Specialized Downhill Team Dynamics - Jordan and Finn Winning with Loic Absent

Holy throwback Spomer lol... Yeah that doesn't look good in context.

I kinda wanted to pull some other context to go by. I believe Jordan won his very first go on the old Demo, and Finn won at MSA on one of the very first proto builds. Someone correct me if I'm wrong. (Also I believe Finn was on the proto like half way through 2022, before Loic, which was weird... And Jordan wasn't on it until 2024.)

So there's probably not much in saying 'the new production bike is just THAT good'. Although that narrative has been spreading which... Seems a touch silly given how developed the proto was by at least last year? But ultimately Finn and Jordan had some injury woes on and off which may be the biggest narrative AGAINST this fun tin foil full face helmet conspiracy theory.

Again, I was really avoiding this narrative (that others had already mentioned) until they went 4 for 4 with 2 different riders. We're breaching the coincidence excuse fairly quickly lol

First season of Nico on the team yeah? Could be an interesting conversation at the end of year.

Great team, great bike, great riders. Comes down to resource allocation and having more time for the guys that are left.

Some unconscious rider hierarchy bias probably comes into it.

How good would it be for Jordan to clap back at Jackson the year after he has the season of his life? Those two still battling years after their junior fight.

I don’t think anything’s changed tbh, Finn took most of last year off to properly recover and spent the whole winter riding and on good health, Jordan having Nico there as a coach is obviously going to help. If anything if Loic wasn’t injured it would mean just more Specialized team riders in the top 5 

Even though Finn didn’t win in 23 and 24 he got a lot of podiums, including a second place behind Loic. With his back injury last year, he talked about that and not having time to adjust to the new bike, while this year he seems to be fully recovered and has had more time on the new bike. I know Jordon has also had some injuries the last couple years. Both riders have showed they had the speed to win in 22 and 23, so it could just be a coincidence that for this season both of them are healthy and have had time to get dialed on the new bike, at the same time Loic got injured. Or Loic has a secret number of clicks on his suspension to make sure he goes faster than his teammates. 

The Extraterrestrial is more important to the team's recent success than the bike or Loic being gone.

I’m sure loic would like to see his team win in his absence.

Pressure will be on everyone when loic returns.  Which loic certainly thrives on more than most.

I don't know anything about nothing, but find it interesting that Finns first win also came when Loic was injured (I believe), and Loic has said he plays mind games. Seems good at them?

He often remarked how mind games were something  he observed by Greg Minaar.  Is Loic a bully behind the scenes?

Good to great racers all seem to be cocky pricks. “Nice guys finish last” is a saying for a reason. Two and a half minutes into a full gas run I don’t think anyone is thinking about that comment Loic made. If they are, their head isn’t in the game and that’s on them. 

Loic probably sucks up all the testosterone when he's in the room. Jordan and Finn might scoot out of the way when he passes by .. 

The moment I remove the "alpha" rooster from my backyard flock another takes his job after a brief squabble.

Loic always got preferential treatment. They all talked about it many times. 

Loic being out has always been the thing Finn needed. Jordan I don’t know, he’s more of an enigma. 

That said, they were all flying in S. Korea. Nico being in the team must be a game changer. 

Here's a challenge: name another team with three elite male racers who could win on any given day. Was that team able to sustain that level of parity between their riders? I have to go back to IronHorse Madcatz or Volvo Cannondale in my mental rolodex to think of a team that's had this level of talent on the payroll.

What's most impressive and surprising is that Specialized (who typically cannot wait to drop underperforming riders) has kept Jordan on the payroll for the four years of consistently upper midpack results since his first win so that he had time to find his form again. Super cool for Jordan and Specialized get to see that patience pays off sometimes.

That's unfair cuz Commencal has like 3-4 teams so it's effectively a loophole

Well Jordan's junior performance and first elite win definitely helped, so it really ensured the form could be found again (eventually). But I am more impressed at Spesh committing to Finn who looked like he might turn into a 'what if' rider in terms of injuries. So, arguably, both guys.

We need an uber stat nerd to see if Finn and Jordan have some of the highest variance between results since they joined elite. When I think of hot and cold riders, I think of Finn and Jordan. And now that's changed. Far from the staggering consistency of riders like Troy and Luca. Somebody flush a bunch of water down for a chatGPT answer on that, I'm sure it won't run the stats wrong.

Wasn't the Syndiacte in a similar situation with Peaty, Minnaar and Ratboy?

Maybe a fraction of a step below, but I would include the current Commencal Muc-Off team.

Amaury, Loris, and the two Alrans. The latter haven’t won yet, but I don’t think any of us doubt the day is coming for both and very soon. 

...both Minnaar and Vergier won on the Syndicate together, and Luca was in contention throughout his time there.  2017-2020.

This is all pure speculation in my head...

But its very interesting that as soon as Loic is out of the picture, the other riders find their form in a big way.
It's hard not to wonder is this because Loic is the golden boy on the team and the others maybe always feel like they are in his shadow? The psychological effect must be there, suddenly Loic is missing and the others can maybe get into the zone on race run? Maybe it has felt like a weight off the shoulders not having to deal with Loic?

Loic does seem like a nice dude in real life, but I have no idea what he's like behind the scenes. Would he be playing mind games even with his team mates? I can understand mind games with Jackson etc but Loic does comes across as a pretty decent guy, no nasty vibes from him. 

But on the other hand, maybe Loic being missing has nothing to do with it?
I could certainly see him being very supportive to his team mates, but as mentioned, people who have the drive to win in the way that Loic does, often do everything they can to ensure a win.
It's still possible that Loic is a decent guy on the team, doesn't play mind games with his team mates and tries to support them, but even if that is the case, the others might still always have it in the back of their minds that he's the golden boy.

I still think that Loic being missing is having a positive psychological effect for Jordan and Finn. 
Imagine the pre race nerves? I can't comment on World Cup level pre race nerves, shit, I get nervy as soon as I press record on my GoPro never mind dropping into a world cup race.
I think those pre race nerves must be even slightly more settled knowing that Loic isn't racing against them...

Or... maybe just nah and these boys have always been fast as fuck and it just coincidence? Or maybe the insight Nico has brought has been huge for them?

It'd pretty interesting either way. I'm curious to see how the rest of the season pans out and especially if Loic will make any races later in the season.



 

I’m sure we are all hilariously wrong, but it’s fun to guess what it’s like behind the scenes. Hopefully all 3 will be on the big S for years to come. 

I think Peaty's last WC win was at Windham in 2012 and Ratboy's first win was Leogang 2014, so the three of them were never a triple threat for the podium at the same time. Obviously Minnaar started winning in 2001 and his last win was 2021 (I think), so he was a threat the whole time.

I also thought of the Peaty/Rennie/Minnaar Syndicate triple threat, but that only lasted for one year in 2008. Greg won the World Cup event that year at Canberra (which was the test event for World Champs) and Rennie got second, which I think was Rennie's last hurrah at the pointy end of the results sheet. By 2009 Rennie was off the Syndicate.

Now the Commencal team is a good call, because they're had crazy depth across their teams, but it is different being on the same bike vs. spending every day at the race in the same pit. I wonder if that's an especially hard dynamic to navigate mentally and emotionally in terms of having a clear "top dog." There doesn't have to be any ill will or bad faith for unspoken mental and emotional stuff to creep in and start making unconscious assumptions on behalf of your own brain. That's why it's so interesting that Finn and Jordan catapulted up the standings.

The final results at South Korea, when all three of them were healthy, were Loic in second, Jordan Williams in 27th, and Finn in 29th. Now, I'll grant you that Jordan qualified in 11th in Mona Yongpyong and was in first place at the first split in finals, but all of his other splits after that 29th, 28th, 27th, 27th. No one would have bet after those results that Finn would win two in a row and then Jordan would win two in a row, especially after a four-year win drought for both of them. Very interesting.

I do think it has a lot to do with team support and maybe NV10 helping with the prep and mental game, but...

I'm pretty sure Loic has said in an interview that whatever tech Jack and him develop, they get exclusive access for the full season until the next year. So Loic could have been on better suspension with a smarter electronics system than the other boys in previous years, but now they get the full system. Added to that wasn't it last year (could be 2 years back) that Finn said his off season getting used to the electronics went so bad he nearly gave up on the system? So all in all, it is possible that they now have something better and have had the time to understand how it works.

Also, as they are mentioned above, the Alran bros are an interesting science experiment as they are effectively clones.When asked who is fastest, they always answer "whichever one of us wasn't injured last", which tracks with Max being head and shoulders above his brother last year who had been injured, but unable to match his pace this year following an injury in the last race of 2025.

Should be mentioned that Finn and Jordan were looking really on form in South Korea before both flatted. Both probably would have given loic a run for his money. 

Or you could go full conspiracy theory and say they gave loic better tires and after he was out said ok well i guess finn and Jordan can have the tires that don’t flat now. 

Yes! I forgot they both flatted! Thank you for filling in that mental gap. Now I remember being shocked about it, because allegedly all those boys are on Cushcore front and rear. You can still punch a hole in a tire with Cushcore installed, but I was still surprised. Thought it was more likely that they took the pool noodles out for the South Korea track and rolled the dice on tire survival.

Syndicate Loris, Luca and Greg.  I know your going to say Luca didn’t win but he definitely could have won many times,

He definitely was a hair's breath from winning multiple times. But again, that team arrangement only lasted for one or maybe two years, IIRC. Rumor was that it got weird on the team with mind games over roles in the group and who was top dog.

Maybe we are thinking this the wrong way around. Before it was "comfy" for them as there was no pressure to perform as Loic got the results to make the team happy. Now that he is out of the picture, they get all the attention but also cannot hide. While I don't think this is direct team pressure, it still mentally changes something in you being in the situation.

I think some of it comes down to the preparation and general team setup for sure. Finn has mentioned in the past that Loic kinda gets to do his own thing with special perks, I think clearly with him out those are spread around a little more. I don't think it's just parts and setup, but physio, massages and physical therapy, rest areas, etc might all be a step up. I never understood the top dog theory when the talent is that deep, it serves the individual athlete well but obviously the team can do better if all athletes are mostly equally prepared. 

All that said Finn and Jordan are both fast and both had this coming their way for a long time as long as they were consistent and worked at it, but the timing is slightly suspicious. 

Just before Jordan's first elite race, I once commented that it was an odd dynamic that Jordan had gone to be 3rd string rider at Spesh, whereas Goldstone realistically immediately became #1 at Syndicate.

Jordan could have walked in to being lead rider on most (or at least half) of the teams that year, which he then backed up with a win straight away. I can't imagine he was short of offers so what did they dangle to him? Just a bigger cheque? or was joining Loic and Finn part of the allure?

Loic, Finn and Jordan dynamics aside, it's still wild to me that a company the size of Specialized doesn't have an elite woman on the elite downhill team.