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Yeah it sucks how little info there is out there, and it's not a small gap but a gaping hole which creates a kind of paradox where I'm cautious about how much I put out because it's so easy to be misinterpreted. But then there are people (companies, tuners, forum experts) who make all sorts of claims but no way to verify any of it. The consumer just has to accept they know what they are talking about? And most of the journalists writing about tech stuff aren't any more informed either.... I'll come back in the next day or...

Points #1 and #4 can kind of go both ways, I often get riders who a) think something is wrong with there damper, I test it and its within spec so they're like "OK something else is going on then" or b) Experience some kind of issue like sore hands, struggling with grip or harsh terrain and think it's their fault and they aren't good enough or strong enough. I test it and see a major problem, and can fix it and things are way better Either way its confirmation and closure for them, and don't feel like they're going...

My interest has been spurred by the fact that I never got along with the Charger 3, and the difference in what I got from Rockshox and what I got back from a nationally-known tuner was about as subtle as a frying pan to the face. I was formerly in the camp of "at 210, I'm barely within the range of a stock damper and I should worry about something else." I moved without leaving a forwarding address. I've come to two central conclusions. First, I don't think the people at Rockshox, Fox, etc. aren't as smart as that tuner...

Those are all great points I generally agree with, other than I'd say that, to some degree, the points about chasing the perfect setup, Greg Minnaar, and requiring a PHD are straw men. That's not what I'm saying or seeking. I just bought a Lift damper, which doesn't even have a HSC adjuster. You'll never catch me on anything but GX cranks and X01 mechanical (unless I get really convinced Transmission offers much longer chain and cassette lifespans on my mid-powered ebike). I've never owned a frame for less than four years. I'm running 7-yr old Code RSC's on my...

I didn't think you were calling me out! I've enjoyed the conversation. After thinking about it some more, maybe the reason some of the manufacturers don't publish the damping curves is that the pictures aren't very pretty? Maybe some regressive curves and compression adjusters that don't have much range? I'm in my mid 40s. Compared to when I was younger, I drink a lot less, sleep more, eat healthier, do more mobility work, etc. I view spending a little more time and money on suspension the same way. As I am less and less capable of compensating for shortcomings in...

I think you've made a lot of good points about the industry, and pretty much nailed a lot of the things I've noticed. The big brands like Fox and Rockshox are always going to be making products to work really well for the widest range of people, as they should! And they do it well, but there is a lot of marketing and journalism that makes out that the newest Factory or ultimate-level fork is the greatest thing ever made, and considering bike prices you would be forgiven for thinking that! But there is a significant number of people who...

I really appreciate that first sentence. Very reassuring that I haven't totally gotten lost in trying to learn more about this. Going stir crazy on family beach vacation and this has better than worrying about work. I thought your Insta post the other day was great and illustrated some of the benefits in a concrete manner. I'd also say kudos on recognizing that fox and rockshox make necessary products (something has be on complete bikes) and do a pretty damn good job of it. Tuner attitudes that oem stuff is patently terrible gives off a snake-oil vibe that I think...

Yeah people like you are pretty much the reason I started the suspension lab - I could see a large enough group of people that either weren't getting enough help ie everyone outside of the typical PB commenter or bike shop staff the industry thinks is the majority (spoiler: they are not). Or just really wanted to get in to the details of tuning and maximising their bike. Funny thing is even the elite athletes struggle to get decent technical support - most shops can build wheels or rebuild a shock that might last a year under a weekend warrior...

So anyway I did mention I'd post some data for this thread, here are the tests I've run on charger 3 & 3.1 in the past. Blue is 3.0 fully open and fully closed, red is 3.1. The HSC adjuster is less noticeable when the LSC is closed, its effect is more at very high speeds, but overall I found it to be pretty consistent with what they claimed. The interesting things are in the second 2 pictures This is a pretty typical compression speed distribution plot I pulled from a 160mm Enduro fork data logging run, the 2 black...

Also Ohlins has published their settings info in the past - I had these saved and couldn't remember where from but it was actually a 2018 press release for the updated TTX18 damper. It also shows their HSC working in a much more useful speed range! Not sure how this relates to current forks - unfortunately there isn't much support for them here so I don't have any actual info on what they sell today

HUGE thanks for taking the time to post all of this. I may actually understand a decent chunk of it. The speeds-that-actually-matter was a huge help. I've read and got notes about speeds, and what you're saying totally checks out. But I probably would have missed it if you hadn't pointed it out. Again, I think with a little education avid riders could attain a level of understanding that would empower us to call BS on this sort of thing. Doesn't seem all that different from looking at anti-squat curves for different cogs, where a consumer-level understanding of what's going...

Frida through to Finals. Dak p1 in qualis and semis. Good weekend for the Tennessee power couple so far!

That site's not fit for purpose, it seems to go down every round. I clicked on results and it showed Asa with the fastest time, refreshed and it showed him in 96th with a time of over 21 minutes! Refreshed again and he's back in N0.1 spot. UCI you really do suck. On a more positive note that's some tight racing between Asa and Max!

It's running now again, apparently some delay on site.

Seems like it!