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We talked about this in the Tech Rumors thread, but getting more power to the pedals is almost the entire ball game in XC racing, and the main benefit of a lower stack height and more hunched over body position in XC racing is the kinesthetically optimized position for mashing the pedals. Easier to mash the pedals when you’re bunched up in a little ball. Speeds are lower than road racing, so being hunched over for aerodynamics is less important.
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Yeah thats pretty much what I was going to say! When they say to start with "sag" I think they are just meaning to set the spring rate full stop, in whatever method so its at least in the ballpark. ie not just bolting it on with whatever spring or pressure it had in the box. And I always like to work through spring rate first - find the point which is definitely too stiff and too soft and then work back in from there. Its amazing how often the "sag" can seem about right and not obviously too stiff...
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It sounds like I might need to start over... if you were starting with my Sentinel (160mm Lyrik Ultimate, 160mm rear with the retuned/overstroked SDU), what would your order of operations be? If you're tuning spring rate until things feel right, when DO you start turning knobs?

TEAMROBOT Liked a reply to forum topic Suspension Component Technology/Functionality Discussion

8/27/2025 4:04pm
These are great questions. You're absolutely right that sag measurements or recommendations are not sacrosanct or miraculous, and there are instances where more or less sag than recommended is going to yield a better riding bike. But we're talking about nuances that are way, way, way above the average rider, and lightyears above the riders that Jordi is speaking to on those Fox videos. As a company, Fox has to deal with angry customers and bad online reviews from people who are riding three or four spring rates off from correct sag and complaining about the compression settings being "too...
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I always struggle with knowing if I should lower spring rate and add volume spacers/compression damping, or if I should increase spring rate and remove damping in order to get compliant but supportive feel. I used to focus purely on soft initial feel and bottom out resistance, so I would run a lot less air with a ton of spacers...

notthatbryan Liked a reply to forum topic Suspension Component Technology/Functionality Discussion

8/27/2025 3:54pm
Setting sag with a repeatable method is the starting point. The most important thing you need to do when setting up suspension is good basic trouble shooting, make one change at a time and record your changes. You will adjust from there, but sag gets you in the ballpark for spring rate. Damping is highly dependent on spring rate, so if your spring rate is way off it's very difficult to get damping set up correctly. My process to setup new suspension is to set sag and then find the manufacturer damper setting recommendations that correspond to that air pressure...
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Gotcha. Followup question/maybe just rephrasing the question: since there's a relatively wide window of methodology for measuring sag, how do you know if you have the correct spring rate with the wrong settings, vs just having the wrong spring rate? With air suspension, I feel like I tend to get caught in a loop where I measured sag as precisely...

ebruner Liked a reply to forum topic Suspension Component Technology/Functionality Discussion

8/27/2025 1:10pm
Validating you have the correct spring rate is important. Achieving that with a repeatable sag measurement, data acquisition, gopro recording however you want to do it is not important. What is important is that you have a repeatable process that isn't just based on 'feel'. the various methods for setting sag are a great starting point for consumers to take measurements.
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Primoz Liked a reply to forum topic Suspension Component Technology/Functionality Discussion

8/27/2025 1:10pm
Having the 'correct' sag, whatever the amount is, ensures you have a spring that is stiff enough, but not too stiff. You can't make the suspension work with the damper if your spring is off.
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john_likes_bikes Liked a reply to forum topic Tire chat (nerds only)

8/27/2025 1:09pm
From pit bits
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Here's a question that's been ping-ponging around my head for a bit now: is sag actually critically important, or is it just a jumping off point? I see Fox (or at least Jordi), Cane Creek, etc. claiming that sag MUST be set properly before adjusting anything else, but also that the method you use to set sag doesn't really matter...
I'm curious why we don't see modern XC bikes with more of a long chainstay/high stack setup. I understand that short chainstay/low stack can keep things whippy and playful, but the cornering stability/climbing grip/more open chest seems like it could be a boon for both actual XC racing and increasing the capability of the bike for recreational riding.
Update: changed the shock from C26 to C34 compression tune and went to 65mm stroke while I was at it. I've never had a piece of suspension retuned before - what a game-changer. The biggest and most important change is that the bike no longer see-saws front to back in chunky sections, but what I wasn't expecting is that it's...

TEAMROBOT Liked a reply to forum topic Tire chat (nerds only)

8/24/2025 9:21pm
This is a great question! At the most basic level, grip = friction x force. There's a fixed amount of mechanical friction that can occur between the ground and the durometer of the rubber for any given amount of force, so a single row of side knobs maximizes the force distributed onto those knobs (as opposed to distributing it across the side knobs and the transition knobs, which would be a larger total surface area). Think of it like stepping on a single nail vs. lying down on a bed of nails. A single nail can puncture even a thick...
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snowsnakes Added a reply to Tire chat (nerds only)

8/24/2025 9:21pm
Thanks for the in-depth explanation! I was saying yesterday that the Argotal feels like 100% grip is in the cornering knobs, where the Kryptotal Front feels like 80% of the grip is in the cornering knobs so you can have 20% grip for the transition knobs, so I guess I wasn’t too far off.

Dogboy Liked a reply to forum topic Tire chat (nerds only)

8/24/2025 3:32pm
I've ridden all of the tires you mention extensively and most of the combinations. I'd rule out the Rekon/DHR II combo as I think they are a little too far apart to make a good combo. I'd probably go Forekaster/Forekaster or Forekaster/new Dissector - I'm keen to try that setup soon. Rekons can be super fun in dry/predictable conditions, but the Forekaster feels like it only gives up a little rolling speed for a good bit more grip. Good luck!
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snowsnakes Added a reply to Tire chat (nerds only)

8/24/2025 1:47pm
Serious tire nerd question here: why do tires with transition knobs feel less secure when they're fully on edge? The overall sentiment seems to be that tires with a channel in between center and side knobs are most locked in in a corner, but I don't quite get how the transition knobs would affect that sensation.
If you ran 27.7% sag with the 65 mm stroke shock you’d find you need the exact same amount of pressure.
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Are you comparing 30% sag of 65 mm to 30% sag of what it was at before? Damping tune does not impact sag.
This forum topic has 494 replies.