MTB Tech Rumors and Innovation

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ERGue
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63
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Sedro Woolley, WA, USA
7/12/2023 3:17pm
sethimus wrote:

i‘m sorry but where was the adult in the room that should have told those annoying people in the background to SHUT THE FUCK UP??????

Ya but Rear Linkage Forks are the future..

3
brash
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AU
7/12/2023 3:28pm
sethimus wrote:

i‘m sorry but where was the adult in the room that should have told those annoying people in the background to SHUT THE FUCK UP??????

ERGue wrote:

Ya but Rear Linkage Forks are the future..

I had to laugh at that one. I also thought my kids were playing with the microwave downstairs but it was the podcast lol.

I met Steve in Queenstown bikepark gondola line in 2019, he gave me a compliment on my smashpot, I was like holy shit it's steve! He had a prototype secus on a Lyrik and I asked "wtf is that thing?"

the smart arse said "it's a counterbalance for the cassette"

Been a father, I appreciated this joke immensely. Nice guy.

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7/12/2023 5:00pm

IMG 1629.jpeg?VersionId=ENs

 IMG 1630.jpeg?VersionId=y07sN9woDGkI

 

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Big Bird
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Oceano, CA, USA
7/12/2023 6:30pm

We've seen titanium, steel and now aluminum. What's next? Magnesium might catch on fire. Printed thermoplastic?

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7/12/2023 7:36pm
Big Bird wrote:

We've seen titanium, steel and now aluminum. What's next? Magnesium might catch on fire. Printed thermoplastic?

See revel rodeo prototype DH bike. I can’t paste the link on my phone right now for some reason Sad  

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TimBud
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GB
7/12/2023 10:28pm

Uh oh, incoming hate for Intense.

How dare they develop a bike during the season. No one else has ever done that, Ever! Silly
Dakotah will have whinge about getting another bike thats lighter again, even though the kinematics are the same

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6
7/13/2023 12:53am
THIRTYone wrote:
Not sure if this has been spotted. Probably not super interesting but still a new bike haha not sure if it’s another catalog bike. But new...

Not sure if this has been spotted. Probably not super interesting but still a new bike haha not sure if it’s another catalog bike. But new vitus dh bike, from joe smiths video FA48CA11-4D4F-4D0E-B1E3-B229DBDEA4A4.jpeg?VersionId=PoCxfY1ls9Y

 A7C4BBE1-BE81-47D2-95E5-770B6C09F924

 

Looks like a Sommet on steroids. Nicer than the current one. Always thought though they’d go the high-pivot route with the Dominer in order to be the only ones offering a high-pivot weapon for low money! Smile

kcy4130
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7/13/2023 6:09am
   

IMG 1629.jpeg?VersionId=ENs

 IMG 1630.jpeg?VersionId=y07sN9woDGkI

 

3d printed alloy is sexy. But this design might lend itself to carbon a bit more (for production version). I know the frames are prototypes still but they're going to great lengths to keep it alloy. Or maybe for production it'll be forged in two halves and they just want to certain about a few last details before they commit to dies. Just seems odd to have some protos CNC'd and then switch to 3d printed. Switching would make for a lot of extra engineering work to do it right. I guess what I'm trying to say is: pick a prototyping method and be a dick about it. 

7
krabo83
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Location
AT
7/13/2023 6:22am

after seeing rockshox posting on IG their history of the boxxer the last couple of weeks i have hunch that the new boxxer and vivid could be out soon during crankworx.

does anyone have substantial info?

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1
7/13/2023 7:49am Edited Date/Time 7/13/2023 7:50am

Yes, it indeed looks like a Sommet on steroids! It was about time they make a new model, but although it looks way better, it’s still a horst-link alu frame, nothing new like a concept, just a refined version of the existing model…

1
7/13/2023 8:37am
Yes, it indeed looks like a Sommet on steroids! It was about time they make a new model, but although it looks way better, it’s still...

Yes, it indeed looks like a Sommet on steroids! It was about time they make a new model, but although it looks way better, it’s still a horst-link alu frame, nothing new like a concept, just a refined version of the existing model…

Pretty big departure from the catalog frame.  The numbers are almost certainly quite different from geo perspective I’d imagine the kinematics are as well.

maybe a certain former vital staff member can spill some beans.

4
rpjn
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Location
GB
7/13/2023 8:46am
sspomer wrote:
vitus DH prototypes and test mules from hardline here https://www.vitalmtb.com/photos/features/prototype-vitus-downhill-bikes-hardline/vitus-downhill-prototype-bike-test-mule-0  

vitus DH prototypes and test mules from hardline here

https://www.vitalmtb.com/photos/features/prototype-vitus-downhill-bikes…

IMG 1732

 

good job they've got the dropper installed for all those pedaly bits at hardline! but im not against a DH bike with a dropper and then a bigger cassette if i was to ever get another again

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kcy4130
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USA
7/13/2023 9:35am

Yeah, the dropper, room for long dropper, and steep sta make it seem like it's a long travel enduro/park/freeride bike that's dual crown compatible. In the same vein as the rocky mountain slayer: a pedal able dh sled. It's good looking. 

1
7/13/2023 11:14am

RE Intense and that boat piece they've been modifying and working on for over a year. All of that to put the shock right there when they can achieve all the same kinematics by just copying the current Demo or Sender. Or even do it like the new Madison Saracen proto. So much work and time trying to make that piece with CNC, drilling it out to make it lighter, now 3D printing it. I appreciate them trying to make something unique, but the Kinematics are achievable with far less faff, time and money. If they keep that design it's going to add unnecessary costs to their production bikes as well. 

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ERGue
Posts
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Location
Sedro Woolley, WA, USA
7/13/2023 11:28am
RE Intense and that boat piece they've been modifying and working on for over a year. All of that to put the shock right there when...

RE Intense and that boat piece they've been modifying and working on for over a year. All of that to put the shock right there when they can achieve all the same kinematics by just copying the current Demo or Sender. Or even do it like the new Madison Saracen proto. So much work and time trying to make that piece with CNC, drilling it out to make it lighter, now 3D printing it. I appreciate them trying to make something unique, but the Kinematics are achievable with far less faff, time and money. If they keep that design it's going to add unnecessary costs to their production bikes as well. 

What about knowledge and they have gained over the last year.  My bet is that their interpretation of how kinematics translates into real world performance has gone up massively. That they could have just copied a demo/sender (but added an idler) and gotten the same results is pretty short sighted imo. Not to mention that suspension kinematics is only part of the equation, what about chassis flex, and geo?

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kcy4130
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USA
7/13/2023 11:36am

Same kinematics? The demo, sender, and saracen are not hp, no idler. Intense is hp and has an idler: Big difference. But I agree their prototyping/development methods don't seem to be conducted in the most efficient or rational manner. 

2
ERGue
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Sedro Woolley, WA, USA
7/13/2023 12:19pm
kcy4130 wrote:
Same kinematics? The demo, sender, and saracen are not hp, no idler. Intense is hp and has an idler: Big difference. But I agree their prototyping/development...

Same kinematics? The demo, sender, and saracen are not hp, no idler. Intense is hp and has an idler: Big difference. But I agree their prototyping/development methods don't seem to be conducted in the most efficient or rational manner. 

Yes similar linkage layout, definitely not same  kinematics, whatever that word means. I guess it’s a term meaning the overall affect suspension design on shock leverage ratio, anti squat, anti rise, and pedal kickback.
Concerning the CNC to 3D printing of the  6000 Al  BB/shock tunnel, as someone who worked in manufacturing/machining for many years, I can think of a lot of scenarios where machining them first then transitioning to 3d printing was the logical or possibly only solution. 

4
7/13/2023 2:12pm
Pretty big departure from the catalog frame.  The numbers are almost certainly quite different from geo perspective I’d imagine the kinematics are as well. maybe a...

Pretty big departure from the catalog frame.  The numbers are almost certainly quite different from geo perspective I’d imagine the kinematics are as well.

maybe a certain former vital staff member can spill some beans.

Without modeling it I can tell you it is almost certainly a higher starting leverage rate with a straighter progression (the current model is more of a linear-progressive-linear curve with a taper at the start and end), as well as higher anti-rise, presumably for more stable braking. Anti-squat might be at a similar level at sag, but will likely decrease at a lower rate compared to the current model since the instant center will move much less.

1
TEAMROBOT
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Los Angeles, CA, USA
Fantasy
7/13/2023 2:13pm
kcy4130 wrote:
Same kinematics? The demo, sender, and saracen are not hp, no idler. Intense is hp and has an idler: Big difference. But I agree their prototyping/development...

Same kinematics? The demo, sender, and saracen are not hp, no idler. Intense is hp and has an idler: Big difference. But I agree their prototyping/development methods don't seem to be conducted in the most efficient or rational manner. 

ERGue wrote:
Yes similar linkage layout, definitely not same  kinematics, whatever that word means. I guess it’s a term meaning the overall affect suspension design on shock leverage...

Yes similar linkage layout, definitely not same  kinematics, whatever that word means. I guess it’s a term meaning the overall affect suspension design on shock leverage ratio, anti squat, anti rise, and pedal kickback.
Concerning the CNC to 3D printing of the  6000 Al  BB/shock tunnel, as someone who worked in manufacturing/machining for many years, I can think of a lot of scenarios where machining them first then transitioning to 3d printing was the logical or possibly only solution. 

From Steber's tweet, it also sounds like weldable 3D printed aluminum wasn't an option until now. Which would support your point that CNC then 3D printing was the only option. I think it's been awesome getting to see this product development process play out in real time out in the open. Lots of popcorn.

13
7/13/2023 2:17pm

Has anyone heard anything about an updated Commencal clash? Or does the new SX take over that travel bracket for now?

1
7/13/2023 4:26pm Edited Date/Time 7/13/2023 4:30pm

IMG 2112

 I think this one flew under the radar on PB. Trumpf forging of the HMS Intense.

EDIT: it’s an SLS not a “forging” so probably the same ones Steber is welding up.

Ayme64
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2/15/2023
Location
Bastogne, BE
7/14/2023 12:57am

Waow a new prototype, waaw another 4 bar linkage DH

6
7/14/2023 3:50am
Pretty big departure from the catalog frame.  The numbers are almost certainly quite different from geo perspective I’d imagine the kinematics are as well. maybe a...

Pretty big departure from the catalog frame.  The numbers are almost certainly quite different from geo perspective I’d imagine the kinematics are as well.

maybe a certain former vital staff member can spill some beans.

Without modeling it I can tell you it is almost certainly a higher starting leverage rate with a straighter progression (the current model is more of...

Without modeling it I can tell you it is almost certainly a higher starting leverage rate with a straighter progression (the current model is more of a linear-progressive-linear curve with a taper at the start and end), as well as higher anti-rise, presumably for more stable braking. Anti-squat might be at a similar level at sag, but will likely decrease at a lower rate compared to the current model since the instant center will move much less.

Which means what exactly? What can we expect from this new frame? It will pedal better, it will track the ground better, will it still be active during braking? Smile

TimBud
Posts
544
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2/29/2012
Location
GB
7/14/2023 4:02am

Yes

7/14/2023 4:12am

IMG 5051 0

From Vitus’ instagram account - some details about the proto! Smile  

7
bikeparkmemes
Posts
54
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12/30/2020
Location
Santa Cruz, CA, USA
7/14/2023 8:32am

I am at Canadian DH Nationals this weekend and it appears the Norco team is on a different rig than the modified Range they have been running for however long now. Looks kind of similar from a distance but is definitely different, almost like a Range and a Commencal blend. I wasn't able to snap any but I am sure some pictures will get out there soon. 

5
ERGue
Posts
63
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1/24/2014
Location
Sedro Woolley, WA, USA
7/14/2023 8:49am
TEAMROBOT wrote:
From Steber's tweet, it also sounds like weldable 3D printed aluminum wasn't an option until now. Which would support your point that CNC then 3D printing...

From Steber's tweet, it also sounds like weldable 3D printed aluminum wasn't an option until now. Which would support your point that CNC then 3D printing was the only option. I think it's been awesome getting to see this product development process play out in real time out in the open. Lots of popcorn.

Yea agreed such a great project. Hire the two best US DH racers, and give it your best shot at giving them the fastest gravity machine possible all while sharing the process with the fanboys and haters. Took some guts. 

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THIRTYone
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Location
Camas, WA, USA
7/14/2023 10:20am
I am at Canadian DH Nationals this weekend and it appears the Norco team is on a different rig than the modified Range they have been...

I am at Canadian DH Nationals this weekend and it appears the Norco team is on a different rig than the modified Range they have been running for however long now. Looks kind of similar from a distance but is definitely different, almost like a Range and a Commencal blend. I wasn't able to snap any but I am sure some pictures will get out there soon. 

From their own insta vid. Reminds me of a nukeproof if it went high pivot, and stuffed the linkage in the inside of the frame? 313DBC3A-9F37-418F-922F-6CD5A3FEC446.png?VersionId=jSk1vaEi

 5FD736EA-8F38-4753-AD15-9200AAF43141

 

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grambo
Posts
147
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3/20/2017
Location
CA
7/14/2023 10:25am
I am at Canadian DH Nationals this weekend and it appears the Norco team is on a different rig than the modified Range they have been...

I am at Canadian DH Nationals this weekend and it appears the Norco team is on a different rig than the modified Range they have been running for however long now. Looks kind of similar from a distance but is definitely different, almost like a Range and a Commencal blend. I wasn't able to snap any but I am sure some pictures will get out there soon. 

I saw Kirk and the Norco crew testing this at Cypress on the DH tracks a few weeks/month-ish ago. Didn't get a close look but definitely not the Range w/ custom link. Curious to see more.

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