Don't know anything about the Megatower, but 2026 colours and builds have been released. The newest gen 2025 Hightower was released in September 2024, so if I had to guess the new Mega would be released during the second half of 2026. I have the current Mega and it's a sweet bike.
Clamping down on the axle is what improves torsional rigidity of an usd fork. Besides bending the stanchions also twist a bit and also twist around...
Clamping down on the axle is what improves torsional rigidity of an usd fork. Besides bending the stanchions also twist a bit and also twist around the axle. Clamping that down makes it a bit stiffer.
Hey all, learned a lot about bending and tube shapes in this discussion. To your point, clamping a tube is extremely effective at preventing rotation, i.e. the handlebar/stem interface or seatpost/seattube interface. No one makes hexagonal seatposts or handlebars, because bolts and clamps seem to work just fine. Not a lot of rotation if things are clamped down properly.
I disagree with @TheSuspensionLabNZ (which doesn't happen very often, or ever?) that the axle of a USD is not experiencing significant torsional loads. I think the front wheel on any MTB fork is experiencing tremendous torsional loads because of one-sided disc brakes. I learned this on an illuminating and frightening road ride on an early-generation disc cyclocross bike with a QR front axle. I like road rides that are steep, hilly, and fast on the descents, but this fork was twisting dramatically in the wag/yaw axis whenever I jammed on the brakes, so much that I was being pushed wide on turns at 40+ mph, which was horrifying. I had to ride at basically half speed on all the descents because the front of the bike would wander and push/pull so much when I braked. Yikes.
That's an extreme example, and thank God no one makes QR disc forks anymore (for road or mountain bikes), but the lesson remains. When you make a USD fork, by removing the arch from a traditional telescoping fork, you're asking the axle to do all the work in preventing that torsional wag/yaw force under braking. I think that's more of a concern for than rider input forces, but when you combine all those [braking, trail, and body input] forces together it gets really bad. And then add in the left/right imbalance in forces from single-sided dampers and springs that others have mentioned, that are adding roll forces at the axle. It’s a lot
Imagine a steep set of grippy jagged rocks that you have to brake through into a turn, where you're braking, compressing, decelerating, setting up to turn, and leaning the bike all at the same time, with body inputs in every direction, and maybe stuffing the front wheel into some weird rock shapes that want to deflect the front wheel in the wrong direction, too. That's the scenario where a set of overbuilt and "too stiff" Fox 40 lowers are going to be your friend. By comparison, when you're coasting and not braking on a slippery off-camber, the USD fork is going to be brilliant and the Fox 40 is going to deflect. Trade offs. And this trade off is going to be amplified when we're talking about a single crown USD fork. Color me suspicious of these new single crown USD forks. Would love to try one to see if I’m wrong.
Clamping down on the axle is what improves torsional rigidity of an usd fork. Besides bending the stanchions also twist a bit and also twist around...
Clamping down on the axle is what improves torsional rigidity of an usd fork. Besides bending the stanchions also twist a bit and also twist around the axle. Clamping that down makes it a bit stiffer.
Hey all, learned a lot about bending and tube shapes in this discussion. To your point, clamping a tube is extremely effective at preventing rotation, i.e...
Hey all, learned a lot about bending and tube shapes in this discussion. To your point, clamping a tube is extremely effective at preventing rotation, i.e. the handlebar/stem interface or seatpost/seattube interface. No one makes hexagonal seatposts or handlebars, because bolts and clamps seem to work just fine. Not a lot of rotation if things are clamped down properly.
I disagree with @TheSuspensionLabNZ (which doesn't happen very often, or ever?) that the axle of a USD is not experiencing significant torsional loads. I think the front wheel on any MTB fork is experiencing tremendous torsional loads because of one-sided disc brakes. I learned this on an illuminating and frightening road ride on an early-generation disc cyclocross bike with a QR front axle. I like road rides that are steep, hilly, and fast on the descents, but this fork was twisting dramatically in the wag/yaw axis whenever I jammed on the brakes, so much that I was being pushed wide on turns at 40+ mph, which was horrifying. I had to ride at basically half speed on all the descents because the front of the bike would wander and push/pull so much when I braked. Yikes.
That's an extreme example, and thank God no one makes QR disc forks anymore (for road or mountain bikes), but the lesson remains. When you make a USD fork, by removing the arch from a traditional telescoping fork, you're asking the axle to do all the work in preventing that torsional wag/yaw force under braking. I think that's more of a concern for than rider input forces, but when you combine all those [braking, trail, and body input] forces together it gets really bad. And then add in the left/right imbalance in forces from single-sided dampers and springs that others have mentioned, that are adding roll forces at the axle. It’s a lot
Imagine a steep set of grippy jagged rocks that you have to brake through into a turn, where you're braking, compressing, decelerating, setting up to turn, and leaning the bike all at the same time, with body inputs in every direction, and maybe stuffing the front wheel into some weird rock shapes that want to deflect the front wheel in the wrong direction, too. That's the scenario where a set of overbuilt and "too stiff" Fox 40 lowers are going to be your friend. By comparison, when you're coasting and not braking on a slippery off-camber, the USD fork is going to be brilliant and the Fox 40 is going to deflect. Trade offs. And this trade off is going to be amplified when we're talking about a single crown USD fork. Color me suspicious of these new single crown USD forks. Would love to try one to see if I’m wrong.
I don't know enough about this stuff to have an informed opinion but fwiw Darren Murphy (of Push) posted a bunch of stuff about flex and torsion when they were developing the Nine One. His conclusion was that the real-world torsional deflection on their fork wasn't significant enough to offset the other gains the design offered. (Can't find links atm but I do remember that that the "hold the front wheel w/ your knees and turn the bars" test was one he was pretty adamant had almost no bearing on real-world performance).
Hey all, learned a lot about bending and tube shapes in this discussion. To your point, clamping a tube is extremely effective at preventing rotation, i.e...
Hey all, learned a lot about bending and tube shapes in this discussion. To your point, clamping a tube is extremely effective at preventing rotation, i.e. the handlebar/stem interface or seatpost/seattube interface. No one makes hexagonal seatposts or handlebars, because bolts and clamps seem to work just fine. Not a lot of rotation if things are clamped down properly.
I disagree with @TheSuspensionLabNZ (which doesn't happen very often, or ever?) that the axle of a USD is not experiencing significant torsional loads. I think the front wheel on any MTB fork is experiencing tremendous torsional loads because of one-sided disc brakes. I learned this on an illuminating and frightening road ride on an early-generation disc cyclocross bike with a QR front axle. I like road rides that are steep, hilly, and fast on the descents, but this fork was twisting dramatically in the wag/yaw axis whenever I jammed on the brakes, so much that I was being pushed wide on turns at 40+ mph, which was horrifying. I had to ride at basically half speed on all the descents because the front of the bike would wander and push/pull so much when I braked. Yikes.
That's an extreme example, and thank God no one makes QR disc forks anymore (for road or mountain bikes), but the lesson remains. When you make a USD fork, by removing the arch from a traditional telescoping fork, you're asking the axle to do all the work in preventing that torsional wag/yaw force under braking. I think that's more of a concern for than rider input forces, but when you combine all those [braking, trail, and body input] forces together it gets really bad. And then add in the left/right imbalance in forces from single-sided dampers and springs that others have mentioned, that are adding roll forces at the axle. It’s a lot
Imagine a steep set of grippy jagged rocks that you have to brake through into a turn, where you're braking, compressing, decelerating, setting up to turn, and leaning the bike all at the same time, with body inputs in every direction, and maybe stuffing the front wheel into some weird rock shapes that want to deflect the front wheel in the wrong direction, too. That's the scenario where a set of overbuilt and "too stiff" Fox 40 lowers are going to be your friend. By comparison, when you're coasting and not braking on a slippery off-camber, the USD fork is going to be brilliant and the Fox 40 is going to deflect. Trade offs. And this trade off is going to be amplified when we're talking about a single crown USD fork. Color me suspicious of these new single crown USD forks. Would love to try one to see if I’m wrong.
Hey all, learned a lot about bending and tube shapes in this discussion. To your point, clamping a tube is extremely effective at preventing rotation, i.e...
Hey all, learned a lot about bending and tube shapes in this discussion. To your point, clamping a tube is extremely effective at preventing rotation, i.e. the handlebar/stem interface or seatpost/seattube interface. No one makes hexagonal seatposts or handlebars, because bolts and clamps seem to work just fine. Not a lot of rotation if things are clamped down properly.
I disagree with @TheSuspensionLabNZ (which doesn't happen very often, or ever?) that the axle of a USD is not experiencing significant torsional loads. I think the front wheel on any MTB fork is experiencing tremendous torsional loads because of one-sided disc brakes. I learned this on an illuminating and frightening road ride on an early-generation disc cyclocross bike with a QR front axle. I like road rides that are steep, hilly, and fast on the descents, but this fork was twisting dramatically in the wag/yaw axis whenever I jammed on the brakes, so much that I was being pushed wide on turns at 40+ mph, which was horrifying. I had to ride at basically half speed on all the descents because the front of the bike would wander and push/pull so much when I braked. Yikes.
That's an extreme example, and thank God no one makes QR disc forks anymore (for road or mountain bikes), but the lesson remains. When you make a USD fork, by removing the arch from a traditional telescoping fork, you're asking the axle to do all the work in preventing that torsional wag/yaw force under braking. I think that's more of a concern for than rider input forces, but when you combine all those [braking, trail, and body input] forces together it gets really bad. And then add in the left/right imbalance in forces from single-sided dampers and springs that others have mentioned, that are adding roll forces at the axle. It’s a lot
Imagine a steep set of grippy jagged rocks that you have to brake through into a turn, where you're braking, compressing, decelerating, setting up to turn, and leaning the bike all at the same time, with body inputs in every direction, and maybe stuffing the front wheel into some weird rock shapes that want to deflect the front wheel in the wrong direction, too. That's the scenario where a set of overbuilt and "too stiff" Fox 40 lowers are going to be your friend. By comparison, when you're coasting and not braking on a slippery off-camber, the USD fork is going to be brilliant and the Fox 40 is going to deflect. Trade offs. And this trade off is going to be amplified when we're talking about a single crown USD fork. Color me suspicious of these new single crown USD forks. Would love to try one to see if I’m wrong.
yeap, you definitively need to try one of the new single crown USD ones.. keep in mind the crowns are massive, not comparable to conventional and do better job that crowns in conventional that are kept slim and lean for weight targets.. normally.. ..(I can only talk about intend, look at the flash)..Push seems equivalent...
Clamping down on the axle is what improves torsional rigidity of an usd fork. Besides bending the stanchions also twist a bit and also twist around...
Clamping down on the axle is what improves torsional rigidity of an usd fork. Besides bending the stanchions also twist a bit and also twist around the axle. Clamping that down makes it a bit stiffer.
Hey all, learned a lot about bending and tube shapes in this discussion. To your point, clamping a tube is extremely effective at preventing rotation, i.e...
Hey all, learned a lot about bending and tube shapes in this discussion. To your point, clamping a tube is extremely effective at preventing rotation, i.e. the handlebar/stem interface or seatpost/seattube interface. No one makes hexagonal seatposts or handlebars, because bolts and clamps seem to work just fine. Not a lot of rotation if things are clamped down properly.
I disagree with @TheSuspensionLabNZ (which doesn't happen very often, or ever?) that the axle of a USD is not experiencing significant torsional loads. I think the front wheel on any MTB fork is experiencing tremendous torsional loads because of one-sided disc brakes. I learned this on an illuminating and frightening road ride on an early-generation disc cyclocross bike with a QR front axle. I like road rides that are steep, hilly, and fast on the descents, but this fork was twisting dramatically in the wag/yaw axis whenever I jammed on the brakes, so much that I was being pushed wide on turns at 40+ mph, which was horrifying. I had to ride at basically half speed on all the descents because the front of the bike would wander and push/pull so much when I braked. Yikes.
That's an extreme example, and thank God no one makes QR disc forks anymore (for road or mountain bikes), but the lesson remains. When you make a USD fork, by removing the arch from a traditional telescoping fork, you're asking the axle to do all the work in preventing that torsional wag/yaw force under braking. I think that's more of a concern for than rider input forces, but when you combine all those [braking, trail, and body input] forces together it gets really bad. And then add in the left/right imbalance in forces from single-sided dampers and springs that others have mentioned, that are adding roll forces at the axle. It’s a lot
Imagine a steep set of grippy jagged rocks that you have to brake through into a turn, where you're braking, compressing, decelerating, setting up to turn, and leaning the bike all at the same time, with body inputs in every direction, and maybe stuffing the front wheel into some weird rock shapes that want to deflect the front wheel in the wrong direction, too. That's the scenario where a set of overbuilt and "too stiff" Fox 40 lowers are going to be your friend. By comparison, when you're coasting and not braking on a slippery off-camber, the USD fork is going to be brilliant and the Fox 40 is going to deflect. Trade offs. And this trade off is going to be amplified when we're talking about a single crown USD fork. Color me suspicious of these new single crown USD forks. Would love to try one to see if I’m wrong.
I don't know enough about this stuff to have an informed opinion but fwiw Darren Murphy (of Push) posted a bunch of stuff about flex and...
I don't know enough about this stuff to have an informed opinion but fwiw Darren Murphy (of Push) posted a bunch of stuff about flex and torsion when they were developing the Nine One. His conclusion was that the real-world torsional deflection on their fork wasn't significant enough to offset the other gains the design offered. (Can't find links atm but I do remember that that the "hold the front wheel w/ your knees and turn the bars" test was one he was pretty adamant had almost no bearing on real-world performance).
Vital MTB podcast content. Apparently there's very little twisting torque coming in from the contact patch to make steering too vague with an usd fork, making it a non factor.
Clamping down on the axle is what improves torsional rigidity of an usd fork. Besides bending the stanchions also twist a bit and also twist around...
Clamping down on the axle is what improves torsional rigidity of an usd fork. Besides bending the stanchions also twist a bit and also twist around the axle. Clamping that down makes it a bit stiffer.
Hey all, learned a lot about bending and tube shapes in this discussion. To your point, clamping a tube is extremely effective at preventing rotation, i.e...
Hey all, learned a lot about bending and tube shapes in this discussion. To your point, clamping a tube is extremely effective at preventing rotation, i.e. the handlebar/stem interface or seatpost/seattube interface. No one makes hexagonal seatposts or handlebars, because bolts and clamps seem to work just fine. Not a lot of rotation if things are clamped down properly.
I disagree with @TheSuspensionLabNZ (which doesn't happen very often, or ever?) that the axle of a USD is not experiencing significant torsional loads. I think the front wheel on any MTB fork is experiencing tremendous torsional loads because of one-sided disc brakes. I learned this on an illuminating and frightening road ride on an early-generation disc cyclocross bike with a QR front axle. I like road rides that are steep, hilly, and fast on the descents, but this fork was twisting dramatically in the wag/yaw axis whenever I jammed on the brakes, so much that I was being pushed wide on turns at 40+ mph, which was horrifying. I had to ride at basically half speed on all the descents because the front of the bike would wander and push/pull so much when I braked. Yikes.
That's an extreme example, and thank God no one makes QR disc forks anymore (for road or mountain bikes), but the lesson remains. When you make a USD fork, by removing the arch from a traditional telescoping fork, you're asking the axle to do all the work in preventing that torsional wag/yaw force under braking. I think that's more of a concern for than rider input forces, but when you combine all those [braking, trail, and body input] forces together it gets really bad. And then add in the left/right imbalance in forces from single-sided dampers and springs that others have mentioned, that are adding roll forces at the axle. It’s a lot
Imagine a steep set of grippy jagged rocks that you have to brake through into a turn, where you're braking, compressing, decelerating, setting up to turn, and leaning the bike all at the same time, with body inputs in every direction, and maybe stuffing the front wheel into some weird rock shapes that want to deflect the front wheel in the wrong direction, too. That's the scenario where a set of overbuilt and "too stiff" Fox 40 lowers are going to be your friend. By comparison, when you're coasting and not braking on a slippery off-camber, the USD fork is going to be brilliant and the Fox 40 is going to deflect. Trade offs. And this trade off is going to be amplified when we're talking about a single crown USD fork. Color me suspicious of these new single crown USD forks. Would love to try one to see if I’m wrong.
@carlinojoevideo you have a set of Dorados on your bike and some gyroscopes for DAQ, right? Would you equip each of the dropouts (left and right) and the topcap with a gyro if you have enough gear to make it happen?
Theoretically that way, if they are all synced, you could see DS dropout rotation around the axle axis caused by the braking torque (good point @TEAMROBOT) versus the NDS and comparing both to the top cap you could see how much torsion occurs
Not sure you could see yaw of the wheel with the gyros, I'm afraid that might be a separate thing with the hub twisted in between the dropouts causing the movement. And with an usd fork you can't even put time of flight sensors to measure rim deflection left-right as you don't have a fixed geometry (the stanchion is moving up and down relative to the rim it being the outer tube...). Mounting them to the stanchion guards won't be precise enough I'd say... Maybeeee if you had an emerald with the fairly stiff carbon arch thingie.
Or if you mount time of flight sensors to a carrier on a rail, mount a rail (industrial thingie, same stuff that Yeti used on the 303) to the upper stanchion and fix the carrier in place to the dropout to ensure it stays in the same position relative to the wheel, but slides up and down on a very well defined track in the outer stanchion.
I have been riding a USD fork for about a year now. The only time I notice the torsional twist is when climbing techy stuff and the front wheel gets offline/lodged between rocks. When trying to dislodge the wheel, the chassis twist is apparent compared to a traditional fork. Never an issue when moving at speed.
However, it does feel different when hard on the front brake with good traction compared to a traditional fork. Not a bad or vague feeling, just different. Like there is more braking modulation & traction available. It was apparent when first swapping the fork.
At one point Specialized thought it was a good idea to make a MTB front wheel with radial lacing on the non-disk side of a carbon rim. It was used on the single crown E160 fork that had a 20mm thru axle and pretty stout chassis. That wheel would squirm, wind up, and get all sorts of sketchy when hard on the brakes.
Clamping down on the axle is what improves torsional rigidity of an usd fork. Besides bending the stanchions also twist a bit and also twist around...
Clamping down on the axle is what improves torsional rigidity of an usd fork. Besides bending the stanchions also twist a bit and also twist around the axle. Clamping that down makes it a bit stiffer.
Hey all, learned a lot about bending and tube shapes in this discussion. To your point, clamping a tube is extremely effective at preventing rotation, i.e...
Hey all, learned a lot about bending and tube shapes in this discussion. To your point, clamping a tube is extremely effective at preventing rotation, i.e. the handlebar/stem interface or seatpost/seattube interface. No one makes hexagonal seatposts or handlebars, because bolts and clamps seem to work just fine. Not a lot of rotation if things are clamped down properly.
I disagree with @TheSuspensionLabNZ (which doesn't happen very often, or ever?) that the axle of a USD is not experiencing significant torsional loads. I think the front wheel on any MTB fork is experiencing tremendous torsional loads because of one-sided disc brakes. I learned this on an illuminating and frightening road ride on an early-generation disc cyclocross bike with a QR front axle. I like road rides that are steep, hilly, and fast on the descents, but this fork was twisting dramatically in the wag/yaw axis whenever I jammed on the brakes, so much that I was being pushed wide on turns at 40+ mph, which was horrifying. I had to ride at basically half speed on all the descents because the front of the bike would wander and push/pull so much when I braked. Yikes.
That's an extreme example, and thank God no one makes QR disc forks anymore (for road or mountain bikes), but the lesson remains. When you make a USD fork, by removing the arch from a traditional telescoping fork, you're asking the axle to do all the work in preventing that torsional wag/yaw force under braking. I think that's more of a concern for than rider input forces, but when you combine all those [braking, trail, and body input] forces together it gets really bad. And then add in the left/right imbalance in forces from single-sided dampers and springs that others have mentioned, that are adding roll forces at the axle. It’s a lot
Imagine a steep set of grippy jagged rocks that you have to brake through into a turn, where you're braking, compressing, decelerating, setting up to turn, and leaning the bike all at the same time, with body inputs in every direction, and maybe stuffing the front wheel into some weird rock shapes that want to deflect the front wheel in the wrong direction, too. That's the scenario where a set of overbuilt and "too stiff" Fox 40 lowers are going to be your friend. By comparison, when you're coasting and not braking on a slippery off-camber, the USD fork is going to be brilliant and the Fox 40 is going to deflect. Trade offs. And this trade off is going to be amplified when we're talking about a single crown USD fork. Color me suspicious of these new single crown USD forks. Would love to try one to see if I’m wrong.
@carlinojoevideo you have a set of Dorados on your bike and some gyroscopes for DAQ, right? Would you equip each of the dropouts (left and right)...
@carlinojoevideo you have a set of Dorados on your bike and some gyroscopes for DAQ, right? Would you equip each of the dropouts (left and right) and the topcap with a gyro if you have enough gear to make it happen?
Theoretically that way, if they are all synced, you could see DS dropout rotation around the axle axis caused by the braking torque (good point @TEAMROBOT) versus the NDS and comparing both to the top cap you could see how much torsion occurs
Not sure you could see yaw of the wheel with the gyros, I'm afraid that might be a separate thing with the hub twisted in between the dropouts causing the movement. And with an usd fork you can't even put time of flight sensors to measure rim deflection left-right as you don't have a fixed geometry (the stanchion is moving up and down relative to the rim it being the outer tube...). Mounting them to the stanchion guards won't be precise enough I'd say... Maybeeee if you had an emerald with the fairly stiff carbon arch thingie.
Or if you mount time of flight sensors to a carrier on a rail, mount a rail (industrial thingie, same stuff that Yeti used on the 303) to the upper stanchion and fix the carrier in place to the dropout to ensure it stays in the same position relative to the wheel, but slides up and down on a very well defined track in the outer stanchion.
Yeah I’ll try and pull some fore aft and torsional data between different forks I’ve tested.
FYI from an earlier post, the screen shot of the foam model from the MTBR Levo video might be the new Demo, not Enduro.
FYI from an earlier post, the screen shot of the foam model from the MTBR Levo video might be the new Demo, not Enduro.
I thought the same thing, but it definitely isn't a carbon/production model of the newest DH prototype they're on, the one with two chains. The #twochainz bike doesn't have the linkage under the BB, or the pivot at the bottom of the front end of the chainstay swingarm. The new bike seems to have the dogbone link going through the BB structure instead of around and under it.
not sure why I had the notion Banshee was cooking something and that would come up in SeaOtter ? Anybody in the know here ? I may be interested in a Titan (well, always had, but stars did not align).. but I'll hold if v3.2 are on the way out
I thought the same thing, but it definitely isn't a carbon/production model of the newest DH prototype they're on, the one with two chains. The #twochainz...
I thought the same thing, but it definitely isn't a carbon/production model of the newest DH prototype they're on, the one with two chains. The #twochainz bike doesn't have the linkage under the BB, or the pivot at the bottom of the front end of the chainstay swingarm. The new bike seems to have the dogbone link going through the BB structure instead of around and under it.
Yeah, the foam model is a single chain, probably an idler pulley layout vs the two chain layout of the DH bike. There's no geometry for the layshaft visible in the foam model.
Maybe it's a Demo model of the old proto though, the low pivot height one?
not sure why I had the notion Banshee was cooking something and that would come up in SeaOtter ? Anybody in the know here ? I...
not sure why I had the notion Banshee was cooking something and that would come up in SeaOtter ? Anybody in the know here ? I may be interested in a Titan (well, always had, but stars did not align).. but I'll hold if v3.2 are on the way out
Titan is technically 5 years old and is still such an amazing bike you can happily ride it for years to come. But something new has to be cooking, last week they were selling off frames on their US store with something like 50% discount... Just hope they are not moving into the "companies be shutting down" thread, you cant be really sure in theese uncertain times 🤐
not sure why I had the notion Banshee was cooking something and that would come up in SeaOtter ? Anybody in the know here ? I...
not sure why I had the notion Banshee was cooking something and that would come up in SeaOtter ? Anybody in the know here ? I may be interested in a Titan (well, always had, but stars did not align).. but I'll hold if v3.2 are on the way out
Titan is technically 5 years old and is still such an amazing bike you can happily ride it for years to come. But something new has...
Titan is technically 5 years old and is still such an amazing bike you can happily ride it for years to come. But something new has to be cooking, last week they were selling off frames on their US store with something like 50% discount... Just hope they are not moving into the "companies be shutting down" thread, you cant be really sure in theese uncertain times 🤐
banshee is a small operation, IIRC 5 or 6 people. running that lean I would think they can weather tough times in the larger industry better than other companies. given how long their current lineup has been available I certianly hope the closeout sale is indicative that something new is coming. every time i'm in the market for a new bike they always seem to make my short list.
I actually hope this USD fork excitement brings the revival of the all mountain Lefty. Maybe Im the only weird one on this.
Don't know anything about the Megatower, but 2026 colours and builds have been released. The newest gen 2025 Hightower was released in September 2024, so if I had to guess the new Mega would be released during the second half of 2026. I have the current Mega and it's a sweet bike.
some really interesting stuff w/ dakotah and his bike setup (the rim stuff was cool)
Hey all, learned a lot about bending and tube shapes in this discussion. To your point, clamping a tube is extremely effective at preventing rotation, i.e. the handlebar/stem interface or seatpost/seattube interface. No one makes hexagonal seatposts or handlebars, because bolts and clamps seem to work just fine. Not a lot of rotation if things are clamped down properly.
I disagree with @TheSuspensionLabNZ (which doesn't happen very often, or ever?) that the axle of a USD is not experiencing significant torsional loads. I think the front wheel on any MTB fork is experiencing tremendous torsional loads because of one-sided disc brakes. I learned this on an illuminating and frightening road ride on an early-generation disc cyclocross bike with a QR front axle. I like road rides that are steep, hilly, and fast on the descents, but this fork was twisting dramatically in the wag/yaw axis whenever I jammed on the brakes, so much that I was being pushed wide on turns at 40+ mph, which was horrifying. I had to ride at basically half speed on all the descents because the front of the bike would wander and push/pull so much when I braked. Yikes.
That's an extreme example, and thank God no one makes QR disc forks anymore (for road or mountain bikes), but the lesson remains. When you make a USD fork, by removing the arch from a traditional telescoping fork, you're asking the axle to do all the work in preventing that torsional wag/yaw force under braking. I think that's more of a concern for than rider input forces, but when you combine all those [braking, trail, and body input] forces together it gets really bad. And then add in the left/right imbalance in forces from single-sided dampers and springs that others have mentioned, that are adding roll forces at the axle. It’s a lot
Imagine a steep set of grippy jagged rocks that you have to brake through into a turn, where you're braking, compressing, decelerating, setting up to turn, and leaning the bike all at the same time, with body inputs in every direction, and maybe stuffing the front wheel into some weird rock shapes that want to deflect the front wheel in the wrong direction, too. That's the scenario where a set of overbuilt and "too stiff" Fox 40 lowers are going to be your friend. By comparison, when you're coasting and not braking on a slippery off-camber, the USD fork is going to be brilliant and the Fox 40 is going to deflect. Trade offs. And this trade off is going to be amplified when we're talking about a single crown USD fork. Color me suspicious of these new single crown USD forks. Would love to try one to see if I’m wrong.
Other Fox stanchion color options for the U.S. suburban market:
If y'all ever want to test what real torsional flex feels like, just take a usd fork for a ride with the pinch bolts loose 😬
The different front axle configurations are interesting, iirc intend dropped the 20mm option because it didn't yield a significant gain.
I don't know enough about this stuff to have an informed opinion but fwiw Darren Murphy (of Push) posted a bunch of stuff about flex and torsion when they were developing the Nine One. His conclusion was that the real-world torsional deflection on their fork wasn't significant enough to offset the other gains the design offered. (Can't find links atm but I do remember that that the "hold the front wheel w/ your knees and turn the bars" test was one he was pretty adamant had almost no bearing on real-world performance).
What was old is new again!
I had a silver "carbon fibre" coloured version on a Marzo Shiver SC on my Giant AC-1!
This is the best, and only way!
https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.reddit.com%2Fr%2F…
Pon are all in on ebbbssss the MT is dead.
I'll make you feel young again; Acerbis fenders on a chromo Mongoose IBOC.
Frameworks sea otter bike check with Fox usd fork
Both of those vids are great. Neko, FW, and the team are the coolest thing to happen in a long time!
No, I love the Lefty too. Dual crown, inverted, great torsional stiffness, all at that cost of having to deal with Cannondale's customer service.
All these forks have the air spring on just one side anyways, so why not put the damper over there too and dump the other leg?
What patents does Cannondale still hold on it?
yeap, you definitively need to try one of the new single crown USD ones.. keep in mind the crowns are massive, not comparable to conventional and do better job that crowns in conventional that are kept slim and lean for weight targets.. normally.. ..(I can only talk about intend, look at the flash)..Push seems equivalent...
Vital MTB podcast content. Apparently there's very little twisting torque coming in from the contact patch to make steering too vague with an usd fork, making it a non factor.
I’m loving the comeback of the nineties in mountain biking. I hope coloured tires are coming too… haha
@carlinojoevideo you have a set of Dorados on your bike and some gyroscopes for DAQ, right? Would you equip each of the dropouts (left and right) and the topcap with a gyro if you have enough gear to make it happen?
Theoretically that way, if they are all synced, you could see DS dropout rotation around the axle axis caused by the braking torque (good point @TEAMROBOT) versus the NDS and comparing both to the top cap you could see how much torsion occurs
Not sure you could see yaw of the wheel with the gyros, I'm afraid that might be a separate thing with the hub twisted in between the dropouts causing the movement. And with an usd fork you can't even put time of flight sensors to measure rim deflection left-right as you don't have a fixed geometry (the stanchion is moving up and down relative to the rim it being the outer tube...). Mounting them to the stanchion guards won't be precise enough I'd say... Maybeeee if you had an emerald with the fairly stiff carbon arch thingie.
Or if you mount time of flight sensors to a carrier on a rail, mount a rail (industrial thingie, same stuff that Yeti used on the 303) to the upper stanchion and fix the carrier in place to the dropout to ensure it stays in the same position relative to the wheel, but slides up and down on a very well defined track in the outer stanchion.
They're already here
https://versustires.com/collections/enduro-casing
Is that Grice Crispy losing his rice krispies? 😀
I have been riding a USD fork for about a year now. The only time I notice the torsional twist is when climbing techy stuff and the front wheel gets offline/lodged between rocks. When trying to dislodge the wheel, the chassis twist is apparent compared to a traditional fork. Never an issue when moving at speed.
However, it does feel different when hard on the front brake with good traction compared to a traditional fork. Not a bad or vague feeling, just different. Like there is more braking modulation & traction available. It was apparent when first swapping the fork.
At one point Specialized thought it was a good idea to make a MTB front wheel with radial lacing on the non-disk side of a carbon rim. It was used on the single crown E160 fork that had a 20mm thru axle and pretty stout chassis. That wheel would squirm, wind up, and get all sorts of sketchy when hard on the brakes.
Haha, they’re fantastic!
FYI from an earlier post, the screen shot of the foam model from the MTBR Levo video might be the new Demo, not Enduro.
Yeah I’ll try and pull some fore aft and torsional data between different forks I’ve tested.
I thought the same thing, but it definitely isn't a carbon/production model of the newest DH prototype they're on, the one with two chains. The #twochainz bike doesn't have the linkage under the BB, or the pivot at the bottom of the front end of the chainstay swingarm. The new bike seems to have the dogbone link going through the BB structure instead of around and under it.
not sure why I had the notion Banshee was cooking something and that would come up in SeaOtter ? Anybody in the know here ? I may be interested in a Titan (well, always had, but stars did not align).. but I'll hold if v3.2 are on the way out
Yeah, the foam model is a single chain, probably an idler pulley layout vs the two chain layout of the DH bike. There's no geometry for the layshaft visible in the foam model.
Maybe it's a Demo model of the old proto though, the low pivot height one?
Titan is technically 5 years old and is still such an amazing bike you can happily ride it for years to come. But something new has to be cooking, last week they were selling off frames on their US store with something like 50% discount... Just hope they are not moving into the "companies be shutting down" thread, you cant be really sure in theese uncertain times 🤐
banshee is a small operation, IIRC 5 or 6 people. running that lean I would think they can weather tough times in the larger industry better than other companies. given how long their current lineup has been available I certianly hope the closeout sale is indicative that something new is coming. every time i'm in the market for a new bike they always seem to make my short list.