MTB Tech Rumors and Innovation

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boozed
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644
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AU
2/7/2024 2:51am
fartsack wrote:
it's pretty much a ransom with internal batterys and additional batterypack somewhere 18kg. other than the "purist reason" to not get any help from a motor...

it's pretty much a ransom with internal batterys and additional batterypack somewhere 18kg.

other than the "purist reason" to not get any help from a motor, there s no reason to have a ransom over the new voltage. 

Does the "purist reason" include not wanting to spend the extra $3k+ on the eMTB?

Don't answer that, let's just move on.

10
fartsack
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咸興市 KP
2/7/2024 5:49am
fartsack wrote:
it's pretty much a ransom with internal batterys and additional batterypack somewhere 18kg. other than the "purist reason" to not get any help from a motor...

it's pretty much a ransom with internal batterys and additional batterypack somewhere 18kg.

other than the "purist reason" to not get any help from a motor, there s no reason to have a ransom over the new voltage. 

boozed wrote:

Does the "purist reason" include not wanting to spend the extra $3k+ on the eMTB?

Don't answer that, let's just move on.

haha, it's a Scott, no need to answer :D

2
1
2/7/2024 8:09pm

like every other scott.... features over performance.

6
1
loris_74
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2/8/2024 4:55am

Capture d%E2%80%99%C3%A9cran 2024-02-08 134929.png?VersionId=From YT Newsletter (Vali Bike check). "Maven" laser etching addition.

21
jonkranked
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2/8/2024 5:47am

on the other site's latest article about tire inserts, e13 revealed that they are developing their own.  whether or not it will be brought to market time will tell.

1
ggccvv
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quebec, QC CA
2/8/2024 7:12am

Sorry if that was asked before, but what is the purpose of the four horizontal torx bolts on the caliper.

2
Simcik
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Loma, CO US
2/8/2024 7:18am
ggccvv wrote:

Sorry if that was asked before, but what is the purpose of the four horizontal torx bolts on the caliper.

I assume it is a two piece caliper, those bolts are how it is bolted together. They did this with the original Code calipers in the mid 2000's.

13
Camber
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GB
2/8/2024 7:37am
loris_74 wrote:
From YT Newsletter (Vali Bike check). "Maven" laser etching addition.

Capture d%E2%80%99%C3%A9cran 2024-02-08 134929.png?VersionId=From YT Newsletter (Vali Bike check). "Maven" laser etching addition.

It looks like the top part might be removeable to for wet and dry races to keep heat in the pads for cold/wet races

1
Snfoilhat
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Berkeley, CA US
2/8/2024 7:51am
loris_74 wrote:
From YT Newsletter (Vali Bike check). "Maven" laser etching addition.

Capture d%E2%80%99%C3%A9cran 2024-02-08 134929.png?VersionId=From YT Newsletter (Vali Bike check). "Maven" laser etching addition.

IMG 3424.jpeg?VersionId=heSsZGUn8Y OZJXns8h?

21
matmattmatthew
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Fresh Prince of Bel Air, MD US
2/8/2024 7:54am
ggccvv wrote:

Sorry if that was asked before, but what is the purpose of the four horizontal torx bolts on the caliper.

I am no engineer, but I always thought it was because it's harder and more cost-prohibitive to machine a one-piece caliper for bikes so they are made in 2 pieces and bolted together.  The larger the caliper the more bolts it needs to hold the two pieces together.  

I'm pretty sure Hope makes 1 piece calipers, I remember back in the day (early 2000's) that was one of the things that set them apart from other brakes.  

5
owl-x
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Shell Beach, CA US
2/8/2024 7:57am
loris_74 wrote:
From YT Newsletter (Vali Bike check). "Maven" laser etching addition.

Capture d%E2%80%99%C3%A9cran 2024-02-08 134929.png?VersionId=From YT Newsletter (Vali Bike check). "Maven" laser etching addition.

Snfoilhat wrote:
?

IMG 3424.jpeg?VersionId=heSsZGUn8Y OZJXns8h?

frankencodes

1
krabo83
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AT
2/8/2024 8:21am Edited Date/Time 2/8/2024 8:23am
loris_74 wrote:
From YT Newsletter (Vali Bike check). "Maven" laser etching addition.

Capture d%E2%80%99%C3%A9cran 2024-02-08 134929.png?VersionId=From YT Newsletter (Vali Bike check). "Maven" laser etching addition.

Camber wrote:

It looks like the top part might be removeable to for wet and dry races to keep heat in the pads for cold/wet races

AFAIK those are closed up top so brakepads only removable downwards… aligning brakepads/rubbing will be a pain in the ass i guess.

2
2/8/2024 8:21am Edited Date/Time 2/8/2024 8:23am
ggccvv wrote:

Sorry if that was asked before, but what is the purpose of the four horizontal torx bolts on the caliper.

I am no engineer, but I always thought it was because it's harder and more cost-prohibitive to machine a one-piece caliper for bikes so they are...

I am no engineer, but I always thought it was because it's harder and more cost-prohibitive to machine a one-piece caliper for bikes so they are made in 2 pieces and bolted together.  The larger the caliper the more bolts it needs to hold the two pieces together.  

I'm pretty sure Hope makes 1 piece calipers, I remember back in the day (early 2000's) that was one of the things that set them apart from other brakes.  

Basically that's it. Plus some say it's more rigid with this kind (bolted) of construction, can't exactly explain why tho'.

And yeah, it looks like we can add some mud protectors. But I think it's pushed on (EDIT : or better, a one-piece piece of metal or plastic clipped on), not bolted. Can't see a brake manufacturer asking for disasembling their caliper in order to just put some protections.

1
monarchmason
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Nevada City, CA US
2/8/2024 8:33am

Is the Maven suppose to be 4 pot or 6 pot? I saw someone mentioned 6 pot but I dont know if they were just screwing with us. 

Losifer
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Sandia Park, NM US
2/8/2024 8:57am
loris_74 wrote:
From YT Newsletter (Vali Bike check). "Maven" laser etching addition.

Capture d%E2%80%99%C3%A9cran 2024-02-08 134929.png?VersionId=From YT Newsletter (Vali Bike check). "Maven" laser etching addition.

Snfoilhat wrote:
?

IMG 3424.jpeg?VersionId=heSsZGUn8Y OZJXns8h?

exactly.

 

3
2/8/2024 10:12am

Based on the 'size' of the Maven that is over the rotor, it looks like a 4-pot brake. That said, the upper section above the rotor is seriously beefy. Assuming this is to increase stiffness (by a lot) and reduce heat built up (important for mineral oil). Also, maybe more fluid volume for power generation between lever and caliper---I'm not sure on the physics of this... Cascade Components might be able to chime in on the fluid volume lever vs. caliper calculation as they've talked about with their North Fork brake. One person earlier said it looks like they can remove the top part---that's just an optical illusion of the image/shadow. It's all one piece. We've seen it in a number of photos in red and black and it's all one (two) pieces. 

1
samdaman1
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2/8/2024 10:38am

On Paul Aston's page about brakes (https://astonmtb.com/all-about-brakes/) he claims that the code 'caliper heats up and expands, leaving a loose piston seal which allows too much rollback of the pistons when the lever is released. This gives the same effect as pushing the pistons back into the caliper and changing the bite point closer to the grip.' 

My guess is that SRAM are trying to address this by making a very stiff caliper on the Maven. 

1
1
2/8/2024 10:50am
Based on the 'size' of the Maven that is over the rotor, it looks like a 4-pot brake. That said, the upper section above the rotor...

Based on the 'size' of the Maven that is over the rotor, it looks like a 4-pot brake. That said, the upper section above the rotor is seriously beefy. Assuming this is to increase stiffness (by a lot) and reduce heat built up (important for mineral oil). Also, maybe more fluid volume for power generation between lever and caliper---I'm not sure on the physics of this... Cascade Components might be able to chime in on the fluid volume lever vs. caliper calculation as they've talked about with their North Fork brake. One person earlier said it looks like they can remove the top part---that's just an optical illusion of the image/shadow. It's all one piece. We've seen it in a number of photos in red and black and it's all one (two) pieces. 

Fluid volume itself doesn't necessarily mean more power. That's more dependent on the ratio of caliper piston area to master cylinder piston area. Adding fluid volume in the caliper does help with heat, but unless you make the caliper dissipate heat faster they'll still get hot eventually. This is why you see phenolic and ceramic caliper pistons. They insulate the caliper body from brake heat better than a stainless piston. 

12
Evil96
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802
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Portogruaro, VE IT
2/8/2024 10:50am
ggccvv wrote:

Sorry if that was asked before, but what is the purpose of the four horizontal torx bolts on the caliper.

Simcik wrote:
I assume it is a two piece caliper, those bolts are how it is bolted together. They did this with the original Code calipers in the...

I assume it is a two piece caliper, those bolts are how it is bolted together. They did this with the original Code calipers in the mid 2000's.

and then removed 2 bolts to increase stiffness and power, now they went back and it will be sold as the best thing ever, typical sram, one year they say black is the best, the next year white is the best and black was not so great. changing ideas randomly

2
1
2/8/2024 11:08am
samdaman1 wrote:
On Paul Aston's page about brakes (https://astonmtb.com/all-about-brakes/) he claims that the code 'caliper heats up and expands, leaving a loose piston seal which allows...

On Paul Aston's page about brakes (https://astonmtb.com/all-about-brakes/) he claims that the code 'caliper heats up and expands, leaving a loose piston seal which allows too much rollback of the pistons when the lever is released. This gives the same effect as pushing the pistons back into the caliper and changing the bite point closer to the grip.' 

My guess is that SRAM are trying to address this by making a very stiff caliper on the Maven. 

I don't believe that is what's really going on for a couple of reasons. 1, rubber generally expands much more than aluminum when heated so adding heat makes the seal fit tighter. 2, when designing our calipers we found that without compression played less of a roll with pad retract than you'd think. Too little compression creates sealing issues and too much increases risk of compression set. What I think is mostly likely causing what they are experiencing is super hard braking. That happens to usually correspond with lots of heat. Since seal deflection controls pad retract, if you apply crazy pressures you can get the seal to move up the piston a little bit, which in turn makes it retract a little more.

That said, it certainly looks like they are trying to stiffen the caliper. With our calipers were are kind of up against a stiffness limit where if we were to say we wanted bigger pitons we'd have to get creative to stiffen them up. Calipers spread more than you'd think under high brake pressures. You can easily hit line pressures of 3000psi. Any flex in the caliper yields a less crisp lever feel, which isn't a big deal with less powerful brakes, but as caliper piston to master cylinder piston ratio increases, you'd want to remove as much flex as possible so that you could stay away from decreasing pad retract until absolutely necessary. 

38
big b
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harrisburg, PA US
2/8/2024 11:12am

Feb 22nd Sram has some new products being released. I bet the brakes will be part of that.

10
2/8/2024 11:38am
big b wrote:

Feb 22nd Sram has some new products being released. I bet the brakes will be part of that.

Yea, looks like a Feb or March release at latest. As I stated before, Dario from Pinkbike has been testing them on his Frameworks enduro rig for the past few weeks. He caught wind we were discussing him in here and is now blacking out or cropping the calipers out on Strava, etc. Release is around the corner. 

7
1
dwhere
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dirty, DE US
2/8/2024 12:15pm
big b wrote:

Feb 22nd Sram has some new products being released. I bet the brakes will be part of that.

Yea, looks like a Feb or March release at latest. As I stated before, Dario from Pinkbike has been testing them on his Frameworks enduro rig...

Yea, looks like a Feb or March release at latest. As I stated before, Dario from Pinkbike has been testing them on his Frameworks enduro rig for the past few weeks. He caught wind we were discussing him in here and is now blacking out or cropping the calipers out on Strava, etc. Release is around the corner. 

they clearly wanted us looking. why else would you make the caliper red?

7
lickmycrinkle
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Beverly Hills, CA US
2/8/2024 12:27pm
jonkranked wrote:
on the other site's latest article about tire inserts, e13 revealed that they are developing their own.  whether or not it will be brought to market...

on the other site's latest article about tire inserts, e13 revealed that they are developing their own.  whether or not it will be brought to market time will tell.

I bet they'll find a way to fuck up an insert even.

20
7
2/8/2024 1:59pm

Once the maverns are released you will see the new dreadnoughts not long after.

12
WhoKnows
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Los Gatos, CA US
2/8/2024 8:32pm
samdaman1 wrote:
On Paul Aston's page about brakes (https://astonmtb.com/all-about-brakes/) he claims that the code 'caliper heats up and expands, leaving a loose piston seal which allows...

On Paul Aston's page about brakes (https://astonmtb.com/all-about-brakes/) he claims that the code 'caliper heats up and expands, leaving a loose piston seal which allows too much rollback of the pistons when the lever is released. This gives the same effect as pushing the pistons back into the caliper and changing the bite point closer to the grip.' 

My guess is that SRAM are trying to address this by making a very stiff caliper on the Maven. 

I don't believe that is what's really going on for a couple of reasons. 1, rubber generally expands much more than aluminum when heated so adding...

I don't believe that is what's really going on for a couple of reasons. 1, rubber generally expands much more than aluminum when heated so adding heat makes the seal fit tighter. 2, when designing our calipers we found that without compression played less of a roll with pad retract than you'd think. Too little compression creates sealing issues and too much increases risk of compression set. What I think is mostly likely causing what they are experiencing is super hard braking. That happens to usually correspond with lots of heat. Since seal deflection controls pad retract, if you apply crazy pressures you can get the seal to move up the piston a little bit, which in turn makes it retract a little more.

That said, it certainly looks like they are trying to stiffen the caliper. With our calipers were are kind of up against a stiffness limit where if we were to say we wanted bigger pitons we'd have to get creative to stiffen them up. Calipers spread more than you'd think under high brake pressures. You can easily hit line pressures of 3000psi. Any flex in the caliper yields a less crisp lever feel, which isn't a big deal with less powerful brakes, but as caliper piston to master cylinder piston ratio increases, you'd want to remove as much flex as possible so that you could stay away from decreasing pad retract until absolutely necessary. 

Does a one piece caliper help with this? Cost of production aside it should help a decent bit with not having to worry about the connection between the two pieces, hence why the mavens have multiply bolts up above the pads?

2
Evil96
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802
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Portogruaro, VE IT
2/8/2024 10:28pm
samdaman1 wrote:
On Paul Aston's page about brakes (https://astonmtb.com/all-about-brakes/) he claims that the code 'caliper heats up and expands, leaving a loose piston seal which allows...

On Paul Aston's page about brakes (https://astonmtb.com/all-about-brakes/) he claims that the code 'caliper heats up and expands, leaving a loose piston seal which allows too much rollback of the pistons when the lever is released. This gives the same effect as pushing the pistons back into the caliper and changing the bite point closer to the grip.' 

My guess is that SRAM are trying to address this by making a very stiff caliper on the Maven. 

I don't believe that is what's really going on for a couple of reasons. 1, rubber generally expands much more than aluminum when heated so adding...

I don't believe that is what's really going on for a couple of reasons. 1, rubber generally expands much more than aluminum when heated so adding heat makes the seal fit tighter. 2, when designing our calipers we found that without compression played less of a roll with pad retract than you'd think. Too little compression creates sealing issues and too much increases risk of compression set. What I think is mostly likely causing what they are experiencing is super hard braking. That happens to usually correspond with lots of heat. Since seal deflection controls pad retract, if you apply crazy pressures you can get the seal to move up the piston a little bit, which in turn makes it retract a little more.

That said, it certainly looks like they are trying to stiffen the caliper. With our calipers were are kind of up against a stiffness limit where if we were to say we wanted bigger pitons we'd have to get creative to stiffen them up. Calipers spread more than you'd think under high brake pressures. You can easily hit line pressures of 3000psi. Any flex in the caliper yields a less crisp lever feel, which isn't a big deal with less powerful brakes, but as caliper piston to master cylinder piston ratio increases, you'd want to remove as much flex as possible so that you could stay away from decreasing pad retract until absolutely necessary. 

WhoKnows wrote:
Does a one piece caliper help with this? Cost of production aside it should help a decent bit with not having to worry about the connection...

Does a one piece caliper help with this? Cost of production aside it should help a decent bit with not having to worry about the connection between the two pieces, hence why the mavens have multiply bolts up above the pads?

might be since the mt7 caliper is one of the best in the game and it's one piece

4
7
2/8/2024 10:51pm
WhoKnows wrote:
Does a one piece caliper help with this? Cost of production aside it should help a decent bit with not having to worry about the connection...

Does a one piece caliper help with this? Cost of production aside it should help a decent bit with not having to worry about the connection between the two pieces, hence why the mavens have multiply bolts up above the pads?

From my experience with calipers, bolted vs mono block isn’t all that important as long as the bolted interface is done properly. That entails getting the fasteners as close to the rotor as possible and maximizing contact area between the two halves. Most the deflection should be between the joint/bridge and the bottom edge of the caliper regardless of how it’s constructed. In my mind for bikes, most the benefit of a mono block lies in packaging. Not having to worry about big bolts frees up space. The bridge across the center of magura calipers would be hard to fit in with a bolt if it were two piece without forgoing top loading pads, which leads you to exactly where these sram brakes are. With the calipers we make, we are up against the post mount standard when it comes to being able to fit in the two pistons plus an adequately large bolted interface. From a manufacturing standpoint, I like two piece more because you can use the same tool to finish the seal groove on either side which guarantees they always match. I’ve always found if you want two features to be truly identical you best use the same tool for both. 

29
2/8/2024 11:10pm

I can’t add much but I met Harriet Harnden and her mechanic at Dyfi a few months ago, got chatting in the uplift truck. She had the Mavens on her Trek Slash. I asked about whether they were what I thought they were and just got a smile and a ‘maybe’ 😂 

They’re noticeably ‘beefier’ looking than the Codes, comparable in size to the Dominion or Hope V4 I’d reckon. Had what looked like the standard Code RSC levers, the newer ones that sit closer to the bar.

8
Primoz
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SI
2/8/2024 11:11pm

Comments like this can never have enough likes. 

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