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Tough decisions for sure.
If the power, looks & the new hotness are priorities, you better wait.
I decided I preferred the consistency, known reliability, guaranteed low noise, tuning philosophy, etc. of the Bosch so that's what I ordered (Wild) in spite of knowing for a fact that the Avinox version is on the way.
People always forget that they compare apples to oranges with the avinox hype train. A quickly removable battery design will always be heavier and clunkier looking than a non removable one.
170mm for the e-dreadnought is the word on the street.
Potentially uses the druid e front triangle, so existing druid e owners may be able to convert if forbidden makes those parts available.
I feel the Avinox is a bit over hyped, and the power is irrelevant for where I live and the single-track climbs. But they do look great. I would buy one, but it's not a priority. Heck I tried to buy the Rogue but was denied, but in the end I'm glad.
There is a Utube video floating around (Utube and The Onion is where I obtain all of my news from!) that claims that an online survey indicates approximately 25% of e-bike motors are replaced under the 2-year manufacturer's warranty. It's certainly higher than that over the lifetime of an e-bike. Avinox was too new to be included as one of the options in the survey so it's just an average.
Now when you combine that average failure rate with significant reports of Avinox motors waiting on parts, some going on months, in the UK and other places, well that's just more than I want to deal with; having my primary entertainment down for possibly months at a time. Also add in DJI's history of abandoning previous generation product support in the drone market.
So, it really came down to Avinox looks, that needs a bash guard which sort of negates the looks advantage, and extreme power that I'd play with 2x per year by myself on a dirt road, over the consistency, bike availability, good dealer support and a decent discount on a Bosch that I can have much quicker. My CXR Wild shows up next month.
For 170mm or more: Crestline, teewing flux, and the announced today thomus: https://bikes.thoemus.ch/en/oberrider
Not sure why I'm bothering to answer, we are all the same people from emtb forums having the same conversation as over there anyway 🤣
If an e-dreadnought goes the way of the Druid then 180/170 and 170/160 is a safe bet. Dual crown compatible? 👀
I hope so.
Release at sea otter I think.
Atherton is also confirmed. Pretty sure it's the M2 motor based on the fact they haven't released any actual pictures of the bike.
Mostly agree with everything here. If Bosch makes a motor that doesn't look like a Nissan Rogue flipped upside down then we really can have it all. Reliable, repairable, quiet, efficient, more solid company, and most importantly not engaged in the D measuring contest of power that Spesh and DJI are engaged in.
DJI may always have an edge when it comes to batteries though. I'm on the Avinox hype train because of the battery + common sense features like fast charge, USB-C charging port, battery health (maybe Bosch does this?)
Crestline would like a word.
i rather the 12a charger than a door.
i'm currently planning my own version of the haute route from verbier through most of the valais without touching the rhone valley once this summer. by relying to recharge with the quick charger during lunch to 80% to do > 3000m of climbing/day. all with just a 16l backpack. wouldn't be possible with a bosch as the battery is way bigger and you'd need a 2nd charger to get both back to 100% during the night as they still are at 4a charging rate max. just another feature the chinese got them by the balls atm
He somehow created a removable battery, cat 5, dual crown, Pro DH caliber mtb/emtb that can be build fully stout for not much more than 51lbs with a 800w battery.
That's the XR version right? That's exactly the build spec I want to pick up! What size are you on? Mine will be a XL. Re geometry: Can confirm. I rode the older version, bit an alloy rental. Every owner of a Crafty older or newer generation is telling the same story. The geometry is indeed very special. Do you have the 600 or 800Wh battery?
I could do 2500m of climbing with my e8000 504wh battery. I would never want to carry a battery or a charger in a backpack.
I couldn't find a instruction for the Crestline dji battery removal but the bosch version doesn't look like it's that quick:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rOULgMhgebI&pp=ygUdQ3Jlc3RsaW5lIGRqaSBiYXR0ZXJ5IHJlbW92YWw%3D
The principle is similar to the Gen 3 levo but with that you just have one bolt to fiddle with.
DJI is mostly similar, with a 800w battery you have to remove the display on the top tube to reach the batter mount screw. Possible to do trail side, not preferable in my book.
Yeah that's not what a quickly removable battery means. I'm talking about taking it out in seconds.
Yes, XR.
That's a size large. I am 6' (183cm) with long legs and arms. It is a hair too big, a m/l would have been ideal, but the price was too good to walk past.
I have a 600wh and a 800wh battery, but almost always ride it with the 600wh. 49.5 pounds (22.5kg) with the 600wh.
The geo is great, good f/r balance, but it's the rear suspension that's a standout on the '25+ bikes. I'd go out on a limb and say it's the best suspension kinematic out of the 40-50 enduro bikes I've tried/owned over the last four years. This thing outruns my coil/coil dreadnought v2 pretty much everywhere, even on fast tech at the bike park.
Good intentions here, but how is that even possible? A 150mm 22.5 kg ebike that has better rear suspension performance compared to 40-50 bikes? Either most of the other bikes were not set properly suspensionwise or all of the 50 bikes were >4kg lighter, so maybe the extra weight gives better rear suspension performance (i wouldn't say so, because then everyone should get 4kg fatter and instantly upgrade their suspension not spending a single penny (except for the extra food)
) or mondraker found a unicorn out of all the full explored suspension platforms and kinematics, quite improbable.
Yeah. I'd say that's because no one said it was quick. But it is possible vs impossible, the actual important fact.
Ride one and get back to me.
It's well known that e-bikes do indeed make suspension work better. Sprung vs un-sprung mass, in the bike. Rider weight isn't the same thing unfortunately.
The other bikes were all well sorted, and generally above average as far as parts quality. I'm including other e-bikes of course, but also stuff like the dreadnought v2, nomad 6, arrival 170, claymore, slash 6, giga 290, mega 290, etc.
It's bonkers what this thing is doing with 150mm of travel, feels like 170+mm. It doesn't wall up at the end of stroke, it feels super supple near full droop (weight of the e helps there), and it doesn't bottom harshly off larger drops or overshoots.
I'd love an acoustic version of it. Sadly mondraker does not have a parallel of it's geo with no power.
Battery and motor weight have almost the same effect on downhill rear suspension performance as rider body weight. All of the aforementioned are sprung weight.
What you describe seems to be associated with the leverage curve and maybe the tune of the shock.
All in all, it's great to have a bike that feels that good!
I doubt @ntm95 is interested in gaining 10 lbs instead of riding an ebike lol. Regardless, is it accurate to treat rider weight as purely sprung? Your body is full of dampers and springs that move independently from one another. Very different from a solid battery in your downtube that’s always going the same direction with the same natural frequency.
I'd disagree with that.
Heavier vs lighter rider is all in the damping tune and ride frequency (rate). Within reason, there is a tipping point sub 130 pounds where seal drag and other frictions become significant to the light rider.
Heavier vs lighter bike (in the bb area) effects primarily the base sprung/unsprung mass ratio. This manifests on things like unsupported rough, fast, corners. The bike is less dependent on solely the riders weight and input to keep traction and appropriate weight distribution. And I suspect there's something to having more suspended mass that filters higher frequency stuff better. Perhaps also a weight distribution component, with the batteries f/r position. There's a reason most wc bikes are running additional mass, and it's not because the riders are too light.
But that's common to all e-bikes. The crafty's rear end does have some kind of hocus pocus going on.
"Almost" the same effect i wrote. And i marked that it applies only for downhill rear suspension performance, not overall bike performance.
Get a bike with 22kg weight and plow through some roots, then get 4 kg fatter (being in normal bmi) and ride the same bike (rear suspension correctly set) just 4kg lighter. Doubt you would tell a difference that significant. I specify it again, plow through some roots/rocks downhill and just seek for rear suspension differences.
It's quite improbable that mondraker adding 4kg in a frame, found the holy grail of suspension performance. My guess is leverage curve, shock tune and personal preference.
As far as pros are concerned, they try to gain a decisecond. My guess is the weight added in the bottom area of the bike is for extra speed, better stability and better balancing of the bike. Not for better rear suspension performance. But even if there is a slight gain there, it's not something that makes the bike like a magic carpet.
I feel like the additional weight is kinda like damping. As in in it will make a bike even with entry level dampers feel more calm. But there is also a downside the heavier a bike gets: it tends to feel too planted/dead or hard to get off the ground. A heavier bike will also push you more when you brake or go into steep sections. The bigger factor is still suspension (setup) and tires for ride feel, then weight (distribution).
I don’t know what to say, it is pretty common knowledge that e-bike suspension just tends to work better. There are many brands out there that use very similar geo and kinematics in their acoustic and e versions of a bike.
It’s not enough of a difference to be an actual negative to an acoustic bike, but the difference is there.
The crafty gets a little help from that, but it really is just a very good kinematic. Worth trying one out if you haven’t.
7500ft with 504Wh with the e8000? That’s gnarly.
Levo R would get tons of run on the central coast.
It was during covid lockdown before I had the ability to charge with my camper van and campsites were closed. So I had to stretch the battery over a weekend and regulated the motor down to Eco 25 or 20 for the most part (can't remember exactly).
So it was on light emtb level assistance and I'm a light rider.
I also did 6300 feet with my 430 wh battery on FAZUA 60 Motor
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