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Evolution of MTBs

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9/6/2020 7:15 AM

I’m wondering, how much bigger are bikes going to get in the future.
Pictured is my old S Works Enduro against a Mondraker Foxy 275. And a 29er is even bigger Photo

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9/6/2020 2:55 PM

That's 15 years of change there, and most of the longer / slacker is from the last 5.

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9/6/2020 5:50 PM

I would tend to think that the big change has already happened and from here it's about dialing in reaches.

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9/6/2020 7:37 PM
Edited Date/Time: 9/6/2020 7:54 PM

bigger wheels, more suspension, better geometry & kinematics . Like Big Bird said, most changes from here on out will most likely be dialing in the details. Kinda wish I had kept my 2001 santa cruz bullit with marz super T and romic shock just to do a ride comparison with a modern bike.

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9/6/2020 8:46 PM

w4s wrote:

bigger wheels, more suspension, better geometry & kinematics . Like Big Bird said, most changes from here on out will most likely be dialing in the details. Kinda wish I had kept my 2001 santa cruz bullit with marz super T and romic shock just to do a ride comparison with a modern bike.

I've got one with a six inch Dorado, Vanilla and OG Saint.

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9/7/2020 7:53 AM

I think bike design has kind of hit its limit until we see some break thru in materials or manufacturing process that allows bikes to be built much lighter. Sure geometry will get a little more refined here and there but big changes won’t be happening.

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9/7/2020 11:03 AM

Biggest breakthroughs in the future will be low to mid level models getting much closer in performance to the top end bikes. A revolution in the tire/wheel department that will be the biggest improvement of bikes since decent discbrakes or dropperposts. The type of thing that will have you saying I can’t believe we did the old way so long.

Lastly I think gearboxes are inevitable as the pros are undeniable and someone will figure out surpassing the cons At the right price point to basically kill off derailleurs on any bike more than a grand.

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9/7/2020 11:06 AM

I think my bike is 20mm to long. BB to handle bar ends is a bit much for heals down on some obstacles. Already played with stem and bar wight.

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9/7/2020 11:09 AM

Gearbox’s have to much drag (why else do all the gearbox bikes now make derailer l version too) unless there shimanos chain drive job but that will look shit let’s be honest. A pinion style gearbox with a motor on the other hand will mean the drag is a non issue.

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9/7/2020 11:56 AM

Enough is enough when you think it is! wink Up until recently I was on an XL Nicolai G1. I’m 193cm and the reach was 535mm, I told myself it was the right size and rode it hard for six months, but eventually some mates commented and some doubt was introduced. Hopped onto a Large with 515mm reach and way happier now, it has all the stability you’d ever want and turns and pops way nicer.

I think in terms of geometry we’ll only see small changes from here on in. Loooooonnngg bikes make sense if you’re 200cm plus but beyond that reaches and stack is pretty dialled for the rest of us IMO.

The future is better suspension, wheels that don’t break or need truing, short AF seat tubes, 220mm rotors, and 12+ degree backsweep bars across the board.

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9/7/2020 12:20 PM

I think eventually we'll see dual crown forks show up on long travel enduro rigs.

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9/7/2020 12:44 PM

jason.west.750 wrote:

I think eventually we'll see dual crown forks show up on long travel enduro rigs.

Actually, I went to the Fox 40 on my enduro rig. A push coil shock and the big fork and I’m still under 30lbs, 29.9 to be exact Photo

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9/7/2020 1:09 PM

jason.west.750 wrote:

I think eventually we'll see dual crown forks show up on long travel enduro rigs.

digsafe wrote:

Actually, I went to the Fox 40 on my enduro rig. A push coil shock and the big fork and I’m still under 30lbs, 29.9 to be exact Photo

Must be running EXO casings?

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9/7/2020 2:18 PM

Minion DHF 2.5 in front. And I swap between minion ss and DHR 2.3 in back. I’m not running the dual compounds

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9/7/2020 3:33 PM

I got a classic. Took this a few years back.

2014 Devinci Wilson (Ex Dean Lucas worlds bike)
2015 Spec Enduro Evo
1997 Barracuda XXXC

I bought the Barracuda new in 1998 with money I made mowing lawns (I was 14) and it was a shitload of money for a kid. It was a cutting edge bike at the time. Attached is the Geo Chart lol.

I raced XC, FourCross and Downhill on that bad boy! Sadly I sold it as finances were not too hot. I wish I kept it as it's an awesome reminder of some great times on a bike.

Photo

Photo
Photo
Photo

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9/7/2020 3:53 PM

digsafe wrote:

Minion DHF 2.5 in front. And I swap between minion ss and DHR 2.3 in back. I’m not running the dual compounds

Digsafe, can you outline your build for us? A beast like that at 30# sounds really cool!

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9/7/2020 4:38 PM

2018 mondraker foxy 275 RRSL
DTSwiss XMC 1200 w/ 240 hubs xtr microspline
Magura Mt8sl Carbon brakes 180 rear and 203 front
XTR centrrlock rotors
Push 11/6 shock with SAR Spring
XTR cranks, 12 speed 10-51 and XTR derailleur
2018 Fox 40 Elite , airshaft cut to 180mm with MRP cartridge

Fox transfer with wolf tooth thumb
Every bolt has been switched to titanium.
SFG Radar saddle
Truvativ descendant TLD 35mm Carbon bars
Deity direct stem
Odi grips
Crank shop stamp1 pedals.

I’m saving a lot with these wheelsets. I’ve beat the hell out of them with no problems.

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9/7/2020 4:41 PM

I’ll make an edit to my last post. I just got this mondraker frame not too long ago. I had almost the same components that I switched from my 2016 intense tracer. That one weighed in at 29.5

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9/7/2020 8:26 PM

In 1992 I didn’t think it could get any better than my Giant ATX.
In 1994 I was convinced my Trek 8000 was the pinnacle.
In 1999 a DBR X6 was my first full suspension bike. USA made with a Marzocchi Junior T with a QR axle. That was definitely the shit.
Then in 2002 I got a Bullit with a Super T. Best bike ever!
In 2013 I got my first 29er trail bike. Changed my world.
But now it’s 2020 and I can’t imagine riding any of those old bikes or any of the in-betweeners I didn’t mention. Yeah, now bikes are as good as they can get and any improvements will be super minor.

I’d say all of our current bikes are definitely future-proof!

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9/7/2020 8:34 PM
Edited Date/Time: 9/7/2020 8:37 PM

w4s wrote:

bigger wheels, more suspension, better geometry & kinematics . Like Big Bird said, most changes from here on out will most likely be dialing in the details. Kinda wish I had kept my 2001 santa cruz bullit with marz super T and romic shock just to do a ride comparison with a modern bike.

Big Bird wrote:

I've got one with a six inch Dorado, Vanilla and OG Saint.

Which version of saint? The shifter lever disaster? M800 lol

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9/7/2020 9:00 PM

jive turkey wrote:

In 1992 I didn’t think it could get any better than my Giant ATX.
In 1994 I was convinced my Trek 8000 was the pinnacle.
In 1999 a DBR X6 was my first full suspension bike. USA made with a Marzocchi Junior T with a QR axle. That was definitely the shit.
Then in 2002 I got a Bullit with a Super T. Best bike ever!
In 2013 I got my first 29er trail bike. Changed my world.
But now it’s 2020 and I can’t imagine riding any of those old bikes or any of the in-betweeners I didn’t mention. Yeah, now bikes are as good as they can get and any improvements will be super minor.

I’d say all of our current bikes are definitely future-proof!

That been said, I've still yet to find a rear suspension platform that worked as well as the old Devinci wilsons, I ride a lot of bikes and that rear end is just on another planet, be it DH or Enduro nowdays.

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9/7/2020 10:33 PM

brash wrote:

I got a classic. Took this a few years back.

2014 Devinci Wilson (Ex Dean Lucas worlds bike)
2015 Spec Enduro Evo
1997 Barracuda XXXC

I bought the Barracuda new in 1998 with money I made mowing lawns (I was 14) and it was a shitload of money for a kid. It was a cutting edge bike at the time. Attached is the Geo Chart lol.

I raced XC, FourCross and Downhill on that bad boy! Sadly I sold it as finances were not too hot. I wish I kept it as it's an awesome reminder of some great times on a bike.

Photo

Photo
Photo
Photo

I never knew Barracuda made a Sweet Spot bike. Very cool!

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9/8/2020 1:16 AM

Like many of the other posters, I've been through a lot of evolution since my first whip, an '88 Rockhopper. It would seem we've gotten to a plateau in development. But don't be fooled. Things will keep changing and "improving."

Will it become a situation like the automotive world, where electronic intervention has supposedly made things better, yet there is a lack of driver engagement in so many modern sports cars that it sends many enthusiasts looking back to something more pure and without "driver aids" and intrusive safety features? Is a hardtail analogous to a '68 Lotus Elan? It is not all that different than the current situation with enduro vs trail vs xc vs downcountry bikes and the concept of being overbiked.

Live valve suspension. Electronic shifting that needs battery charges and software updates. Electric motors on our bikes that have adaptive control modules to help you along. GPS tracking of every ride so you can share it, in real time, with all your followers, and practically never get lost.

One could take an apocolyptic view of the trajectory we seem to be heading.

Or you can pick one of the current crop of crazy fast and fun riding machines and go hit the trails! The options and variety are fantastic.

The march of development and change will not stop, but don't let it dampen your enthusiasm for riding. New bike day will always be awesome, even if your new bike is a gravel bike made by a company called Evil. 😜

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9/8/2020 1:32 AM

jason.west.750 wrote:

I think eventually we'll see dual crown forks show up on long travel enduro rigs.

digsafe wrote:

Actually, I went to the Fox 40 on my enduro rig. A push coil shock and the big fork and I’m still under 30lbs, 29.9 to be exact Photo

Mtbforlife4 wrote:

Must be running EXO casings?

lol, fox 40 on an enduro bike + dt swiss xmc1200 wheels... spot the mistake?! wink

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9/8/2020 7:19 AM

digsafe wrote:

Actually, I went to the Fox 40 on my enduro rig. A push coil shock and the big fork and I’m still under 30lbs, 29.9 to be exact Photo

Mtbforlife4 wrote:

Must be running EXO casings?

krabo83 wrote:

lol, fox 40 on an enduro bike + dt swiss xmc1200 wheels... spot the mistake?! wink

Yes. I know, but it rocks! The fork is overkill but it rides perfectly and has a great look to it. It’s also something different and not a cookie cutter right off the showroom floor

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9/8/2020 8:28 AM

Looks good. maxx grip compound on the front looks even better with exo+ or dd casing on the back

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9/8/2020 9:39 AM

jason.west.750 wrote:

I think eventually we'll see dual crown forks show up on long travel enduro rigs.

digsafe wrote:

Actually, I went to the Fox 40 on my enduro rig. A push coil shock and the big fork and I’m still under 30lbs, 29.9 to be exact Photo

How is that possible?

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9/8/2020 2:09 PM
Edited Date/Time: 9/8/2020 2:16 PM

The three bikes I've ridden since 2008. 2008 Meta 5.5 (L), 2015 Reign (L) and a 2019 Bird AM9 (XL). 26, 27,5 and 29", 140, 160 and 150 mm (front and back).

Photo

If anything, I want to go steeper on the seat tube angle, that would mean an even longer bike (the ETT or the cockpit should stay roughly the same), but I would like to try out a bike with either a shorter reach/cockpit (just to see what it's like) and maybe with a steeper (yeah...) headtube angle (to shorten the wheelbase and bring the front axle closer to me with a long enough cockpit). And when I say 'I'd like to try out' I mean like with a mule that has these aspects adjustable without changing anything else (and keeping the geometry still rideable or proper, so an angleset is not the solution).

As for what the future holds... When someone makes a working gearbox or someone designs a clean idler setup (or a layshaft setup), I think high(er) pivots could become more ubiquitous. 29ers need them as increasing the wheel sizes has made the axle paths more forward compared to smaller wheels (just the nature of BB and rear axle position and the antisquat requirements). Plus the chainstay lengths have gotten long and the seat tubes are bent/slack to fit the wheels under the seat, a higher pivot does away with this. I think that should be the biggest change in the next few years.

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9/8/2020 2:18 PM

LLLLL wrote:

I think my bike is 20mm to long. BB to handle bar ends is a bit much for heals down on some obstacles. Already played with stem and bar wight.

Experiencing the same issue, tried out SPDs because of that. Didn't turn out well for now :D

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9/8/2020 2:21 PM

brash wrote:

That been said, I've still yet to find a rear suspension platform that worked as well as the old Devinci wilsons, I ride a lot of bikes and that rear end is just on another planet, be it DH or Enduro nowdays.

Old Wilson as in? Pre-Split Pivot? Or the smaller wheel versions of the Split Pivot bikes?

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