MTB Tech Rumors and Innovation

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ShapeThings
Posts
117
Joined
8/19/2018
Location
Oakland, CA US
4/11/2025 12:16am
TEAMROBOT wrote:
I can't figure out why anyone making an inverted fork in 2025, especially a single crown inverted fork, wouldn't use the Manitou hex axle to add...

I can't figure out why anyone making an inverted fork in 2025, especially a single crown inverted fork, wouldn't use the Manitou hex axle to add torsional stiffness. The patent is expired and it adds almost no weight. I imagine a 15mm hex axle is significantly stiffer in torsion than a round 20mm axle, and doesn't require a new front hub. Especially if you're already doing pinch bolts, you can do it the way the Dorado has been doing it since 2002? It's so simple!

Manitou Axles - S4 Suspension

We'd finally settled on Boost 15mm as a trail bike front hub, and now it's blowing up again. Sigh.

But you know who loves new standards? Component makers + marketing and finance departments. 

3
Etney
Posts
114
Joined
12/23/2024
Location
Frankfurt DE
4/11/2025 3:08am
sethimus wrote:

torsional flex on my flash, stiff enough 

most what you see is really coming from the stem/bar

luisgutrod wrote:
cool video.. now go ride down a mellow gradient street, reach 30-40 km/h and pull front brake while watching the alignment of the front wheel and...

cool video.. now go ride down a mellow gradient street, reach 30-40 km/h and pull front brake while watching the alignment of the front wheel and your stem ; ) (and take a video) zero fore-aft but some torsional flex due to the way the braking affects the system.. I never checked on conventional fork, but had an issue with a broken fender on my edge and paid attention to this as it was crooked and then saw the flex.. anyways.. fantastic forks, I have 2 USDs..

Yeah I have noticed that with my intend fork when doing some bed in of new discs/pads. Looked down during heavy braking and I was like "no way my handlebar/stem is that crooked" - Figured it was torsional flex.

1
ballz
Posts
476
Joined
7/30/2024
Location
Ouagadougou EH
4/11/2025 4:26am
luisgutrod wrote:
cool video.. now go ride down a mellow gradient street, reach 30-40 km/h and pull front brake while watching the alignment of the front wheel and...

cool video.. now go ride down a mellow gradient street, reach 30-40 km/h and pull front brake while watching the alignment of the front wheel and your stem ; ) (and take a video) zero fore-aft but some torsional flex due to the way the braking affects the system.. I never checked on conventional fork, but had an issue with a broken fender on my edge and paid attention to this as it was crooked and then saw the flex.. anyways.. fantastic forks, I have 2 USDs..

To be fair, RSU trail forks flex quite a bit during hard braking as well. 

4
ballz
Posts
476
Joined
7/30/2024
Location
Ouagadougou EH
4/11/2025 4:31am Edited Date/Time 4/11/2025 4:32am
ballz wrote:

Not if the fox ships with the stanchion guards. 

FaahkEet wrote:

If Fox makes USD forks fairly common, bet someone with a 3d printer could make decent money printing out guards.

Primoz wrote:

USD fork mud guard is a PITA to 3D print... Probably easier to make a mold and make it out of carbon or fibreglass... 

I am trying to make DYI guards for the Essential from thermoplastic sheets ... what a PITA without proper tooling. Silly me. Perhaps I should look into 3D printing the mold, but I don't have the skills, time and patience for anything beyond a few simple hacks.

4/11/2025 4:42am
luisgutrod wrote:
cool video.. now go ride down a mellow gradient street, reach 30-40 km/h and pull front brake while watching the alignment of the front wheel and...

cool video.. now go ride down a mellow gradient street, reach 30-40 km/h and pull front brake while watching the alignment of the front wheel and your stem ; ) (and take a video) zero fore-aft but some torsional flex due to the way the braking affects the system.. I never checked on conventional fork, but had an issue with a broken fender on my edge and paid attention to this as it was crooked and then saw the flex.. anyways.. fantastic forks, I have 2 USDs..

ballz wrote:

To be fair, RSU trail forks flex quite a bit during hard braking as well. 

yes, but the bad (or little bit worst) flex...which increases the friction when binding the lowers while stanchions try to slide through noodly lightweight lower legs ; )

1
1
Primoz
Posts
4567
Joined
8/1/2009
Location
SI
4/11/2025 5:06am
FaahkEet wrote:

If Fox makes USD forks fairly common, bet someone with a 3d printer could make decent money printing out guards.

Primoz wrote:

USD fork mud guard is a PITA to 3D print... Probably easier to make a mold and make it out of carbon or fibreglass... 

ballz wrote:
I am trying to make DYI guards for the Essential from thermoplastic sheets ... what a PITA without proper tooling. Silly me. Perhaps I should look...

I am trying to make DYI guards for the Essential from thermoplastic sheets ... what a PITA without proper tooling. Silly me. Perhaps I should look into 3D printing the mold, but I don't have the skills, time and patience for anything beyond a few simple hacks.

If it's stanchion guards only, a friend of mine did 3D print them. 2 separate pieces though without a fender connecting them. 

One possible option would also be to do it in multiple parts and glue them together, but to get over a 29er wheel the whole assembly will be very long and would have to be anchored well enough and sturdy enough to not flap around. 

monarchmason
Posts
291
Joined
5/24/2022
Location
Nevada City, CA US
4/11/2025 7:15am
yeah thats what i was assuming he was talking about. its just that we have two different phenomenons created by longer chainstays (or rather, are linked...

yeah thats what i was assuming he was talking about. its just that we have two different phenomenons created by longer chainstays (or rather, are linked with longer chainstays, since long CS measurements can be acheived through different means, as pointed out by noidea.) 

i like your point, noidea. I had really put those two ideas together, long cs and long swingarm, but that does sound like magic sauce. most of us are settling for whatever the fuck we can get from the people designing these bikes, so each step in what we feel is the right direction gets a resounding cheer.

Sorry can you or someone break down what noidea is talking about. I dont know why reading what he said just had me a little loss. Has me really curious because right at this moment Im trying to deside between a Trance frame or a Banshee Prime frame. Prime having some very long chainstays like the Titan in his example.

4/11/2025 7:54am

There are a few people who I eagerly await pre-season race footage of, top of the list is Loic and based on his recent story I'd say we aren't disappointed. New/Raw brake calipers, possibly uncovered rear shock finally, new chainstay, new/kinked seat tube? There's too much and yes I am hoping someone posts the screenshots for me. 

26
4/11/2025 8:00am
There are a few people who I eagerly await pre-season race footage of, top of the list is Loic and based on his recent story I'd...

There are a few people who I eagerly await pre-season race footage of, top of the list is Loic and based on his recent story I'd say we aren't disappointed. New/Raw brake calipers, possibly uncovered rear shock finally, new chainstay, new/kinked seat tube? There's too much and yes I am hoping someone posts the screenshots for me. 

IMG 6628IMG 6627
18
4/11/2025 8:03am Edited Date/Time 4/11/2025 8:04am
There are a few people who I eagerly await pre-season race footage of, top of the list is Loic and based on his recent story I'd...

There are a few people who I eagerly await pre-season race footage of, top of the list is Loic and based on his recent story I'd say we aren't disappointed. New/Raw brake calipers, possibly uncovered rear shock finally, new chainstay, new/kinked seat tube? There's too much and yes I am hoping someone posts the screenshots for me. 

you must be someone important... that was a quick turnaround for your request ; ). 

11
4/11/2025 8:05am
MTBrent wrote:
IMG 6628IMG 6627

even the stanchions are not black.. so much going on here. ..

4
4/11/2025 8:10am
There are a few people who I eagerly await pre-season race footage of, top of the list is Loic and based on his recent story I'd...

There are a few people who I eagerly await pre-season race footage of, top of the list is Loic and based on his recent story I'd say we aren't disappointed. New/Raw brake calipers, possibly uncovered rear shock finally, new chainstay, new/kinked seat tube? There's too much and yes I am hoping someone posts the screenshots for me. 

MTBrent wrote:
IMG 6628IMG 6627

Those cranks look very short. Maybe 5DEV?

4/11/2025 8:17am
chriskief wrote:

Those cranks look very short. Maybe 5DEV?

You can see the drive crank doesn't have continuous holes like 5 dev. That is most likely a new sram dh crank. The hole looks a lot like the XO crank but the backside is not scalloped like the current XO crank.

3
seanfisseli
Posts
568
Joined
4/16/2024
Location
Santa Cruz, CA US
4/11/2025 8:21am Edited Date/Time 4/11/2025 8:22am
yeah thats what i was assuming he was talking about. its just that we have two different phenomenons created by longer chainstays (or rather, are linked...

yeah thats what i was assuming he was talking about. its just that we have two different phenomenons created by longer chainstays (or rather, are linked with longer chainstays, since long CS measurements can be acheived through different means, as pointed out by noidea.) 

i like your point, noidea. I had really put those two ideas together, long cs and long swingarm, but that does sound like magic sauce. most of us are settling for whatever the fuck we can get from the people designing these bikes, so each step in what we feel is the right direction gets a resounding cheer.

Sorry can you or someone break down what noidea is talking about. I dont know why reading what he said just had me a little loss...

Sorry can you or someone break down what noidea is talking about. I dont know why reading what he said just had me a little loss. Has me really curious because right at this moment Im trying to deside between a Trance frame or a Banshee Prime frame. Prime having some very long chainstays like the Titan in his example.

Honestly I felt like I was having a stroke trying to understand his most recent post, but I think what he means is that swingarm lenghth, CS length, and Rear Center measurements are not the same, even though in some cases they are interchangeable.

It seems his focus is on longer swing arms and how they make for a more efficient suspension operation. We can get longer rear center numbers by moving BBs forward, or tacking on extra length behind the swing arm, but noidea is promoting the idea that we are missing out on having actually long swing arms, since those bikes (like the enduro) ride so much better than short swing arm bikes (from a suspension performance perspective.) 

I don’t really get his thing about being pitched forward, and I haven’t gotten to ride enough bikes to be able to say if the enduro’s suspension works that much better than other bikes. I know that handling-wise longer rear centers are a big deal for a lot of folks in this thread and I think from there we move on to looking at the finer points of the kinematics. 

8
4/11/2025 8:27am

It's pseudo technical babble and not a tech rumor.

19
4/11/2025 8:29am
There are a few people who I eagerly await pre-season race footage of, top of the list is Loic and based on his recent story I'd...

There are a few people who I eagerly await pre-season race footage of, top of the list is Loic and based on his recent story I'd say we aren't disappointed. New/Raw brake calipers, possibly uncovered rear shock finally, new chainstay, new/kinked seat tube? There's too much and yes I am hoping someone posts the screenshots for me. 

MTBrent wrote:
IMG 6628IMG 6627

That fork coating is reminiscent of the older rockshox 26in models. What is it? I forgot if it was Titanium Nitride or something else.

3
4/11/2025 8:29am
MTBrent wrote:
IMG 6628IMG 6627

THe linkage is different now too. Whatever is going on down there, it looks like its going to have massive torque on the pivots, with them being so close together 

4/11/2025 8:32am
There are a few people who I eagerly await pre-season race footage of, top of the list is Loic and based on his recent story I'd...

There are a few people who I eagerly await pre-season race footage of, top of the list is Loic and based on his recent story I'd say we aren't disappointed. New/Raw brake calipers, possibly uncovered rear shock finally, new chainstay, new/kinked seat tube? There's too much and yes I am hoping someone posts the screenshots for me. 

I agree, there were rumours that the demo was getting close to production, then this mid pivot one with 2 chainz and a whole suite of gizmos crops up to make things really interesting.

1
4/11/2025 8:34am
MTBrent wrote:
IMG 6628IMG 6627
THe linkage is different now too. Whatever is going on down there, it looks like its going to have massive torque on the pivots, with them...

THe linkage is different now too. Whatever is going on down there, it looks like its going to have massive torque on the pivots, with them being so close together 

I know what's going on down there. Give me 30 minutes and I'll have a rough linkage model to post

7
4/11/2025 8:40am

I know what's going on down there. Give me 30 minutes and I'll have a rough linkage model to post

I get that its going to be pretty close to the machined chainstay from last season, but I don't see a large extension going down under the BB, so either thats hidden in that low resolution photo, and theres wicked leverage on the (probably) carbon, and/or the pivots are now closer together making things even more extreme. 

1
4/11/2025 8:50am

I know what's going on down there. Give me 30 minutes and I'll have a rough linkage model to post

I get that its going to be pretty close to the machined chainstay from last season, but I don't see a large extension going down under...

I get that its going to be pretty close to the machined chainstay from last season, but I don't see a large extension going down under the BB, so either thats hidden in that low resolution photo, and theres wicked leverage on the (probably) carbon, and/or the pivots are now closer together making things even more extreme. 

IMG 0931
Etney
Posts
114
Joined
12/23/2024
Location
Frankfurt DE
4/11/2025 8:50am

Mildly interesting - But Rockshox "finally" released the electric red color on the rest of their lineup yesterday. Sid, Pike and Lyrik now all available.

d49497c062db20df387b59564c645b67.png?VersionId=ccVifjy5QkgnP

5643fe469b1a0258e80ec34b7e55f0e4.png?VersionId=CeBsKqx4KHRkcBHYo4NoIJ
2
FaahkEet
Posts
104
Joined
3/12/2023
Location
Falls Church, VA US
4/11/2025 8:51am Edited Date/Time 4/11/2025 9:08am
I get that its going to be pretty close to the machined chainstay from last season, but I don't see a large extension going down under...

I get that its going to be pretty close to the machined chainstay from last season, but I don't see a large extension going down under the BB, so either thats hidden in that low resolution photo, and theres wicked leverage on the (probably) carbon, and/or the pivots are now closer together making things even more extreme. 

In the second photo I see some linkage coming from the front and bottom of the bottom bracket. Looks like the bottom bracket may even be open at the front. 

1000001502.jpg?VersionId=QJCtGS1000001503 0

Terrible editing but blue is the cranks and yellow is the bb shell, so all that unmarked area between the yellow and left blue crank looks to me like linkage.

1
4/11/2025 9:26am Edited Date/Time 4/11/2025 9:40am

Possibly related, in the recent MBR video about the new Levo, there is this foam model next to the one of the designer's desks:

IMG 7621 0IMG 7622 0

 

In the (possibly relevant) rendering above the models, it looks to be a bike with a single crown:

IMG 7621 detail 0.jpg?VersionId=BUYvMbQJSjkhiF

 

31
4/11/2025 9:30am
MTBrent wrote:
IMG 6628IMG 6627
THe linkage is different now too. Whatever is going on down there, it looks like its going to have massive torque on the pivots, with them...

THe linkage is different now too. Whatever is going on down there, it looks like its going to have massive torque on the pivots, with them being so close together 

I know what's going on down there. Give me 30 minutes and I'll have a rough linkage model to post

Here is what I drew up, it has a pretty high anti-rise, axle path is rearwards for around 2/3rds of the travel. all the fun stuffimage 273.png?VersionId=P.8xAw.6PbgMnVV

26
matmattmatthew
Posts
359
Joined
6/14/2014
Location
Fresh Prince of Bel Air, MD US
4/11/2025 9:33am
Possibly related, in the recent MBR video about the new Levo, there is this foam model next to the one of the designer's desks: In the (possibly...

Possibly related, in the recent MBR video about the new Levo, there is this foam model next to the one of the designer's desks:

IMG 7621 0IMG 7622 0

 

In the (possibly relevant) rendering above the models, it looks to be a bike with a single crown:

IMG 7621 detail 0.jpg?VersionId=BUYvMbQJSjkhiF

 

New Enduro??

4
4/11/2025 9:35am
THe linkage is different now too. Whatever is going on down there, it looks like its going to have massive torque on the pivots, with them...

THe linkage is different now too. Whatever is going on down there, it looks like its going to have massive torque on the pivots, with them being so close together 

I know what's going on down there. Give me 30 minutes and I'll have a rough linkage model to post

Here is what I drew up, it has a pretty high anti-rise, axle path is rearwards for around 2/3rds of the travel. all the fun stuff

Here is what I drew up, it has a pretty high anti-rise, axle path is rearwards for around 2/3rds of the travel. all the fun stuffimage 273.png?VersionId=P.8xAw.6PbgMnVV

Looks like an evolution of this previous Specialized patent...

OBB-Idler- 0
3
4/11/2025 9:37am
Possibly related, in the recent MBR video about the new Levo, there is this foam model next to the one of the designer's desks: In the (possibly...

Possibly related, in the recent MBR video about the new Levo, there is this foam model next to the one of the designer's desks:

IMG 7621 0IMG 7622 0

 

In the (possibly relevant) rendering above the models, it looks to be a bike with a single crown:

IMG 7621 detail 0.jpg?VersionId=BUYvMbQJSjkhiF

 

New Enduro??

Similar to the Enduro patent drawing found a while back...

Screenshot-2023-10-26-at-15.45.20.png?VersionId=mwU0p34IzmsOzJjs5
10
4/11/2025 9:39am

I know what's going on down there. Give me 30 minutes and I'll have a rough linkage model to post

Here is what I drew up, it has a pretty high anti-rise, axle path is rearwards for around 2/3rds of the travel. all the fun stuff

Here is what I drew up, it has a pretty high anti-rise, axle path is rearwards for around 2/3rds of the travel. all the fun stuffimage 273.png?VersionId=P.8xAw.6PbgMnVV

chriskief wrote:
Looks like an evolution of this previous Specialized patent...

Looks like an evolution of this previous Specialized patent...

OBB-Idler- 0

Sure does! I think one of the interesting things they have done is replace whatever chainring they would have, with a small one that is free to spin on the crank axle or chainring interface, and it serves as the lower tensioner.

1
4/11/2025 9:40am
Here is what I drew up, it has a pretty high anti-rise, axle path is rearwards for around 2/3rds of the travel. all the fun stuff

Here is what I drew up, it has a pretty high anti-rise, axle path is rearwards for around 2/3rds of the travel. all the fun stuffimage 273.png?VersionId=P.8xAw.6PbgMnVV

Are we talking over or under 100% anti-rise??

1
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