MTB Tech Rumors and Innovation

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Prototype
melonhead1145 8/28/2021 12:16am
8/28/2021 12:16am
Might be of interest. Unite components, based in mid Wales who make some lovely machined components (think hope or burgtec but without the high price tag) are going to produce a CNC machined long travel 29er with more models to follow
https://www.instagram.com/p/CTG7y4fMoop/?utm_medium=copy_link
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Noeserd
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Noeserd 8/28/2021 4:49am
8/28/2021 4:49am
melonhead1145 wrote:
Might be of interest. Unite components, based in mid Wales who make some lovely machined components (think hope or burgtec but without the high price tag)...
Might be of interest. Unite components, based in mid Wales who make some lovely machined components (think hope or burgtec but without the high price tag) are going to produce a CNC machined long travel 29er with more models to follow
https://www.instagram.com/p/CTG7y4fMoop/?utm_medium=copy_link
Im not sure about the "without the high price tag" for this product :D
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hitar_potar 8/28/2021 1:29pm
8/28/2021 1:29pm
iceman2058 wrote:
Here's another shot of that Commencal floating brake mount: [img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2021/08/27/11380/s1200_brake.jpg[/img]
Here's another shot of that Commencal floating brake mount:


Why does it need a floating arm? Isn’t the new virtual high-pivot design enough active during braking on its own?
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Primoz
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Primoz 8/28/2021 1:32pm
8/28/2021 1:32pm
Not necessarily. It depends on how the links rotate. A virtual linkage doesn't necessarily have low anti rise values.
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TheShortestCharles 8/28/2021 2:03pm
8/28/2021 2:03pm
hitar_potar wrote:
Why does it need a floating arm? Isn’t the new virtual high-pivot design enough active during braking on its own?
Based on some approximations, the anti-rise is still fairly high (it is a *high* virtual pivot, after all), but not quite as high as most high single pivot designs. The floating arm could also be to change the shape of the anti-rise curve, as the slope of the curve can affect the wheel rate under braking. The current non-floating design has decreasing anti-rise, which would increase the wheel rate and could make the suspension feel harsh under braking, so it may be possible the arm is to produce an increasing slope, which would theoretically soften the suspension when braking.

Nerd stuff learned from here: http://www.i-tracksuspension.com/suspensiontheory2.html#wheelrate
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hitar_potar 8/29/2021 12:54am
8/29/2021 12:54am
Thanx for the thorough explanation, but it’s too techy for me. Yeah, the new, prototype design is not as high as the old one/the current single pivot, but they stated it’s high enough and the move was to make it more active during braking. Despite what the graphs and tables and numbers were telling about how the now-old design is working, numerous owners have stated they don’t feel a stiffening of the suspension during braking. And then Commencal comes up with the new design and they tell how it’s even more active. So, it’s kinda confusing to see such an arm on the new frame.
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bulletbass man 8/29/2021 5:00am
8/29/2021 5:00am
hitar_potar wrote:
Thanx for the thorough explanation, but it’s too techy for me. Yeah, the new, prototype design is not as high as the old one/the current single...
Thanx for the thorough explanation, but it’s too techy for me. Yeah, the new, prototype design is not as high as the old one/the current single pivot, but they stated it’s high enough and the move was to make it more active during braking. Despite what the graphs and tables and numbers were telling about how the now-old design is working, numerous owners have stated they don’t feel a stiffening of the suspension during braking. And then Commencal comes up with the new design and they tell how it’s even more active. So, it’s kinda confusing to see such an arm on the new frame.
Marginal gains and some really good marketing.
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sspomer
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sspomer 8/29/2021 12:32pm
8/29/2021 12:32pm
would pitch of the course factor in? they didn't have floating arms in maribor, right? maribor less steep, less aggressive braking need in bombholes compared to VDS with aggressive holes and hits while braking at the same time. thoughts?

considering colanges got 2nd place today by just .2 seconds on the "old" commencal, i think they still work just fine : )

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Primoz
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Primoz 8/29/2021 1:16pm
8/29/2021 1:16pm
It could, they could also tune it a-la Barel where they could actually induce braking squat (intentional lower anti-rise - the old one should have it relatively low as is) in order to keep the rear end down. But yeah, a steeper track is probably a lot more sensitive to rear end doing things compared to a flater track.
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TheShortestCharles 8/29/2021 4:07pm
8/29/2021 4:07pm
Primoz wrote:
It could, they could also tune it a-la Barel where they could actually induce braking squat (intentional lower anti-rise - the old one should have it...
It could, they could also tune it a-la Barel where they could actually induce braking squat (intentional lower anti-rise - the old one should have it relatively low as is) in order to keep the rear end down. But yeah, a steeper track is probably a lot more sensitive to rear end doing things compared to a flater track.
Yep, I'm not sure if my approximation was accurate but it looks like it could be tuned to get a pretty flat anti-rise curve with over 200%, which would induce a lot of braking squat in the steeps.
Biketechspert 8/30/2021 11:35am
8/30/2021 11:35am
Glad commencal finally listened to me. At the Windrock GRT in 2018 I gave commencal a look at a prototype floating brake arm I had made and they took pictures and sent it off to the engineering department. Rode their downhill for two years and the braking was terrible on steep tracks.
jonkranked
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jonkranked 8/31/2021 12:27pm
8/31/2021 12:27pm
it's not new saint, but today Shimano dropped new Dura Ace and Ultegra. 12 speed, Di2 only, semi-wireless. semi-wireless being that the derailleurs are still connected to the central battery. curious what, if any, implications this will have for the future of the mtb side, specifically saint & xtr - even though 12 speed XTR is currently mechanical only (XTR Di2 is still only 11 speed).

https://bikerumor.com/2021/08/31/shimano-dura-ace-and-ultegra-deliver-f…

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Primoz
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Primoz 8/31/2021 9:53pm
8/31/2021 9:53pm
My predictions, surely there will be a mechanical group as well (and rim brake groups as well).

As for MTB, given that 12spd is mostly 1x, there will be one battery closer to the derailleur (Sram-like maybe, mounted on the derailleur?) as you don't need a front battery. That or go into a cooperation with Fox and connect to the Livevalve battery and/or mounting interface, if either is present.
baronKanon 8/31/2021 9:56pm
8/31/2021 9:56pm
I THINK "current" Di2 can hook up to the Live Valve battery.
mitch160
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mitch160 9/1/2021 12:52am
9/1/2021 12:52am
https://www.instagram.com/p/CTOsg_nBspF/
Seeing that this isnt getting a lot of attention but o-chain might be a little worried? (Slipper clutch for mtb's)
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Primoz
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Primoz 9/1/2021 3:58am
9/1/2021 3:58am
baronKanon wrote:
I THINK "current" Di2 can hook up to the Live Valve battery.
Would make sense actually.

Anywho, apparently both Dura Ace and Ultegra are Di2 only, Dura Ace is disc only, Ultegra comes in a rim brake option and only the hydraulic levers are wireless (or wired), while the rim brake option is wired only. A least that's what a friend of mine says.

Supposedly the new 105 will be trickle down 11spd Ultegra, which is interesting considering the full 12spd stack on MTB going down to Deore.

It was weird to me for Shimano to do that, until he told me 12spd Red and Force are AXS only as well. Here's hoping MTB drivetrains don't go electric only in the future.

As for the slipper clutch, I'd really love my drivetrain spinning around being pulled forward by the rear wheel through the derailleur...
David9180
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David9180 9/1/2021 4:58am
9/1/2021 4:58am
New Rallon
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Masjo
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Masjo 9/1/2021 5:58am
9/1/2021 5:58am
I think mechanical MTB drivetrains are safe for now. The rationale I heard behind Di2 only Dura-Ace and Ultegra is that most people who bought bikes or groupsets at that level went with Di2 anyways. I don't think that's the case with MTB - frankly the option hasn't existed for long enough for that to happen. I don't know if SRAM had the same opinion for their road stuff or if they had just invested so much into it / couldn't make comparable shifting happen mechanically (their front derailleur was never great).
You would at least hope these things would be future/history proof, and they both are and are not. There is an adaptor to fit thew new 12 speed DA derailleur to old 11 speed controls for TT and Traithlon bikes, but you can't go the other way around. Very confusing/annoying, given that it is likely not only possible but easily done. Maybe one day someone will hack current AXS/Di2 when the inevitable 13 speed groupsets comes out.
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krabo83
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krabo83 9/1/2021 7:02am
9/1/2021 7:02am
David9180 wrote:
New Rallon [img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2021/09/01/11390/s1200_Untitled.jpg[/img]
New Rallon
no obvious differences to the current model, might just be an evolution.
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TayRob
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TayRob 9/1/2021 7:03am
9/1/2021 7:03am
mitch160 wrote:
https://www.instagram.com/p/CTOsg_nBspF/
Seeing that this isnt getting a lot of attention but o-chain might be a little worried? (Slipper clutch for mtb's)
I'm very, very curious about this.
I was pretty much ready to cash out on an o-chain until I found out they have a rider weight limit of roughly 180 pounds.

As for the Di2, from what I've heard on the road side, mechanical actuated stuff is being put out to pasture. There will not be a mechanical Dura Ace or Ultegra 12 speed. Reason being that alot of current road bikes don't factor in proper, simple cable routing to the point cable and housing make so many wacky bends the bike barely shifts.

The future for MTB Di2? No clue. I could see it becoming branded as a E-bike only thing. Every Shimano motor has a few spare open ports on it for compatibility already even though XTR Di2 kinda fell flat on its face. Plus it already integrates to the motor display and I seem to remember hearing something about having Di2 pair to the motor and a Garmin and heart rate strap and between all that the bike would keep you in certain heart rate zones throughout a mapped ride for training purposes / so you don't blow yourself up /run out of battery.
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sspomer
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sspomer 9/1/2021 7:25am
9/1/2021 7:25am
check out this FOX DHX2 from lenzerheide pits. extra dingus that shoots out radio waves or 5g or something? Maybe it shoots coolant out to cool the shock? Silly


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Primoz
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Primoz 9/1/2021 7:28am
9/1/2021 7:28am
A housing for a remote lockout feature? (prototyped)

Does it make sense in Lenzerheide?
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krabo83
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krabo83 9/1/2021 7:32am
9/1/2021 7:32am
Primoz wrote:
A housing for a remote lockout feature? (prototyped)

Does it make sense in Lenzerheide?
remote seems right, great thinking Smile
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melonhead1145 9/1/2021 7:45am
9/1/2021 7:45am
Why is the shaft hidden?
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Mbarosko
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Mbarosko 9/1/2021 7:56am
9/1/2021 7:56am Edited Date/Time 9/1/2021 7:59am
sspomer wrote:
check out this FOX DHX2 from lenzerheide pits. extra dingus that shoots out radio waves or 5g or something? Maybe it shoots coolant out to cool...
check out this FOX DHX2 from lenzerheide pits. extra dingus that shoots out radio waves or 5g or something? Maybe it shoots coolant out to cool the shock? Silly


Looks strikingly like the Fox live valve plug 😵
4
PisgahGnar
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PisgahGnar 9/1/2021 8:08am
9/1/2021 8:08am
Blowoff valve for when the VTEC kicks in.
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