MTB Tech Rumors and Innovation

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Dave_Camp
Posts
460
Joined
8/25/2009
Location
CO US
8/17/2023 4:24pm
The service manual has the how-to installation, might tell you something. Yay to another single use speciality tool!

The service manual has the how-to installation, might tell you something. Yay to another single use speciality tool!

image-20230817160635-1

You can do it with 2 crescent wrenches and some patience.

 

the tool helps but not 100% required 

12
1
1llumA
Posts
212
Joined
3/11/2020
Location
CA
8/17/2023 6:34pm

The new vivid has the option to  upgrade the reservoir to go from a select or select+ to ultimate version. I am curious if the same is possible for the Superdeluxe ? I know the ultimate version of the SD reservoir are available as separate purchase but nowhere it says if it's possible and compatible. -A select+ SD air owner that would love to upgrade to ultimate without having to buy a new tuned shock.

1
Primoz
Posts
4519
Joined
8/1/2009
Location
SI
8/17/2023 11:11pm Edited Date/Time 8/18/2023 2:03am
Primoz wrote:
Needle bearings carry a lot of load for their size (the surface area of the race and rolling element contacting each other is high, thus the...

Needle bearings carry a lot of load for their size (the surface area of the race and rolling element contacting each other is high, thus the pressures are low), but there are hardly any needle bearings out there that come as a cartridge, with seals, they don't carry axial loads (deep groove ball bearings hold up surprisingly well in that regard), etc.

For specific applications they can be great. In a shock eyelet I'd give them a pass. DU bushings are way too cheap and modern bearing mounts work too well (I'm on my original bearings in my Super Deluxe after 4 and a half seasons and 450+k vertical meters of descending).

Lefty had needle beerings for that reason.

Lefty had needle beerings for that reason.

image-20230817141802-1

In this case I think it might have to do with manufacturability too. Machining a square tube and slapping some hard steel on it is easy compared to machining grooves for balls and needle bearings also give torsional support so you can actually steer with the single stanchion fork.

And it's also smooth as hell compared to bushings (apparently). 

1
8/18/2023 10:02am

For the 65mm stroke vivid, claimed weight is 670 grams. I just weighed my Cane Creek IL with a 450-550# coil on it, 63mm stroke. It is 720 grams. The EXT Storia is lighter for this size, but I don't remember off the top of my head the exact weight. Kinda kills the point of an air shock for me if I'm only saving 50 grams. 

2
3
8/18/2023 2:11pm
For the 65mm stroke vivid, claimed weight is 670 grams. I just weighed my Cane Creek IL with a 450-550# coil on it, 63mm stroke. It...

For the 65mm stroke vivid, claimed weight is 670 grams. I just weighed my Cane Creek IL with a 450-550# coil on it, 63mm stroke. It is 720 grams. The EXT Storia is lighter for this size, but I don't remember off the top of my head the exact weight. Kinda kills the point of an air shock for me if I'm only saving 50 grams. 

Blister claims 703g for an 8.5 x 2.5" Storia V3 with a 375# spring, so I'd assume the EXT with a spring that would fit you would still be a fair bit heavier than the Vivid. It still isn't terribly far off if you have a light spring weight, though, which is interesting. 

1
One Ghost
Posts
159
Joined
8/1/2009
Location
Tacoma, WA US
8/18/2023 2:31pm
Shreddy wrote:
Very affordable shredder. https://www.mtb-news.de/news/rose-scrub-erster-test/
krabo83 wrote:

alu gt fury… hope it‘s more durable 😅

krabo83 wrote:
to those who downvoted me, ask roger viera ;)  

to those who downvoted me, ask roger viera Wink

 

IMG 9164 0

I'm just happy he walked away from that. I've got one of those bikes and am not too worried about it. Though I am wondering if the green ones may be cursed. Wyn was on a green one when he crashed and broke his hand, Roger was on a green one. None of the other riders have had any issues (none others are on green ones) things that make you go hmm Whistling

1
8/18/2023 2:32pm Edited Date/Time 8/18/2023 2:39pm
For the 65mm stroke vivid, claimed weight is 670 grams. I just weighed my Cane Creek IL with a 450-550# coil on it, 63mm stroke. It...

For the 65mm stroke vivid, claimed weight is 670 grams. I just weighed my Cane Creek IL with a 450-550# coil on it, 63mm stroke. It is 720 grams. The EXT Storia is lighter for this size, but I don't remember off the top of my head the exact weight. Kinda kills the point of an air shock for me if I'm only saving 50 grams. 

Are you seriously worried about 50g difference in shock weight on a 63mm stroke shock? I could cut my hair and lose 50g 😂

In my case where in the total system, the bike is maybe 20% of the weight, 50g especially on a performance suspension component is a trade off I’m willing to take.

6
sspomer
Posts
6030
Joined
6/26/2009
Location
Boise, ID US
8/18/2023 2:47pm

We Are One on the Inside Line is up - Dustin discusses racing and life and the second half is about the company, non-overseas production, products, future etc. on youtube (slideshow, not video of interview) or podcast channels too.

https://www.vitalmtb.com/features/we-are-one-inside-line-mountain-bike-…

WeAreOneA.jpg?VersionId=Fgpw8UN hld5YJb3eLErt

7
boozed
Posts
646
Joined
6/11/2019
Location
AU
8/18/2023 4:25pm Edited Date/Time 8/18/2023 9:05pm
For the 65mm stroke vivid, claimed weight is 670 grams. I just weighed my Cane Creek IL with a 450-550# coil on it, 63mm stroke. It...

For the 65mm stroke vivid, claimed weight is 670 grams. I just weighed my Cane Creek IL with a 450-550# coil on it, 63mm stroke. It is 720 grams. The EXT Storia is lighter for this size, but I don't remember off the top of my head the exact weight. Kinda kills the point of an air shock for me if I'm only saving 50 grams. 

The 205 mm 2021 X2 I have here weighs 663 g with hardware and one spacer.  The 2021 Super Deluxe Coil that replaced it on my bike is somewhere around 900 g, give or take, with a standard Rockshox 79 N/mm spring.

monarchmason
Posts
285
Joined
5/24/2022
Location
Nevada City, CA US
8/18/2023 5:28pm
Primoz wrote:
Needle bearings carry a lot of load for their size (the surface area of the race and rolling element contacting each other is high, thus the...

Needle bearings carry a lot of load for their size (the surface area of the race and rolling element contacting each other is high, thus the pressures are low), but there are hardly any needle bearings out there that come as a cartridge, with seals, they don't carry axial loads (deep groove ball bearings hold up surprisingly well in that regard), etc.

For specific applications they can be great. In a shock eyelet I'd give them a pass. DU bushings are way too cheap and modern bearing mounts work too well (I'm on my original bearings in my Super Deluxe after 4 and a half seasons and 450+k vertical meters of descending).

Lefty had needle beerings for that reason.

Lefty had needle beerings for that reason.

image-20230817141802-1

Im probably going to get ripped apart for this, but it really surprises me that we do not have more forks like the Lefty or the Intend Bandit. It was not perfect, but given the more recent capabilities in manufacturing, we could probably make it a lot better these days. Ive heard from many (at the time) that when it was working normally, the last iteration of the Lefty was awesome. 
I know some hate the look of them, but we for some reason we have accepted massive pregnant downtube bikes to be a thing, kind of. Maybe Im not disturbed by lefty because I have not very symmetric body so its okay with me. I dont know just has me wondering. 

7
dolface
Posts
1657
Joined
10/26/2015
Location
CA US
8/18/2023 5:54pm
Im probably going to get ripped apart for this, but it really surprises me that we do not have more forks like the Lefty or the...

Im probably going to get ripped apart for this, but it really surprises me that we do not have more forks like the Lefty or the Intend Bandit. It was not perfect, but given the more recent capabilities in manufacturing, we could probably make it a lot better these days. Ive heard from many (at the time) that when it was working normally, the last iteration of the Lefty was awesome. 
I know some hate the look of them, but we for some reason we have accepted massive pregnant downtube bikes to be a thing, kind of. Maybe Im not disturbed by lefty because I have not very symmetric body so its okay with me. I dont know just has me wondering. 

Bikers: We want innovation!

Also bikers: Not THAT much innovation!

14
monarchmason
Posts
285
Joined
5/24/2022
Location
Nevada City, CA US
8/18/2023 6:01pm
dolface wrote:

Bikers: We want innovation!

Also bikers: Not THAT much innovation!

Really bugs me that aesthetics dictate so much with mountain biking. 

9
8/18/2023 7:33pm

I snagged photos of a few slalom bikes from the Strait Acres Slalom Invitational happening today/tomorrow for those who also love seeing how people mod bikes for such a specialized form of racing. 

https://www.vitalmtb.com/photos/features/slalom-bikes-2023-strait-acres…

Personal fav - Mitch Ropelato's custom Cannondale / Kyle Strait's custom Vitus / Cody Kelley's Spesh Stumpjumper

image-20230818193237-1

image-20230818193252-2

image-20230818193317-3

13
1
lando
Posts
75
Joined
4/6/2017
Location
Missoula, MT US
8/19/2023 10:15am
sspomer wrote:
We Are One on the Inside Line is up - Dustin discusses racing and life and the second half is about the company, non-overseas production, products...

We Are One on the Inside Line is up - Dustin discusses racing and life and the second half is about the company, non-overseas production, products, future etc. on youtube (slideshow, not video of interview) or podcast channels too.

https://www.vitalmtb.com/features/we-are-one-inside-line-mountain-bike-…

WeAreOneA.jpg?VersionId=Fgpw8UN hld5YJb3eLErt

WR1 cranks and hubs?! Take my money now!

4
Onawalk
Posts
344
Joined
7/5/2021
Location
CA
8/19/2023 1:29pm
For the 65mm stroke vivid, claimed weight is 670 grams. I just weighed my Cane Creek IL with a 450-550# coil on it, 63mm stroke. It...

For the 65mm stroke vivid, claimed weight is 670 grams. I just weighed my Cane Creek IL with a 450-550# coil on it, 63mm stroke. It is 720 grams. The EXT Storia is lighter for this size, but I don't remember off the top of my head the exact weight. Kinda kills the point of an air shock for me if I'm only saving 50 grams. 

If my vest had sleeves, it would be a jacket….

you’re comparing a coil in-line shock designed for a Spur, with an air shock (with piggyback) designed for a Spire or TR-11, and are surprised that they are in fact close on weight?

 

10
3
HexonJuan
Posts
375
Joined
6/10/2015
Location
WI US
8/20/2023 12:29pm
Im probably going to get ripped apart for this, but it really surprises me that we do not have more forks like the Lefty or the...

Im probably going to get ripped apart for this, but it really surprises me that we do not have more forks like the Lefty or the Intend Bandit. It was not perfect, but given the more recent capabilities in manufacturing, we could probably make it a lot better these days. Ive heard from many (at the time) that when it was working normally, the last iteration of the Lefty was awesome. 
I know some hate the look of them, but we for some reason we have accepted massive pregnant downtube bikes to be a thing, kind of. Maybe Im not disturbed by lefty because I have not very symmetric body so its okay with me. I dont know just has me wondering. 

dolface wrote:

Bikers: We want innovation!

Also bikers: Not THAT much innovation!

See Also: Linkage forks.

10
dolface
Posts
1657
Joined
10/26/2015
Location
CA US
8/20/2023 12:59pm
lando wrote:

WR1 cranks and hubs?! Take my money now!

Dustin seemed pretty solid that they were NOT going to be making hubs iirc...

Spinthatup
Posts
1
Joined
8/20/2023
Location
CARRUM DOWNS;VIC, VIC AU
8/20/2023 6:22pm Edited Date/Time 8/20/2023 6:23pm
For the 65mm stroke vivid, claimed weight is 670 grams. I just weighed my Cane Creek IL with a 450-550# coil on it, 63mm stroke. It...

For the 65mm stroke vivid, claimed weight is 670 grams. I just weighed my Cane Creek IL with a 450-550# coil on it, 63mm stroke. It is 720 grams. The EXT Storia is lighter for this size, but I don't remember off the top of my head the exact weight. Kinda kills the point of an air shock for me if I'm only saving 50 grams. 

boozed wrote:
The 205 mm 2021 X2 I have here weighs 663 g with hardware and one spacer.  The 2021 Super Deluxe Coil that replaced it on my...

The 205 mm 2021 X2 I have here weighs 663 g with hardware and one spacer.  The 2021 Super Deluxe Coil that replaced it on my bike is somewhere around 900 g, give or take, with a standard Rockshox 79 N/mm spring.

Can confirm my 210x55 Vivid with Levo mounting hardware weighed in at 674.4 grams. Supr Deluxe Air weighed in at 478 grams for the same length. 

My 230x65 Super Deluxe Coil with RS coil (500 pound) came in at 1,040 grams

4
boozed
Posts
646
Joined
6/11/2019
Location
AU
8/21/2023 1:14am
For the 65mm stroke vivid, claimed weight is 670 grams. I just weighed my Cane Creek IL with a 450-550# coil on it, 63mm stroke. It...

For the 65mm stroke vivid, claimed weight is 670 grams. I just weighed my Cane Creek IL with a 450-550# coil on it, 63mm stroke. It is 720 grams. The EXT Storia is lighter for this size, but I don't remember off the top of my head the exact weight. Kinda kills the point of an air shock for me if I'm only saving 50 grams. 

boozed wrote:
The 205 mm 2021 X2 I have here weighs 663 g with hardware and one spacer.  The 2021 Super Deluxe Coil that replaced it on my...

The 205 mm 2021 X2 I have here weighs 663 g with hardware and one spacer.  The 2021 Super Deluxe Coil that replaced it on my bike is somewhere around 900 g, give or take, with a standard Rockshox 79 N/mm spring.

Spinthatup wrote:
Can confirm my 210x55 Vivid with Levo mounting hardware weighed in at 674.4 grams. Supr Deluxe Air weighed in at 478 grams for the same length. ...

Can confirm my 210x55 Vivid with Levo mounting hardware weighed in at 674.4 grams. Supr Deluxe Air weighed in at 478 grams for the same length. 

My 230x65 Super Deluxe Coil with RS coil (500 pound) came in at 1,040 grams

Blimey, I got off lightly...

...

Sorry.  Does anyone have any news on a new Scott Ransom?

1
kcy4130
Posts
319
Joined
7/14/2021
Location
MT US
8/21/2023 6:05am Edited Date/Time 8/21/2023 6:10am
Im probably going to get ripped apart for this, but it really surprises me that we do not have more forks like the Lefty or the...

Im probably going to get ripped apart for this, but it really surprises me that we do not have more forks like the Lefty or the Intend Bandit. It was not perfect, but given the more recent capabilities in manufacturing, we could probably make it a lot better these days. Ive heard from many (at the time) that when it was working normally, the last iteration of the Lefty was awesome. 
I know some hate the look of them, but we for some reason we have accepted massive pregnant downtube bikes to be a thing, kind of. Maybe Im not disturbed by lefty because I have not very symmetric body so its okay with me. I dont know just has me wondering. 

I think the main drawback with the lefty is that damper and airspring have to be on the same side in the same tube. That puts a lot of limitations on the designs and sizing of both, I believe. Might also complicate servicing. Some people swear by them, I've never ridden one so have no idea? Why do normal two legged forks not use needle bearings instead of bushings? Achieving the tight tolerances and near mirror finish required is easier on a shaft and bushing than three (or four) flats and corresponding housing. Two legs would have to be aligned and clocked instead of just aligned. Thus more chances for binding or added friction, the tolerancing would be a nightmare. Also needle bearings would have to run on hardended and polished steel inserts, aluminum just can't take the surface pressure from them. So weight and even more complicated manufacturing. That's why bushings are the norm. 

Edit: lefty size limitations are worsened as fork travel increases as well. Probably why lefty stayed in the xc to trail realm. Out of curiosity anyone know what the longest travel lefty was? 

2
dolface
Posts
1657
Joined
10/26/2015
Location
CA US
8/21/2023 6:54am
kcy4130 wrote:
I think the main drawback with the lefty is that damper and airspring have to be on the same side in the same tube. That puts...

I think the main drawback with the lefty is that damper and airspring have to be on the same side in the same tube. That puts a lot of limitations on the designs and sizing of both, I believe. Might also complicate servicing. Some people swear by them, I've never ridden one so have no idea? Why do normal two legged forks not use needle bearings instead of bushings? Achieving the tight tolerances and near mirror finish required is easier on a shaft and bushing than three (or four) flats and corresponding housing. Two legs would have to be aligned and clocked instead of just aligned. Thus more chances for binding or added friction, the tolerancing would be a nightmare. Also needle bearings would have to run on hardended and polished steel inserts, aluminum just can't take the surface pressure from them. So weight and even more complicated manufacturing. That's why bushings are the norm. 

Edit: lefty size limitations are worsened as fork travel increases as well. Probably why lefty stayed in the xc to trail realm. Out of curiosity anyone know what the longest travel lefty was? 

I think the Lefty Max went to 140mm...

2
1
monarchmason
Posts
285
Joined
5/24/2022
Location
Nevada City, CA US
8/21/2023 7:54am
Im probably going to get ripped apart for this, but it really surprises me that we do not have more forks like the Lefty or the...

Im probably going to get ripped apart for this, but it really surprises me that we do not have more forks like the Lefty or the Intend Bandit. It was not perfect, but given the more recent capabilities in manufacturing, we could probably make it a lot better these days. Ive heard from many (at the time) that when it was working normally, the last iteration of the Lefty was awesome. 
I know some hate the look of them, but we for some reason we have accepted massive pregnant downtube bikes to be a thing, kind of. Maybe Im not disturbed by lefty because I have not very symmetric body so its okay with me. I dont know just has me wondering. 

kcy4130 wrote:
I think the main drawback with the lefty is that damper and airspring have to be on the same side in the same tube. That puts...

I think the main drawback with the lefty is that damper and airspring have to be on the same side in the same tube. That puts a lot of limitations on the designs and sizing of both, I believe. Might also complicate servicing. Some people swear by them, I've never ridden one so have no idea? Why do normal two legged forks not use needle bearings instead of bushings? Achieving the tight tolerances and near mirror finish required is easier on a shaft and bushing than three (or four) flats and corresponding housing. Two legs would have to be aligned and clocked instead of just aligned. Thus more chances for binding or added friction, the tolerancing would be a nightmare. Also needle bearings would have to run on hardended and polished steel inserts, aluminum just can't take the surface pressure from them. So weight and even more complicated manufacturing. That's why bushings are the norm. 

Edit: lefty size limitations are worsened as fork travel increases as well. Probably why lefty stayed in the xc to trail realm. Out of curiosity anyone know what the longest travel lefty was? 

Supermax was at 160 for the Jekyll. All that makes sense. But I know with mordern manufacturing it is doable. Hell, they could add a Vorsprung secus like, negative chamber. Just seems like a good way to go when you want to make a very precise feeling fork, keeping weight down, and making it strong. Or even then, intend bandit. That one definitely surprises me that we do not utilize that sort of design more often. Having a Zeb lower with an air shaft side Boxxer stanchion. Id buy that for rough trail riding. 

2
Primoz
Posts
4519
Joined
8/1/2009
Location
SI
8/21/2023 8:02am

A lot of things are "easily" doable, modern capabilities or not. The limiting factor more often than not becomes the price. 

7
Onawalk
Posts
344
Joined
7/5/2021
Location
CA
8/21/2023 1:02pm
Primoz wrote:

A lot of things are "easily" doable, modern capabilities or not. The limiting factor more often than not becomes the price. 

$2500 “transmissions” would lead me to believe that price isn’t actually the limiting factor, marketability, aesthetics, and what they think will sell likely has more to do with it.

How many people do we see riding around on factory level suspension that don’t actually know how to, or ever bother to check suspension sag.  Price can’t be the issue

15
Primoz
Posts
4519
Joined
8/1/2009
Location
SI
8/21/2023 1:07pm

I'm guessing 'bzt bzt' sounds are much more easily sold than buttery smooth suspension. Can't see/hear the buttery smooth suspension. And your factory level suspension comment confirms it even more Tongue

3
nicompr
Posts
55
Joined
12/9/2021
Location
Villes FR
8/22/2023 5:20am

New Lapierre Spicy incoming. 29 or MX, 180 front and rear and suspension layout à la new Mondraker Summum. Price will be high and no pros ridden it yet...

7
1
One Ghost
Posts
159
Joined
8/1/2009
Location
Tacoma, WA US
8/22/2023 9:23am
Im probably going to get ripped apart for this, but it really surprises me that we do not have more forks like the Lefty or the...

Im probably going to get ripped apart for this, but it really surprises me that we do not have more forks like the Lefty or the Intend Bandit. It was not perfect, but given the more recent capabilities in manufacturing, we could probably make it a lot better these days. Ive heard from many (at the time) that when it was working normally, the last iteration of the Lefty was awesome. 
I know some hate the look of them, but we for some reason we have accepted massive pregnant downtube bikes to be a thing, kind of. Maybe Im not disturbed by lefty because I have not very symmetric body so its okay with me. I dont know just has me wondering. 

dolface wrote:

Bikers: We want innovation!

Also bikers: Not THAT much innovation!

HexonJuan wrote:

See Also: Linkage forks.

Specialized does own the Trust design now. Though my guess is we will see that on gravel bikes from them. 

7
8/23/2023 6:35am
Primoz wrote:
I'm guessing 'bzt bzt' sounds are much more easily sold than buttery smooth suspension. Can't see/hear the buttery smooth suspension. And your factory level suspension comment...

I'm guessing 'bzt bzt' sounds are much more easily sold than buttery smooth suspension. Can't see/hear the buttery smooth suspension. And your factory level suspension comment confirms it even more Tongue

Clearly the next big innovation in forks from rockshox will be a stanchion coating you can ice skate over ;p

2
sspomer
Posts
6030
Joined
6/26/2009
Location
Boise, ID US
8/23/2023 10:20am

pit  bits andorra

 

4
sharpy212
Posts
232
Joined
12/18/2015
Location
GB
8/23/2023 11:05am

Ergon grips on TB bikes look like something new 

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