MTB Tech Rumors and Innovation

Does this mean no more x-ups on canyons?

There is a pretty detailed article on NSMB about it...

https://nsmb.com/articles/canyons-kis-tech-promises-steering-stability/

.

It's been a thing since the previous Spectral at least, it has a knock block at the top of the top tube.

here's vital's experience on the new spectral w/ the K.I.S. steering dealie (simonetti rode it) - https://www.vitalmtb.com/features/steering-assist-mountain-bike-we-ride…

and ha @Karabuka, one of our strengths is "good for sui's?" HAHA

It’s always wild to me that these things are either massively misconstrued, or someone didn’t quite read the whole way through, and went right to the comments to find justification for their opinions.

I think it states clearly in the release that it is definitely not a steering damper, but essentially a method to self centre the handlebars.

and in the brief review on that other site, it states that riding with your hands off is quite a bit more difficult.

Seems like slightly different experiences with the same product, on the same bike. (Vital, PB, NSM .

I really like that all 3 articles have the exact same pic, with different riders…..hope the croissants and wine were lovely

They say it's for bar flop, which is just what happens with slack head angles and low offset forks really at low speeds.

2 instances where I've even remotely noticed it.

- climbing a steep hill seated at super low speed

- again low speed, nudging into a chute.

Here's my approximation for that Intense prototype. Probably not going to be this progressive, but this one has a leverage rate nearly identical to the current Demo in shape and values. Also notice the concentric upper pivot which you can make out from the image, similar to the Demo and Kenevo SL. 

What does it give for AR ? Similar to the previous gen Proto ?

Was always too scared of losing my teeth so never seriously commited to suis, managed to pull semi decent x-up back in the days of freeride though 

Who are the product managers green lighting these things? It would take very little effort to do a "spike" and figure out "oh wait, there are lots of steering dampers out there, we may want to copy one of those IF this is actually a problem worth solving. 

This has to be one of the most dumb ideas I've seen in a long (long) time. 

Definitely feeling like a solution thats looking for a problem...

Sometimes I wonder of the people designing bikes out there have ever wrenched on a bike. Then I sometimes wonder if they even rode a mountain bike seriously...

Perhaps they enjoy working on their bike so much that they designed thru headset routing to provide themselves with hours of enjoyment to perform a task that'd usually take a few minutes. Or maybe they're just sadists? 

The funny thing is that you already are starting to see excess bike inventory from the Covid ordering boom/backlog.  Now you're going to have a bunch of brands with bikes no one wants due to the stupid headset routing, going to pile up onto the excess inventory even more pushing prices down.

deleted

I will say this whipsaw effect of COVID could have some pretty not-so-awesome effects on R&D as we realize all COVID really did was pull future earnings forward. This, combined with a tough macro backdrop could spell for some tough times ahead for the bike industry (and this thread).

That said, if a stupid "bar centering device" is any indication, maybe we've hit "peak innovation" in the bike world for a bit and the effect I'm describing above is just salt on the wound.

o long as people don't mind replacing stuff at a relatively quick clip, and no competition comes in to improve that side of the equation, I don't know how much further technology can really go (in a big way) over the coming years. I'd bet we're coming into "market maturity" where a 5 year old bike won't be all that different performance-wise than the latest/greatest. Just a hunch. 

BTW, who is downvoting my comment as to how stupid the bar centering device is? Please, out yourself and retort what I'm missing. Its a solution to a problem that does not exist. LOL 

I downvoted for calling it a steering damper, which it is not.  But apparently you realized that with the "bar centering device" comment.

Either way, here's an upvote for the "market maturity" comment, because while there are always improvements being made, I totally agree that the ~5 year performance gap shrinks with each new model.

I've mentioned that I have little incentive to swap out my 2019 bike (that was unveiled in 2018) as there's nothing really substantially different out there, except some minor updates in the components (2023 RS stuff, waiting for the new drivetrains). So I would agree we're nearing maturity as every 5 year period before this bike brought MASSIVE changes - wheel sizes, hub spacing, 3x to 2x to 1x drivetrains, dropper posts, better wheels and tyres, better suspension, not to mention the changes in geometry.

I might be way off and there will be big changes happening soon (god I hope it won't be electric everything...), but I think or at least hope that the improvements in bikes will be in the durability and quality of life fields, so better bearing longevity in the pivots, easier servicing (lol, through headset routing), etc. But I think I've said all of this recently?

To illustrate the evolution of bikes (another repost of mine), here are my last three bikes (the ones before were XC hardtails) from 2008, 2015 and 2019 (the Bird is still current):
https://imgur.com/gallery/p8lOSJq

Full suspension bikes where the bottom bracket isn’t directly connected to the front triangle are fundamentally missing the point. 

I had a GT Fury 2017 which was an excellent bike with an excellent suspension, yet it had a BB floating between the front triangle and the rear triangle so I wouldn't be as final in my jugement of a bike having a BB on a linkage. Before that bike on the "recent" bikes" I had Suprem V3, V4 and after I had the current Fury and I honestly found it very good. I'd be more skeptical with proper URT tho but since I never tried one it is more theoretical so that only worth so much.

Transition Smuggler, from Mtbr: 

Fair. I was comparing it to a steering damper in that they are trying to solve a similar problem through different means. TBH, that's my first real complaint, they do not directly state the problem(s) they are trying to solve. They state the product aims to  "combat inherent handling characteristics of slacker head tube angles and help control input from rider". That isn't a definition of a problem. That is some marketing buzzword BS. 

They mention "front wheel flop" can be a problem (really?), and the front wheel can be "light" with "80% of the weight on the back wheel" (false if you are riding well). If these are the problems they are trying to solve, a steering damper also is a candidate to solve these, all the while being adjustable, having both high and low speed damping and accomplishing a lot more than just making it easier to (maybe) balance at slow speed going into a chute or keeping your bars aiming the direction you want at speed.

So yeah, if you think in terms of "problem(s) product aims to solve" not "how the product works" you can see why a number of people are comparing the (really silly) idea to a steering damper. 



 

Jeff.brines can u give us any info on that smuggler? Release date?

I too am curious about the new Smuggler.  I love my Spur, it's been a phenomenal bike for my local trails, but on a couple of riding trips to big mountain trails I wished I had a little "more."  I can no longer justify having a long travel Bike in addition to the Spur so I've been contemplating getting something slightly longer travel than the Spur but still want it to be lively on my local trails.  #goldilocksbike

Even if it is there with the intention to prevent handlebar wobble... How often is that an issue with mountain bikes?? o.O I've only experienced it VERY rarely when riding hands free on tarmac fairly quickly. There have been mad men doing the steep snow parts of Megavalanche by holding onto the fork crowns to be more aero. I'm guessing most of the surfaces a mountain bike rides on, bar tarmac, give enough inherent damping to not require a steering damper. On the road though, that's a different story (3:36)

Things I see, or dont

headset cable routing

chainstay pivot, makes me think it’s 140ish rear travel

Geo flip chip, which I was kinda hoping for, or the ability to MX a short travel Transition bike.

much narrower top tube than Spire/Patrol/Sentinel

not trunion mounted shock

teeny weeny link, ala Spur 

smaller dia headtube than big bikes, looks like a 34 on the front, so maybe 140ish front travel.

has anyone posted this new enduro sworks frame already? i dont see it anywhere 

https://www.instagram.com/p/CkBxIz-vJwJ/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_linkhttps://www.instagram.com/p/CkBxIz-vJwJ/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link

just new paint