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The Vital MTB Crew
Hey now be nice, robots are people too!
he’s not anti eeb he’s genuinely curious and brand new to this and the way he’s worded all of it belies no opinion whatsoever
truly just asking questions bro!
It’s a troll post from a fragile fast guy. It’s human nature to center oneself, we all do it from time to time. I like El Robotman but he’s burnt on this one, I agree. That’s fine.
i wish I was riding too.
When i was “industry” i used to sell my bikes every year and get the newwest shit and I felt like it was important because I was racing in the bikes were getting better every year. Now obviously this has changed and our bikes are pretty much the same every year and I only need to sell them used when I’m ready for a whole new complete or I find some smoking deal because I’m not “industry” anymore. Back in the day yada yada yada dad problems….
but I have watched the E bike thing from the very beginning as a person who enjoys riding motorcycles, and believes, of course, that inevitably we will have a hard time getting bikes without motors ((unless we buy them from custom framebuilders because we are antiques and we are Luddites just like the bikes we prefer))). “” here it comes the wave of Ebikes “” they all keep telling us…..
But then I noticed something :I noticed waves of disgruntled customers in the shops.
And so many horror stories and massive price increases. I got to say, it looks like really really really really good bikes are coming down the line, both pedal or electric powered but the bikes right now with no motors are pretty incredible. And the bikes with motors have a lot of opportunity to create headaches, and I did move to a part of the world where I can only ride about six months of the year. If I’m pretty hard charging, and the idea of a motor or a controller costing me half that time not to mention the money, well it just keeps me from pulling the trigger, using the credit card, saving all winter, and making it happen no matter what- like I did for my regular mountain bikes for 20+ years now.
custom spire build, modern geo, reliable and easy to service parts, kinda just keeps working. Bad ass ktm 10 years old, gets shop,service every 5k miles and just keeps working. Order parts when needed, put them on, call a pro when its nasty repair shit over my head.
i can honestly say that im a perfect candidate for an ebike. But the tech and access for motorcycle type repair ( like the guy that owns his KTM for eight years and keeps fixing it and ridingit) isnt there, and thats where the big brands are failing.
I heard that specialized is training motorcycle dealerships to repair there motors because that’s where they expect people to take these engines for the service
To be honest, that kind of makes sense…..
Yeah, in my opinion the upgrade to EP8 doesn't make that much sense if you like the characteristic of the e8000. Also the EP8 rattles more than the e8000. Depending on the frame you can have a pretty siltent bike with the e8000 but not so much with the EP8 or EP801. An upgrade thats well worth it would be from e7000 to e8000 without having to change cables. If you use the bigger battery BT-8016 there is also a more solid metal mount but you can also use the old one if you remove some plastic.
Also the software customizability of the shimano motors with Stunlocker and Emax is pretty good! For installing a new motor you need to buy the stunlocker app for like 30€ or Emax which is more expensive but also has more features and better support.
earbuds are the best solution to shimano motor rattle noise or, well, lack of, in the case of the Judas Priest rocking Procor brobrah shredder Doode.
I said this in the other thread and will say it here. I have never purchased a bike thinking how much I will sell it for. My friend does that because he owns a bike shop and that is what he does to make a living. I buy based on want or need. I ride the crap out of it and it is worth what it is worth when (IF) I decide to sell it. My basement says I don't sell very many bikes, wife reminds me of this as well. Same goes for cars or my house. I need a truck and buy it based on what I like and when the time comes to replace it I hope for the best on a trade in. House is worth more than I could imagine but if I sold it I can't afford to buy anything else so it's perceived value is not really a difference to me.
I do try to get the best deal possible when buying a bike.
A.I. says:
Dude what fork is that
I'm waiting until technology advances more. In particular I want to see a Pinion Smart Shift gearbox integrated with the motor. By the time that happens I might have enough cash to afford one.
those guys can get you most parts to repair a bosch motor:
https://ebike-doktor.de/shop/index.php?route=product/category&path=25&p…
I just ordered a Polygon Colosus N8E for $4100 out the door, it seems spec'ed pretty good for that price. I work on my own bikes and have an electronics background, so not worried about working on it. I like Shimano, so we'll see how it goes.
Looks really good! Would be interesting to know the weight. It sucks that the ep8 rattles though.
Weight for a medium is listed as 56.4lbs, I'll get an official weight after building it. I haven't heard about the rattling on other reviews of the EP801, everyone talks about how quite it is?
good name, that thing looks absolutely gigantic
I guess I'm lucky but the ep8 on my timp peak doesnt rattle, or at least i never hear it.
The Polygon looks like a really nice bike for the price.
Its always a bit murky as some reviews don't mention the rattle and some people say their motor doesn't rattle while you can basically reproduce the rattle on the bosch and shimano motors by swinging the crank arm back and forth in small increments with your hand. How noticeable the rattle is depends on the kinematics and material/shape of the frame. Usually carbon frames seem to make it louder. Some people claim it got better with the ep 801 but many also say it just rattles like the ep8. But you got to keep in mind that with such noises its subjective how distracting it is.
Its also more noticeable if you are used to silent bikes and suddenly ride a rattling bike.
https://youtu.be/TprlteP5w00?feature=shared
https://youtu.be/fXlg-NLzgE8?feature=shared
Mine doesn't have any rattle, we'll see after I get some milage on it but currently it's silent, the only noise is from the freehub.
Mine’s a deadened rattle, halfway between a clunk and a thock. Took about 22 minutes to disappear in my brain.
Like chickens on Kauai. From impossible to background noise really quickly.
My grandma talked about you guys. “Won’t be happy in heaven.”
The 801 is supposed to have "fixed" the rattle. It's still there, just less noticeable.
I was looking forward to people even trying to dispute that their eeb's won't wind up as acid in a landfill, but you guys aren't even close to on topic.
That makes little sense considering we're on an american website where everyone carries their bike to the trailhead in ridiculous trucks...
I never look at how my toy purchases will resale, dirt bikes, mountain bikes, Jeeps, trucks... I look at is as will the purchase price be worth it over the expected life span of said toy. Any money made at the end of life is a bonus! If I didn't think it was worth it I wouldn't have bought it. I hadn't bought an ebike yet because they were stupid expensive, but with the sales happening now I picked up a badass bike for $3999, so it became worth it.
Interesting although you did the test with a bit more movement. Do you really not hear any rattle if you push the bike slowy rolling forward while doing it so to relieve chain tension or when you coast down a trail?
I did that much movement because I was trying to get it to rattle. There were several minutes before filming and it doesn't matter how slow or fast, there's no rattle. As soon as you stop pedaling it's silent other than the freehub. On a ride yesterday there were a bunch of downhill sections with chattery rocks, horse hoof prints, roots, rain ruts, and no rattle anywhere on the trail. I did notice a little vibration at certain cadence and load, but no noise. I'll definitely keep tabs on it though, I'm pretty sensitive to noises and vibrations. I'll tear apart a car dash to tape something that most people never hear...
Really interesting! The only thing keeping me from pulling the trigger on a orbea rise is the rattle (and maybe the non removable battery but should be manageable). But its kinda weird that I read and hear accounts like the video I linked above that say and show that at least some ep801 rattle similar to their predecessor.
My disdane for e bikes was real.
Decided to retire from my offroad moto career after 50 years. Selling the KTM 300XCW and gear.
My MTB riding buddy bought a Pivot LT. After berating him mercilessly for months he brought it over to test ride. Being 62 and on the clock for a new left knee. I know my moto days were over, its tough to face it though. But 3 weeks to recover from a single 80-mile moto day showed me nobody beats father time.
The E bike rabbit hole is deep. I am a Mech Engineer, so this stuff is interesting to me. The motors are pretty simple and require a hydraulic press to rebuild. HF has them for cheap. Just need a source for bearings and bushings/shafts that wear out.
Came close to pulling the trigger on a POLE Voima with a Bosch Race motor. But dealing with them in Finland is a bit difficult. You cannot get a timely email thread going with them to answer questions. There frames and design/production methods look amazing though.
Besides drivetrain wear seems to be a huge issue and as a 230lb rider, this is an issue with analog bikes, much less E bikes.
After exchanging emails with Nicolai. I am going full retard on a new build from them using a Pinion E1.12 and Gates Carbon belt drive. This package addresses all the concerns from a wear and tear, maintenance perspective with these bikes. Ohlins/EXT suspension. Hope V4/Vented rotors. This thing will be solid, almost like my 300. The biggest concern I have is having enough H2O on the bike for my dog. None of these battery placements will allow the mfgs to place bottle mounts under the DT.
If the thing blows up, I will crack it open and get to work. We'll see how it goes. But the battery and e-motor concerns are real. Spare 960WH batteries are $1K! Always wanted a Nicolai but could never pull the trigger. I am lying to my wife how much this shit costs. But that is normal.
Exactly.
I got really lucky with buying a Relay because I find it to be just perfect for me for my 1 one e-bike, and my first. If I had bought the Trek (not enough power or battery or travel and just as heavy) or the Levo SL (slack STA and short CS length) I'd already be looking at selling them as I've ridden them since and not at all stoked on those products.
Usually, I begin to find faults with my new bikes immediately, but I love the frame/ motor/ battery on this unit and have no wishes for anything different.
So, I dropped nearly $3K into the suspension (ordered a new Mezzer & a new Bomber CR and sent to Craig at Avy to work his magic on) and intend to ride this bike for many years or until there is some serious improvements in the technology or I'm just so old (I'm 52 now) that I need a full power e-bike to function out there.
I've been swapping high end bikes on the regular for years now but I'm just so stoked on both my Relay and my '23 Smuggler that I see myself settling down with these bikes for years, something I've never said about a bike before.
F*ck resale, 'cause I don't care for once!
Look, in the end hobbies take time and money, and the time is the 'expensive' part of that equation. My $8.5K e-bike will probably cost me $200/ per month in depreciation when I'm done with it. Much cheaper than new motorcycles, cars, hot tubs, and a million other things I've wasted money on. Whatever.
As far as keeping them running, there really isn't much to them. A battery, a controller & a motor. Batteries and electric motors are commonly refurbished and rebuilt and I expect Fauza parts to be off the shelf available for a decade or longer and even besides aftermarket rebuilders will step in.
The big downside that is real, is losing part of a riding season or even wrecking a bike trip due to a down e-bike is the largest downside that I see.
For the record, I still prefer riding my bike over the e-bike overall. However, the e-bike makes the tough Enduro tracks with tough climbs more enjoyable for sure overall.
So...all you Cali guys...is this guy on his Class 250 e-bike poaching bike/hike trails?
Or can you just go down the street and hit this stuff he's filming on a XR100?
https://youtu.be/I5jqlZ4RnhY?si=Bs2_Hg7y6_sWckIl&t=778
I don't know anything about trail systems in Cali, but in NC/SC, you can tell if you're on a moto trail or a bike/hike/horse trail.
And no, there's no place where a moto can be on a multi-use trail here.
I blame you all for this video popping into my feed.
But it also is how I see things going. "Bike" parks all don't allow motors, but if the eebs like this cost less or the same as your electric mopeds, won't be long before people skip mopeds, go to these, and bike parks shift to catering to motos (electric motos).
Yep- My fear is this will justify a high level of LE to the trails. They should start on the street first. 12yo on Surrron's everywhere here in Nocal. No enforcement. But I remember when they would hover in Heli's BITD to bust a MTB rider for using a cow trail that wasn't marked as MTB. It will make it very unpleasant.
I could see myself using my mantra of redundancy (engineers love redundancy) and purchasing a spare battery and motor and putting it on the shelf for the inevitable "issue". I have seen Bosch motors and Shimano posted on Ebay for a few hundy. Totally doable. Might have to source Ebay in DE for a Pinion though.
Sur Ronster will be flattened by the time he has enough dirt skill to ruin a cool dirt trail...great youtuber, nice channel, watch it before he's gone...
um but no, he appears unconcerned with traffic laws--where the rules are way clearer and enforceable than MTB--can't imagine he's worried about trails at all.
He's great though. If I were in my 20s and childless I'd be doing the same shit. Imagine paying your bills with 2 wheel hooliganism. Fantastic.
Post a reply to: Honest question for e-bike buyers: What's your long term ownership strategy when you buy an e-bike?