I have two Transitions and heard going they eat bearings. This has been confirmed by how many times I am pressing in main pivot bearings lol. When I rode a Spesh it seemed to do better shielding the bearings and I changed them less.
I live in slop country so I know I am gonna have more issues than desert rats, but I still think it is a consideration for a frame's value prop. The price is right on Transition making it worthwhile to have to bother with bearings more often in my opinion. My question to the room is: is this worth caring about? Do you own extractors and presses and do the labor yourself? Do you consider paying a shop to do that work? Is a lifetime supply of bearings worth paying exorbitant rates to get a Santa Cruz frame? Should brands be upfront with how accessible and easy to access bearings are? (looking at you Norco and Commencal.)
Please chime in with any thoughts on frame service for the end user!
I've been riding SC frames for the past eight years, what is this "pressing in main pivot bearings"? Sounds painful. 🤔
Am a high desert rat, northern desert of Arizona, not the other kind of high...so I would place my thoughts in context compared to say folks in the UK or PNW.
When I'm looking at a frame I consider the difficulty and pain of bearing replacement as far as how many bearings, how many different sizes/are they non-standard sizes (can I upgrade to higher quality bearings at some point?), and does the frame seem to suffer from a crab link design needing more frequent replacement because they use tiny bearings and/or they don't include any shielding from the elements.
I do my own bearing replacement stunts but researching how big of a pain it will be, and how often, to maintain or replace the bearings does factor into my decision when two frames are pretty similar since that is a hidden cost of ownership.
If frame A and frame B that I'm looking at (or bikes, I usually buy frames) are similar in specs and likely ride fun but one is going to be a higher amount of work for bearing replacement or bearing life that would tip the scale for me.
SC are easy to work on and the free bearing thing is a good gimmick to get people to consider them. I reckon the bean counters at PON/SC have a good sense for how often bearings given a set of parameters and conditions would need to be replaced, rolling data on how many people religiously take them up on the replacement per year, and that cost is rolled into the frame/bike cost up front.
Better I suppose than some brands or bikes where there are 375 proprietary sized bearings and the replacement process in the frame or linkage design seems like not even an afterthought or banks on you having divine intervention available to you to assist in the process.
When I had a gen 1 Sentinel, I replaced the bearings about twice a year. Even though the Specialized bearings are decently shielded, when I owned a Levo I burned through a lot of them (at the seatstay pivot) either because the frame was too flexy or the tolerance was poor. On the other hand, I've never had to actually utilize the free bearings offered by SC. The only time I took advantage of it was just before I sold my Nomad frame to a buddy - wanted to make sure he was covered just in case.
Is “a lot” more or less than twice a year? Because twice a year sounds like a lot to me.
This may not always be the case, but a lifetime bearing warranty often brings an incentive for the manufacturer not to have to supply 20 sets of bearings per frame, so they design and spec better.
Frames with bearings in linkages are my preference provided they are quality - not much point having bearings in linkages if the pivot axle is wearing a groove in your frame. In my 4 years on an Arrival I have replaced one set of bearings and ridden a lot in loads of conditions.
Bearing quality, bearing seat tolerance, and frame alignment are important. I reckon that good design amplifies the effect of good grease and maintenance, whereas if the frame quality is poor not much helps.
Well, they would shift in the link literally every ride. If I didn't take time to press them back, they wore out fast. I didn't keep track of how fast they wore down, but it was more than twice a year. Stock link and Cascade link. Cascade tried to help by measuring their tightest bore link and sent me that, and even with retaining compound, the bearings would still move. Yoke driven shock designs are bad, mmmk.
I think bearing longevity and ease of replacement are worth caring about, and I wish it was something more manufacturers/brands emphasized. Alignment, tolerances, accessibility, etc. rarely show up in bike marketing or reviews. IMHO, that's unfortunate. I have to assume that most people are either not replacing their bearings or paying a shop to do it, and thus not taking it into account when making a purchase.
Re: Santa Cruz: their angular contact bearings can run a long time if properly adjusted and maintained. But that's a big if, given how the average rider treats their bike.
On the other side of the spectrum... I've worked on a lot of Giant frames, which usually have just OK to poor tolerances/alignment, and yet rarely seemed to fully kill bearings the way some other brands did. No idea how to explain that.
Personally, I appreciate frames that allow for some degree of preload adjustment on the linkage bearings. It's a less common feature, and probably one that the majority of riders won't care about, but I like having the option. Santa Cruz and Kona are the two brands I can think of that still have this on most models.
Don't get me started on pivot bushings.
Replaced the bearings on my Tyee earlier this week, which I think were the factory acros oned so 4-5 years-ish. Only two sizes which werent hard to find in aftermarket Max options. Two out of 8 had to be pressed out of the carbon frame, god it's so unnerving i hate it
Currently looking at getting a new short travel bike and bearing longevity/ease of replacement is definitely a factor as I ride in mud half of the year and will be buying used, so most warranties are out of the window. Bikes like the Spur and the previous gen Rocky Mountain Element are losing points on that part...
The question is usually what causes the short bearings life? High flex frame designs and those with undersized bearings are some to avoid. If it is water/dirt ingress into bearings then it is a sealing and quality of the bearing issue. Here I have found that replacing the shitty Enduro bearings that come on many frames with something quality from SKS or NTN with better seals is the way to go. On these bearings and also on the Enduro ones you can improve longevity by packing them with waterproof/maritime grease.
I have a problem with the mentality that you can frequently press in new bearings. Over time, the bearing seat in the frame will get widened and you get less and less of a good fit, creating play or the need for higher pivot bolt torque to keep it play free.
I think Raaw frames are exemplary when it comes to bearings:
Anecdotally, I've had three Raaw frames and never had a single bearing issue.
@Goupil I’d love to see detail on the new Reya bearing arrangement, could be a contender.
I think Kavenz are exemplary when it comes to bearings:
My GF is on a Slash 2017 that she refuses to part ways with and the sourcing of bearings there are awful. One of the reasons why i went with the Kavenz frame when it came out in 2020.
Did the pivot bearings on my Hightower V2 this winter. Taking my time it was about two hours. Punching them out is easy, and a bearing press helps to not jack anything up. With 3 SC bikes in our house the free bearings are nice.
Ever since I started removing the outer bearing seal, whichever one is accessible after removing the axle, and packing as much grease in as possible and putting the seal back on, I've had bearing last for ages. My forbidden dreadnought is on Whistler season #4 and they all still feel new. Off the shelf bearings are mostly designed to spin at high rpms so theres only a minimal about of grease in them. Pack them full of grease and there's nowhere for water to get in and sit, especially on bearings that only rotate a tiny amount.
I 100% don't advocate this method, but I tend to find that using a drill (press the chuck into the inner race) to spin up a frame bearing that feels a little rough can work wonders and make it feel much smother. I normally pop the seals and flush out the old grease and renew once I've done that. Helps me extend the life of the bearings, I don't think they enjoy the small repetitive movement in pivots and spinning them up seems to help.
This is the way. I have yet to replace a single bearing in my SC frames as I clean and regrease them 3-4 times a year. After thousands of miles under my fat ass, they still do fine.
Is that the Ali express press?
Nicolai/Geometron
My G1 is on its second set of frame bearings, clocked in at coming up to 950,000ft of descending. Doesn’t get an easy life as it’s mainly on uplifts/chairlifts and sees a pressure washer all to frequently.
On the flipside, the SC Vala I have is terrible, 450000ft of descending (in 2000 miles) and it’s on bearing set 3. Mix of bearing failures from simply wearing them out and dirt ingress. Bike never seees a pressure washer, just a bucket and rinse down. No additional sealing, just a bearing cap that fits okish. Free bearings are nice, but it’s a pain in the ass to keep doing it so often
It came from eBay, but I’m sure they are all super similar.
Nice one @Sir HC - I think a lot of people forget frames that are ki d to bearings are kind to riders, and they definitely work better with less friction and bind up that others.
Is it also safe to assume that e-mopeds have a bit different maintenance issues than MTBs? And I am not talking just about motors or teethy bits.
I don't know about e-mopeds, but E-mtbs do need more maintenance then trad bikes - bearings don't seem to be much worse, but suspension gets worked harder and drivetrains get thoroughly abused.
It's something that is pretty huge for me - the type of bearings, the way they are arranged in the frame (eg widely spaced and using double shear bolts) and how easy they are to replace. A lot of frames use massively undersized bearings so I would look for at least 69XX or 60XX sized bearings in all the pivots.
Specialized mostly uses 6800/1/2 in their pivots, and even though they double them up at the main pivot but they are still terrible. Trek uses weirdly sized, super expensive bearings that are also awful.
Anything with a trunnion or yoke will put more stress on the bearings and if they are even slightly worn will accelerate wear on the shock. Some bikes manage OK but bear it in mind! I always found santa cruz really good to work on and in recent years used properly sized bearings so they tick the most boxes. I generally found Transition pretty good but their Trunnion mounts still manage to wreak havoc on shocks, so you won't want to let those bearings go too long
Some bikes break all those rules and still ride well, but I would either learn to replace them yourself or budget paying someone to do them at least once a year. If you do want to DIY - make sure there is a good manual, buy a torque wrench! And maybe practise on your current bike or an old one that isn't usefull any more. The only thing worse than neglecting maintenance is doing maintenance badly!
Norco engineer their pivots well - large sizes, double shear bolts (capturing the bearing on both sides so the bolt isn't flexing in use, to put it simply) so they last a really long time
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