AI in MTB Marketing

Primoz
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4539
Joined
8/1/2009
Location
SI
9/21/2025 12:36pm

On the topic of Google and how shitty the search results are, honest question, what to replace it with? I've tried DuckDuckGo, Quant and now trying out Brave and regardless of how in fact shitty Google has become, it is nevertheless still a lot more useful than any of the three I tried to replace it with.

4
boozed
Posts
654
Joined
6/11/2019
Location
AU
9/21/2025 3:47pm
Funny this thread just got bumped; I published my thoughts moments ago // Substack LinkIn short, I think the outdoor industry (and MTB specifically) is...

Funny this thread just got bumped; I published my thoughts moments ago // Substack Link

In short, I think the outdoor industry (and MTB specifically) is going to be a fascinating litmus test for generative AI content. My hunch: outside of press releases, which were already tough enough to read, the “AI slop” will get rejected hard. Push too far over the line, and it could actually damage a brand, almost like a form of digital doping.

That said, smart companies will find ways to use AI subtly, stretching the mileage of a single photoshoot, or quickly testing campaign variations that never would have been A/B tested before because of budget or time. Done right, that could be a form of leverage without losing authenticity.

...interesting times afoot.

AndehM wrote:
Regarding your section on "Your Feed = Possible Trashcan" , I feel like YouTube hit that point at least a year ago.  The feed there...

Regarding your section on "Your Feed = Possible Trashcan" , I feel like YouTube hit that point at least a year ago.  The feed there, even when filtered to "Downhill Mountain Biking" is mostly just crap tailored to show up the YT feed algorithm.  And that's without AI generated slop.

 

The "downhill mountain biking" "category" being half gravel, road and motorcycles simply reinforces the notion that there's nobody at the wheel at youtube.  And why would there be?  Automation (and/or pushing the burden on to everyone else) is the only way modern tech companies can be profitable businesses.

Youtube doesn't let us see our list of blocked channels any more, presumably it was becoming embarrassing.  You can clear the list, but you can't see it.  Mine would be more than a thousand channels so far, if I had to guess, and still grows daily.

3
boozed
Posts
654
Joined
6/11/2019
Location
AU
9/21/2025 4:05pm
Honestly I think the "community" people are the ones who need to embrace AI tools - unfortunately the big tech companies have created a world where...

Honestly I think the "community" people are the ones who need to embrace AI tools - unfortunately the big tech companies have created a world where the mention of things like AI are terrible but they can be used in really good ways (they just choose the worst/most exploitive options). I feel like we are long past the point where we can get along with "vibes" only and there is a chance for big companies to swoop in and chew up the established MTB brands and the new digital tools will be one thing they use. I thought it might be bosch but now I feel like DJI is more likely to dominate things in a few years. 

But AI can be used to maximise productivity and deal with the repetitive inefficient tasks that small company either wastes a lot of time on. Its not hard to use it only when and where needed and save your time and energy for the actual creative and skilled tasks

To quote my favourite show - "I'm condemned to use the tools of my enemy to defeat them"

"But AI can be used to maximise productivity and deal with the repetitive inefficient tasks that small company either wastes a lot of time on. Its not hard to use it only when and where needed and save your time and energy for the actual creative and skilled tasks"

Can you give some some examples?  And will they remain cost-effective solutions when the generative AI companies start charging users what it actually costs to run the systems?

2
9/21/2025 5:08pm
Honestly I think the "community" people are the ones who need to embrace AI tools - unfortunately the big tech companies have created a world where...

Honestly I think the "community" people are the ones who need to embrace AI tools - unfortunately the big tech companies have created a world where the mention of things like AI are terrible but they can be used in really good ways (they just choose the worst/most exploitive options). I feel like we are long past the point where we can get along with "vibes" only and there is a chance for big companies to swoop in and chew up the established MTB brands and the new digital tools will be one thing they use. I thought it might be bosch but now I feel like DJI is more likely to dominate things in a few years. 

But AI can be used to maximise productivity and deal with the repetitive inefficient tasks that small company either wastes a lot of time on. Its not hard to use it only when and where needed and save your time and energy for the actual creative and skilled tasks

To quote my favourite show - "I'm condemned to use the tools of my enemy to defeat them"

boozed wrote:
"But AI can be used to maximise productivity and deal with the repetitive inefficient tasks that small company either wastes a lot of time on. Its...

"But AI can be used to maximise productivity and deal with the repetitive inefficient tasks that small company either wastes a lot of time on. Its not hard to use it only when and where needed and save your time and energy for the actual creative and skilled tasks"

Can you give some some examples?  And will they remain cost-effective solutions when the generative AI companies start charging users what it actually costs to run the systems?

Sure, people are aware of the image realated ones which isn't something I've really used much but they can be simple things like 

-organising your images ie sorting them in to folders relating to the subject, or extracting data (so for me I could have photos of customer bikes and the Ai can extract what model of bike and suspension they have) and serial numbers. 

-someone doing photo editing can bulk crop and process pictures ready for a certain format

For me I've mostly seen the coding/programming tasks which in terms of a business could be -

-take a list of clients, format the data and clean it up ready to use in a different program which I can extract sales data from or just track client histort

-write me a python script which automates that process which I can use anywhere

-get it to create a script which directly calls from my booking system API, then updates my invoicing program and my shipping system well as creating a customer record for tracking notes about the job. These are the kinds of things you normally need several pieces of go-between software to do (like zapier) if its possible at all, and they often paywall the features or limit how much you can do. 

-generate a program that tracks websites for updates about new products, documentation or stock availability and notifies you. 

 

Basically anything you can do with a computer, there is a way to automate it and LLM's are really really good at working out how to do it for you with just a prompt. But yes you are right to question the costs of it, which is why I have been hesititant to commit to the online-only access ones (they will only increase the costs and lock us out of it) but it is rapidly becoming more accessible to run these things on your own computer. With a beefy (like really beefy) GPU you can run some quite impressive and powerful models locally, but you can get much smaller specialised models which run on very modest hardware (eg my 8th gen intel laptop without a discrete gpu) if you only ask it to do specific things. Basically in the last year or 2 it has started to reach a point where a small business can run their own LLM's on hardware that is within their budget (ie the size of the hardware needed should be roughly proportional to your turnover). Ollama and LM studio are the 2 I've tried, LM studio in particular is very easy to get started with

boozed
Posts
654
Joined
6/11/2019
Location
AU
9/21/2025 5:28pm Edited Date/Time 9/21/2025 8:40pm
Honestly I think the "community" people are the ones who need to embrace AI tools - unfortunately the big tech companies have created a world where...

Honestly I think the "community" people are the ones who need to embrace AI tools - unfortunately the big tech companies have created a world where the mention of things like AI are terrible but they can be used in really good ways (they just choose the worst/most exploitive options). I feel like we are long past the point where we can get along with "vibes" only and there is a chance for big companies to swoop in and chew up the established MTB brands and the new digital tools will be one thing they use. I thought it might be bosch but now I feel like DJI is more likely to dominate things in a few years. 

But AI can be used to maximise productivity and deal with the repetitive inefficient tasks that small company either wastes a lot of time on. Its not hard to use it only when and where needed and save your time and energy for the actual creative and skilled tasks

To quote my favourite show - "I'm condemned to use the tools of my enemy to defeat them"

boozed wrote:
"But AI can be used to maximise productivity and deal with the repetitive inefficient tasks that small company either wastes a lot of time on. Its...

"But AI can be used to maximise productivity and deal with the repetitive inefficient tasks that small company either wastes a lot of time on. Its not hard to use it only when and where needed and save your time and energy for the actual creative and skilled tasks"

Can you give some some examples?  And will they remain cost-effective solutions when the generative AI companies start charging users what it actually costs to run the systems?

Sure, people are aware of the image realated ones which isn't something I've really used much but they can be simple things like -organising your images ie...

Sure, people are aware of the image realated ones which isn't something I've really used much but they can be simple things like 

-organising your images ie sorting them in to folders relating to the subject, or extracting data (so for me I could have photos of customer bikes and the Ai can extract what model of bike and suspension they have) and serial numbers. 

-someone doing photo editing can bulk crop and process pictures ready for a certain format

For me I've mostly seen the coding/programming tasks which in terms of a business could be -

-take a list of clients, format the data and clean it up ready to use in a different program which I can extract sales data from or just track client histort

-write me a python script which automates that process which I can use anywhere

-get it to create a script which directly calls from my booking system API, then updates my invoicing program and my shipping system well as creating a customer record for tracking notes about the job. These are the kinds of things you normally need several pieces of go-between software to do (like zapier) if its possible at all, and they often paywall the features or limit how much you can do. 

-generate a program that tracks websites for updates about new products, documentation or stock availability and notifies you. 

 

Basically anything you can do with a computer, there is a way to automate it and LLM's are really really good at working out how to do it for you with just a prompt. But yes you are right to question the costs of it, which is why I have been hesititant to commit to the online-only access ones (they will only increase the costs and lock us out of it) but it is rapidly becoming more accessible to run these things on your own computer. With a beefy (like really beefy) GPU you can run some quite impressive and powerful models locally, but you can get much smaller specialised models which run on very modest hardware (eg my 8th gen intel laptop without a discrete gpu) if you only ask it to do specific things. Basically in the last year or 2 it has started to reach a point where a small business can run their own LLM's on hardware that is within their budget (ie the size of the hardware needed should be roughly proportional to your turnover). Ollama and LM studio are the 2 I've tried, LM studio in particular is very easy to get started with

Thanks.  I would caution against using LLMs to write code, unless you're already an experienced programmer and/or don't care about security.

The photo editing job sounds like a Photoshop (edit: other image editing software is available!) batch which, I suppose that's technically "AI" in the sense that there's no such thing as true AI so every computer automated task has been described as "AI" by someone at some point...

3
ballz
Posts
474
Joined
7/30/2024
Location
Ouagadougou EH
9/21/2025 5:47pm

IME a Copilot chatbot might do 80% of your task in 20% of your time, but you'll be then spending 200+% of your time figuring out where those 20% are and fixing them manually anyway.

7
Blake_Motley
Posts
161
Joined
11/14/2013
Location
Chula Vista, CA US
9/21/2025 5:54pm
Honestly I think the "community" people are the ones who need to embrace AI tools - unfortunately the big tech companies have created a world where...

Honestly I think the "community" people are the ones who need to embrace AI tools - unfortunately the big tech companies have created a world where the mention of things like AI are terrible but they can be used in really good ways (they just choose the worst/most exploitive options). I feel like we are long past the point where we can get along with "vibes" only and there is a chance for big companies to swoop in and chew up the established MTB brands and the new digital tools will be one thing they use. I thought it might be bosch but now I feel like DJI is more likely to dominate things in a few years. 

But AI can be used to maximise productivity and deal with the repetitive inefficient tasks that small company either wastes a lot of time on. Its not hard to use it only when and where needed and save your time and energy for the actual creative and skilled tasks

To quote my favourite show - "I'm condemned to use the tools of my enemy to defeat them"

boozed wrote:
"But AI can be used to maximise productivity and deal with the repetitive inefficient tasks that small company either wastes a lot of time on. Its...

"But AI can be used to maximise productivity and deal with the repetitive inefficient tasks that small company either wastes a lot of time on. Its not hard to use it only when and where needed and save your time and energy for the actual creative and skilled tasks"

Can you give some some examples?  And will they remain cost-effective solutions when the generative AI companies start charging users what it actually costs to run the systems?

Sure, people are aware of the image realated ones which isn't something I've really used much but they can be simple things like -organising your images ie...

Sure, people are aware of the image realated ones which isn't something I've really used much but they can be simple things like 

-organising your images ie sorting them in to folders relating to the subject, or extracting data (so for me I could have photos of customer bikes and the Ai can extract what model of bike and suspension they have) and serial numbers. 

-someone doing photo editing can bulk crop and process pictures ready for a certain format

For me I've mostly seen the coding/programming tasks which in terms of a business could be -

-take a list of clients, format the data and clean it up ready to use in a different program which I can extract sales data from or just track client histort

-write me a python script which automates that process which I can use anywhere

-get it to create a script which directly calls from my booking system API, then updates my invoicing program and my shipping system well as creating a customer record for tracking notes about the job. These are the kinds of things you normally need several pieces of go-between software to do (like zapier) if its possible at all, and they often paywall the features or limit how much you can do. 

-generate a program that tracks websites for updates about new products, documentation or stock availability and notifies you. 

 

Basically anything you can do with a computer, there is a way to automate it and LLM's are really really good at working out how to do it for you with just a prompt. But yes you are right to question the costs of it, which is why I have been hesititant to commit to the online-only access ones (they will only increase the costs and lock us out of it) but it is rapidly becoming more accessible to run these things on your own computer. With a beefy (like really beefy) GPU you can run some quite impressive and powerful models locally, but you can get much smaller specialised models which run on very modest hardware (eg my 8th gen intel laptop without a discrete gpu) if you only ask it to do specific things. Basically in the last year or 2 it has started to reach a point where a small business can run their own LLM's on hardware that is within their budget (ie the size of the hardware needed should be roughly proportional to your turnover). Ollama and LM studio are the 2 I've tried, LM studio in particular is very easy to get started with

I’m skeptical that these are actually cost effective. AI is still mistake prone enough that one would likely have to spend a considerable amount of time checking the work. The energy costs are also still hilariously subsidized here in the U.S. while energy costs in general have skyrocketed over the last few years. IMO China is the only country positioning themselves to actually benefit from AI with their massive solar and wind investments

9/21/2025 7:27pm
boozed wrote:
"But AI can be used to maximise productivity and deal with the repetitive inefficient tasks that small company either wastes a lot of time on. Its...

"But AI can be used to maximise productivity and deal with the repetitive inefficient tasks that small company either wastes a lot of time on. Its not hard to use it only when and where needed and save your time and energy for the actual creative and skilled tasks"

Can you give some some examples?  And will they remain cost-effective solutions when the generative AI companies start charging users what it actually costs to run the systems?

Sure, people are aware of the image realated ones which isn't something I've really used much but they can be simple things like -organising your images ie...

Sure, people are aware of the image realated ones which isn't something I've really used much but they can be simple things like 

-organising your images ie sorting them in to folders relating to the subject, or extracting data (so for me I could have photos of customer bikes and the Ai can extract what model of bike and suspension they have) and serial numbers. 

-someone doing photo editing can bulk crop and process pictures ready for a certain format

For me I've mostly seen the coding/programming tasks which in terms of a business could be -

-take a list of clients, format the data and clean it up ready to use in a different program which I can extract sales data from or just track client histort

-write me a python script which automates that process which I can use anywhere

-get it to create a script which directly calls from my booking system API, then updates my invoicing program and my shipping system well as creating a customer record for tracking notes about the job. These are the kinds of things you normally need several pieces of go-between software to do (like zapier) if its possible at all, and they often paywall the features or limit how much you can do. 

-generate a program that tracks websites for updates about new products, documentation or stock availability and notifies you. 

 

Basically anything you can do with a computer, there is a way to automate it and LLM's are really really good at working out how to do it for you with just a prompt. But yes you are right to question the costs of it, which is why I have been hesititant to commit to the online-only access ones (they will only increase the costs and lock us out of it) but it is rapidly becoming more accessible to run these things on your own computer. With a beefy (like really beefy) GPU you can run some quite impressive and powerful models locally, but you can get much smaller specialised models which run on very modest hardware (eg my 8th gen intel laptop without a discrete gpu) if you only ask it to do specific things. Basically in the last year or 2 it has started to reach a point where a small business can run their own LLM's on hardware that is within their budget (ie the size of the hardware needed should be roughly proportional to your turnover). Ollama and LM studio are the 2 I've tried, LM studio in particular is very easy to get started with

boozed wrote:
Thanks.  I would caution against using LLMs to write code, unless you're already an experienced programmer and/or don't care about security.The photo editing job sounds like...

Thanks.  I would caution against using LLMs to write code, unless you're already an experienced programmer and/or don't care about security.

The photo editing job sounds like a Photoshop (edit: other image editing software is available!) batch which, I suppose that's technically "AI" in the sense that there's no such thing as true AI so every computer automated task has been described as "AI" by someone at some point...

You mean photoshop as in Adobe Photoshop?....the notoriously greedy company that locks you in to a subscription or else it blocks basic features from you? my entire point is that Ai tools can do the same tasks as those big companies without holding your data and access to their software to ransom. And for sure you shouldn't blindly use code from an LLM without taking precautions, you will need at least some understanding of it but they can give you a huge head start on what would normally take ages to get something basically funcitonal

AndehM
Posts
613
Joined
5/7/2018
Location
El Granada, CA US
9/22/2025 6:49am
Primoz wrote:
On the topic of Google and how shitty the search results are, honest question, what to replace it with? I've tried DuckDuckGo, Quant and now trying...

On the topic of Google and how shitty the search results are, honest question, what to replace it with? I've tried DuckDuckGo, Quant and now trying out Brave and regardless of how in fact shitty Google has become, it is nevertheless still a lot more useful than any of the three I tried to replace it with.

I use DDG, and would say that while it's not as good as Google was 10 years ago before the great Enshittification, it's less shit than Google now.  In large part due to the fact you can completely turn off AI summaries.

Part of my loathing for the AI crapware that they're shoveling on us is how it consistently gives me shit results.  If I search my Google Photos for "bikes" (just trying to narrow down my thousands of photos so I can pick out a specific shot I know I took), it will not show every photo of bikes I took, and the results it gives each time are inconsistent.  Likewise if I try and search "serial number" of a photo I took of my bike's SN.  I was talking to my buddy about ebike range extenders, and we weren't sure how Bosch handled discharging them.  He asked ChatGPT, I asked Google, both gave incorrect answers (which I had to dig up myself from the Bosch website using DDG).  (The AI bots responded how people would like things to be - RE depleting first, then main battery.  Reality is Bosch depletes higher % first to match the other, then evenly after that.)

1
9/22/2025 7:55am Edited Date/Time 9/22/2025 8:00am
boozed wrote:
"But AI can be used to maximise productivity and deal with the repetitive inefficient tasks that small company either wastes a lot of time on. Its...

"But AI can be used to maximise productivity and deal with the repetitive inefficient tasks that small company either wastes a lot of time on. Its not hard to use it only when and where needed and save your time and energy for the actual creative and skilled tasks"

Can you give some some examples?  And will they remain cost-effective solutions when the generative AI companies start charging users what it actually costs to run the systems?

Sure, people are aware of the image realated ones which isn't something I've really used much but they can be simple things like -organising your images ie...

Sure, people are aware of the image realated ones which isn't something I've really used much but they can be simple things like 

-organising your images ie sorting them in to folders relating to the subject, or extracting data (so for me I could have photos of customer bikes and the Ai can extract what model of bike and suspension they have) and serial numbers. 

-someone doing photo editing can bulk crop and process pictures ready for a certain format

For me I've mostly seen the coding/programming tasks which in terms of a business could be -

-take a list of clients, format the data and clean it up ready to use in a different program which I can extract sales data from or just track client histort

-write me a python script which automates that process which I can use anywhere

-get it to create a script which directly calls from my booking system API, then updates my invoicing program and my shipping system well as creating a customer record for tracking notes about the job. These are the kinds of things you normally need several pieces of go-between software to do (like zapier) if its possible at all, and they often paywall the features or limit how much you can do. 

-generate a program that tracks websites for updates about new products, documentation or stock availability and notifies you. 

 

Basically anything you can do with a computer, there is a way to automate it and LLM's are really really good at working out how to do it for you with just a prompt. But yes you are right to question the costs of it, which is why I have been hesititant to commit to the online-only access ones (they will only increase the costs and lock us out of it) but it is rapidly becoming more accessible to run these things on your own computer. With a beefy (like really beefy) GPU you can run some quite impressive and powerful models locally, but you can get much smaller specialised models which run on very modest hardware (eg my 8th gen intel laptop without a discrete gpu) if you only ask it to do specific things. Basically in the last year or 2 it has started to reach a point where a small business can run their own LLM's on hardware that is within their budget (ie the size of the hardware needed should be roughly proportional to your turnover). Ollama and LM studio are the 2 I've tried, LM studio in particular is very easy to get started with

boozed wrote:
Thanks.  I would caution against using LLMs to write code, unless you're already an experienced programmer and/or don't care about security.The photo editing job sounds like...

Thanks.  I would caution against using LLMs to write code, unless you're already an experienced programmer and/or don't care about security.

The photo editing job sounds like a Photoshop (edit: other image editing software is available!) batch which, I suppose that's technically "AI" in the sense that there's no such thing as true AI so every computer automated task has been described as "AI" by someone at some point...

Just wanted to highlight the comment about "unless you're already an experienced programmer".

I think the greatest illusive use case of the recent AI boom is the notion of "use our LLM and instantly become a pro at X", where X is some skill previously gained thru persistent effort and time spent learning.

The LLMs definitely help me be more productive but this is usually because (1), I'm using the LLM to help to perform a task in the quadrant of knowledge of "things I know that I know", or (2), I'm doing a search to find information that might exist in the "things that I don't know that I don't know" quadrant.

In (1), this speeds up implementation of things that I have already learned. In (2), this speeds up my time to learn because I can focus my efforts to study a seminal work or speed up time to find the correct resource. In either case, learning must still take place - either previously or in the future.

The idea that an LLM can circumvent this process of learning is ridiculous (to me), but businesses exist to take advantage of this naivete. PyMC-Marketing and Google's Meridian are two open-source software solutions that provide everything needed to perform some key, albeit run of the mill, marketing optimization. PyMC even touts how LLMs can produce code for their open-source software as a feature. Of course, premium support is available for a fee. 

I'll stop before I continue to rant further, but my main gripe is that learning is still as important as it ever was. I think the LLMs present an 'easy' way to circumvent that learning, but doing so is detrimental in the long run. A top marketer using an LLM to augment their work is still a top marketer but using an LLM in and of itself does not make the marketer.

Links to PyMC and Meridian below for those interested:

PyMC-Marketing — Open Source Marketing Analytics Solution

Meridian  |  Google for Developers

4
9/22/2025 3:16pm
Sure, people are aware of the image realated ones which isn't something I've really used much but they can be simple things like -organising your images ie...

Sure, people are aware of the image realated ones which isn't something I've really used much but they can be simple things like 

-organising your images ie sorting them in to folders relating to the subject, or extracting data (so for me I could have photos of customer bikes and the Ai can extract what model of bike and suspension they have) and serial numbers. 

-someone doing photo editing can bulk crop and process pictures ready for a certain format

For me I've mostly seen the coding/programming tasks which in terms of a business could be -

-take a list of clients, format the data and clean it up ready to use in a different program which I can extract sales data from or just track client histort

-write me a python script which automates that process which I can use anywhere

-get it to create a script which directly calls from my booking system API, then updates my invoicing program and my shipping system well as creating a customer record for tracking notes about the job. These are the kinds of things you normally need several pieces of go-between software to do (like zapier) if its possible at all, and they often paywall the features or limit how much you can do. 

-generate a program that tracks websites for updates about new products, documentation or stock availability and notifies you. 

 

Basically anything you can do with a computer, there is a way to automate it and LLM's are really really good at working out how to do it for you with just a prompt. But yes you are right to question the costs of it, which is why I have been hesititant to commit to the online-only access ones (they will only increase the costs and lock us out of it) but it is rapidly becoming more accessible to run these things on your own computer. With a beefy (like really beefy) GPU you can run some quite impressive and powerful models locally, but you can get much smaller specialised models which run on very modest hardware (eg my 8th gen intel laptop without a discrete gpu) if you only ask it to do specific things. Basically in the last year or 2 it has started to reach a point where a small business can run their own LLM's on hardware that is within their budget (ie the size of the hardware needed should be roughly proportional to your turnover). Ollama and LM studio are the 2 I've tried, LM studio in particular is very easy to get started with

boozed wrote:
Thanks.  I would caution against using LLMs to write code, unless you're already an experienced programmer and/or don't care about security.The photo editing job sounds like...

Thanks.  I would caution against using LLMs to write code, unless you're already an experienced programmer and/or don't care about security.

The photo editing job sounds like a Photoshop (edit: other image editing software is available!) batch which, I suppose that's technically "AI" in the sense that there's no such thing as true AI so every computer automated task has been described as "AI" by someone at some point...

Just wanted to highlight the comment about "unless you're already an experienced programmer".I think the greatest illusive use case of the recent AI boom is the...

Just wanted to highlight the comment about "unless you're already an experienced programmer".

I think the greatest illusive use case of the recent AI boom is the notion of "use our LLM and instantly become a pro at X", where X is some skill previously gained thru persistent effort and time spent learning.

The LLMs definitely help me be more productive but this is usually because (1), I'm using the LLM to help to perform a task in the quadrant of knowledge of "things I know that I know", or (2), I'm doing a search to find information that might exist in the "things that I don't know that I don't know" quadrant.

In (1), this speeds up implementation of things that I have already learned. In (2), this speeds up my time to learn because I can focus my efforts to study a seminal work or speed up time to find the correct resource. In either case, learning must still take place - either previously or in the future.

The idea that an LLM can circumvent this process of learning is ridiculous (to me), but businesses exist to take advantage of this naivete. PyMC-Marketing and Google's Meridian are two open-source software solutions that provide everything needed to perform some key, albeit run of the mill, marketing optimization. PyMC even touts how LLMs can produce code for their open-source software as a feature. Of course, premium support is available for a fee. 

I'll stop before I continue to rant further, but my main gripe is that learning is still as important as it ever was. I think the LLMs present an 'easy' way to circumvent that learning, but doing so is detrimental in the long run. A top marketer using an LLM to augment their work is still a top marketer but using an LLM in and of itself does not make the marketer.

Links to PyMC and Meridian below for those interested:

PyMC-Marketing — Open Source Marketing Analytics Solution

Meridian  |  Google for Developers

Yup I agree with all this and LLM's defnitely aren't a substitute for learning - and the examples you gave are a much better way of explaining it. I have heard it called a force multiplier - they help you make the most of the skills you already have, which is crucial for people in a small business who could do a lot of the jobs they need to succeed but either lack the time or can't afford to pay someone else. If you don't have those skills to begin with there is nothing to multiply.  I watched a video recently by Prusa (3d printers) with someone who had started an online printing business and was proudly claiming how he built all the infrastructure and automation with AI even though he knew nothing about code! that is something I'm definitely not recommending and was kinda disappointed they didn't add any disclaimer about that either.

for me, the things I'm planning on doing are combing all my settings and tune data to make it easy to compare - I've got the knowledge to check the outputs that they all make sense and can easily verify it, but the manual tidying up and combining is extremely time consuming (and still prone to errors done manually) so thats the type of thing I'm suggesting. We can extract really good insights and useful tools from data we already have, it just gets too unwieldy to manage after a certain point. 

3
Primoz
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9/23/2025 6:16am
boozed wrote:
"But AI can be used to maximise productivity and deal with the repetitive inefficient tasks that small company either wastes a lot of time on. Its...

"But AI can be used to maximise productivity and deal with the repetitive inefficient tasks that small company either wastes a lot of time on. Its not hard to use it only when and where needed and save your time and energy for the actual creative and skilled tasks"

Can you give some some examples?  And will they remain cost-effective solutions when the generative AI companies start charging users what it actually costs to run the systems?

Sure, people are aware of the image realated ones which isn't something I've really used much but they can be simple things like -organising your images ie...

Sure, people are aware of the image realated ones which isn't something I've really used much but they can be simple things like 

-organising your images ie sorting them in to folders relating to the subject, or extracting data (so for me I could have photos of customer bikes and the Ai can extract what model of bike and suspension they have) and serial numbers. 

-someone doing photo editing can bulk crop and process pictures ready for a certain format

For me I've mostly seen the coding/programming tasks which in terms of a business could be -

-take a list of clients, format the data and clean it up ready to use in a different program which I can extract sales data from or just track client histort

-write me a python script which automates that process which I can use anywhere

-get it to create a script which directly calls from my booking system API, then updates my invoicing program and my shipping system well as creating a customer record for tracking notes about the job. These are the kinds of things you normally need several pieces of go-between software to do (like zapier) if its possible at all, and they often paywall the features or limit how much you can do. 

-generate a program that tracks websites for updates about new products, documentation or stock availability and notifies you. 

 

Basically anything you can do with a computer, there is a way to automate it and LLM's are really really good at working out how to do it for you with just a prompt. But yes you are right to question the costs of it, which is why I have been hesititant to commit to the online-only access ones (they will only increase the costs and lock us out of it) but it is rapidly becoming more accessible to run these things on your own computer. With a beefy (like really beefy) GPU you can run some quite impressive and powerful models locally, but you can get much smaller specialised models which run on very modest hardware (eg my 8th gen intel laptop without a discrete gpu) if you only ask it to do specific things. Basically in the last year or 2 it has started to reach a point where a small business can run their own LLM's on hardware that is within their budget (ie the size of the hardware needed should be roughly proportional to your turnover). Ollama and LM studio are the 2 I've tried, LM studio in particular is very easy to get started with

I’m skeptical that these are actually cost effective. AI is still mistake prone enough that one would likely have to spend a considerable amount of time...

I’m skeptical that these are actually cost effective. AI is still mistake prone enough that one would likely have to spend a considerable amount of time checking the work. The energy costs are also still hilariously subsidized here in the U.S. while energy costs in general have skyrocketed over the last few years. IMO China is the only country positioning themselves to actually benefit from AI with their massive solar and wind investments

FWIW there's a reason why the likes of Microsoft, Amazon & Co are aligning themselves with nuclear power projects since AI has become a thing... 

1
Falcon
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9/23/2025 10:53am
Goupil wrote:
Not a company, but I'm starting to get some MTB AI slop in my youtube feed, when so far it was only related to cars (a...

Not a company, but I'm starting to get some MTB AI slop in my youtube feed, when so far it was only related to cars (a much larger audience). I wonder if we're gonna reach a point where the internet is just useless slop with some actual informations here and there

2025-09-05 20 03 37-YouTube %E2%80%94 Mozilla Firefox 0.png?VersionId=iy5H.WVEz4M8KaKg34oo

Not gonna lie tho - that Giocannd (Glocantip? Biocanna?) carbon hardtail looks good. 😁

Blake_Motley
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9/25/2025 2:21pm

I swiped this from Spomer’s comment in another thread, but it’s relevant here as well. 

“posting in here b/c it doesn't seem worthy of its own thread, but the evolving competition element is interesting. Press release from X Games about its future which includes AI judging, sports betting, league with a "draft" and more.

pulling some of their ideas into MTB, not sure how it'd work, but could be some kind of multi-discipline team points contest. Scott or Specialized or Trek etc that have big teams in both XC and DH battle for a multi-discipline overall award. has that been done before? maybe it's too complicated. have a one event where two xc team members and two DH members compete in the opposite disciplines for glory and points (so nino on the DH bike and coulanges on the XC bike)

X Games Goes “ALL IN” on the Future of Action Sports
New visual identity, X Games League, AI judging, sports betting, and global expansion mark the dawn of a new era

[Boulder, CO – September 24, 2025] – X Games, the undisputed epicenter of action sports, today unveiled a bold new era defined by rebellion, creativity, and individuality.

X Games announced a full visual rebrand—new logo, new identity, new look—designed for the next era of sport: rebellious at its core, global in its reach, and made to evolve as fast as the athletes who push it forward. The rebrand is just one piece of a sweeping vision that will define the next 30 years of action sports.
 
At the heart of this transformation is the X Games League, the first-ever year-round, team-based league in action sports, launching in the summer of 2026. The league represents a fundamental shift in how fans experience action sports—blending team rivalries, individual glory, and new revenue streams for athletes.
 
“X Games has always been where outsiders became icons and impossible became possible,” said Jeremy Bloom, CEO of X Games. “We’re staying true to that DNA—pushing limits, celebrating individuality, and challenging the status quo—but we’re also reimagining what’s next. This is more than a rebrand. This is the future of sports. And our athletes and partners are ALL IN.”
 
Watch the teaser HERE
Explore more HERE
 
The Future of X Games: Key Moves

X Games League (2026): Led by Annie Lokesh, formerly of the WNBA, the world’s first team-based action sports league debuts Summer 2026 with drafted athletes competing at every X Games. Over 150 athletes have declared for the inaugural XGL Summer Draft. The league will have both summer and winter seasons. 

AI-Powered Judging (The OWL): Real-time, transparent scoring that ensures accuracy and trust for athletes and fans.

Sports Betting & Fantasy Sports: Entering a U.S. market already valued at $17B+, unlocking deeper engagement with fans under 35.

Year-Round Global Events: Expanding beyond the traditional summer/winter schedule, with more stops around the world and local-language broadcasts.

Athlete-First Model: Bigger prize purses, new compensation pathways, and deeper storytelling to elevate the athletes who fuel the movement.

Festival-Like Live Events: Blending competition with music, tech, culture, and community for unforgettable fan experiences.

Explosive Social Growth: Building on momentum that doubled YouTube subscribers to 2M and grew total reach to 16M+ across channels—with a sharper focus on two-way dialogue with fans.

 
ABOUT X GAMES
Since 1995, X Games has defined action sports—from Tony Hawk’s 900 to Shaun White’s halfpipe dominance to the rise of BMX and skateboarding as global forces. Over 30 years, it has become more than a competition: it’s a cultural touchstone, blending sports, music, fashion, and community.
 
ABOUT X GAMES LEAGUE
Debuting in 2026, the X Games League (XGL) will reinvent competition with a team-based model, where athletes contribute both individually and to team championships. Beyond the $2.4M already distributed in prize money annually, the league unlocks new athlete earning potential and long-term stability for the sports they represent.”

Goupil
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9/26/2025 2:21am

For some reason, transparent isn't the first word that comes to my mind when I read "AI powered judging" 

7
10/1/2025 9:39am

I can comment on this: 

In apps like Instagram, Facebook, and TT, the last few months have been a cringe filled nightmare with the AI voice-over tech that has infested videos, ESPECIALLY review or comparison videos. These are videos that show real videos just with some generic voice speaking.

It is so painfully obvious that a real person is not speaking and instead it is a prompt written by someone who's first language was not obviously English. Examples:

"YT" pronounced "yit"

"Santa Cruz" pronounced with a rolled r (this one is hilarious to me)

"V10" gets pronounced "Vee-one-zero"

"Spartan" as in the Devinci Spartan will get pronounced "spar-Tan" 

Any Irish MTB athlete's name will get butchered to high heaven

Plenty of quotes verbatim from popular reviews on PB, Vital, or Loam Wolf when referencing specific products.

3
10/1/2025 9:45am
I’m skeptical that these are actually cost effective. AI is still mistake prone enough that one would likely have to spend a considerable amount of time...

I’m skeptical that these are actually cost effective. AI is still mistake prone enough that one would likely have to spend a considerable amount of time checking the work. The energy costs are also still hilariously subsidized here in the U.S. while energy costs in general have skyrocketed over the last few years. IMO China is the only country positioning themselves to actually benefit from AI with their massive solar and wind investments

China opens up a new coal-fired power plant every week. Their green initiatives are a facade. They certainly can benefit from AI, but like what is happening here (or at least being spoken of for development) they will simply build an isolated grid per data center and it will more than likely be coal-powered.

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Blake_Motley
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10/1/2025 12:15pm
I’m skeptical that these are actually cost effective. AI is still mistake prone enough that one would likely have to spend a considerable amount of time...

I’m skeptical that these are actually cost effective. AI is still mistake prone enough that one would likely have to spend a considerable amount of time checking the work. The energy costs are also still hilariously subsidized here in the U.S. while energy costs in general have skyrocketed over the last few years. IMO China is the only country positioning themselves to actually benefit from AI with their massive solar and wind investments

China opens up a new coal-fired power plant every week. Their green initiatives are a facade. They certainly can benefit from AI, but like what is...

China opens up a new coal-fired power plant every week. Their green initiatives are a facade. They certainly can benefit from AI, but like what is happening here (or at least being spoken of for development) they will simply build an isolated grid per data center and it will more than likely be coal-powered.

2
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Blake_Motley
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10/8/2025 10:42am

This is by far my most pedantic example yet, but Ride Wrap is using AI thumbnails. Again, not a huge deal in the grand scheme, but I’ve also seen how much my electric bill here in California has gone up since 2022

owl-x
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10/8/2025 1:00pm

That X Games League is crooked from the get-go. It’s definitely designed to get into the uber shady world of sports betting, with strange private shadow owners and dudes who’ve already pushed NFT scams. Every once in a while it’s great MTB isn’t considered cool. You don’t want any part of this shit!

3
10/10/2025 12:38pm

Can we get an AI to filter out all of the course marshal whistles in the RAW edits? 

My GF is all "oh your watching your whistle videos again" every time I'm getting my fix. 

2
owl-x
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10/11/2025 7:32am
Can we get an AI to filter out all of the course marshal whistles in the RAW edits? My GF is all "oh your watching your whistle...

Can we get an AI to filter out all of the course marshal whistles in the RAW edits? 

My GF is all "oh your watching your whistle videos again" every time I'm getting my fix. 

There was a dude on Pinkbike that said he’d help me with this, but he bailed. 
I’ve considered reaching out to my genius friend to straight up pay him to make something but then I got sidetracked and bored. I wish I could do it myself. Maybe I could—just looking for an audio filter that kills the whistles. Chrome plugin. 

You can do this too. The name should obviously be Whistlestop. 

Just let me know when it’s ready. And give me credit for the name. 

It’s gotta be so easy. Seriously. 

jeff.brines
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10/11/2025 7:39am
Can we get an AI to filter out all of the course marshal whistles in the RAW edits? My GF is all "oh your watching your whistle...

Can we get an AI to filter out all of the course marshal whistles in the RAW edits? 

My GF is all "oh your watching your whistle videos again" every time I'm getting my fix. 

owl-x wrote:
There was a dude on Pinkbike that said he’d help me with this, but he bailed. I’ve considered reaching out to my genius friend to straight up...

There was a dude on Pinkbike that said he’d help me with this, but he bailed. 
I’ve considered reaching out to my genius friend to straight up pay him to make something but then I got sidetracked and bored. I wish I could do it myself. Maybe I could—just looking for an audio filter that kills the whistles. Chrome plugin. 

You can do this too. The name should obviously be Whistlestop. 

Just let me know when it’s ready. And give me credit for the name. 

It’s gotta be so easy. Seriously. 

This isn't as easy as you might think, plus you could get it to the finish line only to learn some DRM-protected streams may block tab capture. Probably not worth the 10 hours of work it'd take to get it deployed.

10/11/2025 11:23am
Can we get an AI to filter out all of the course marshal whistles in the RAW edits? My GF is all "oh your watching your whistle...

Can we get an AI to filter out all of the course marshal whistles in the RAW edits? 

My GF is all "oh your watching your whistle videos again" every time I'm getting my fix. 

I think that misses the point of a RAW video? I always felt like the whistles are part of what made them cool in the first place. Other websites try to do "raw" videos that are overly produced and its not the same IMO

4
Blake_Motley
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10/11/2025 1:07pm
Can we get an AI to filter out all of the course marshal whistles in the RAW edits? My GF is all "oh your watching your whistle...

Can we get an AI to filter out all of the course marshal whistles in the RAW edits? 

My GF is all "oh your watching your whistle videos again" every time I'm getting my fix. 

I think that misses the point of a RAW video? I always felt like the whistles are part of what made them cool in the first...

I think that misses the point of a RAW video? I always felt like the whistles are part of what made them cool in the first place. Other websites try to do "raw" videos that are overly produced and its not the same IMO

It’s also missing the point of this thread 🙈 

10/11/2025 1:28pm Edited Date/Time 10/11/2025 1:39pm
Primoz wrote:
On the topic of Google and how shitty the search results are, honest question, what to replace it with? I've tried DuckDuckGo, Quant and now trying...

On the topic of Google and how shitty the search results are, honest question, what to replace it with? I've tried DuckDuckGo, Quant and now trying out Brave and regardless of how in fact shitty Google has become, it is nevertheless still a lot more useful than any of the three I tried to replace it with.

I wanted to come back to this question because its definitely a huge problem IMO and one of the things that makes people think AI is terrible. If you ever try researching something you have no experience with its become almost impossible to find results you can trust, and with the way companies like google control the search and advertising its going to be really hard to get around that. 

I've seen things like SearXNG which works like a self hosted search engine that isolates you from all the tracking and spying that comes with using google, but I haven't tested how good it is at actually finding what you need. It combines results from several search engines so still relies on how good those are, but might be better at filtering out the useful stuff for you.

 

edit the link above is all about self hosting and probably not helpful if you aren't already up to speed on that, but you can set it up using public instances which I will give a try first! 

owl-x
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Shell Beach, CA US
10/11/2025 1:38pm
This isn't as easy as you might think, plus you could get it to the finish line only to learn some DRM-protected streams may block tab...

This isn't as easy as you might think, plus you could get it to the finish line only to learn some DRM-protected streams may block tab capture. Probably not worth the 10 hours of work it'd take to get it deployed.

nah, looks like you got fork oil dripping on your keyboard again…it’d be easy. 
DontWorryIMakeMusicGuy could do it on one of his rack units collecting dust in the corner: set a band stop filter and make the whistles go “____” 

 

1
10/11/2025 1:54pm
Primoz wrote:
On the topic of Google and how shitty the search results are, honest question, what to replace it with? I've tried DuckDuckGo, Quant and now trying...

On the topic of Google and how shitty the search results are, honest question, what to replace it with? I've tried DuckDuckGo, Quant and now trying out Brave and regardless of how in fact shitty Google has become, it is nevertheless still a lot more useful than any of the three I tried to replace it with.

I wanted to come back to this question because its definitely a huge problem IMO and one of the things that makes people think AI is...

I wanted to come back to this question because its definitely a huge problem IMO and one of the things that makes people think AI is terrible. If you ever try researching something you have no experience with its become almost impossible to find results you can trust, and with the way companies like google control the search and advertising its going to be really hard to get around that. 

I've seen things like SearXNG which works like a self hosted search engine that isolates you from all the tracking and spying that comes with using google, but I haven't tested how good it is at actually finding what you need. It combines results from several search engines so still relies on how good those are, but might be better at filtering out the useful stuff for you.

 

edit the link above is all about self hosting and probably not helpful if you aren't already up to speed on that, but you can set it up using public instances which I will give a try first! 

OK this is kinda cool......had a play with a couple of the public versions https://searx.space/#help-country and found you seem to have a lot of control over exactly where and how it searches for you (a shocking concept in 2025...)

The first one I tried responded super quick with results entirely from Bing which wasn't promising, but found it was only because the default for that specific instance was JUST bing (WTF) but its easy to turn off and tweak the weight/bias of each search engine

Screenshot From 2025-10-12 09-48-47.png?VersionId=FhO8aS6oqQRI2noZn2
1
Primoz
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SI
10/11/2025 3:10pm

I opened one of the public instances a few days ago and got mostly Chinese results searching for a local pizzeria (this is something that works on Google but the likes of DDG and Brave search have problems with). I dismissed it, but looks like I'll have to take a more in depth look at it. Self hosting is... Possible, but at the moment would only work inside the LAN (or on the personal VPN on my phone).

I read an article saying Kagi search could also be an alternative. 

Sorry for this off topic... 

10/11/2025 3:51pm
Primoz wrote:
I opened one of the public instances a few days ago and got mostly Chinese results searching for a local pizzeria (this is something that works...

I opened one of the public instances a few days ago and got mostly Chinese results searching for a local pizzeria (this is something that works on Google but the likes of DDG and Brave search have problems with). I dismissed it, but looks like I'll have to take a more in depth look at it. Self hosting is... Possible, but at the moment would only work inside the LAN (or on the personal VPN on my phone).

I read an article saying Kagi search could also be an alternative. 

Sorry for this off topic... 

Yeah in my head it was vaguely AI related (I think you can have your own custom AI summaries with it) but probably too far from the original topic. I was just thinking of starting a thread to lump a bunch of random nerd stuff in to so I don't derail anything else...

(as for accessing things outside your local network, I use tailscale.....it rules)

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