pretty concave, makes it hard to bed in a new set of pads to match the rotor profile. A 2.2 rotor getting close to 1.5 minimum and throwing pads at it would have to be less than optimal
Leaves room to lap them yourself so they're flat...
Honest question: Why do y'all hate stamped rotors so much?
Not saying you're wrong, because honestly I haven't used a stamped brake rotor in a long long time, or maybe ever. Just curious for more info. Here are the possible theories I can think of, and I'm curious what y'all think:
A) Stamped rotors are more likely to be warped than laser cut rotors, either because of extreme heat or because they're just more likely to be warped out of the box.
B] Stamping creates punch distortion, which creates an un-level and uneven braking surface that pulses, vibrates, creates uneven pad contact, and/or accelerates pad wear.
C) Stamping requires using a softer, different, or otherwise worse brake rotor material.
D) Something else.
E) All of the above.
B - I'm extremely picky about eliminating brake rub and keeping rotors true for an even, vibration-free braking surface. I hate squeals and honks from brakes. Even among different laser cut rotors, I find the ones that are truer out of the box result in more consistent and quiet performance over the life of the rotor. Rotors that I've had to spend a lot of time truing out of the box need more attention more frequently to keep true. I can't see how stamping a rotor would make them truer out of the box - if anything, the opposite seems more plausible.
So to me, that sounds more like what I was trying to describe in option A, not option B.
With B, I'm referring to an uneven rotor surface where there is flaring and distortion specifically around the punch holes, not a rotor that's out of true. With B, I'm describing a possible uneven rotor surface that could create pulsing in your brake finger as the pads have to go up and down over and over again to rise and fall over the little imperfections when you're reefing on the brakes. I don't know if that's a real thing with stamped rotors, but it's something I've read other people say, so I'm asking the peanut gallery to test whether that's a real thing or not.
I went back and rephrased option A to more generally refer to warping, not just warping under extreme heat. But to be clear, I agree that rotors out of true cause tons of brake feel problems, and excess heat. I work really hard to keep all my rotors straight for that exact reason. I can definitely feel the difference.
Yeah I mean specifically WRT warping from the manufacturing process. I have no doubt that stamped rotors get a quick grinder pass to clean up any flaring/distortion from the stamp. I just fail to see how something as violent as stamp cutting could not affect how warped the steel sheet is compared to laser cutting.
B
D- can’t charge 60$ for stamped rotors when they’re not better than anything else laser cut and cheaper
B, every bloody time
Sharing some relevant bits from a text conversation with a friend of mine in the industry. They preferred to remain anonymous because they didn't want forum-dwellers mailing a bomb to their house:
"Food for thought on brake rotors. I think anyone who’s making rotors in volume is not laser cutting. The super rounded edges on shimano rotors appear to be a choice. I’d bet significant sums of money that smaller brands do laser cut rotors because it’s easily accessible. [i.e. laser cutting and/or machining is cheaper at low volumes than stamping] Stamping introduces stress but so does laser cutting. Both would require stress relief and grinding to be perfect. Honestly the chances of any surface with the aspect ratio of a 2 mm thick rotor staying flat when it’s held near the very center is very low.
For the record I’ve looked at SRAM, Hayes, and Magura rotors and all are stamped. At the end of the day I think it’s just a question of whether the care is taken to make a good brake rotor. You could do a terrible job with either. I think people associate stamping with skipping steps to make a cheap rotor because that’s department store stuff."
Maybe I am just ok with mediocre braking but I have never had an issue with the stamped rotors. I have been on my current set for 2 years now and will probably need to replace the rear as it’s starting to get a bit on the thin side. No issues with power or warping but the 180mm with a dh casing tire and slowing my 230ish lbs down it was bound to wear out faster then the front which is in great shape still.
That's a fair point and the uniformity of the rounded edge on the new rotors stood out to me. I don't know what difference it makes but I assume that the sharp edge on a properly faced rotor does a lot more to refresh the surface of the pad through use. Also to echo other sentiments here, if stamping is so much more efficient why are these ones still so expensive?
I should note however that I have some used Shimano RT64M rotors in a box of spares that clearly have a machined finish on the spokes, while the Hayes D-Series rotors I use now are definitely machined.
How much stress does laser cutting really introduce? The heating is localised and brief. Does anybody use water jets for this task or is it simply too slow?
I wonder if anyone has tried the cryogenically treated rotors. Supposed to help with warping (both out of the box because it's a stress relieving step) and during use. I've never heard of it used in bicycle rotors, but it's a thing for automotive rotors (mostly for track rat guys trying to extend rotor life, which is shockingly short in high hp cars these days (which are heavy and also eat tires like f'ing crazy)).
https://www.dp-brakes.com/range/brakemonster-cryorotors/
I always lived under the impression most rotors are laser cut or something similar, made from a hard material in either case that doesn't enable a stamping process. Then Shimano came out with a rotor that was apparently stamped and was "resin pads only" because it was made from a material that was too soft to support metallic pads. Soft because it had to be soft to enable the stamping process.
I always assumed when people hate stamped rotors that this was the issue. I'm not against using stamping as a process even for "more expensive rotors", if the quality is there - laser cutting brings it's own set of challenges.
So in theory B and C, if they can't be mitigated.
For what it's worth, my experience with brake rotors is that Shimanos at all tiers have been the most consistently true out of the box. Sram has been the worst, including the HS2, out of the box and from heat on the bike, with Magura and tektro/TRP following right behind. This has been true for both after market and OEM stock rotors. The only rotors that have rivaled Shimano that I've seen have been Galfers and Hope,
Care in making a good product is the most important thing, and Shimano for all their faults do seem to care about making good products.
Post a reply to: Shimano Drops New 2.2mm Thick Rotors in 200/220mm Sizes - Thoughts?