There are a few people who I eagerly await pre-season race footage of, top of the list is Loic and based on his recent story I'd...
There are a few people who I eagerly await pre-season race footage of, top of the list is Loic and based on his recent story I'd say we aren't disappointed. New/Raw brake calipers, possibly uncovered rear shock finally, new chainstay, new/kinked seat tube? There's too much and yes I am hoping someone posts the screenshots for me.
THe linkage is different now too. Whatever is going on down there, it looks like its going to have massive torque on the pivots, with them being so close together
There are a few people who I eagerly await pre-season race footage of, top of the list is Loic and based on his recent story I'd...
There are a few people who I eagerly await pre-season race footage of, top of the list is Loic and based on his recent story I'd say we aren't disappointed. New/Raw brake calipers, possibly uncovered rear shock finally, new chainstay, new/kinked seat tube? There's too much and yes I am hoping someone posts the screenshots for me.
I agree, there were rumours that the demo was getting close to production, then this mid pivot one with 2 chainz and a whole suite of gizmos crops up to make things really interesting.
THe linkage is different now too. Whatever is going on down there, it looks like its going to have massive torque on the pivots, with them...
THe linkage is different now too. Whatever is going on down there, it looks like its going to have massive torque on the pivots, with them being so close together
I know what's going on down there. Give me 30 minutes and I'll have a rough linkage model to post
I know what's going on down there. Give me 30 minutes and I'll have a rough linkage model to post
I get that its going to be pretty close to the machined chainstay from last season, but I don't see a large extension going down under the BB, so either thats hidden in that low resolution photo, and theres wicked leverage on the (probably) carbon, and/or the pivots are now closer together making things even more extreme.
I get that its going to be pretty close to the machined chainstay from last season, but I don't see a large extension going down under...
I get that its going to be pretty close to the machined chainstay from last season, but I don't see a large extension going down under the BB, so either thats hidden in that low resolution photo, and theres wicked leverage on the (probably) carbon, and/or the pivots are now closer together making things even more extreme.
Mildly interesting - But Rockshox "finally" released the electric red color on the rest of their lineup yesterday. Sid, Pike and Lyrik now all available.
I get that its going to be pretty close to the machined chainstay from last season, but I don't see a large extension going down under...
I get that its going to be pretty close to the machined chainstay from last season, but I don't see a large extension going down under the BB, so either thats hidden in that low resolution photo, and theres wicked leverage on the (probably) carbon, and/or the pivots are now closer together making things even more extreme.
In the second photo I see some linkage coming from the front and bottom of the bottom bracket. Looks like the bottom bracket may even be open at the front.
Terrible editing but blue is the cranks and yellow is the bb shell, so all that unmarked area between the yellow and left blue crank looks to me like linkage.
THe linkage is different now too. Whatever is going on down there, it looks like its going to have massive torque on the pivots, with them...
THe linkage is different now too. Whatever is going on down there, it looks like its going to have massive torque on the pivots, with them being so close together
THe linkage is different now too. Whatever is going on down there, it looks like its going to have massive torque on the pivots, with them...
THe linkage is different now too. Whatever is going on down there, it looks like its going to have massive torque on the pivots, with them being so close together
Looks like an evolution of this previous Specialized patent...
Looks like an evolution of this previous Specialized patent...
Sure does! I think one of the interesting things they have done is replace whatever chainring they would have, with a small one that is free to spin on the crank axle or chainring interface, and it serves as the lower tensioner.
Here is what I drew up, it has a pretty high anti-rise, axle path is rearwards for around 2/3rds of the travel. all the fun stuff
Here is what I drew up, it has a pretty high anti-rise, axle path is rearwards for around 2/3rds of the travel. all the fun stuff
This looks like a good way to get rid of the vulnerable pull link that was hanging out under the BB on the last version of the Demo prototype. But I'm surprised to hear it has "pretty high anti-rise," and I'm also curious what numbers you think are pretty high, aka above or below 100%
Specialized has been on the very very low AR program for a long time, in the 40-60% range on the Demo, Enduro, and Stumpjumper for years and years. I would be shocked if they went above 100% on the new Demo, and that would represent a big change in suspension philosophy for them.
I can't figure out why anyone making an inverted fork in 2025, especially a single crown inverted fork, wouldn't use the Manitou hex axle to add...
I can't figure out why anyone making an inverted fork in 2025, especially a single crown inverted fork, wouldn't use the Manitou hex axle to add torsional stiffness. The patent is expired and it adds almost no weight. I imagine a 15mm hex axle is significantly stiffer in torsion than a round 20mm axle, and doesn't require a new front hub. Especially if you're already doing pinch bolts, you can do it the way the Dorado has been doing it since 2002? It's so simple!
We'd finally settled on Boost 15mm as a trail bike front hub, and now it's blowing up again. Sigh.
As somebody who's tested this variable back to back on the same chassis (not two totally different forks), the juice wasn't worth the squeeze.
Maybe we need to do a fork stiffness deep dive like the excellent frame compliance analysis Burney did. But in short, forks also have roll and wag. Everyone usually thinks of only wag and they test it with the wheel between the legs, but I'd argue this is only a valid indicator of stiffness during full braking on dry pavement. In this situation, the hex axle can offer a small benefit in reducing wag, but in actual on trail braking the wag isn't as severe and therefore the benefits didn't out weight the complexity of that design.
If we really want to have a conversation about on trail stiffness and compliance of modern USD forks, roll would really be the focus.
This looks like a good way to get rid of the vulnerable pull link that was hanging out under the BB on the last version of...
This looks like a good way to get rid of the vulnerable pull link that was hanging out under the BB on the last version of the Demo prototype. But I'm surprised to hear it has "pretty high anti-rise," and I'm also curious what numbers you think are pretty high, aka above or below 100%
Specialized has been on the very very low AR program for a long time, in the 40-60% range on the Demo, Enduro, and Stumpjumper for years and years. I would be shocked if they went above 100% on the new Demo, and that would represent a big change in suspension philosophy for them.
Starting between 60-80, but without a measuring tape, some callipers and the bike in hand I'm afraid it's just my guess. I keep churning results of about 40-50% progression out which can't be right either.
Not exactly a billion, more like 5 ish times at most (1 to 2 percent losses with a chain, 5 to 10 percent with meshed cogs). One...
Not exactly a billion, more like 5 ish times at most (1 to 2 percent losses with a chain, 5 to 10 percent with meshed cogs).
One thing to note, using two chains in series inside a gearbox will still lower the efficiency compared to a straight chain in a single speed layout by 3 times as you add two loss generating components besides the original one. Are losses on a standard cassette drivetrain higher than a single speed layout due to the chain bending? Yes. Higher than having two additional chain drives? Possibly not, though not sure. Also depends on the lubrication strategy of course.
Yes, the more cogs and chains you include, the more efficiency loss. IIRC the lion’s share of efficiency losses in a chain-drive are from internal friction in the rollers in the chain as they spin under a torque load as they initially contact and then release from the teeth on chainring and cassette. The more load-bearing chains and cogs you have, the more friction. So we're in agreement on that.
But, as you pointed out, there’s also a lot of friction in a chain-drive multi-gear drivetrain from cross-chaining at an angle, which is especially egregious on a modern 1x12 drivetrain. The chain has to do some crazy stuff to get from a 32 tooth chainring (and 55mm chainline, which positions the chainring extra far outboard) and then get all the way back to a 12-speed 52 tooth cog that’s super inboard.
And, as always, in a sealed environment you can also count on consistent lubrication without external contamination, which counts for a lot in mountain biking. I don't know if the new Praxis gearbox will actually work in reality, if it's reliable or efficient but, to my eyes, it's the first plausible gearbox design I've seen.
As somebody who's tested this variable back to back on the same chassis (not two totally different forks), the juice wasn't worth the squeeze. Maybe we need...
As somebody who's tested this variable back to back on the same chassis (not two totally different forks), the juice wasn't worth the squeeze.
Maybe we need to do a fork stiffness deep dive like the excellent frame compliance analysis Burney did. But in short, forks also have roll and wag. Everyone usually thinks of only wag and they test it with the wheel between the legs, but I'd argue this is only a valid indicator of stiffness during full braking on dry pavement. In this situation, the hex axle can offer a small benefit in reducing wag, but in actual on trail braking the wag isn't as severe and therefore the benefits didn't out weight the complexity of that design.
If we really want to have a conversation about on trail stiffness and compliance of modern USD forks, roll would really be the focus.
In theory, if your pinch bolts don't ever slip then the torsional rigidity added by the axle would be a function of OD and ID. All the hex buys you is the assurance that it can never slip.
I can't figure out why anyone making an inverted fork in 2025, especially a single crown inverted fork, wouldn't use the Manitou hex axle to add...
I can't figure out why anyone making an inverted fork in 2025, especially a single crown inverted fork, wouldn't use the Manitou hex axle to add torsional stiffness. The patent is expired and it adds almost no weight. I imagine a 15mm hex axle is significantly stiffer in torsion than a round 20mm axle, and doesn't require a new front hub. Especially if you're already doing pinch bolts, you can do it the way the Dorado has been doing it since 2002? It's so simple!
We'd finally settled on Boost 15mm as a trail bike front hub, and now it's blowing up again. Sigh.
As somebody who's tested this variable back to back on the same chassis (not two totally different forks), the juice wasn't worth the squeeze. Maybe we need...
As somebody who's tested this variable back to back on the same chassis (not two totally different forks), the juice wasn't worth the squeeze.
Maybe we need to do a fork stiffness deep dive like the excellent frame compliance analysis Burney did. But in short, forks also have roll and wag. Everyone usually thinks of only wag and they test it with the wheel between the legs, but I'd argue this is only a valid indicator of stiffness during full braking on dry pavement. In this situation, the hex axle can offer a small benefit in reducing wag, but in actual on trail braking the wag isn't as severe and therefore the benefits didn't out weight the complexity of that design.
If we really want to have a conversation about on trail stiffness and compliance of modern USD forks, roll would really be the focus.
In theory, if your pinch bolts don't ever slip then the torsional rigidity added by the axle would be a function of OD and ID. All...
In theory, if your pinch bolts don't ever slip then the torsional rigidity added by the axle would be a function of OD and ID. All the hex buys you is the assurance that it can never slip.
cool video.. now go ride down a mellow gradient street, reach 30-40 km/h and pull front brake while watching the alignment of the front wheel and...
cool video.. now go ride down a mellow gradient street, reach 30-40 km/h and pull front brake while watching the alignment of the front wheel and your stem ; ) (and take a video) zero fore-aft but some torsional flex due to the way the braking affects the system.. I never checked on conventional fork, but had an issue with a broken fender on my edge and paid attention to this as it was crooked and then saw the flex.. anyways.. fantastic forks, I have 2 USDs..
To be fair, RSU trail forks flex quite a bit during hard braking as well.
more than an USD, the exact behavior is what makes them generate more grip while braking and thus braking fast while the suspension is still working instead of binding
Forgot about that and props to Primoz, it is an insightful post. However, it is only looking at wag and not roll. If he did include roll, I'd venture to guess the results would be similar though, the USD is not as stiff as a RSD. But the nuance of the whole game is what is the right amount of flex/stiffness/compliance?
It's pseudo technical babble and not a tech rumor.
That fork coating is reminiscent of the older rockshox 26in models. What is it? I forgot if it was Titanium Nitride or something else.
THe linkage is different now too. Whatever is going on down there, it looks like its going to have massive torque on the pivots, with them being so close together
I agree, there were rumours that the demo was getting close to production, then this mid pivot one with 2 chainz and a whole suite of gizmos crops up to make things really interesting.
I know what's going on down there. Give me 30 minutes and I'll have a rough linkage model to post
I get that its going to be pretty close to the machined chainstay from last season, but I don't see a large extension going down under the BB, so either thats hidden in that low resolution photo, and theres wicked leverage on the (probably) carbon, and/or the pivots are now closer together making things even more extreme.
Mildly interesting - But Rockshox "finally" released the electric red color on the rest of their lineup yesterday. Sid, Pike and Lyrik now all available.
In the second photo I see some linkage coming from the front and bottom of the bottom bracket. Looks like the bottom bracket may even be open at the front.
Terrible editing but blue is the cranks and yellow is the bb shell, so all that unmarked area between the yellow and left blue crank looks to me like linkage.
Possibly related, in the recent MBR video about the new Levo, there is this foam model next to the one of the designer's desks:
In the (possibly relevant) rendering above the models, it looks to be a bike with a single crown:
![]()
Here is what I drew up, it has a pretty high anti-rise, axle path is rearwards for around 2/3rds of the travel. all the fun stuff
New Enduro??
Looks like an evolution of this previous Specialized patent...
Similar to the Enduro patent drawing found a while back...
Sure does! I think one of the interesting things they have done is replace whatever chainring they would have, with a small one that is free to spin on the crank axle or chainring interface, and it serves as the lower tensioner.
Are we talking over or under 100% anti-rise??
This looks like a good way to get rid of the vulnerable pull link that was hanging out under the BB on the last version of the Demo prototype. But I'm surprised to hear it has "pretty high anti-rise," and I'm also curious what numbers you think are pretty high, aka above or below 100%
Specialized has been on the very very low AR program for a long time, in the 40-60% range on the Demo, Enduro, and Stumpjumper for years and years. I would be shocked if they went above 100% on the new Demo, and that would represent a big change in suspension philosophy for them.
As somebody who's tested this variable back to back on the same chassis (not two totally different forks), the juice wasn't worth the squeeze.
Maybe we need to do a fork stiffness deep dive like the excellent frame compliance analysis Burney did. But in short, forks also have roll and wag. Everyone usually thinks of only wag and they test it with the wheel between the legs, but I'd argue this is only a valid indicator of stiffness during full braking on dry pavement. In this situation, the hex axle can offer a small benefit in reducing wag, but in actual on trail braking the wag isn't as severe and therefore the benefits didn't out weight the complexity of that design.
If we really want to have a conversation about on trail stiffness and compliance of modern USD forks, roll would really be the focus.
Starting between 60-80, but without a measuring tape, some callipers and the bike in hand I'm afraid it's just my guess. I keep churning results of about 40-50% progression out which can't be right either.
Yes, the more cogs and chains you include, the more efficiency loss. IIRC the lion’s share of efficiency losses in a chain-drive are from internal friction in the rollers in the chain as they spin under a torque load as they initially contact and then release from the teeth on chainring and cassette. The more load-bearing chains and cogs you have, the more friction. So we're in agreement on that.
But, as you pointed out, there’s also a lot of friction in a chain-drive multi-gear drivetrain from cross-chaining at an angle, which is especially egregious on a modern 1x12 drivetrain. The chain has to do some crazy stuff to get from a 32 tooth chainring (and 55mm chainline, which positions the chainring extra far outboard) and then get all the way back to a 12-speed 52 tooth cog that’s super inboard.
And, as always, in a sealed environment you can also count on consistent lubrication without external contamination, which counts for a lot in mountain biking. I don't know if the new Praxis gearbox will actually work in reality, if it's reliable or efficient but, to my eyes, it's the first plausible gearbox design I've seen.
In theory, if your pinch bolts don't ever slip then the torsional rigidity added by the axle would be a function of OD and ID. All the hex buys you is the assurance that it can never slip.
https://www.megamo.com/de/e-bike/e-mountainbike-fully/reason/reason-crb-01-(26)
New XT on this BIke. Bike itself looks interesting- never heard of them.
Ecclesiastes 1:9
https://www.vitalmtb.com/forums/The-Hub,2/Are-Upside-Down-forks-really-flexy,11099
100%
more than an USD, the exact behavior is what makes them generate more grip while braking and thus braking fast while the suspension is still working instead of binding
Forgot about that and props to Primoz, it is an insightful post. However, it is only looking at wag and not roll. If he did include roll, I'd venture to guess the results would be similar though, the USD is not as stiff as a RSD. But the nuance of the whole game is what is the right amount of flex/stiffness/compliance?
Cane creek joins the upside down party.
Floating bushings in this one perhaps??
With a 15mm hex axle.
To me it looks like the foam model of whats probably going to be the next Enduro, rather than this high pivot.
What will be interesting is how they try to ebike that design- neither yours, the foam model, or the patent fillings have enough room for a motor.