MTB Tech Rumors and Innovation

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veefour
Posts
851
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Cinderford GB
5/8/2023 11:00pm Edited Date/Time 5/8/2023 11:01pm
This PB???

This PB???Tongue

Nah, thread notifications actually work here.

1
5/8/2023 11:55pm
Lots of great information and thoughts @Erwan, @shortestcharles ! I agree, there’s tons of factors that could cause this balance feel and no way to really...

Lots of great information and thoughts @Erwan, @shortestcharles ! I agree, there’s tons of factors that could cause this balance feel and no way to really pin point one. It’s just a similar feel that I’ve gotten on a few bikes that have a Virtual Pivot point vs the Trek session with a single pivot. All just speculation and nerding out on why/how bikes behave.

 I’ve asked some frame designers and some believe the rider can feel the migrating pivot point, but very hard to prove it.

The only reason I compare the V5 vs. session, so much is because geo wise they are veryyyy close. The Kinematics(leverage, AR, AS) are pretty different but the axle path both move rearward about 10mm then forward to 0mm.

If it AR was the culprit you would feel the Session has having less stable of a balance than the V5. Could just be the leverage progression, V5 has around 38% vs 25% for the Session, a big change in rate can make a bike feel this way I guess, otherwise the curve shape is similar on both bikes. Didn't Neko say he wanted some reasonable amount of pregression and as flat as a curve as possible as he found that made the bikes more predictable ?

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3beN
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Ceske Budejovice CZ
5/9/2023 6:38am Edited Date/Time 5/9/2023 6:41am

druidv2 2

 druidv2.png?VersionId=FhfGCdw18xY3G

Lower more rearward idler, more chain wrap, no need for lower pulley

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Primoz
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5/9/2023 6:45am

The biggest change is the virtual pivot suspension layout. 

 

Also, full Sram, that's a change from the first gen Druid... 

kcy4130
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MT US
5/9/2023 6:54am Edited Date/Time 5/9/2023 6:55am

Very nice looking. Except that seat tube mast. Massive seat tube just makes the transition to seatpost look a bit goofy (to me anyways.)

Primoz
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SI
5/9/2023 8:21am

Quite a skinny rocker link...

nskerb
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Kelso, WA US
5/9/2023 9:40am

That looks like it would be exceedingly difficult to get good pivot alignment and consistent layout on that hand welded frame. 

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WhoTookIt
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Location
Madison, WI US
5/9/2023 10:49am Edited Date/Time 5/9/2023 10:49am

It looks like there's three pivots, the bottom bracket, and the shock mount all going through the two side pieces that are welded together, so thankfully tons of features to fixture while welding.

ED: Also since they're all going between the same two side pieces as long as you get those two right everything behind them follows quite nicely.

4
5/9/2023 12:00pm
Primoz wrote:
FWIW the nope was aimed at the sketch. Finding the IC of a 6bar is convoluted at best. Drawing out the IC migration for a 6bar...

FWIW the nope was aimed at the sketch. Finding the IC of a 6bar is convoluted at best. Drawing out the IC migration for a 6bar system by hand looks like a total pain compared to a 4 bar. 

Done it before a year or so ago...not fun haha (I can barely make sense of it now since I tried to layer a couple of pivot changes on each other)

20230509 111020

 

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Primoz
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5/9/2023 12:24pm

This is my sketching a while ago just coming to grips with how to determine the IC of a 6-bar layout. I'm not going near drawing the IC migration paths by hand for this monstrosity, I'd much prefer to program it out if I really had to.

image-20230509212323-1

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1
5/9/2023 1:42pm

I thought Intense had settle for a final version of their frame (at least for the front triangle).

1
1
ahleic09
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Bend, OR US
5/9/2023 2:14pm Edited Date/Time 5/9/2023 2:16pm

So has the forbidden team been racing the new druid or a yet to be released druid-naught ? Edit; Rhys says he’s been racing it all year

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2
sluette
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8/22/2018
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DE
5/10/2023 12:27am
peecee wrote:
All new from the ground up more like the made it almost exactly the same and put an extra hole in the frame, 50/50 overlay i...

All new from the ground up more like the made it almost exactly the same and put an extra hole in the frame, 50/50 overlay i made from the other site 

p5pb24733464 0

 

Come on! A bit more love, please.

Their overlay simply varies in tyre size. How then should the rest be compared?

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1
Primoz
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5/10/2023 2:55am

Linkage driven Horst link. Or what was it called a few pages ago, the sexbar (from the fauxbar)? 

4
5/10/2023 4:03am
Primoz wrote:

Linkage driven Horst link. Or what was it called a few pages ago, the sexbar (from the fauxbar)? 

For some reasons I can't see that name catching on, or maybe I do? 

4
Primoz
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5/10/2023 4:08am

Be the change you want to see in the world. 

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chriskief
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New York, NY US
5/10/2023 12:03pm
 

 

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gibbon
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wales GB
5/10/2023 1:28pm
nskerb wrote:

That looks like it would be exceedingly difficult to get good pivot alignment and consistent layout on that hand welded frame. 

Having poor frame alignment never them bothered before.........

9
TayRob
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CA US
5/10/2023 2:06pm
nskerb wrote:

That looks like it would be exceedingly difficult to get good pivot alignment and consistent layout on that hand welded frame. 

gibbon wrote:

Having poor frame alignment never them bothered before.........

I still remember having a pivot bolt come loose on my M9 at a national race, taking it out in the hotel room to put loctite on it and re-torque it, only to have my friend have to stand on the seat stay so I could thread the bolt back into the upper link. I sold that frame right quick after that…

4
PisgahGnar
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Hendersonville, NC US
5/10/2023 4:20pm
ahleic09 wrote:
So has the forbidden team been racing the new druid or a yet to be released druid-naught ? Edit; Rhys says he’s been racing it all...

So has the forbidden team been racing the new druid or a yet to be released druid-naught ? Edit; Rhys says he’s been racing it all year

He says it, but I find it hard to believe that he is racing a 130 bike at a place like Maydena and coming in 4th only five seconds behind Connor who was on a dreadnought. I’ve owned a Druid and yes it feels like a lot of travel but not that much more travel. 

1
5/11/2023 4:49am
TayRob wrote:
I still remember having a pivot bolt come loose on my M9 at a national race, taking it out in the hotel room to put loctite...

I still remember having a pivot bolt come loose on my M9 at a national race, taking it out in the hotel room to put loctite on it and re-torque it, only to have my friend have to stand on the seat stay so I could thread the bolt back into the upper link. I sold that frame right quick after that…

typical Intense quality there

2
ggccvv
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1/18/2016
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quebec, QC CA
5/11/2023 7:42am

SIGHT 2024

 Looks like the Sight 2024 is moving to HP.

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Onawalk
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CA
5/11/2023 7:49am
ggccvv wrote:
 Looks like the Sight 2024 is moving to HP.

SIGHT 2024

 Looks like the Sight 2024 is moving to HP.

I assume the Sight and Optic will both be HP bikes at this point, I think there was some fairly decent rumour of this several pages back.

That just looks like a Shore frame to me, but I could be wrong

7
ggccvv
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quebec, QC CA
5/11/2023 7:52am

Yup, my bad, its the Shore.

4
Onawalk
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5/11/2023 8:00am
ggccvv wrote:
 Looks like the Sight 2024 is moving to HP.

SIGHT 2024

 Looks like the Sight 2024 is moving to HP.

Doesnt it say William, Shore, Rampage at the top of the computer screen, and didnt he ride a Shore at Rampage?

1
Primoz
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SI
5/11/2023 8:36am

Is it just me or is a high pivot Sight, let alone an Optic, the exact opposite of where the industry is going lately?

7
Onawalk
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CA
5/11/2023 9:24am
Primoz wrote:

Is it just me or is a high pivot Sight, let alone an Optic, the exact opposite of where the industry is going lately?

I mean, the new Druid seems very similar to what I would expect from the new Optic, and maybe a slightly increased travel Sight.

Maybe the Sight stays as a traditional horst link, low/med pivot 150mm bike.

Not sure what you mean by "the exact opposite of where the industry is going lately"

1
Primoz
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5/11/2023 9:36am

There are fewer and fewer really high pivot bikes being made, they are moving more towards mid to low height high pivot layouts, people have negative comments about high pivot bikes (balance changes going through the travel, noise and drag from the system, issues with the chain stretch on the lower chain length), pro riders in some cases moving away from HP bikes to standard bikes, etc.

I kinda get the allure for race bikes, so DH and enduro, but even there there are companies sticking to the tried and tested layout. It seems a VERY weird move to make your bread and butter bikes high pivot. It seems too polarizing.

2
5/11/2023 10:13am
Primoz wrote:
There are fewer and fewer really high pivot bikes being made, they are moving more towards mid to low height high pivot layouts, people have negative...

There are fewer and fewer really high pivot bikes being made, they are moving more towards mid to low height high pivot layouts, people have negative comments about high pivot bikes (balance changes going through the travel, noise and drag from the system, issues with the chain stretch on the lower chain length), pro riders in some cases moving away from HP bikes to standard bikes, etc.

I kinda get the allure for race bikes, so DH and enduro, but even there there are companies sticking to the tried and tested layout. It seems a VERY weird move to make your bread and butter bikes high pivot. It seems too polarizing.

Neko had a good discussion about it in his earlier vids....  he obviously chose no HP.

2
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