MTB Tech Rumors and Innovation

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jonkranked
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jonkranked 5/11/2022 8:41am
5/11/2022 8:41am
sspomer wrote:
specialized creates "Globe" brand for utility e-bikes
https://www.theverge.com/2022/5/10/23063949/specialized-ebike-utility-b…
sspomer wrote:
have been told globe used to exist in early 2000s, too. i'm not in touch w/ this side of the cycling marketing, so anyone know if...
have been told globe used to exist in early 2000s, too. i'm not in touch w/ this side of the cycling marketing, so anyone know if they cut it off and are re-launching?
i recall seeing it in some of the giant catalogs when i was a shop rat in the mid '00s. at that time it was for their commuting oriented bikes.
Whattheheel
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Whattheheel 5/11/2022 9:03am
5/11/2022 9:03am
R-M-R wrote:
Re: Neken stem Sometimes more is more, sometimes it's not. We all want a more comfortable and controlled ride. To that end, many riders want to...
Re: Neken stem

Sometimes more is more, sometimes it's not.

We all want a more comfortable and controlled ride. To that end, many riders want to add all the suspension: tires, rims, spokes, chassis, stem, bar, grips, gloves. The problem is that not all of it is effective at the same frequency or amplitude, and those that act on the same frequency and amplitude are not always of the same quality.

For example, imagine if you wanted to create a DH set-up. You could take two XC air springs and dampers and just stack them on top of each other, or you could use a single, long air spring and damper. The latter has the potential to be better because you avoid redundant components, don't have to double the valve float, etc. This is an example of systems that work on the same amplitude and frequency, so we choose a single, superior system and extend the travel as desired.

Now, compare the action of the fork and tires. We currently have about 8" of fork travel and 2.5" of tire travel. Alternatively, we could have 10.5" of fork travel and just coat our rims in some rubber lugs, or we could have a rigid fork with a 10.5" tire casing. The former alternative is obviously poor because the nearly zero unsprung mass of the tire handles impacts of high frequency and low amplitude that the fork doesn't handle efficiently. The latter alternative is obviously poor because 10.5" of travel needs damping over most of the stroke. Maybe 7.75" of fork travel and 2.75" tires could be better, or 8.25" of fork travel with 2.25" tires, but the current system is clearly close to ideal and better than the extreme alternatives.

As a final example, consider rotating grips (ex. Rev Grips, or simply squishy ones, like Oury). These act in a direction that's not covered by the fork, tires, or a Neken stem. Adding a grip that increases movement around the axis of the handlebar does something the other options don't do.

So, to get back to the Neken stem: it acts on the same axis as the fork and, with such short travel, the flex, float, and stiction affect a larger fraction of its travel than the fork's travel. The stem is effectively the same as adding a little fork travel, but of lesser quality, requires redundant components, and there's more unsprung mass below it. If the goal is to add a little "soft" suspension to the existing fork travel, it's probably sought because the fork is sticky; for the expense of this stem, a fork manufacturer could improve tolerances and/or use exotic materials in the fork to address friction. Or maybe it's to create a layer of suspension with less inertia that reacts more quickly, in which case a simpler system would likely be the better solution. It's unlikely that stacking a telescoping suspension stem on a telescoping suspension fork will create a superior result unless that scales of travel or mass are enormously disparate - likely beyond the situation on a motorcycle and almost certainly beyond the situation on a mountain bike.





You sure talk a lot! Laughing Tongue
What about these just coming out for road/gravel bikes as their intent?
sspomer
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sspomer 5/11/2022 9:23am
5/11/2022 9:23am
was sent another photo of the neken stem mounted to a bike and am waiting for reply to see if i can post it here. it's on a husq ebike in the shot, so it's not a gravel/short-travel thing.
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Onawalk
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Onawalk 5/11/2022 10:09am
5/11/2022 10:09am
sspomer wrote:
was sent another photo of the neken stem mounted to a bike and am waiting for reply to see if i can post it here. it's...
was sent another photo of the neken stem mounted to a bike and am waiting for reply to see if i can post it here. it's on a husq ebike in the shot, so it's not a gravel/short-travel thing.
Don’t toy with us like that,
You have the goods, just post it anonymously, sit back and watch us lose our minds.

PB commenters will have a field day with it bolted to an ebike….
1
sspomer
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sspomer 5/11/2022 10:52am
5/11/2022 10:52am Edited Date/Time 5/11/2022 10:53am
permission pseudo-granted. (and i post stuff here for vital members...don't really care what pb commenters have to say)




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Scrub
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Scrub 5/11/2022 11:00am
5/11/2022 11:00am
sspomer wrote:
permission pseudo-granted. [i](and i post stuff here for vital members...don't really care what pb commenters have to say) [/i] [img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2022/05/11/12488/s1200_NekenMTBSuspensionStemonVital.jpg[/img]
permission pseudo-granted. (and i post stuff here for vital members...don't really care what pb commenters have to say)




What kind of bump stops are they going to implement to not smashing the head tube? Limiting turning radius and no X-ups or toboggan for sure. Seems like someone didn't think this thru.
2
TEAMROBOT
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TEAMROBOT 5/11/2022 11:03am
5/11/2022 11:03am
At least it looks good...
19
plumpssack 5/11/2022 11:13am
5/11/2022 11:13am
The Vecnum suspension stem is actually really good on a gravel bike on rougher tracks.
mntnmrtn
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mntnmrtn 5/11/2022 11:17am
5/11/2022 11:17am
Oh yeah, looks reeaaall good...
11
Dickscruttock 5/11/2022 1:19pm
5/11/2022 1:19pm
RS new product launch is the 26th. New Zebs, Lyriks, Pikes, Super Deluxe air and coil.
7
Onawalk
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Onawalk 5/11/2022 1:45pm
5/11/2022 1:45pm
sspomer wrote:
permission pseudo-granted. [i](and i post stuff here for vital members...don't really care what pb commenters have to say) [/i] [img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2022/05/11/12488/s1200_NekenMTBSuspensionStemonVital.jpg[/img]
permission pseudo-granted. (and i post stuff here for vital members...don't really care what pb commenters have to say)




It was meant as a little dig at PB comment sections….
Apologies if I ruffled your feathers.

Maybe I’m wrong, but I figured there was a significant cross over between the two sites
1
Onawalk
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Onawalk 5/11/2022 1:47pm
5/11/2022 1:47pm
Dickscruttock wrote:
RS new product launch is the 26th. New Zebs, Lyriks, Pikes, Super Deluxe air and coil.
Deadly
3
Scrub
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Scrub 5/11/2022 3:09pm
5/11/2022 3:09pm Edited Date/Time 5/11/2022 3:15pm
Re: the Neken stem contraption. I had an Ah-Ha moment and it came to me, its designed to be used in conjunction with the Kids Shotgun seat. Right?



nskerb
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nskerb 5/11/2022 4:54pm
5/11/2022 4:54pm
Scrub wrote:
What kind of bump stops are they going to implement to not smashing the head tube? Limiting turning radius and no X-ups or toboggan for sure...
What kind of bump stops are they going to implement to not smashing the head tube? Limiting turning radius and no X-ups or toboggan for sure. Seems like someone didn't think this thru.
Honestly I don't think the vendiagram of people doing toboggans and x-ups and people buying that stem has too much crossover lol.
12
Brevard_Bikewrench 5/11/2022 6:23pm
5/11/2022 6:23pm
That stem plus a carbon top tube equals a “JRA” warranty claim waiting to happen.
Personally I like my bikes to be as simple as possible, less to service means more riding. No, Im not a rigid single speeder…yet
1
jstuhlman
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jstuhlman 5/11/2022 9:43pm
5/11/2022 9:43pm
Brevard_Bikewrench wrote:
That stem plus a carbon top tube equals a “JRA” warranty claim waiting to happen. Personally I like my bikes to be as simple as possible...
That stem plus a carbon top tube equals a “JRA” warranty claim waiting to happen.
Personally I like my bikes to be as simple as possible, less to service means more riding. No, Im not a rigid single speeder…yet
you probably like new middle black too...
RiderMikeCheck1 5/11/2022 10:06pm
5/11/2022 10:06pm Edited Date/Time 5/11/2022 10:08pm
https://bikerumor.com/sram-flight-attendant-auto-pilots-your-suspension…

I think this may have been posted previously, but here's a lot of the detail on the new Rockshox stuff. The new larger neg spring air spring, buttercups, new lowers/uppers, bleed valves, rear shock, etc.

You can see how they're positioning the forks going forward. Pike 120-140, Lyrik 140-160, Zeb 150-190

1
bike_futurist 5/12/2022 12:43am
5/12/2022 12:43am
sspomer wrote:
permission pseudo-granted. [i](and i post stuff here for vital members...don't really care what pb commenters have to say) [/i] [img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2022/05/11/12488/s1200_NekenMTBSuspensionStemonVital.jpg[/img]
permission pseudo-granted. (and i post stuff here for vital members...don't really care what pb commenters have to say)




what in the world
mike_dee
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mike_dee 5/12/2022 3:44am
5/12/2022 3:44am
sspomer wrote:
permission pseudo-granted. [i](and i post stuff here for vital members...don't really care what pb commenters have to say) [/i] [img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2022/05/11/12488/s1200_NekenMTBSuspensionStemonVital.jpg[/img]
permission pseudo-granted. (and i post stuff here for vital members...don't really care what pb commenters have to say)




Scrub wrote:
What kind of bump stops are they going to implement to not smashing the head tube? Limiting turning radius and no X-ups or toboggan for sure...
What kind of bump stops are they going to implement to not smashing the head tube? Limiting turning radius and no X-ups or toboggan for sure. Seems like someone didn't think this thru.
Only Treks with knockblock can use it.
3
Brevard_Bikewrench 5/12/2022 6:06am
5/12/2022 6:06am
Brevard_Bikewrench wrote:
That stem plus a carbon top tube equals a “JRA” warranty claim waiting to happen. Personally I like my bikes to be as simple as possible...
That stem plus a carbon top tube equals a “JRA” warranty claim waiting to happen.
Personally I like my bikes to be as simple as possible, less to service means more riding. No, Im not a rigid single speeder…yet
jstuhlman wrote:
you probably like new middle black too...
Haha only on my cross bike…
dolface
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dolface 5/12/2022 6:10am
5/12/2022 6:10am
Primoz wrote:
Quite a few bikes now have bar rotation limiting devices built in, Acros offers a headset with that functionality. On another note... https://m.pinkbike.com/news/push-industries-prototype-linkage-fork.html Did we cover...
Quite a few bikes now have bar rotation limiting devices built in, Acros offers a headset with that functionality.

On another note...
https://m.pinkbike.com/news/push-industries-prototype-linkage-fork.html
Did we cover Specialized buying the Trust patent?
Yeah, a while back, iirc @wheelbased gets the credit...
3
DonutMTB
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DonutMTB 5/12/2022 8:25am
5/12/2022 8:25am
Friend of mine noticed something different about the bike ravanel is riding in her most recent IG post and it appears to be some sort of commencal downcountry bike


It's missing the seat stay pivot seen on the metas and appears to have something covered up in the front triangle.
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Sonofbovril2 5/12/2022 8:38am
5/12/2022 8:38am
DonutMTB wrote:
Friend of mine noticed something different about the bike ravanel is riding in her most recent IG post and it appears to be some sort of...
Friend of mine noticed something different about the bike ravanel is riding in her most recent IG post and it appears to be some sort of commencal downcountry bike


It's missing the seat stay pivot seen on the metas and appears to have something covered up in the front triangle.
Looks like a trail version of the new supreme linkage platform to me
4
1
TheShortestCharles 5/12/2022 10:05am
5/12/2022 10:05am
DonutMTB wrote:
Friend of mine noticed something different about the bike ravanel is riding in her most recent IG post and it appears to be some sort of...
Friend of mine noticed something different about the bike ravanel is riding in her most recent IG post and it appears to be some sort of commencal downcountry bike


It's missing the seat stay pivot seen on the metas and appears to have something covered up in the front triangle.
Either there's a linkage under that fabric, or we have another victim to Big Flex-Stay propaganda
2
Mandingo915
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Mandingo915 5/12/2022 10:58am
5/12/2022 10:58am
TheShortestCharles wrote:
Either there's a linkage under that fabric, or we have another victim to Big Flex-Stay propaganda
Can you make aluminum flex stays? Gotta be linkage
Primoz
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Primoz 5/12/2022 11:11am
5/12/2022 11:11am
You can, Scott did. But not with tubes that thick.

I vote concentric pivot.
1
nskerb
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nskerb 5/12/2022 12:05pm
5/12/2022 12:05pm
Primoz wrote:
You can, Scott did. But not with tubes that thick.

I vote concentric pivot.
Concentric around the BB? 0% chance.
kcy4130
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kcy4130 5/12/2022 12:18pm
5/12/2022 12:18pm Edited Date/Time 5/12/2022 12:21pm
Primoz wrote:
You can, Scott did. But not with tubes that thick.

I vote concentric pivot.
nskerb wrote:
Concentric around the BB? 0% chance.
I'm guessing he means concentric around the axle, like trek and some others do. And yes mandingo, alloy bikes can have flex stays. Many bikes have had in the past, but a lot of them were not implemented very well, lots of complaints about being too flexy side to side and high breakage rates. Is it's possible to implement al flex stays well? idk. It's telling that Specialized stumpy al version uses horst and carbon version uses flex.
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Primoz
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Primoz 5/12/2022 1:50pm
5/12/2022 1:50pm Edited Date/Time 5/12/2022 1:54pm
Correct. Think a bit more rearwards than the BB Tongue

Two caveats - the current 6-link Supreme was also covered in the front during development. So this might be same but different (so 6-bar). On the other had a 6-bar linkage also has separate chainstay and seatstay elements, so the pivot back there still applies.

EDIT: looking at the pictures on the computer, zooming in a bit, I wanna say I see a line around the rear dropout, pointing at separate parts for the two stays, meaning concentric pivot. The shock is still horizontal and under the top tube. There isn't much to see around the BB so no idea what they are hiding...

I vote a generally similar layout to what they have, but a split pivot design, making it a 4-bar suspension design braking-wise.
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