MTB Tech Rumors and Innovation

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6/3/2022 8:25pm
Volta55 wrote:
https://www.vitalmtb.com/photos/features/PIT-BITS-iXS-European-Downhill-Cup-Semmering,13687/Link,152033/sspomer,2 What/Who's bike is this? I wonder why they chose to create a welded rocker link; compared to creating one via CNC machine. Warpage, tighter tolerances...
https://www.vitalmtb.com/photos/features/PIT-BITS-iXS-European-Downhill…

What/Who's bike is this?

I wonder why they chose to create a welded rocker link; compared to creating one via CNC machine.

Warpage, tighter tolerances come to mind
that one of neko's bikes, i thought his brother was riding it?
Primoz
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6/3/2022 10:08pm
I think the plates were welded in after the fact to improve stiffness.
2
TimBud
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6/3/2022 11:35pm Edited Date/Time 6/3/2022 11:38pm
Neko’s new frames on Insta
I love watching the little refinements with each version.
(Sorry I couldn’t post the images properly)
1
6/3/2022 11:37pm
Volta55 wrote:
https://www.vitalmtb.com/photos/features/PIT-BITS-iXS-European-Downhill-Cup-Semmering,13687/Link,152033/sspomer,2 What/Who's bike is this? I wonder why they chose to create a welded rocker link; compared to creating one via CNC machine. Warpage, tighter tolerances...
https://www.vitalmtb.com/photos/features/PIT-BITS-iXS-European-Downhill…

What/Who's bike is this?

I wonder why they chose to create a welded rocker link; compared to creating one via CNC machine.

Warpage, tighter tolerances come to mind
that one of neko's bikes, i thought his brother was riding it?
Please more Pics of the complete Race Bikes, the mullet YT, the red telemetry Bike...
gibbon
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wales GB
6/4/2022 12:24am
Volta55 wrote:
https://www.vitalmtb.com/photos/features/PIT-BITS-iXS-European-Downhill-Cup-Semmering,13687/Link,152033/sspomer,2 What/Who's bike is this? I wonder why they chose to create a welded rocker link; compared to creating one via CNC machine. Warpage, tighter tolerances...
https://www.vitalmtb.com/photos/features/PIT-BITS-iXS-European-Downhill…

What/Who's bike is this?

I wonder why they chose to create a welded rocker link; compared to creating one via CNC machine.

Warpage, tighter tolerances come to mind
I guess Neko has been experimenting with stiffness of the linkage.Initially he was bending shockbolts so beefed up the linkage and later he removed some of the bracing, maybe welding in the side plates this is an easier way to modify it rather than getting them CNC'ed new?
dazreed
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6/4/2022
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GB
6/4/2022 12:59am
Doesn't neko run fox? The frame posted from the Euro cup is running rockshox so possibly someone else making a similar frame, as the braces around the headtube look different aswell.
1
6/4/2022 1:08am
dazreed wrote:
Doesn't neko run fox? The frame posted from the Euro cup is running rockshox so possibly someone else making a similar frame, as the braces around...
Doesn't neko run fox? The frame posted from the Euro cup is running rockshox so possibly someone else making a similar frame, as the braces around the headtube look different aswell.
Neko gave away on of the earlier frames to another guy, he is running rockshox, it is def on of his older frames
Jon_Angieri
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Broken Arrow, OK US
6/4/2022 4:21am
What’s up with the SLX levers?
juliusk
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1/21/2021
Location
Clausthal-Zellerfeld DE
6/4/2022 5:23am
What’s up with the SLX levers? [img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2022/06/04/12579/s1200_E5DF2713_2487_4A23_8942_02F4C3686741.jpg[/img]
What’s up with the SLX levers?
Looks like they are reinforced as you see a lot of xt and slx levers breaking there
6/4/2022 5:29am
What’s up with the SLX levers? [img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2022/06/04/12579/s1200_E5DF2713_2487_4A23_8942_02F4C3686741.jpg[/img]
What’s up with the SLX levers?
I think thats the bike of Timo Pries and he Build some interesting stuff that he rides at the IXS races like a self Made telemetry system or these brake levers. I have meet him a year ago and there he was riding 3D printed brake levers.
habaden
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6/4/2022 5:43am
New Ergon grips on Richie's bike? They look pretty thick.
7
Primoz
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6/4/2022 6:32am Edited Date/Time 6/4/2022 1:12pm
Volta55 wrote:
https://www.vitalmtb.com/photos/features/PIT-BITS-iXS-European-Downhill-Cup-Semmering,13687/Link,152033/sspomer,2 What/Who's bike is this? I wonder why they chose to create a welded rocker link; compared to creating one via CNC machine. Warpage, tighter tolerances...
https://www.vitalmtb.com/photos/features/PIT-BITS-iXS-European-Downhill…

What/Who's bike is this?

I wonder why they chose to create a welded rocker link; compared to creating one via CNC machine.

Warpage, tighter tolerances come to mind
gibbon wrote:
I guess Neko has been experimenting with stiffness of the linkage.Initially he was bending shockbolts so beefed up the linkage and later he removed some of...
I guess Neko has been experimenting with stiffness of the linkage.Initially he was bending shockbolts so beefed up the linkage and later he removed some of the bracing, maybe welding in the side plates this is an easier way to modify it rather than getting them CNC'ed new?
The shock bolts were bending not because of the stiffness of the frame (or lack thereof), but because of their thickness and the loads applied to them. They were bent into a banana.
2
6/4/2022 8:45am
Im using 760 bars. Just throwing that in🙂
6/4/2022 9:34am
habaden wrote:
New Ergon grips on Richie's bike? They look pretty thick.[img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2022/06/04/12580/s1200_chrome_5j805GyjPC.jpg[/img]
New Ergon grips on Richie's bike? They look pretty thick.
Those look like the burgtec Minnaar Grips, with an Ergon clamp moved to it.
I could be wrong though
7
krabo83
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719
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Location
AT
6/4/2022 11:54am
Those look like the burgtec Minnaar Grips, with an Ergon clamp moved to it.
I could be wrong though
don‘t see it.
1
6/4/2022 2:01pm
The talk of Neko's other frame... its now been stolen... which one of you was it...
6/4/2022 6:07pm
The talk of Neko's other frame... its now been stolen... which one of you was it...
Just saw that on instagram, it was the frame he gave to a local SouthEast rider. Just stolen in Austria at the race they were at.
JimmyK
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GB
6/4/2022 11:35pm
Those look like the burgtec Minnaar Grips, with an Ergon clamp moved to it.
I could be wrong though
Fairly sure they are, I think you can see the top of the Burgtec logo on the underside of the grip.
1
gibbon
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6/5/2022 1:17am
Volta55 wrote:
https://www.vitalmtb.com/photos/features/PIT-BITS-iXS-European-Downhill-Cup-Semmering,13687/Link,152033/sspomer,2 What/Who's bike is this? I wonder why they chose to create a welded rocker link; compared to creating one via CNC machine. Warpage, tighter tolerances...
https://www.vitalmtb.com/photos/features/PIT-BITS-iXS-European-Downhill…

What/Who's bike is this?

I wonder why they chose to create a welded rocker link; compared to creating one via CNC machine.

Warpage, tighter tolerances come to mind
gibbon wrote:
I guess Neko has been experimenting with stiffness of the linkage.Initially he was bending shockbolts so beefed up the linkage and later he removed some of...
I guess Neko has been experimenting with stiffness of the linkage.Initially he was bending shockbolts so beefed up the linkage and later he removed some of the bracing, maybe welding in the side plates this is an easier way to modify it rather than getting them CNC'ed new?
Primoz wrote:
The shock bolts were bending not because of the stiffness of the frame (or lack thereof), but because of their thickness and the loads applied to...
The shock bolts were bending not because of the stiffness of the frame (or lack thereof), but because of their thickness and the loads applied to them. They were bent into a banana.
Engage pedant mode-
Neko Mullaly from Frameworks video "I've bent a lot of shock bolts because I think because the link is flexing and the span of the bolt is too long"
Dis-engage pedant mode (not really, that's my secret Cap.....I'm always pedantic).
2
sspomer
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Fantasy
6/5/2022 5:35am
in his last video, neko said shorter, high quality bolts are holding up just fine with our without the link bridge (hit the 2:30 mark)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9FkAP7k_CbA

4
Primoz
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6/5/2022 8:07am Edited Date/Time 6/5/2022 8:29am
gibbon wrote:
I guess Neko has been experimenting with stiffness of the linkage.Initially he was bending shockbolts so beefed up the linkage and later he removed some of...
I guess Neko has been experimenting with stiffness of the linkage.Initially he was bending shockbolts so beefed up the linkage and later he removed some of the bracing, maybe welding in the side plates this is an easier way to modify it rather than getting them CNC'ed new?
Primoz wrote:
The shock bolts were bending not because of the stiffness of the frame (or lack thereof), but because of their thickness and the loads applied to...
The shock bolts were bending not because of the stiffness of the frame (or lack thereof), but because of their thickness and the loads applied to them. They were bent into a banana.
gibbon wrote:
Engage pedant mode- Neko Mullaly from Frameworks video "I've bent a lot of shock bolts because I think because the link is flexing and the span...
Engage pedant mode-
Neko Mullaly from Frameworks video "I've bent a lot of shock bolts because I think because the link is flexing and the span of the bolt is too long"
Dis-engage pedant mode (not really, that's my secret Cap.....I'm always pedantic).
"...the span of the bolt is too long" is quite a factor in this. You'd need a hell of a flex in the frame to break a bolt.

Went back to the (second) In Depth video and it's a standard allen bolt with a standard thread length (for the given bolt length). It looks like it's an M6 bolt? I'm going to go with an M6 bolt as it doesn't seem like it's an M8 and a lot of bikes use a size 5 allen wrench for the shock bolts, which means an M6 bolt for a standard allen bolt.

Anywho, the bend looks to be right where the thread starts. Coincidence? Nope. That M6 bolt with the fi6 mm shank? Yeah, that's more or less a fi5 mm diameter cross section when you factor in the thread being cut into the 6 mm nominal diameter. Same goes for the relief in the shank to be able to roll the thread and all.

So that shiny 6 mm diameter bolt you have there? It's actually a 5 mm when you factor in the lowest load carrying diameter. Which, looking at it from a stiffness perspective, is less than half than with a 6 mm cross section - the second moment of area is defined by diameter to the power of 4, so 5^4/6^4 comes out at 0,482 (48,2 %). Taking the standard defined inner diameter for an M6 thread that is ~4,9 mm (diddly squat at first sight)? It drops to 44,5 %.

If it was an M5 bolt with the smaller diameter of 4 mm, then the stiffness value at the threads drops to ~40 % of the shank diameter.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_moment_of_area
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_second_moments_of_area
https://amesweb.info/Screws/metric-thread-dimensions-calculator.aspx
Looking at the last link, the minimum thread root diameter is even lower at 4,5 mm than what I looked up in my handbook, where the bolt diameter was equated to the inner nut diameter. This page does it properly including the tolerances. Obviously a 4,5 mm diameter makes things worse for the stiffness.

Having a custom made bolt with a 6 mm seat in the rocker before starting the M6 thread would likely help a lot.



Am I offtopic again?

8
gibbon
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6/5/2022 8:38am
Am I offtopic again?

Little bit, that's why we love you. Tongue
14
habaden
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Spokane, WA US
6/6/2022 7:19am
Latest WynTV has Richie talking about returning to DH if Yeti makes a frame, but he said they still don't have anything for this year. Do we think one is in development? Would they use their new 6 bar linkage?
6/6/2022 9:03am
Somewhat off topic as the bike has been out for a while, but I was cleaning a Norco Range when I saw what I thought was a flip chip. The bike isn't advertised as having one, but is it for a conversion to a more DH-oriented model?

3
kcy4130
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MT US
6/6/2022 9:13am
Somewhat off topic as the bike has been out for a while, but I was cleaning a Norco Range when I saw what I thought was...
Somewhat off topic as the bike has been out for a while, but I was cleaning a Norco Range when I saw what I thought was a flip chip. The bike isn't advertised as having one, but is it for a conversion to a more DH-oriented model?

Maybe it's just the photo but it doesn't look symmetric top for bottom, i.e. you couldn't flip it around. Looks like a way to have a replaceable threaded insert that is shaped such so it doesn't rotate when tightened.
10
haen
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CA US
6/6/2022 11:20am
Somewhat off topic as the bike has been out for a while, but I was cleaning a Norco Range when I saw what I thought was...
Somewhat off topic as the bike has been out for a while, but I was cleaning a Norco Range when I saw what I thought was a flip chip. The bike isn't advertised as having one, but is it for a conversion to a more DH-oriented model?

kcy4130 wrote:
Maybe it's just the photo but it doesn't look symmetric top for bottom, i.e. you couldn't flip it around. Looks like a way to have a...
Maybe it's just the photo but it doesn't look symmetric top for bottom, i.e. you couldn't flip it around. Looks like a way to have a replaceable threaded insert that is shaped such so it doesn't rotate when tightened.
Flip chips are asymmetric but I think you're right in terms of it being a threaded insert.
kcy4130
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6/6/2022 11:43am
haen wrote:
Flip chips are asymmetric but I think you're right in terms of it being a threaded insert.
I mean the outer edge of the chip is not symmetric, the lower side has is a half circle tangential to the sides, top end is squared off somewhat, kinda like a guitar pick. Of course a flip chip hole is asymmetric, but the outer edge that interfaces with the cutout it rests in has to be symmetric in shape. Looks like it was done intentionally to prevent someone installing it incorrectly. Or maybe it's just an optical illusion cause I can't see it perfectly in the photo and it is symmetric like a flip chip.
3
mfoga
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Moreno Valley, CA US
Fantasy
6/6/2022 12:19pm
Didn't they use the range for DH recently?
6/6/2022 12:48pm
mfoga wrote:
Didn't they use the range for DH recently?
Norco did use it for DH with a linkage change.

Williams racing makes a 200mm, mullet link for the Norco.
1
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