I'm trying to come up with a shortlist of potential enduro bikes for me, after down-biking to a Bronson 5 from a Nomad 6 last year, and finding myself wanting more travel. The stuff I ride normally is all rideable at 150/160, it's just more fun and less sketchy with 170mm. I've overshocked/overforked the Bronson into a Bromad, but it didn't get it where I want to be. I've got a Vala that I've overforked and overshocked to 160/170 (Vallit mode), and that thing rides so good and is so quiet in comparison. So looking at alternatives that are long travel, stable, agile, but will respond to input when goofing around. I'm going to be custom building from frame up, so components are irrelevant. I've done a lot of off-menu tinkering on my bikes over the years, so have an idea what I want for geo (fortunately it's fairly baseline for modern designs).
Here's my spec wishlist:
- straight seat tube, no more than 405mm long (so I can run 200mm AXS), ~78* STA (or greater)
- ~63.5-64 HTA
- 455-465 reach (size medium), 440+ chainstays
- low BB (~340-345), high stack (635+) (I think this combo is part of why I find my Vallit so confidence inspiring)
- 160-170mm rear travel that pedals well
- 170mm fork (although willing to consider 180)
- various technical non-negotiables: MX/mullet, 73mm BSA, no headset cable routing, Boost 148, 31.6 dia. seatpost, frameset option
- quiet (no creaks, rattles, etc.)
- moderate progression (25%ish)
- moderate anti-rise (60-70%ish)
Shortlist of bikes that have caught my eye:
- Frameworks Enduro (only issues I see are long chainstays 450 in med, availability)
- Orbea Rallon (would rather have ZS headset than proprietary, reach a tad short)
- Yeti LT (pricy, seat tube is too long, stack is a bit low, X2)
- Raaw Madonna (long & bent seat tube)
- Atherton A170 (price makes Yeti blush, crappy CS protection, no kinematic info in typical DW fashion)
None of them have my preferred shock (Vivid air) so I'd be selling the stock shock regardless.
Any bikes I've missed that fit? Anyone have long term experience on the Rallon or Frameworks? Particularly interested in noise, paint durability, other stuff that doesn't show up in "first ride reviews." I saw on the Freehub review he said Rallon was noisy, but PB said the enduro version of it was very quiet unlike the DH version. Cool factor of the FW is hard to deny, as is the custom paint of the Orbea.
stupid question-what did you not like about the nomad/what of those boxes did it not tick for you? or just wanting to try something different?
It's not a bad bike by any means - my buddy who bought my frame loves it. My gripes were that when set up to be stable, it felt dead on mellow trails, and when set up to be playful, it kinda bounced around. (I think the AS was quite high.) Also the chainslap was really loud. I replaced it with a Bronson which has a more plush kinematic, but less travel so it is playful with grip. Chainslap is still an issue (even with Ochain and my crank end covered in mastic tape). You can run a 65mm coil in the Bronson to make it 170 rear (X2 or Vivid are limited to 60mm stroke or they'll hit frame), but I prefer air for bottom-out. A 65mm Super Deluxe would fit but it's just not the same memory foam feel as a Vivid. Both Bronson and Nomad's shock tunnel prevents me from running a 200mm AXS dropper in them (bottoms out on tunnel before collar), which isn't the end of the world but the first few steep turns on my Vala with it's 200 feel so nice. All nitpicks, to be sure. Realistically, probably just reasons looking to try something new and different.
Me a few years ago couldn't believe I'd say this, but I wouldn't mind having a heavier frame (not wheels/tires) to help with grip. So something like the FW or Orbea with it's add-on weights have appeal.
Iv got an s170. I imagine they ride pretty similar. They want to be ridden firm and forceful. Not a bike that just wants to coast along. On your good days it’s the most fun. On my slow winter days I ride my slower bike. It really is a wild animal . Very sick tho
The build quality is brilliant. I’m no local hot shit ripper but I love to ride regular and never had any issues with frame quality etc. the rear shock blew up for some reason in the warranty period . They sorted it no drama and sent me the brand new vivid coil as a replacement which was an upgrade
Ripmo? Firebird?
The Ripmo is beloved by heaps of people, and has that hard to mimic DW feel.
The Firebird does too, but experiences with Pivot for warranty support can vary.
Would a Wreckoning LS work?
I just buy a Banshee titan. I am so impressed on how it rides... Dual link 155m of travel, mullet or not. 2 defautls. Seat angle and insert lenght.
I just ride it 5 times, including 2 times in bikepark. I send 4 meters roadgap, and big jumps with, the bike handle it so good. I came from a Zoceli Naosm. Two different vision, but i prefer the banshee because of the position, chainstay is 452mm. The bike balanced, poppy, plush, fun.
Might not be the common recommendation but I'm in love with Reeb Steezl. Great quality, super robust, pedals better than it should, mullet flip chip, external routing, straight seat tube. You can get 445 chainstay if ordered new with M size. Horst Link layout is quite predictable in its kinematics and easy to tune the shock for. Did I mention how quiet it is, especially with Onyx hubs? Funny enough, the guy that I bought the frame from snapped the chainstay on his new Rallon on a 3rd ride.
I've had Bronson V4 and it just felt dead to me, the huge downtube amplified all the trail chatter.
I'm building Nicolai G1 GPI which is on more radical spectrum but plan on keeping Steezl for sure.
FWIW the Nomad 7 largely fixes that issue. The frame is a bit less stiff and the suspension handles chunk better, I've got mine set up on the more playful end of the spectrum and I'm able to carry those settings in to technical terrain just fine. It's not completely fixed but its a huge improvement, if you use an O-Chain it fully fixes it.
A quick glance, and damn, that does look to tick most of my boxes. I've never owned a steel bike, but not counting it out. Thanks for suggesting that one! I'll have to research it more. Even with a bit less travel than I was thinking, it might work with a beefy fork and the right balance of weight and compliance.
That suggestion made me think of Chromag also, which unfortunately suffers from bent seat tube syndrome.
Responding to others suggested here:
Pivot / Ibis / Evil / Banshee - all fail various dealbreaker criteria for me (SuperBoost, short chainstays, long seat tubes, etc.)
The raaw is very good. I am on a medium with 180mm and its about as good as it gets. Its like a euro frameworks for a bit cheaper that you can run full 29.
With 445mm chainstays you can run full 65mm stroke on the shock that should get you close to 162mm of rear travel. And you don't have to buy it with the shock, Reeb will sell the frame alone or with only some necessary bits if needed.
Also very happily on a medium Steezl with the 445 chainstay, running it mullet and over-stroked to 162 rear/170 front travel. Relative to your asks it does have a higher BB (~350mm) and lower stack, but with some riser bars it's fine. The progression is also kind of low (~20% I think?) but they hooked me up with a Tigon when I ordered and it's worked great.
Trek Fuel Lx/Mx and the Devinci Spartan fit the bill pretty well.
Have you considered a Revel Ritual?
Where are you riding most often? I'm interested because I ride all over california and have a nomad 6, a hightower 4 and a bullit. I honestly found the n6 platform to be pretty easy to morph into whatever I wanted it to be. With an air shock, it was very playful and easy to move around... with a coil shock and a cascade link, it was very planted and stable. My only real complaint is that the frame is slightly too stiff and there it took a lot of fiddling to find a spot where the support, plushness and feedback to the rider was properly balanced.
I digress, I was just shopping for replacements for my nomad 6... not for any reason in particular. I ended up building up a cheap DH bike instead of getting rid of my bike, but these are the options I felt were viable:
-Raww Madonna (leading choice, great bike, still sorta want one)
-Orbea Rallon - Test rode one, neat bike but feels a bit compromised as an enduro package. Back end was very flexy and felt unbalanced (in terms of flex) to the front. Braking performance (kinematics) felt a bit strange and would take some getting used to coming off of SC bikes.
-Pivot firebird (great bike, almost no notes) superboost was a detractor for me
-Nomad 7 - Goldilocks... not interesting, more of the same. That being said, it felt the best of the bunch, was the most balanced and felt the most comfortable of everything I swung a leg over. The N7 felt like it was fun and worth riding at slow speeds and high speeds and everything in between. It would be my choice.
Megatower, but not mullet-able, so Nomad.
I'm in Half Moon Bay, about an hour north of Santa Cruz. Trails are a few blocks from my house. Crappier dirt up here, but obvious influence in trail building. Thanks for the feedback on those bikes. Interesting to hear on the Rallon, as in Matt Beer's PB review he commented on the rear being too flexy in DH mode but felt it was OK in Enduro mode. Any more thoughts on the N7 kinematic vs. your HT4? I'd assume it'd be similar but more squish. I don't think I could really justify going from B5 to N7 - they've got to be super similar once you have comparable parts on them.
Responding to other suggestions:
Madonna - would love this to be an option but the combo of dogleg seat tube and 420mm ST length kills it for me. A shame because I know a couple of XL riders who have them and like them, but I'm a solid medium.
Ritual - looked at this this morning, and shares the seat tube issues (bent/too long) and high BB. Ditto for Propain and Devinci.
I looked into the Trek Fuel a few weeks back, digging up their off-menu geo chart. Unfortunately I can't find a 160/170 MX setup that isn't super low and super slack.
Could you get away with a HD6 with either a +8 mm or +13 mm Jank link? The seat tube would be a bit slack, but you could potentially get around that with a Fair Bicycles offset seatpost clamp.
Interesting, didn't know about those. The Ripmo with the 8mm link looks pretty decent. I do see that the HD6 is on clearance, I bet they're about to release an HD7. If that comes out with the geo of the new Oso, that could be really dialed for me.
you can also set up the raaw to have very similar geo to the fw, if you're interested in trying fw style geo without fully committing
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