MTB Tech Rumors and Innovation

🤦‍♂️😆

Couldn't help but notice the AXS logo on the display in the first two photos 🧐

Guessing this is the new SRAM motor unit we've been hearing about, hiding in a Nukeproof proto

Looks like it, wondering if the axs logo means its a wireless display or if a remote on the bar can pair to it wirelessly. 

Looks like it’s maybe been retrofitted to a Repeater too?

I’ve heard through the grape vine Transition is scrambling to find a motor supplier moving forward due to all the Fauza system failures Pivot is experiencing. I wonder if Sram is stepping in to help…

The Relay is on the Fazua program. The Repeater is using Shimano mid drives.

Are there any reliable numbers regarding failures of drive units? It kinda seems everything is failing out there. Bird guys are fairly open in the owners group about a separate e-bike brand being started, but it's on pause as they were testing Shimano units and had a 75 % failure rate in the test fleet alone. They said they can't run a business with failure rates that high. With other brands they had problems getting volumes low enough for their needs (Bosch and co apparently require big orders), but everywhere there seems people have issues. Obviously some people with zero issues, some people with constant issues.

To be honest it's kinda funny that there are so many issues with these things with the number of players coming from the automotive side and reusing automotive components (motor components from electric water pumps, electric power steering units and similar) that should be validated to much higher requirements... 

Just saw him in Schladming, he's riding a differently stickered proto today. Unlikely that he'd go through the effort of changing overnight imo

Fixed the cable routing in the repeater too by the looks.

I know some people say it's not a problem (certainly not a fan myself), but the overwhelming amount of comments I've seen about headset routing have been negative. It'll be interesting to see whether other manufacturers (and which ones) will follow suit. 

 Some more pictures of the pivots new DH

Definitely some variant of the DW6 then; nice pauses @uina. I went ahead and laid out a very rough draft in Linkage, but without a clear side view it's fairly difficult to get any sort of accuracy, and I don't know if we'll ever get a clear look at the tiny linkage driving the chainstay. The finer characteristics are very sensitive to small link adjustments, so again take this with a heavy grain of salt (changing the orientation of the two short links for anti-squat could make the end of the leverage curve regressive, linear, or progressive; I went with what made the most sense to me).

 Assume they will be racing this then given its now being openly shared and it’s so close to the season starting. I hope so!

To me, it looks like the Pivot is a regular dual link design. I can't see any pivots near the dropouts nor aditional links  It looks like the lower link can be mounted higher or lower on the front triangle, and there is an idler mount there as well. I guess they are/were testing many different configurations. 

For it to be a standard DW Link it would have to have a vertical brace. There is a seatstay link hiding in there. And judging by the screen grabs it's very clear it's a DW6.

I feel like people keep forgetting about this, so I’ll re-post it.

On the Fauza comments, half of the battery's have failed on shop bikes before they're even sold and trek dropped them hard and fast for hub motors. They're software is terrible to update and work with. It's not been great. 

Honestly, every e-bike system seems like it's just getting into public beta and the first two gens were alpha testing for those who were brave enough. The failure rate at shop level for large shops should be considered embarrassing for the industry and while some of the software available is helpful, everything is different and while you're able to track down a likely issue, at this point for the cost of the bikes, a shop should be able to plug in and find the fault down to a wire so you don't need to spend 3 hours guessing and trying stuff that doesn't work only to get strung along by a support person who is going by a slightly more in depth tech pdf but hasn't had any real hands on experience. There usually only one person per bike company who actually knows how it all works it seems and stuff that comes on some of them just aren't available aftermarket like light mounts. It just seems like everyone's trying to run hurdles before they can crawl. 

There are some outlying models that seem to be great so far, TQ motors, rocky powerplay 4.0's, but the rest just seem to have enough issues without fast enough customer support for someone who just dumped 6k into a commuter bike. 

Unfortunatly putting out unfinished/not reliable products is a common practice in our industry.

However,for most products the fix/replacment is rather easy and quick and at worst will cost the customer or dealer a few hundred $$ to replace.

E systems on the other hand are a whole different story as you dont really have an option to replace them with other brand products.Further more,stocking such parts is crazy expensive even if you get credit as a dealer after it's deemed a warranty.

Bike brands will have to really choose wisely what system they use as the aftermath of a crap e-system can really hurt them .

I'm not interested in E-bikes and don't really follow E-bike news,  It's also been 15+ years since working in a shop, so the motor failure rates are news to me.  Is this perhaps one of the reasons Sram has been waiting so long to release their own motor?  From an outsider's perspective, it seems like they were sort of "late to the party."  Now I'm wondering if it was strategic.

Motor failures, battery failures, wires pinched in builds because the wire management sucks, bad controllers, bad software, support programs that are super vague. 

One huge issue currently is in super busy season when you're booking a couple weeks out, is that you now have random ebike stuff come in you have to manage to fit in to the week or you get people calling about how they just dropped 14k on their bike and it's broken, and you know what, that's a fair point. I now have to fit it into my day some how. It could be 10 minutes or it could be 3 hours only to have to wait 2-3 weeks for parts while that customer is calling daily. It's super stressful and I guarantee soon you start to see experienced mechanics at your local shops start to leave because of it all, I'm already seeing people burn out. Any other industry and a product would get dumped so fast if it was released in this state. And really all the training is basically a couple generic videos or PDF's that always end in "call for help".

I think originally the strategy was to skip the drive components and partner with Bosch to offer a complete build. But that was in the old, early days of e-bikes (QED, small, 15T Xsync sprockets for older Bosch drive units). Clearly the strategy changed.

nope, they just bought one (amprio, ex rheinmetall spin-off)

The local Pivot dealer to me has sold 6 of the fancy, schmancy Shuttle SL models, 4 have come back with motor, battery, or both issues. Pivot refuses to help because they don’t produce the parts, so they’re stuck calling the US distro and getting little to no help because as stated, they have zero hands on experience and are just reading off of an incomplete PDF sheet or exploded diagram. So yeah, you’ve got a group of customers with 9-13k near paper weights and the techs have to spend hours upon hours trying this, that, and the other thing.

 Pivot have jumped the gun with Fazua with the intention to be the first bike out with the system and get ahead of other brands

in hope to sell as much as possible.

The problem was that Fazua ride 60 system was not really ready for prime time.

After some critical updates,including a new (better) remote I hear the system is much more reliable and works better (smoother power delivery).

All in all it's a real shame customers are the real testers and the systems are'nt as bullet proof as they should be.

Is this specifically related to a new Fazua system (the Ride 60)? Because Fazua has been on the market for a few years now...

Ride 50 (the older system) was not that popular on mtb's (used on Lapierre and not alot of other brands) though I don't believe they had as much issues with it.

Agreed. Nobody should be splonking down 5 figures only to unknowingly be essentially just a beta tester.

not a whole lot of difference to buying a commencal lol.