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But, as someone said earlier, most of us have that image of big burly dh rigs of maybe 10-20 years ago when enduro was non-existent and trail bikes were mostly crap. As tech and susp. design evolved, the current ones(2019-2020) are so capable that, with the same rider, they can blitz the time of the dh bike from a couple of years ago. Ok, no enduro bike will be 99% close or as fast as a ongoing supreme 29er(or mullet) or a demo, session, etc on a WC DH track but, 99% of riders don't have access to those type of trails. Most of us have access to lift-asisted trails that were pretty rough and difficult 10-15 years ago on a mid 2000 dh...but, one the exact same trail, a megatower, or a meta AM will feel like a fish in the water. On the exact same trails, a supreme 29er will feel way too much of a bike - discussion I've had in the 12 minutes gondola lift ride with a kid almost half my age who has and rides in the junior national champs on both dh and enduro; he said, and I quote, "there is no trail in our country hard enough for this supreme 29er; only in Austria" -
As bike-parks look to attract more and more crowds, of course that they will not build "hard lines" and instead build flow lines for beginners on less dh capable bikes. It is a business, they want to make more money. From an ROI pov, building a dedicated dh track is serious waste of money, that much is clear. It would be nice, you could brag with it but, in the end, 20 riders with dh bikes will come over the weekends. 2 weeks ago, at the lift, the only two dh bikes I saw belong to the kid in the discussion and one old 26" wheeled one that belonged to a guy who broke his back and wasn't fully recoverde but still wanted to ride a little. In the 150mm-170mm travel category...well, all(99%) of them.
A dedicated dh rig has transformed itself from a tool used to come down a hill in anger, into a dedicated one that requires a special envrionment to be used at its full capacity. In the mean time, the enduros of yesterday(last two years) became the "good for all" bikes.., thus, many ppl brought one. That is why the mountains are full of them. The good news is that the enduros of today and tomorrow(next year, for example) are very dh friendly and, with a dc on them, they could tackle most of the bike-park's DD tracks. I'm looking forward getting mine soon. Near DH capability that can be pedaled.., sold/take my money!(and I am pretty sure I'm not the only one)
As for 'I ride the same trail I used to with a DH that I do now with an Enduro', coming from an XC background (hence the lack of DH bike experience) and moving 'up', I have kinda the same experience, I now ride the same trails I used to ride with an XC bike, just much faster.
And as mentioned, regardless how much faster and more fun a DH bike is on a proper trail, there is no logic for me that would justify it for me over a bike that can pedal given what I ride. Even riding the same trails, I'm not gonna haul a 15+ kg bike up the hill by pushing it and I'm not much of a fan of shuttling, so... I'd sooner buy a road bike than a DH bike, which might be a bit of a radical claim, but it's true. A road bike just might be the second or third bike I'd own (yeah, I have the one and the next one would most likely be a pump track specific bike, if we had a pump track nearby). It's simply different enough to make sense besides an agresive 150 mm bike around here. I was thinking how nice it would be to have a downcountry bike to be a bit faster going up, but then it dawned on me what I wrote above about riding the same trails on an XC bike. So I can't fathom myself taking a lesser bike when the current ('main') bike is fast enough going up and would be better going down. It's a goldilocks thing, it's juuuuuust right.
As long as we have World Cup DH racing and bike parks like Whistler DH bikes aren’t going anywhere. They aren’t going to be a large share of the market but who cares.
Super cars are toys for the rich and most people that own them don’t even drive them to their limits. But they still exist and people buy them. DH bikes are similar, but you can be a middle age dad that works a normal job and have one.
On steep chunky stuff where I am actually using travel, having more of it on the DH bike offsets the stiffness of the stem and my hands are happy.
Living in Durango, I rode the newly opened and modified WCDH all summer, which is very fast in sections with several heavy, heavy compressions and drops, however these are all in mostly straight lines on grassy slopes, and as long as your body doesn't collapse under you, a 29er trail bike will be faster through them. The woods sections are slow and tight enough that the DH bike is not really needed and they introduced some awkward turns and flat sections where you use to fly off of headwalls, allowing the trail bike to make up further time.
No doubt most every current world cup track would be faster on a DH bike and courses like VDS would be scary to ride down let alone race on a big trail bike (I was there for worlds 2016 and it's gnarlier than it looks on TV by a fair margin), but as for single run speed I don't believe a DH bike gives you an advantage on many of the "DH" trails people ride and race throughout the year. I am a tall person with a lot of extra suspension in my legs, so I'm not sure how a modern 29" "enduro" bike feels to those under or around 5'10", but for me they seem to be very very capable on all but the heaviest race run impacts when you know what's coming up.
I only own a DH bike (Geometron with tall bars, 60.5° HA, and 460 CS) and have so for a few years, but have ridden a ton of trail bikes in that time. I recently rented an Enduro in Bellingham and thought it was too much for Galbraith and did not feel it was undergunned at all on the shuttle trails in the area. I would have prefered a larger reach, Shimano brakes, and much taller bars yet it was very capable and confidence inspiring on the shuttle downhills even in the soaking rain while riding in a road helmet and safety glasses. I felt my DH bike would have been overkill given the few flatter sections where pumping roots and throwing in a pedal stroke where necessary and if I was to spend the weekend learning the track for a race run I would compete on a trail bike instead of a DH bike.
Rockchomper makes the point of all day comfort with a DH bike and I completely agree. Without hesitation I can say I'd rather spend a weekend at Trestle or Whistler Bike Parks with my DH bike instead of a trail bike with good tires. I am only speaking about "race runs" or hot laps in my above post because that's where I believe the capabilities of the bike you're riding truly shines.
Spomer showed us the numbers for Vital viewers' DH bike buying habits from their survery and I don't doubt that's indicative, if not optimistic, for the industry at large. Why buy a DH bike if your trail bike is nearly as capable or better for 99% of the trails you ride? If you live in an area without lift access like many people do, it just doesn't make sense. I do not believe it's a problem of trail bikes becoming so much more capable, but rather trails becoming easier with mid corner roots getting removed, rocks being pushed aside, jumps being taken out, etc.
MTB trail advocacy groups need to stop initiating negotiations with land managers asking for crumbs and settling for even less. "Please let us build this ultra sustainable, multi directional, multi use, all inclusive trail on your land, if not we can make it wheelchair accessible too" needs to be changed to "we are proposing an MTB specfic, directional trail that will attract international attention, boost local economy, and allow for people of all abilities to progress their riding ability, we are needing a yearly budget for trail maintenance costs to provide trail users a safe and exciting experience." Get a local shop or business to be the title sponsor with specific features having smaller sponsors. Make something that can actually challenge a modern trail bike. Blue Steel in Bellingham was sick and it's hard to believe they were able to make it public, we need more stuff like this amongst more actually difficult descents to bring DH bikes back or at least to push a modern trail bike.
Maybe it's also the tire choice and pressure. Maybe the rebound is to slow on one fork and thus the fork is too deep in the travel after consecutive pumps.
Regarding the fork length discussion: I think tire choice - e.g. EXO vs full DH - makes a bigger difference than 2 or even 3 cm of travel.
Similar geo with 170-180mm of travel can and will take the abuse.
(I've know because I've done it!, burly everything, 180mm fork, dh casting tires; I sold it in less than one year because it was too much of a bike riding it anywhere beside lift asisted trails)
a 180 dual crown front 180mm coil rear ultra long, ultra slack, ultra low bike with DH tires and tire inserts isnt the bike you wanna climb even though it'll be darn close to as good as a DH bike. if your going to do that to an enduro you'd be better off putting a big cassette and dropper on a DH bike.
The head angle was 62.5
That bike was ratshit after a week lol. Full rebuild.
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