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Who will the wildcards be? I wonder if they skip Goodman SantaCruz and Rogue Racing (secondary teams for a brand, or not the premier team for a frame sponsor) to give them to Yeti and Gwin (top level teams for frame sponsors)? Here's where we're at with all the UCI website team total points from finals. I went through every team to final all the riders that have points, although it looks like a couple of the minor teams might be folding or moving to continental such as Propain, Evolve, Meekboyz etc.
Should Norco drop about 160 points? The difference between Minnaar and Kuhn? If Minnaar retires/has retired he should not really be allowed to use his points? Although maybe he has not retired anymore 😁
Long post that was intended to be a short post but then I got to picking it apart and teasing it out further. Sorry!
I'm not conviced "should" is a word in the UCI/WBD vocabulary.
A quick reframing of the whole idea (that I don't necessarily agree with but I could see as being completely within the scope of how the UCI could be looking at it):
Is Gwin any less retired than Minnaar? Who raced more last year and who seems to be more publicly active in DH right now? How about Richie Rude? RR used to ride downhill, stopped for a long time, and rode a couple races last year but has skipped almost every race for the past however-many years. Minnaar has been riding WC DH essentially nonstop since '97 and said he's done but hasn't yet skipped any races (really only because he hasn't had the opportunity to do so). Who is more retired, Gwin or Dak? Dakota is potentially out for the early part of the season but Gwin could race the next Continental race and be earning points for his team. I'm going hyperbolic to illustrate the point. Dak isn't retired (I think his best days - including days on the top step of the podium - are ahead of him) and carries points. Gwin isn't retired and carries points. Richie isn't retired and carries points. Greg is "retired" but hasn't demonstrated that retirement any more or less than any of those other riders have and also carries points. Does UCI have an official rule on "retirement" and when those points are forfeited?
Do I think any of that "should" be the way things are looked at? No. But I understand how they could be. If I were a team with a manager/director/non-riding member who was holding onto some points from last year, I'd have looked at that during the silly season, gotten clarification from UCI as to how those points are handled, and if they stay with the rider no matter their status as active or retired I'd look at it as an opportunity to take a chance on an unknown rider knowing that the points are already in the bag from the "legacy" rider.
This will probably be the only year any of that matters because after this year it looks like the points stay with the team rather than the riders...but we also don't know a lot about how the points will move (if they move at all) as riders move to different teams or how teams hold points as they go through waves of better/worse performance year-on-year. It would be a wild twist to let riders keep half the points they accumulate and teams keep the other half. Riders would be a little more valuable to teams trying to "trade up" and a team isn't completely detached from their efforts to keep their best riders (because they lose something if they lose the rider) but a smaller team losing a rider isn't punished as badly if a big-budget team swoops in and takes a rider at the end of their contract.
And we haven't even talked about wildcard teams yet: a team status opportunity a mafia boss with a specialty in corrupting officials could only dream about...but is also set up to give the UCI any reason at all to be a completely wholesome and benevolent by granting season-long spots to fan faves and feel-good stories.
The cynical part of me sees wildcard status as an opportunity to fill pockets while the hopeful part of me sees wildcard status as an opportunity to fill hearts. The practical part of me isn't hopeful on this matter.
(i)f I were a team with a manager/director/non-riding member who was holding onto some points from last year, I'd have looked at that during the silly season
Since this snippet of your rambling post literally makes zero-sense, your point drifts off into the ether. Kudos on choice of the word 'Mafia'. Kudos.
Sorry, missed the word "running." Lots of copy/paste rearranging to make my stuff make a little more sense. I must have missed it in a copy/paste frenzy.
I'm not saying "this is what's happening" I'm saying "this is the lengths this could be stretched to."
Yep, I used "mafia" in one phrase to illustrate an opportunity for corruption and then I used "wholesome and benevolent" in the next to illustrate an opportunity for really embracing DH fans. I'm talking about possibilities not throwing accusations. I'm not sure I understand your criticism. Perhaps I'm too stupid to understand and you could explain it to me.
AFAIK it was never confirmed he was signed to GasGas. He has a few photos and the rumor mill picked it up. He is/was probably in talks with them though.
This team ranking is absolute BS. It's Resulting in so much uncertainty, riders losing contracts and brands pulling the plug. All it's done is added to an already bad climate within the bike industry. If they don't want privateers fair enough, but just say that.
Has the number actually reduced with national jerseys available! Time will tell. The UCI and Warner bros could have just stated that only one team per bike frame manufacturer (ie Factory teams only) can enter World Cups. Yeah they would loss a Commercal team and Santa Cruz team but that would have opened the doors to Cube, Forbidden, KS, Crestline, Transition. It would have been clear as day, teams and rider would have been in a better place to get sponsors knowing they had a place at the world cups at the time of contract signing and the door would be open for other factory teams to enter in the future Ari for example.
Minnaar officially announced his retirement in 2024. Had a farewell party in Andorra after his self declared last ever World Champs and did an on stage farewell thing on MSA after the last WC race that I saw in some YouTube piece. The latest Norco press release has him listed as team performance manager or something. He's retired.
Dakota is injured.
Gwin is an active rider, who has not announced retirement.
So I don't get your ramble
The issue is ethical not semantics
The sport needs to move away from endemic only sponsors etc.. so one team per frame brand just makes no sense. Why stop a team or brand who want to run a development and a-team program?
While i see your point, I think he's not saying that it would be better for money in the sport, he's saying it would result in a healthier field and offseason, specifically for this current year.
I do agree that having more teams riding different bikes is generally a better thing for the sport. it provides interesting discussion about what bike is better, and that engagement leads to better viewership, and if the paddock had less teams on the same bike it does create space for other brands to get in on the action.
It should be simple..WBD is TRYING to make DH would cup like F1. BUT they won't say that. If your team is on top of points, Your welcome. If your team is close to that then have a go at it and let's see how we feel. IF your team is one of interest to WBD to bring views your in too as a wildcard. I don't agree with it but what they are missing is how many of us are willing to pay for the kid in jeans showing up and going top 30. It SUCKS but it is what it is. NOBODY makes money off of DH racing..Except top 15 pros. WBD included.
Anyone want to drop the link to the UCI rider list with rankings and teams for 2025. Can’t find it for the life of me.
https://www.uci.org/discipline/mountain-bike/4LArSj7CKcytMrGEDtKwkb?tab…
Direct link to the DH riders...
https://dataride.uci.ch/iframe/RankingDetails/149?disciplineId=7&groupI…
The above link is for the men. Here are the elite women's rankings:
https://dataride.uci.ch/iframe/RankingDetails/156?disciplineId=7&groupI…
The common thread in all of this is the name you keep dropping, and the one that has disappeared from our lexicon: WBD and UCI.
WBD is a for profit organization, they're going to try to make profit from things they spend money on.
The problem is that the UCI sold DHMTB broadcast rights during a bubble as a money maker to WBD, but in reality, it was already a stone with not a lot of blood (profit) left to be squeezed from it, and certainly not the legs to become some F1 scale thing (and if you've watched much Drive to Survive you know for the health of the sport, we really don't want it to become F1 anyway.)
The UCI is supposed to keep the best interests of the sport first in mind, but they've been so spoiled by the money they make from road cycling, that they've treat any part of the sport that doesn't make that kind of money with resentment. they saw a chance to finally make money on MTB (outside of the Olympics) and jumped on it, because as they've proven for the entire time MTB racing has been under their purview, they resent having to deal with it. That's why so much of this is at WBD's discretion as far as organizing and policies, because the UCI saw an opportunity to make organizing it someone else's problem, and get a flat payout for it, without technically letting it out of their overall control, because the only thing they hate more than dealing with MTB is when somebody other than them tries to organize it. I mean think about it, can you imagine the NFL letting FOX dictate major rule changes?
It's relevant to point out how all of the communication about DHMTB now comes from either Chris Ball or WBD. The greater UCI doesn't comment on it, they don't care, they've finally gotten their way of ignoring it but still keeping anybody else from making it better. If something like the Hardline series really does take off, i expect a repeat of their previous "you'll be banned from World Cups if you participate in non-UCI events" the same way they did with gravel racing, enduro racing, and way back when, 24hr racing. I suspect the continental series are an attempt to prevent any alternate series from gaining traction more than they are about actually making the sport better.
Oh, I 100% agree with you. Like I said in my "ramble," I don't necessarily agree with this line of thinking but I could see UCI looking at it that way. The point of my ramble, I guess, was to say that there are multiple ways of mentally framing this situation and the UCI seems to be fine playing things a little loosey goosey with their interpretations of their own rules.
...but now to dig in to that thought further:
Did UCI officially retire him? Seems not...or at least it seems like they don't yet (that I've seen anyway) have an official "retired" status for a rider. He still has points that it looks he's contributing to the team. They must see him as a valid rider just like they see Gwin - who has fewer points, is outside the top 50, and currently is not on a top 15 team - unless they've created a retired rider status that contributes points for the previous season but no longer allows entry into races. I doubt they'd turn him away if he wanted to race, so then I guess he's a rider. So then - if he's a rider - he's contributing points to his team.
All those other ramblings about the other riders was just to say that the UCI could justify Greg's points as much as they could justify any of the other riders' points. He has a track record of racing just like everyone else and he's currently employed by a team that has their riders greenlit into the races. He's "retired" in that he said he's not going to race anymore, got on stage to hand something out, and drank some red wine with people. He's an active rider in the UCI's eyes in that he could race any race at any time (because they wouldn't turn him away) and is contributing points to his team.
I agree with you. He shouldn't be able to ride if he's "retired." Should he contribute points? I'm fine with it (because then the team could secure their status but also take a risk on bringing in an up-and-coming rider) but I'm not on the board of people who decide these things.
I wouldn't call it an ethics issue, but more of an issue of rules/guidelines not being clearly established. At this point - having had no official guidance on an issue like this laid out by UCI - it's ALL semantics. What's the definition of a rider? Someone who is eligible to ride on a team? Could Greg be a rider? He could be as long as he's signed up and has done all the necessary paperwork. So then it seems the UCI has deemed he's a rider who is capable of contributing points to his team.
I'm reminded of this, circa 2021, UCI website.
..final teams for the 2025 season.
Downhill World Cup 2025: Alle Teams & Fahrer für die kommende Saison - MTB-News.de
Wild that they list Greg Minnaar...
26 Teams. So they can all race.
this list is missing a lot of the teams. Team High Country, Future Frameworks, Dunbar Racing, Simplon Trailblazers, Abetone Ancillotti, The Alliance, Asia Union and Lapierre Gravity Collective. So I count about 34 teams registered for DH.
I have a feeling we won't see lapierre this season. The goal of their WC last season was to develop the new spicy, as the previous generation spicys kept snapping. As much as I like the lug and tube protos and belt driven bikes there's something about the twin-shock cannondale and optional high pivot spicy that the pits will be missing. The recent changes make me feel like DH is moving away from innovation and engineering and towards a rider and personality based spectacle, especially now teams can't simply field their new ideas to test them at the best mountain bike race in the world, they'll have to pick up riders and UCI points.
Here's a full team announcement from Canyon, just dropped earlier today:
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New CLLCTV DH riders Marine Cabirou, Henri Kiefer, and Aletha Ostgaard join fan favorites Troy Brosnan and Luca Shaw in the fastest CLLCTV set-up yet
Simplon is an enduro team without an downhill bike
Nonetheless they are registered with the UCI as an official gravity team or whatever they call it.
Enduro, Dh.... probably all looks the same to the roadies controlling the UCI.
Yes, DH and Enduro are both under gravity teams and their name pops up in that list because Tarmo has points from national races and I believe Tristan has some too, just as Moir's name is on there too.
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