The Bikeconomics (Mega)Thread

4/30/2026 3:31pm
Sorry to be off topic in the DJI thread, but this new Raaw has me curious about their distribution. I see a few in North America...

Sorry to be off topic in the DJI thread, but this new Raaw has me curious about their distribution. I see a few in North America and they are almost universally loved. I bet they could have an even bigger presence here if shipping them here wasn't such a pain in the ass.

Is there a reason they don't have North American distribution beyond the normal Cheeto tariff uncertainty? Realistically would it be a viable option for a brand of their size to ship some of their frames directly to North America? I am not saying set up an in house warehouse but there has to be someone sending and warehousing bikes on that route that they could glom onto in a way that is viable to expand their presence here. I assume they are (rightfully) hesitant to expose themselves to the growing pains other brands have experienced since Covid.

I'm going to guess money... When you say a company of their size, how big are they? On the other hand, with a blank check and a...

I'm going to guess money... When you say a company of their size, how big are they? 

On the other hand, with a blank check and a commitment to moving product,  there might be an opportunity for you..

I would say they are pretty boutique. They don't even have an e bike. I'd bet they're bottom 15% of units moved by brands not invited to MADE. 

2
Primoz
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4/30/2026 11:51pm Edited Date/Time 4/30/2026 11:53pm
lewzz10 wrote:

MGU is the next logical step for them, you'd have to think it was coming.

TEAMROBOT wrote:
The biggest downsides of MGU are cost and drag. Avinox/Amflow seem to be in a great position to overcome both of those problems. Their scale, rapid...

The biggest downsides of MGU are cost and drag. Avinox/Amflow seem to be in a great position to overcome both of those problems. Their scale, rapid development process, subsidized Capex, and direct-to-customer model will all help keep costs down for the customer. On the drag side of the equation, 1500 watts and 800% assist means they have a few extra watts to burn compared to a human powered MGU or one of their ebike competitors.

This is probably a question for another thread, but I'm wondering if meshing gears have a relatively fixed amount of drag at various levels of input power (sprinting vs. soft pedaling), or whether the drag spikes hard when power goes up. I remember Hammerschmidt was terrible for sprinting, and I know that's one of the arguments for belts vs. chains (chains have exponentially increased drag at higher input watts whereas belts are more linear). That's important for Amflow/Avinox, because if an MGU with meshing gears produces 10x more drag when you double power, it will be hard to make that viable for a 1500 watt ebike. On the other hand, I'm certain the engineers in Shenzhen are smarter than me.

I forgot Pinion uses the name Motor-Gearbox-Unit, here I am thinking everyone was talking about Motor-GENERATOR- Units 😅I would love to see someone make a crack...

I forgot Pinion uses the name Motor-Gearbox-Unit, here I am thinking everyone was talking about Motor-GENERATOR- Units 😅

I would love to see someone make a crack at harvesting energy from braking or the suspension - I figure it could be a small equaliser for heavier riders who would normally have much less battery range available

 

And @jeff.brines maybe we do need an Avinox thread, I was reading through all this and thought it was the ebike thread.....😬

Not worth it. Not on a bicycle. Maybe on a cargo/commuter bike, for pleasure mountain bikes the problems are far greater than the benefits it would bring. 

1
Teknik
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FI
5/1/2026 3:01am

The 8-hour training actually makes perfect sense if you think about it. If you’re going to force a 12-year-old to commute electrically assisted/throttled in a 6-inch painted gutter next to 5,000lb distracted SUVs going 50mph, they probably need Stroad-warrior level tactical training.

Why build a protected bike path for $1M when you can just blame the kids for not having a Ebike Safety Certificate while they dodge F-150s?

9
mickey
Posts
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Location
Roanoke, VA US
5/1/2026 4:36am
Teknik wrote:
The 8-hour training actually makes perfect sense if you think about it. If you’re going to force a 12-year-old to commute electrically assisted/throttled in a 6-inch...

The 8-hour training actually makes perfect sense if you think about it. If you’re going to force a 12-year-old to commute electrically assisted/throttled in a 6-inch painted gutter next to 5,000lb distracted SUVs going 50mph, they probably need Stroad-warrior level tactical training.

Why build a protected bike path for $1M when you can just blame the kids for not having a Ebike Safety Certificate while they dodge F-150s?

You are not wrong.

If People For Bikes spent 1/4 as much advocating for safe routes to school as they did lobbying for Ebike access in skeptical communities, the shrinking American bicycle market might be expanding.  Instead we seem laser focused on selling stuff to the same 10% of the population over and over again, each time with an extra battery or two.  

 

14
5/1/2026 5:07am
Sorry to be off topic in the DJI thread, but this new Raaw has me curious about their distribution. I see a few in North America...

Sorry to be off topic in the DJI thread, but this new Raaw has me curious about their distribution. I see a few in North America and they are almost universally loved. I bet they could have an even bigger presence here if shipping them here wasn't such a pain in the ass.

Is there a reason they don't have North American distribution beyond the normal Cheeto tariff uncertainty? Realistically would it be a viable option for a brand of their size to ship some of their frames directly to North America? I am not saying set up an in house warehouse but there has to be someone sending and warehousing bikes on that route that they could glom onto in a way that is viable to expand their presence here. I assume they are (rightfully) hesitant to expose themselves to the growing pains other brands have experienced since Covid.

I'm going to guess money... When you say a company of their size, how big are they? On the other hand, with a blank check and a...

I'm going to guess money... When you say a company of their size, how big are they? 

On the other hand, with a blank check and a commitment to moving product,  there might be an opportunity for you..

I would say they are pretty boutique. They don't even have an e bike. I'd bet they're bottom 15% of units moved by brands not invited...

I would say they are pretty boutique. They don't even have an e bike. I'd bet they're bottom 15% of units moved by brands not invited to MADE. 

Exactly... So, I would guess that the costs of setting up something here doesn't justify the benefits to the company.. Yes, I wouldn't mind a Madonna and a Yella if a DH bike  was in the cards for me...

2
5/1/2026 11:41am
I'm going to guess money... When you say a company of their size, how big are they? On the other hand, with a blank check and a...

I'm going to guess money... When you say a company of their size, how big are they? 

On the other hand, with a blank check and a commitment to moving product,  there might be an opportunity for you..

I would say they are pretty boutique. They don't even have an e bike. I'd bet they're bottom 15% of units moved by brands not invited...

I would say they are pretty boutique. They don't even have an e bike. I'd bet they're bottom 15% of units moved by brands not invited to MADE. 

Exactly... So, I would guess that the costs of setting up something here doesn't justify the benefits to the company.. Yes, I wouldn't mind a Madonna...

Exactly... So, I would guess that the costs of setting up something here doesn't justify the benefits to the company.. Yes, I wouldn't mind a Madonna and a Yella if a DH bike  was in the cards for me...

My point is even at that size they could likely make it worth their while expanding here as they are popular. Or at least that is my hypothesis and I want to hear what people familiar with distribution think.

5/1/2026 6:09pm
Teknik wrote:
The 8-hour training actually makes perfect sense if you think about it. If you’re going to force a 12-year-old to commute electrically assisted/throttled in a 6-inch...

The 8-hour training actually makes perfect sense if you think about it. If you’re going to force a 12-year-old to commute electrically assisted/throttled in a 6-inch painted gutter next to 5,000lb distracted SUVs going 50mph, they probably need Stroad-warrior level tactical training.

Why build a protected bike path for $1M when you can just blame the kids for not having a Ebike Safety Certificate while they dodge F-150s?

mickey wrote:
You are not wrong.If People For Bikes spent 1/4 as much advocating for safe routes to school as they did lobbying for Ebike access in skeptical...

You are not wrong.

If People For Bikes spent 1/4 as much advocating for safe routes to school as they did lobbying for Ebike access in skeptical communities, the shrinking American bicycle market might be expanding.  Instead we seem laser focused on selling stuff to the same 10% of the population over and over again, each time with an extra battery or two.  

 

This 1000%.  I'm sure a lot of you know this, but a crucial piece of information is that "People for Bikes" is only "people" in the Mitt Romney sense of the word.  It's a lobbying organization for bike companies, which explains a lot of the ebike legislation that has been passed in many states.

The other old grumpy people will get this reference, which is what that moniker for an industry lobbying group always makes me think of.

Thank You for Smoking (2005) – The Goods: Film Reviews

 

2
Digit Bikes
Posts
181
Joined
9/22/2021
Location
Irvine, CA US
1 day ago Edited Date/Time 14 hours ago

Earlier this year I went to People For Bikes’ Bicycle Leadership Conference. I’m not a PFB member, I don’t feel like a shill for them, but I have an in person experience which seems relevant to this:

I learned that they feel that e-motos pose an urgent threat to existing routes to schools, etc. They’re still supporting new routes, but are focused on supporting existing routes - because there’s a risk that reaction to reckless e-moto users could jeopardize all bicycle access to bike paths. Undoing PFB’s previous efforts. 

PFB seemed eager to have e-motos regulated as motorcycles, and the motorcycle industry equivalent of PFB who were in attendance seemed eager to own that segment and to require (sell) insurance and DOT helmets.

A senator in attendance said there are federal, state and local bills under consideration already, apparently with bipartisan support.

All wanted e-motos to be seen as something other than a bicycle. They’re appealing to the Associated Press to encourage the term e-moto for anything that doesn’t comply 100% with class 1,2,3. And they’re working toward clarified federal definitions of the classes.

I’m sure PFB have much better info available on their website. I don’t have a dog in the fight so I might not have ingested every detail.

Edit: Recently, a few parents have been sued for reckless endangerment of their kids for allowing them e-motos. I’m not sure if it’s related, but I suspect that it might be. 

9
jazza_wil
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Location
whistler, BC CA
1 day ago

Yt Canada back in action 

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