Nerding out on Brakes shall we? Not another tech deraliment

Speaking personally, I've never felt that my Dominions required a lot of force at the lever to get enough braking force, it's been the opposite in fact. I've ridden them at a lot of weights too, from 165ish lbs all the way up to 220 lbs, and on bikes weighing 32 lbs to 40 lbs on 203mm rotors, and they've been reliably powerful for how much force I put into the lever. As a point of comparison, I've spent a good amount of time on Code Stealth silvers, and those brakes required a lot more force at the lever to get the same stopping power as the Dominions. Not sure where the "Dominions have a light stroke but take a lot of force to get enough power out" is coming from to be honest. 

Dominions are for sure the most powerful brakes with the lighest lever action I've used, I've never heard anyone saying they need a lot of force to get the power either.
 
On the other end of the spectrum you have the Formula Cura 4 which requires a lot of lever pulling to get any decent braking force - one of the most disappointing brakes I've used for sure.

You are trying to apply subjective feelings to objectively measured numbers. That is questionable logic imo. We are comparing A/B/C/X brakes here, if one is measurably easier to pull, it is a FACT. I don't know what is there to discuss. Where is your threshold for "light" lever action is up to you, I don't think any reviewer is interesting in addressing that nor can anyone else other than you do so.

This statement "Dominions have a light stroke but take a lot of force to get enough power out" sounds like a pad or rotor issue to me. I have tested the Dominions extensively against many other high-performance brakes, and while they fall just short of something like a Maven or a Hope EVO GR4, I still put them firmly in the "powerful brakes" category. They do have that superlight action as you initiate the brake, they then tend to bite pretty good on first contact and keep building from there. When compared to the absolutely effortless way the Mavens deliver their max power, sure, the Dominions require a bit more lever force, but definitely not to the point of "taking a lot of force to get enough power out." My experience covers a couple of different Hayes compounds BTW.

Found where it came from, I actually wrote it and got the info from a local rider who compared Dominions to Code RSCs. Page 54 apparently (asking for a friend situation). Then @Shinook more or less confirmed this: "I would flat out avoid Dominions. They aren't bad brakes but they are going to require a fair amount of lever force once the pads engage, the freestroke is light but the buildup in pressure required is fairly significant if you have problems."

Dunno, to me, physics wise, it's kinda clear. If you have a cam in the system, it's likely the free stroke lever pull will be stiff (moving the piston a lot), but you will get a lot of power, relatively, from the brake. It will build up quickly though. If you want a light lever pull, you have to run it more linearly and sacrifice ultimate power. Or pad gap. There's only so much finger stroke and force, so you're limited there.

Unless a light lever pull comes from a different place (maybe smoother bores or less pressure on the seals), that's also an option.

But let's stop beating this dead horse, apparently I'm all kinds of wrong.

My guy, you are responding to something that I have not said. My only contribution to this conversation was “grip strength is strongly correlated with body size”. Go touch some grass.

Anyone know of an alternate Maven pad spacer (assuming 3d printed) that's sized for 2.3mm thick rotors?  I like the SRAM pad spacer because it helps ensure even piston advancement/alignment after a bleed, but if you try to run 2.3mm thick rotors after using it, there's not enough clearance.  My work-around so far has been to use the stock pad spacer to advance & center the pistons, then push them back with the thicker edge, then re-advance them over the rotor.

One complaint  I have that applies to so many manufacturers is about rotors. Surely, it is possible to design floating rotors with replaceable brake tracks? 

The waste and cost of throwing out really nice, expensive carriers when a brake track wears really annoys me.  I get the critical nature of the rotor / carrier connection, but that’s solveable, surely?

Surely Galfer, Hope, Intend, or someone else could pull this off really quickly…

We live in a time where steerers are replaced. So even if it required tooling, that would pay for itself fast if a shop offered the service.

In my experience this is completely backwards. 

I replaced Code RSC brakes (which replaced XT 4 piston) with Dominions. The Dominions require noticably less lever force to stop, by a substantial margin. 

Iceman, have you written about your experience on the Hope GR4? I'd be curious to read it if so 🙂

I kind of state the following in my opinion on the Dominions. I really don't think a light dead stroke matters as much as some people think. Since we don't spend most of our time in the dead stroke area but rather the bite point. The bite point tends to lead to brake fatigue in my experience and you can get just as much fatigue on a Dominion as any other brake. This is why a GR4 interests me...a lot. 

I have indeed: https://www.vitalmtb.com/product/guide/hydraulic-disc-brakes/hope-technology/evo-gr4-69746#product-reviews-683186. 

When I reviewed the Dominions for a mag back when they first came out, I discussed the design goals with Hayes themselves. They said that every aspect of the brake was designed to minimise resistance in the system while maximising stiffness. This includes seals, springs, and a larger ID for the hose than normal. This is the main reason that the Dominions are easy to pull. The linear lever with very little pad retraction is the other reason - the pads sit very close to the rotors. There was no sacrifice to leverage ratio or relative size of pistons that would affect the power.

Everyone that's concerned only about arm pump when talking about heavy/light levers is missing the forest for the trees. The amount of feel and control is increased also. On really wet slippery rides I have a distinct, obvious, glaring advantage compared to my friends on other brakes when modulating brakes to maintain grip. It's not a small effect. And that's while having more power than they do because they're all on either Shimano or code RSCs.

I threw rocks at a hornets nest in the replies. Anyway, I chose Hope EVO GR4s. 

Ah yes, the Lever Blade-gate scandal 🤣

I was waiting on some GRs when the option for the TR the next day came up. There's so much power on hand I'm glad I didn't go for the GR. Sharing the pad with the current V4 (which I have on a different bike) and they feel stronger than the V4. I ended up dropping a rotor size front and rear (220/200 > 200/180). They've been incredibly solid after nearly 30,000m descending, it's hard to think of an improvement (except for replaceable rotor brake tracks...).