Nerding out on Brakes shall we? Not another tech deraliment

HexonJuan
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3/27/2025 6:15am
If anyone feels like doing some science on this - you can tape your phone to a fork leg (most people have old smartphones lying around...

If anyone feels like doing some science on this - you can tape your phone to a fork leg (most people have old smartphones lying around these days right?) and use a sensor app like sensorlog (iphone), physics toolbox or I think the arduino app to record vibration and speed - you can use FFT analysis (some of those apps have it built in) to get the frequency of the pulsing, which combined with the speed & wheel diameter you can figure out if it matches the number of spokes in the rotor

Nerd. 😆 That is seriously good info. 

3
3/27/2025 8:20am Edited Date/Time 3/27/2025 8:21am

Details on SRAM's new Motive brake, plus two new DB brakes - https://www.vitalmtb.com/features/guide-2025-sram-mtb-brakes-motive-maven-db-models 

TLDR: 
- Motive replaces Code and Level, becoming the do-everything brake, from XC to all mountain. There are Bronze ($175), Silver ($225), and Ultimate ($275) models, as well as the Ultimate Expert Kit ($599)
- No more 2-piston calipers, everything is 4-piston. 
- ALL BRAKES USE MINERAL OIL NOW.
- DB grows to 3 models—DB8, 6, and 4. They're the cheap brakes for most types of riding. 
- There is a new Maven 'Base' model ($185). It's the entry-level, user-friendly Maven that shouldn't be as powerful. 
- Maven remains unchanged, and there is a new Ultimate Expert Kit as well ($599).

1
Eae903
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Fantasy
3/27/2025 9:28am Edited Date/Time 3/27/2025 9:29am
Details on SRAM's new Motive brake, plus two new DB brakes - https://www.vitalmtb.com/features/guide-2025-sram-mtb-brakes-motive-maven-db-models TLDR: - Motive replaces Code and Level, becoming the do-everything brake, from...

Details on SRAM's new Motive brake, plus two new DB brakes - https://www.vitalmtb.com/features/guide-2025-sram-mtb-brakes-motive-maven-db-models 

TLDR: 
- Motive replaces Code and Level, becoming the do-everything brake, from XC to all mountain. There are Bronze ($175), Silver ($225), and Ultimate ($275) models, as well as the Ultimate Expert Kit ($599)
- No more 2-piston calipers, everything is 4-piston. 
- ALL BRAKES USE MINERAL OIL NOW.
- DB grows to 3 models—DB8, 6, and 4. They're the cheap brakes for most types of riding. 
- There is a new Maven 'Base' model ($185). It's the entry-level, user-friendly Maven that shouldn't be as powerful. 
- Maven remains unchanged, and there is a new Ultimate Expert Kit as well ($599).

The motives seem like a big miss on Srams part to me. Back to a more vague lever feel, less powerful than the Codes, just doesn't make a lot of sense. 

2
3/27/2025 9:47am

It would be spot on if it was a pure xc brake and really light. But seems possibly underwhelming for a trailbike, but now there’s nothing in the lineup between this and mavens. Seems like they should be lighter or stronger

1
3/27/2025 10:02am

So Motive is Guide reincarnate? No thanks.

1
ebruner
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Tustin, CA US
3/27/2025 10:05am

Sram also released the maven base today.  No swing link, dual 18mm pistons (ILO 18 and 19.5 on bronze/silver/ult).  I'm sure this brake will proliferate all sub 10k builds, similarly to how it has with SC's new builds.  Pretty lame tbh... the piston size thing makes just upgrading your brakes with maven silver lever assemblies questionable.  

2
ebruner
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3/27/2025 10:48am

They read as Code power with ligher weight? Even a little less power than Codes seems enough for most trail riding. 

https://www.sram.com/en/sram/mountain/series/motive

Less power then codes is not enough power for trail biking where I live fwiw.  My minimum brake is code, metallic pads and 200mm hs2 rotors and that can be really pushing it on some of the big mountain descents we have here.  

3
3/27/2025 1:40pm

Motive calipers seem to be identical to DB8 calipers with the exception of two of the models use a banjo instead of compression fitting. DB8 calipers are pretty much Code calipers with a compression fitting and different aesthetics. So the difference in performance really comes down to the levers.

7
3/27/2025 4:09pm
Motive calipers seem to be identical to DB8 calipers with the exception of two of the models use a banjo instead of compression fitting. DB8 calipers...

Motive calipers seem to be identical to DB8 calipers with the exception of two of the models use a banjo instead of compression fitting. DB8 calipers are pretty much Code calipers with a compression fitting and different aesthetics. So the difference in performance really comes down to the levers.

That does seem to be the case here. 

And my experiment with Zrace levers on DB8 calipers proves it. They are definitely more powerful than the codes on my older DH bike. Both have the same caliper, but the addition of the zrace levers have definitely netted a more powerful brake on my trail bike than the DH rig

3/27/2025 5:58pm
If anyone feels like doing some science on this - you can tape your phone to a fork leg (most people have old smartphones lying around...

If anyone feels like doing some science on this - you can tape your phone to a fork leg (most people have old smartphones lying around these days right?) and use a sensor app like sensorlog (iphone), physics toolbox or I think the arduino app to record vibration and speed - you can use FFT analysis (some of those apps have it built in) to get the frequency of the pulsing, which combined with the speed & wheel diameter you can figure out if it matches the number of spokes in the rotor

HexonJuan wrote:

Nerd. 😆 That is seriously good info. 

#ifyourenotmeasuringyoureguessing

3
Primoz
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SI
3/28/2025 4:24am
segamethod wrote:

So Motive is Guide reincarnate? No thanks.

More like Level pushed up a lot further based on lever functionality... Guides at least had a swing link (and pad contact adjust). 

3/28/2025 5:43am
Johnboy wrote:
That does seem to be the case here. And my experiment with Zrace levers on DB8 calipers proves it. They are definitely more powerful than the codes...

That does seem to be the case here. 

And my experiment with Zrace levers on DB8 calipers proves it. They are definitely more powerful than the codes on my older DH bike. Both have the same caliper, but the addition of the zrace levers have definitely netted a more powerful brake on my trail bike than the DH rig

What are zrace levers? I’m getting new brakes for my trail bike and intrigued with this idea 

Primoz
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SI
3/28/2025 6:07am

Aliexpress brakes. 

1
3/28/2025 6:41am Edited Date/Time 3/28/2025 7:18am
Johnboy wrote:
That does seem to be the case here. And my experiment with Zrace levers on DB8 calipers proves it. They are definitely more powerful than the codes...

That does seem to be the case here. 

And my experiment with Zrace levers on DB8 calipers proves it. They are definitely more powerful than the codes on my older DH bike. Both have the same caliper, but the addition of the zrace levers have definitely netted a more powerful brake on my trail bike than the DH rig

What are zrace levers? I’m getting new brakes for my trail bike and intrigued with this idea 

As @Primoz posted aliexpress brakes. 

 

But you can purchase just levers. I ran one set initially on Tektro 4 piston calipers for a year and then got a good deal on the DB8 calipers. 

I put a second set of "Zrams" on my enduro bike after how well the levers played with the DB8 calipers

2
3/28/2025 11:04am

Cool, just ordered a set. Thinking I’ll try them with some TRP slate t4 calipers I have. 

1
3/28/2025 4:55pm Edited Date/Time 3/28/2025 4:56pm

Cool, just ordered a set. Thinking I’ll try them with some TRP slate t4 calipers I have. 

It not clear what olive and barb to use from memory. But I just used the shimano barb and olives (for the zrace levers). 

1
bikelurker
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Bilbao, Vizcaya ES
3/30/2025 7:27am
Johnboy wrote:
That does seem to be the case here. And my experiment with Zrace levers on DB8 calipers proves it. They are definitely more powerful than the codes...

That does seem to be the case here. 

And my experiment with Zrace levers on DB8 calipers proves it. They are definitely more powerful than the codes on my older DH bike. Both have the same caliper, but the addition of the zrace levers have definitely netted a more powerful brake on my trail bike than the DH rig

What are zrace levers? I’m getting new brakes for my trail bike and intrigued with this idea 

Johnboy wrote:
As @Primoz posted aliexpress brakes.  But you can purchase just levers. I ran one set initially on Tektro 4 piston calipers for a year and then got...

As @Primoz posted aliexpress brakes. 

 

But you can purchase just levers. I ran one set initially on Tektro 4 piston calipers for a year and then got a good deal on the DB8 calipers. 

I put a second set of "Zrams" on my enduro bike after how well the levers played with the DB8 calipers

Arenwe talking about the "M1" version?

1000013845.jpg?VersionId=pRrd30kCNFhhzypplt5HuSWqUcgos
1
TEAMROBOT
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Fantasy
3/30/2025 10:00am Edited Date/Time 3/30/2025 10:01am
ebruner wrote:
Less power then codes is not enough power for trail biking where I live fwiw.  My minimum brake is code, metallic pads and 200mm hs2 rotors...

Less power then codes is not enough power for trail biking where I live fwiw.  My minimum brake is code, metallic pads and 200mm hs2 rotors and that can be really pushing it on some of the big mountain descents we have here.  

Going off SRAM's marketing materials, wouldn't that make you a DB8 customer? In terms of brake power, it seems like the new SRAM heirarchy is:

1. Maven Ult/Silver/Bronze

2. Maven base (no swinglink, slightly smaller pistons)

3. DB8

4. DB4/6

5. Motive (no swinglink)

 

I'm testing the DB8 for Vital right now and loving it. I can see why that would be a bummer if you've absolutely gotta have a bearing pivot in your brake levers, but it seems like if the Motive isn't enough brake for you than any other brake in the SRAM lineup would give you more power.

3/30/2025 11:03am
bikelurker wrote:
Arenwe talking about the "M1" version?

Arenwe talking about the "M1" version?

1000013845.jpg?VersionId=pRrd30kCNFhhzypplt5HuSWqUcgos

That was my assumption. (Lever is $25, the $7 is for the pads). IMG 3777

Evil96
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Portogruaro, VE IT
3/30/2025 11:24am
TEAMROBOT wrote:
Going off SRAM's marketing materials, wouldn't that make you a DB8 customer? In terms of brake power, it seems like the new SRAM heirarchy is:1. Maven...

Going off SRAM's marketing materials, wouldn't that make you a DB8 customer? In terms of brake power, it seems like the new SRAM heirarchy is:

1. Maven Ult/Silver/Bronze

2. Maven base (no swinglink, slightly smaller pistons)

3. DB8

4. DB4/6

5. Motive (no swinglink)

 

I'm testing the DB8 for Vital right now and loving it. I can see why that would be a bummer if you've absolutely gotta have a bearing pivot in your brake levers, but it seems like if the Motive isn't enough brake for you than any other brake in the SRAM lineup would give you more power.

really? maybe i'm out of luck but i hated every db8 i had a chance to ride, the lever flexes here and there as the bushing holding the blade in place are always loose, stiff lever and power wise worse than codes rsc, which is already meh, feel in general is very cheap and goes with the look, i really don't get them, just from a parking lot test the motive seems to have basically the same power but with a way lighter lever feel and higher quality perception

1
1
bikelurker
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3/30/2025 11:57am Edited Date/Time 3/30/2025 1:02pm
That was my assumption. (Lever is $25, the $7 is for the pads).

That was my assumption. (Lever is $25, the $7 is for the pads). IMG 3777

Yeah, they always quote the cheapest part of the listing, those cheeky aliexpress shops.

DB8 brakesets can be had for about 25€ (per wheel) right now in europe, it's an interesting mod to try, as it seems the weakest link (no pun intended) for DB8s appears to be in the lever itself. A pair of take-off, new in box levers, shouldn't be that dificult to flip, if the experiment ends up working as expected.

2
HexonJuan
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WI US
3/30/2025 2:56pm
That was my assumption. (Lever is $25, the $7 is for the pads).

That was my assumption. (Lever is $25, the $7 is for the pads). IMG 3777

bikelurker wrote:
Yeah, they always quote the cheapest part of the listing, those cheeky aliexpress shops.DB8 brakesets can be had for about 25€ (per wheel) right now in...

Yeah, they always quote the cheapest part of the listing, those cheeky aliexpress shops.

DB8 brakesets can be had for about 25€ (per wheel) right now in europe, it's an interesting mod to try, as it seems the weakest link (no pun intended) for DB8s appears to be in the lever itself. A pair of take-off, new in box levers, shouldn't be that dificult to flip, if the experiment ends up working as expected.

Just buy the complete Ali brake. Two reasons. 1, the non tool free reach adjust Zrace MCs use an IFP instead of a diaphragm in the res. I had issues with that when the temps dropped below freezing. Newer tool free units use a diaphragm awfully similar to Shimano's. 2, you can find the complete brakes for around $70/set/shipped.3, IME the completes are pretty damn good. They were consistent in Copper Harbor and Duluth, and admittedly both locales aren't heavy in vert they can put a demand on stoppers. I liked em better than Level 4 pots and they have a lighter lever feel than Codes. Ymmv of course, but I liked em well enough to put em on the other 2 mtbs, ditching my Shimano SLX 4 pistons.

1
jalopyj
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3/30/2025 4:49pm

I’m building up a new frame and plan on bleeding my Hayes A4s. I have a small bottle of dot fluid that came in the Hayes pro kit. It’s been opened and unused for the last 6-9 months. I’ve heard it’s best to use a fresh bottle as older/unused fluid will have absorbed moisture. Am I good to just use what I have or is it best to just get another small bottle of dot fluid? 

FaahkEet
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Falls Church, VA US
3/30/2025 5:25pm

12 months is supposedly the cut off for using a previously opened bottle of dot fluid.

Although I've used longer opened, but as long as the lever isn't spongy either after bleed or after a heavy brake incident to heat it up significantly then you are fine. Of course then you have to do another bleed with new fluid if it is spongy.

3/30/2025 6:00pm

What are zrace levers? I’m getting new brakes for my trail bike and intrigued with this idea 

Johnboy wrote:
As @Primoz posted aliexpress brakes.  But you can purchase just levers. I ran one set initially on Tektro 4 piston calipers for a year and then got...

As @Primoz posted aliexpress brakes. 

 

But you can purchase just levers. I ran one set initially on Tektro 4 piston calipers for a year and then got a good deal on the DB8 calipers. 

I put a second set of "Zrams" on my enduro bike after how well the levers played with the DB8 calipers

bikelurker wrote:
Arenwe talking about the "M1" version?

Arenwe talking about the "M1" version?

1000013845.jpg?VersionId=pRrd30kCNFhhzypplt5HuSWqUcgos

Yep, those ones

3/30/2025 6:07pm
That was my assumption. (Lever is $25, the $7 is for the pads).

That was my assumption. (Lever is $25, the $7 is for the pads). IMG 3777

bikelurker wrote:
Yeah, they always quote the cheapest part of the listing, those cheeky aliexpress shops.DB8 brakesets can be had for about 25€ (per wheel) right now in...

Yeah, they always quote the cheapest part of the listing, those cheeky aliexpress shops.

DB8 brakesets can be had for about 25€ (per wheel) right now in europe, it's an interesting mod to try, as it seems the weakest link (no pun intended) for DB8s appears to be in the lever itself. A pair of take-off, new in box levers, shouldn't be that dificult to flip, if the experiment ends up working as expected.

HexonJuan wrote:
Just buy the complete Ali brake. Two reasons. 1, the non tool free reach adjust Zrace MCs use an IFP instead of a diaphragm in the...

Just buy the complete Ali brake. Two reasons. 1, the non tool free reach adjust Zrace MCs use an IFP instead of a diaphragm in the res. I had issues with that when the temps dropped below freezing. Newer tool free units use a diaphragm awfully similar to Shimano's. 2, you can find the complete brakes for around $70/set/shipped.3, IME the completes are pretty damn good. They were consistent in Copper Harbor and Duluth, and admittedly both locales aren't heavy in vert they can put a demand on stoppers. I liked em better than Level 4 pots and they have a lighter lever feel than Codes. Ymmv of course, but I liked em well enough to put em on the other 2 mtbs, ditching my Shimano SLX 4 pistons.

FWIW I bought only from the official Zrace store and initially had to ask for the tool free adjust levers. 

The second more recent pair I bought (when I requested tool free) they says they only have the tool free ones now.

At least I think that is what they were saying 🙃

1000023780.png?VersionId=SE BrtvaeoW

 

DServy
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Jackson, WY US
4/2/2025 5:36pm

So, now that some of us are coming out of winter hibernation, wanted to get some thoughts on brake pad options. I did spend a week riding on Galfer green pads on a set of mavens and they seemed “fine.” However I’m not convinced they are that much better than SRAM metallic, though they did bead in super quick. I just haven’t been on a set of SRAM metallic brake pads in months (due to not being on a bike) and I can’t really decide if I should double down on Galfer greens, or just stick with SRAM metallic. I also hear that the Galfers wear significantly faster, but I can’t speak to their longevity just quite yet. 

For those who have played around with a bunch of brake pads options, what do you guys think of the current state of OEM vs after market pads. 

 

2

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