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Dang, my bad. I forgot this is the internet. When I said "new frame" I should have specifically said "new paint and new shock" because "new frame" means totally new and redesigned from the ground up.
The new Enduro is coming MY24
Delete
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New Intense 6-bar DH bike spotted by Pinkbike:
https://www.pinkbike.com/news/spotted-another-new-intense-prototype-dh-…
Can't believe they STILL make the same mistake, it's pointed out multiple times in EVERY comment section under a wrong news article and the site even has an expert on the topic on staff doing the freaking 'Behind the numbers' series of articles, where an honest to god 6-bar bike was covered. Is it really that hard??
I agree they could make a note about how it appears to be 4 bar with an extra linkage driving the shock, but in that article they are quoting Jeff. He’s the one calling it 6 bar.
Regardless of who calls it 6-bar, it doesn't make it any more correct.
I wouldn't be surprised if Jeff calls it that intentionally for marketing purposes, not due to ignorance. Someone had to design the linkage and had to be in contact with Jeff (if it wasn't him designing it) and I'm sure that topic would be covered as well.
This is kind of irrelevant but behind the numbers was rad and they havent done it since like late 2020 I think. I commented on some article over a year ago wondering what was up and they said they were doing a bunch more "soon"... Those guys are blowing it.
New habit???
Yeah, not available till next year, some in July, some in September and the rest in January of 2024....
A Habit with a Zeb? Wasn't the Habit originally a ~120 mm bike? o.O
New Specialized Dissident??
I just got word that there's a new bike coming from YT.
No reason to get excited though, because unfortunately it isn't the updated Jeffsy a lot of people are waiting for.
It's gonna be a gravel bike and it's called "Szepter".
In their defense, from the shock it is a six-bar even if it's only a four-bar for the wheel. But then again there is definitely some marketing angle to be had with the 'fanciness'/novelty of a six-bar.
Sorry for being off-topic again, fork this conversation maybe?
That's the key, it doesn't matter from the shock's perspective. We never any more say a linkage driven single pivot is a 4-bar, but 'from the shock's perspective', it is. All linkages driving the shock change is the leverage curve. The axle path, the shape of it, the antisquat and antirise characteristics are defined by the suspension kinematics with the shock removed. In that regard you can look at how many links you can remove (or how many need to be present) for the axle path not to change. (Special consideration for the Split-pivot and Trek ABP as these are single pivot antisquat-wise, but 4-bar antirise-wise.)
With a single pivot you need only the swing arm (remove the seatstay and the rocker of a Commencal for example and nothing changes), with the Enduro, Demo, this Intense, Sender you can remove the scissor link and the wheel will move along the same trajectory. Remove the main rocker and the wheel will float in space.
Remove for example the dogbone link off the 160E or V5 supreme (or a Felt) and the wheel again flops around in space, even with the shock still there. That makes it a 6-bar.
FWIW, this is what Linkage offers when you start a new project:
https://i.imgur.com/byviDQI.png
(it's not possible to embed images from links anymore?)
nm
Not to put a damper (pun intended) on anyone's engineering snobbery but at least in North America a 4+2 configuration is still considered a 6 bar linkage. Watt 1 and Stephensen 1 are the typical 6 bars you see used on bikes. Most fully constrained 6 bar linkages include a closed loop 4 bar linkage but those two specifically have the ground element (frame) as part of the 4 bar loop. I can't actually think of any bikes that use a full floater 4 bar loop (Stephenson II) but I do think there might have been one at some point.
If I understand correctly you're aiming at the Watt linkage being a 4+2?
To cover what Intense is developing (or the Demo/Enduro/Sender) you need another anchor point on the ground (as the scissor link is connected to the frame too) and have a linkage connected to that (and the shock to it as well). The three in your graphic are what would be considered a proper 6-bar in my opinion.
Like I said, in my opinion it's not what the shock 'sees', it's what defines the wheel path.
Scott embargo lifts on the 3-4th
Perhaps a bad reference image.
Knolly/Specialized are using a Watt 2. The new Commencal DH is interesting because it is one of the few where the wheel is attached to links 5/6 rather than 2/3/4. In the end doesn't really make a big difference but it can give you some nice separation of antisquat properties and a little bit more control over axle path. .
Who is making these rules?
A linkage driven single pivot like a Kona is a 4 bar linkage. This system is a 6 bar linkage.
Why would we be just counting the links between the wheel and the frame instead of the whole system?
The theory behind this linkage is pretty similar to what you have deemed to be a "proper" 6 bar linkage anyway - more opportunity to tune/decouple wheel path and shock progression.
The 4 bars between the frame and wheel dictate the wheel path and the other 2 allow further tuning of progression. Why would you consider it to be less deserving of the 6 bar name? It's a different kind of 6 bar linkage than say, a DW6, but it is still one.
There's no international MTB Nomenclature Committee enforcing these rules (if there was I wouldn't be here complaining about "loam" all the time), but "the rules" that Primoz is talking about have been commonly accepted suspension terms in the industry for the last 20 years, at least. Kona even refers to their suspension design as a "Faux Bar" linkage, meaning they know it's not a "real" four bar, it's a linkage-driven single pivot. If you're using a definition where a Kona is a four bar, then an Evil Following, Transition TR500, and Orange Switch 7 are all four bar bikes, too.
Hell, even my night out this weekend was a four bar by this loose of a definition!
“Union Forum Internationale, (UFI), a branch of the holy UCI. An organisation which values the correctness of all statements on forums as much as their own integrity.
After each forum has entered their bid (and wire transfer) to be allowed to hold a discussion, and forum members have paid their exorbitant UFI-licence fee’s, the UFI will closely monitor all tech related statement on correctness.
In line with the UFI-rule book appendix 3.5.7, appropriate measures will be taken where deemed necessary by a senior aged delegate who hasn’t touched a bike since he got his drivers license.”
I’ll let myself out, slow start today.
I'm a mechanical engineer and even I'm on the verge of yelling "NERDS!" at you all. But seriously can it just be called a linkage driven horst, (or linkage driven four bar) to differentiate it from a conventional horst?
Rulezman will show us the BEST BIKE EVER later tonight. It will probably be very large, have a double crown, coil shock, light wheels, skinny tires, no inserts, short stem and be THE BEST BIKE OR NOTHING. Currently Banshee is the best bike, so it may be downgraded to shit after the new launch
Any rumors on the new optic and sight supposedly being worked on? They were last released about this time, 3 years ago.