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It's a whole 106mm longer than my last bike. The new one is way less fatiguing, you simply stand up over the bottom bracket and look where you want to go. Fore and aft stability is ridiculous.
Yes, it's a boat in tight switchbacks, you just have to throw it in a bit more aggressive. For me as an intermediate rider its been fantastic. For a pro, I don't think there is a huge gain. Particularly in EWS.
IMO.
Isn’t this the biggest MTB news story of the century so far?
I have been surprised that full factory race teams do not have a better solution to the sharpie trick when it comes time for a race run. I'd imagine that if a rider on a team sponsored by Kenda or Vee or some other lower tier tire wanted to run a Maxxis on race day then it wouldn't bee too difficult and could probably fool a lot of people to have a mock sidewall sticker for whatever their tire sponsor is. Minimal effort and I think it would fly under the radar of a lot of people vs just a 5 second sharpie job.
@dolface have you tried Assegais?
The thing I was thinking is that if they had a glued on or ironed on patch I think it would definitely not get noticed.
Longer reach does make it easier for "lesser" riders to go faster due to the added stability but it does the same for "pro" riders.
Tighter stuff is fine so you as you change riding style/technique. Obviously, if you try to ride a longer bike off the back like a short bike it won't work.
If you stop the video at the 5:16 mark you can see they did some grinding on Reece's bike near the idler. Harrisoon is using a different chainstay altogether as we have seen previously. Neko also talked about the chain rubbing on the frame at bottom out on his Trek copy (he copied the idler layout).
On a different topic, it looks like everyone on the new supreme is running an air shock.
I don't exactly understand if you meant that the "Longer wheelbase makes it easier to weight front and back and makes it easier to feel when one or the other is about to lose traction." is the BS part or that you're claiming that. If it's the BS part, I never said that, I said the opposite, the same as I said in the beginning of this post. And that what makes a longer reach bike more forgiving and easier to ride.
I really think you misread something in my post as you were mostly saying similar things to what I said, that's why I replied only with the 'which part is BS', hoping you'd reread my post.
As for longer bikes being slower in the tight stuff, 100 % yes. Try riding some switchbacks. The longer the bike is, the more you need to do front pivots. And I've had cases where it felt the front wheel will fold under me on fairly tight switchback berms as the angle of attack of the front wheel was getting to be too big.
And look at me go, off-topic yet again.
Where you can get in trouble is if you start infringing on trademarks. A solid example...Deadmau5 and the Purrari. Ferrari couldn't do anything about him painting it up like an ice cream cone, but they had a potential case with him creating his own fake Ferrari logos.
https://www.stites.com/resources/trademarkology/deadmau5-gets-in-tradem…
So...If you took your DHF's and created a fake "Maxxes Moanin' DHEFF" logo on it...you might get sued. Slap a Michelin logo on it and I don't think Maxxis could do anything. Buy 'em in bulk, do the same and try to sell them in a store might be a different issue. But maybe not?
There was a case in Vancouver a few years ago. The guy used to drive down to Bellingham/Seattle every week, load up his car with Trader Joe's merch, and come back to Vancouver and sell it at his store called "Pirate Joes". In the end, he lost, but it was mostly just down to Trader Joes having deeper pockets. They couldn't do anything to stop him from re-selling their stuff, but they had a potential case on trademark for the name.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pirate_Joe%27s
I promised a Trade Joe's boycott after this...but I couldn't hold myself to it.
Wonder if you’re interested in moving this pissing match to another thread, I couldn’t care less about your thoughts on which you believe is easier or harder to ride. Keep your feelings somewhere else please.
I am interested in more info on that updated Boxxxer I keep seeing…you know, new tech and such
Also, the updated Zeb, buttercups and all that, when will we see those forks on bikes?
Got a 22 Spire coming, and it would be cool if it was the the newest and greatest gadget
I'd like to know more about Magnus Manson running his Dreadnaught in Lourdes with 180mm of rear travel. Has anyone actually confirmed that the Cascade link for the Druid also works on the enduro sled to up the travel?
The Druid and Dreadnought do actually use the same link. If you look through parts lists you can find it. We don't market the link for both because it's currently not compatible with half coil shocks you can get as a stock option on the dreadnought frame only.
So, as I stated, Finn’s bike is more progressive, while using a lower leverage rate. As I said, “below 2”. Not 2.1, as 3/2.1 would be less progressive. I’m guessing Loic’s bike is in the low to mid 30% range. 3.3/2.1 is 36.5%, I’m speculating that’s on the upper end, but without having the bikes in front of me with a good way of measuring, I can’t tell 100%. I also can’t tell if they have different chainstay lengths, or if one has a custom shock other than what appears to be a stock 225/75, (although there’s no indication to assume that’s not what they’re both using). What I can tell by obvious visual difference in the design, and drawing out Finn vs Loic’s bikes, is that Finn’s bike is more progressive. Albeit at a lower overall leverage rate. 3/1.8 is 40%, although I’d guess he’s in the mid to upper 30 range. 40 is hitting the more extreme side of things. And yes, Finn probably has less travel, I’m gonna say 6-8mm, putting him in mid 190’s, while Loic is prob around 200 or slightly over. I didn’t feel the travel difference was worth bringing up as most brands already use these numbers more for marketing, and they are a bit arbitrary.
How many bikes claim 160mm travel, but actually make exactly that? High 150s to low 160s can all be claimed this way. While brands such as Raaw use different linkages to drop the overall leverage rate for larger riders, while increasing shock stroke to maintain same travel numbers, but decrease the spring rate necessary to support the heavier riders.
So back to the original topic. Finn’s bike with a 480lb spring (see video), is going to make more force at bottom out than Loic’s bike, if they are running the same spring rate. While Loic’s bike would sag deeper with the same weight rider on each bike, and again same spring.
I’m assuming this is why on your website you guys generally suggest running a firmer spring than stock? With most your links, same spring rate would result in deeper sag, and no additional bottom out force (for links that don’t drop lower than stock at end of travel).
Damping is unnecessary to talk about in the variation of these links, as it’s not something we can measure by looking at the pivot points, and I don’t speak Ohlins race code. Damping is also not going to change the force applied to the wheel based off of travel used in this discussion. We are not discussing the speed at which they reach bottom out or return to top of travel, although I’ll indulge @JCL and go into that briefly. Damping is a measure of velocity/force while spring is travel/force and is why we speak in terms of damping as low speed/high speed. In the realm of momentary impacts on a race track, damping is important in discussing travel used. In discussing the differences of these linkages, force applied to the rear wheel will reach a certain amount of travel regardless of time passed, based solely off spring rates. One will just get there more quickly than the other, which is irrelevant to what we can visually discern.
Now for the off the rails speculations. If Finn’s bike is making more bottom out force, I’d assume his tune includes more high speed rebound. This would appear to be visible by Loic’s scary front wheel ride, the moment I’m assuming @JCL is referring to. He appeared to be bucked forward out of the hole before the rock, as his rear suspension unloaded, indicating a potentially faster end of stroke rebound velocity. Or he was simply just unweighting the rear tire, moving his weight forward at a bit less than ideal time, causing the near OTB moment. Again, all more speculation, but hopefully some clarity as well.
"The Zeb, Lyrik, and Pike will all get refreshed in line with the the same chassis as the ones that came out with flight attendant. IE bleed valves, buttercups, new lowers castings. The new 38 mm Boxxer was marked as embargoed until March 2023, can't believe that though as in the spy shots it looks production ready, plus the first WC is just around the corner"
The new signature lyrik colour is this army green sort of colour and it doesn't look good 😆
The new shocks with HBO and HSC adjustment are also due for launch in May
Also they might be appearing on new bikes as they have apparently been available to order for OEM for a little while now
New air spring for ZEB will be compatible with older chassis.
More of the new TR11 out and about under Johny.
Something new from Guerilla Gravity, but still a single crown bike. Is it just a new colourway for Barelli or is it a new bike?
Shock stroke and spring rate are the primary factors when comparing bottom out resistance between two linkage systems. Damping can largely be ignored because it can be set to whatever you want, but it's an important part of the bottom out resistance on a whole. I can't tell if you think force at bottom of travel is bottom out resistance or not. Force at bottom of travel only tells you the amount of support that is offered at that point, which is different from bottom out resistance. If you look only at force at bottom of travel it disregards all the work the shock does between it's starting point and there to absorb an impact. Total bottom out resistance varies by impact and is a sum of the potential energy the spring can store and the amount of work the damper does, which is the bit that varies by impact. With all our links, or any link on any bike with the same shock stroke, technically the thing that increases bottom out resistance is an increase in spring rate/pressure and not the link. Leverage ratio has just about nothing to do with bottom out resistance because it's a conservation of energy equation and the linkage system absorbs no energy. The link is about making that increase actually feel good to ride. You could get the exact same bottom out resistance by slapping the same heavier spring on with the stock link, but you'd be pretty over-sprung and it would track like crap. For example, at my weight on the Nomad 4 the recommended spring rate with the stock link is 400lbs. I can bottom out that set up in the parking lot so it doesn't work on the trail at all. Swapped to a 500lb spring which fixed that, but it no longer rode that well. Then made a link that brought the sag back to around 30% and that was fixed. A common misconception that is perpetuated frequently in bike reviews is that more progressive linkages allow you to run a softer spring, whereas it's actually the exact opposite.
If you factor in damping you can make any low spring rate have a high bottom out resistance by throwing a stiffer damping tune at it, but there is no magic stiff damping tune that doesn't adversely impact how the shock responds to high frequency impacts. With high frequency impacts the shock speed is very high for a very small duration of time so a stiff damping tune results in spikes in damping force that can prevent the shock from moving significant amounts. This is why short stroke coil shocks aren't worth the while usually. To make up for the loss in bottom out resistance due to the stroke being shorter they have to make up for it with very stiff damping tunes which often negates some of the primary benefits of a coil shock.