MTB Tech Rumors and Innovation

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Edthorne
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Edthorne 9/9/2021 6:51am
9/9/2021 6:51am
melonhead1145 wrote:
Yes, prototypes can only be used if they have been approved by UCI and for 12 months, until being offered for sale to the public. They...
Yes, prototypes can only be used if they have been approved by UCI and for 12 months, until being offered for sale to the public. They can request an extension to the 12 months but it's all down to UCI. I'm not sure if it has to be able to be bought after 12 months or as long as they intend to sell it in the future I'm not sure
Ahh ok that makes sense, thanks for the explanation. Particularly in light of what @metadave mentioned about how long Intense has been running the M279.
Primoz
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Primoz 9/9/2021 7:12am
9/9/2021 7:12am
But if each iteration is a new proto, then all of them should be for sale within a year of them being used?

That rule should be abolished ASAP, at least for mountain biking. Or AT LEAST for gravity racing. Make DH the real Formula 1 of MTB.
2
Edthorne
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Edthorne 9/9/2021 8:03am
9/9/2021 8:03am Edited Date/Time 9/9/2021 8:06am
Primoz wrote:
But if each iteration is a new proto, then all of them should be for sale within a year of them being used? That rule should...
But if each iteration is a new proto, then all of them should be for sale within a year of them being used?

That rule should be abolished ASAP, at least for mountain biking. Or AT LEAST for gravity racing. Make DH the real Formula 1 of MTB.
I may be misinterpreting the regulation, but I don't think it mandates that the bikes must be sold, just that they cannot be used after the one year mark unless they're sold. That way the brands have time to experiment, but are still required to release a production bike.

I also understand that DH bikes are not particularly hot sellers, but I am a fan of the idea that you're able to buy the bikes being used on the circuit. This is not related to bikes at all, but the world has steadily been losing cool cars since the WRC dropped their production regulations.
3
jonkranked
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jonkranked 9/9/2021 10:23am
9/9/2021 10:23am
Primoz wrote:
But if each iteration is a new proto, then all of them should be for sale within a year of them being used? That rule should...
But if each iteration is a new proto, then all of them should be for sale within a year of them being used?

That rule should be abolished ASAP, at least for mountain biking. Or AT LEAST for gravity racing. Make DH the real Formula 1 of MTB.
Edthorne wrote:
I may be misinterpreting the regulation, but I don't think it mandates that the bikes must be sold, just that they cannot be used after the...
I may be misinterpreting the regulation, but I don't think it mandates that the bikes must be sold, just that they cannot be used after the one year mark unless they're sold. That way the brands have time to experiment, but are still required to release a production bike.

I also understand that DH bikes are not particularly hot sellers, but I am a fan of the idea that you're able to buy the bikes being used on the circuit. This is not related to bikes at all, but the world has steadily been losing cool cars since the WRC dropped their production regulations.
your interpretation seems to be correct. there is a 12month duration that a bike can be raced, at that time the options are:

-request an extension
-release the bike for sale
-discontinue racing the bike

cannondale tested their new "DH" bike for i believe 2 seasons before abandoning that DH race program. however that bike did ultimately become the new jekyll.
7
jonkranked
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jonkranked 9/9/2021 11:23am
9/9/2021 11:23am Edited Date/Time 9/9/2021 11:25am
the rule regarding bikes being marketed (ie for sale or purchase) was implemented for the various road disciplines in 2010 via Technical Regulations for Bicycles – A Practical Guide To Implementation.

i was able to find this piece of information here https://road.cc/content/news/4934-new-uci-rule-clarification-spells-tro…

here's the actual Guide itself (for other nerds like me):

https://s3.amazonaws.com/USACWeb/forms/mechanics/UCI-BikeReg.pdf

so i'd assume that this rule was extended to mountain disciplines not long after 2010.

both the RN01 and dual shock gemini predated this rule. the Honda RN01 was raced 2004-2007. the dual shock gemini was early 2000's, i wanna say 2001?


edit: the guidance i posted did not include the 12 month grace period for prototypes, i believe that clause was added later.
adamdigby
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adamdigby 9/9/2021 12:29pm
9/9/2021 12:29pm Edited Date/Time 9/9/2021 12:31pm
https://archive.uci.org/docs/default-source/equipment/clarificationguid…

Search for ARTICLE 1.3.006
Found at the end of the rule: "Any equipment which is not commercially available and is not authorised (not authorised by UCI Equipment Unit or authorised period expired), may not be used in cycling events
governed by the UCI Regulations."

Seems that as long as you apply and are approved for a prototype frame AND/or component or textiles you are good to go for at least a year without needing to make things available to the public. I'm pretty sure guys were running proto derailleurs for years before they were made available among other components. Lots of people should have been disqualified if the rules were actually enforced.

You can find the prototype approval form here (It's worth noting that mountain biking isn't even an option for bike type):
https://archive.uci.org/docs/default-source/equipment/eng-prototype-app…

1
melonhead1145 9/9/2021 12:35pm
9/9/2021 12:35pm
jonkranked wrote:
your interpretation seems to be correct. there is a 12month duration that a bike can be raced, at that time the options are: -request an extension...
your interpretation seems to be correct. there is a 12month duration that a bike can be raced, at that time the options are:

-request an extension
-release the bike for sale
-discontinue racing the bike

cannondale tested their new "DH" bike for i believe 2 seasons before abandoning that DH race program. however that bike did ultimately become the new jekyll.
Apparently this is why the Cannondale DH team wrapped up rather suddenly, which left Matt Simmonds high and dry without a team. They could no longer continue using the bike at WC because they did not bring it to market after the 12 months. Seeing as this then went on to be the Jekyl enduro bike I wonder if they ever planned on releasing a DH bike.
3
NoahColorado 9/9/2021 2:30pm
9/9/2021 2:30pm
adamdigby wrote:
https://archive.uci.org/docs/default-source/equipment/clarificationguideoftheucitechnicalregulation-2018-05-02-eng_english.pdf Search for ARTICLE 1.3.006 Found at the end of the rule: "Any equipment which is not commercially available and is not authorised (not authorised by...
https://archive.uci.org/docs/default-source/equipment/clarificationguid…

Search for ARTICLE 1.3.006
Found at the end of the rule: "Any equipment which is not commercially available and is not authorised (not authorised by UCI Equipment Unit or authorised period expired), may not be used in cycling events
governed by the UCI Regulations."

Seems that as long as you apply and are approved for a prototype frame AND/or component or textiles you are good to go for at least a year without needing to make things available to the public. I'm pretty sure guys were running proto derailleurs for years before they were made available among other components. Lots of people should have been disqualified if the rules were actually enforced.

You can find the prototype approval form here (It's worth noting that mountain biking isn't even an option for bike type):
https://archive.uci.org/docs/default-source/equipment/eng-prototype-app…

"This practical guide applies to equipment used in road, track and cyclo-cross events."

It's my understanding that none of this stuff applies to MTB, thus why you don't see "UCI Approved" stickers on production mountain bikes like you do on road and cyclocross bikes.
4
mfoga
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mfoga 9/9/2021 3:46pm
9/9/2021 3:46pm
NoahColorado wrote:
"This practical guide applies to equipment used in road, track and cyclo-cross events." It's my understanding that none of this stuff applies to MTB, thus why...
"This practical guide applies to equipment used in road, track and cyclo-cross events."

It's my understanding that none of this stuff applies to MTB, thus why you don't see "UCI Approved" stickers on production mountain bikes like you do on road and cyclocross bikes.
First good thing UCI ever did invoking MTB. Even if it was more like we don't care enough to police them from UCI side.
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jonkranked
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jonkranked 9/9/2021 6:01pm
9/9/2021 6:01pm Edited Date/Time 9/9/2021 6:33pm
adamdigby wrote:
https://archive.uci.org/docs/default-source/equipment/clarificationguideoftheucitechnicalregulation-2018-05-02-eng_english.pdf Search for ARTICLE 1.3.006 Found at the end of the rule: "Any equipment which is not commercially available and is not authorised (not authorised by...
https://archive.uci.org/docs/default-source/equipment/clarificationguid…

Search for ARTICLE 1.3.006
Found at the end of the rule: "Any equipment which is not commercially available and is not authorised (not authorised by UCI Equipment Unit or authorised period expired), may not be used in cycling events
governed by the UCI Regulations."

Seems that as long as you apply and are approved for a prototype frame AND/or component or textiles you are good to go for at least a year without needing to make things available to the public. I'm pretty sure guys were running proto derailleurs for years before they were made available among other components. Lots of people should have been disqualified if the rules were actually enforced.

You can find the prototype approval form here (It's worth noting that mountain biking isn't even an option for bike type):
https://archive.uci.org/docs/default-source/equipment/eng-prototype-app…

NoahColorado wrote:
"This practical guide applies to equipment used in road, track and cyclo-cross events." It's my understanding that none of this stuff applies to MTB, thus why...
"This practical guide applies to equipment used in road, track and cyclo-cross events."

It's my understanding that none of this stuff applies to MTB, thus why you don't see "UCI Approved" stickers on production mountain bikes like you do on road and cyclocross bikes.
that means that practical guide only applies to road track and cyclocross. as stated in the preceding paragraph:

"This document does not replace Articles 1.3.001 to 1.3.034 of the UCI Regulations, but
rather complements them and illustrates the technical rules defined therein. The objective
of this document is to offer a definitive interpretation in order to facilitate understanding
and application of the Regulations by international commissaires, teams and manufacturers."


The Technical Regulation itself does not make a differentiation of rule 1.3.006 (re: Commercialization) applying only to certain disciplines, and is interpreted to apply to all cycling disciplines subject to UCI regulation.


The "UCI Approved' stickers only apply to bikes subject to the Technical Specifications (Chapter 3 Subsection 2, items 1.3.011 through 1.3.025), as that subsection states:

"Except where stated to the contrary, the following technical specifications shall apply to
bicycles used in road, track and cyclo-cross racing.
The specific characteristics of bicycles used in mountain bike, BMX, BMX Freestyle,
trials, indoor cycling and paracycling for riders with disabilities are set out in the part
regulating the discipline in question."

That's why you don't see "UCI Approved" stickers on mountain bikes, as the Technical Specifications rules are not applicable.

UCI Part I of the Technical Regulation (containing the above referenced chapters & subsection):

https://assets.ctfassets.net/761l7gh5x5an/O6r9QjLvGlvydLeHxwLbN/8ea14c7…

all that being said, just because the rules state something, doesn't have any bearing as to how consistently the UCI enforces those rules, especially when it comes to downhill.
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kiwi-rider
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kiwi-rider 9/10/2021 7:37pm
9/10/2021 7:37pm
Does anyone have an idea of when Continental is going to release its new range of tyres? Seems like the Atherton Continental team has been running the prototypes for a while now.
1
sambobcat 9/11/2021 5:09am
9/11/2021 5:09am
kiwi-rider wrote:
Does anyone have an idea of when Continental is going to release its new range of tyres? Seems like the Atherton Continental team has been running...
Does anyone have an idea of when Continental is going to release its new range of tyres? Seems like the Atherton Continental team has been running the prototypes for a while now.
I've noticed Ben Cathro running them in his tutorial videos too
1
Primoz
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Primoz 9/11/2021 8:23am
9/11/2021 8:23am
https://www.scor-mtb.com/scr_in_en/

LT and ST version, but they run the same frame - rotate the headset cups, put a 170 mm fork on the ST (instead of the 150) and put a shock with 62,5 mm of stroke instead of the 57,5 mm and you make an LT out of an ST. Or vice versa.

This is a good idea if you ask me, do a 200hr service and you can take out the travel spacer from a Super Deluxe, sell the Pike, put a Lyrik on it and buy 2 airshafts (170 mm and 150 mm) and all it takes to make an LT from an ST (for the France bikepark trip for example) is a 50h fork and a 200h shock service.
baronKanon 9/11/2021 8:33am
9/11/2021 8:33am
And then you come back from the trip and another 200h service to go back
3
Primoz
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Primoz 9/11/2021 11:39am
9/11/2021 11:39am
baronKanon wrote:
And then you come back from the trip and another 200h service to go back
It's likely going to need it anyway Tongue
1
bulletbass man 9/11/2021 3:03pm
9/11/2021 3:03pm
baronKanon wrote:
And then you come back from the trip and another 200h service to go back
Primoz wrote:
It's likely going to need it anyway Tongue
Does the scor accept dual crown? A 180/170 29 dh rig in the summer and a 150 in the winter would be pretty sweet. Probably could just run more pressure in longer stroke shock if you only wanted to change fork.
mfoga
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mfoga 9/11/2021 4:12pm
9/11/2021 4:12pm
Primoz wrote:
https://www.scor-mtb.com/scr_in_en/ LT and ST version, but they run the same frame - rotate the headset cups, put a 170 mm fork on the ST (instead of...
https://www.scor-mtb.com/scr_in_en/

LT and ST version, but they run the same frame - rotate the headset cups, put a 170 mm fork on the ST (instead of the 150) and put a shock with 62,5 mm of stroke instead of the 57,5 mm and you make an LT out of an ST. Or vice versa.

This is a good idea if you ask me, do a 200hr service and you can take out the travel spacer from a Super Deluxe, sell the Pike, put a Lyrik on it and buy 2 airshafts (170 mm and 150 mm) and all it takes to make an LT from an ST (for the France bikepark trip for example) is a 50h fork and a 200h shock service.
Why not get the LT and just get a shorter airshaft for the fork if you want ST. Either way you end up with a longer shock so why go through all the trouble of getting a new fork.
1
hitar_potar 9/12/2021 2:00am
9/12/2021 2:00am
Or you just get a shock with a lock-out switch and there is no need to service the damn thing to change travel. Also a good idea to check if the frame can work with a 65mm stroke shock - they say a 62.5 is needed, but most manufacturers leave some extra space in the linkage that you might use for additional 5-6mm of suspension travel. Smile
Primoz
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Primoz 9/12/2021 8:30am
9/12/2021 8:30am
Primoz wrote:
https://www.scor-mtb.com/scr_in_en/ LT and ST version, but they run the same frame - rotate the headset cups, put a 170 mm fork on the ST (instead of...
https://www.scor-mtb.com/scr_in_en/

LT and ST version, but they run the same frame - rotate the headset cups, put a 170 mm fork on the ST (instead of the 150) and put a shock with 62,5 mm of stroke instead of the 57,5 mm and you make an LT out of an ST. Or vice versa.

This is a good idea if you ask me, do a 200hr service and you can take out the travel spacer from a Super Deluxe, sell the Pike, put a Lyrik on it and buy 2 airshafts (170 mm and 150 mm) and all it takes to make an LT from an ST (for the France bikepark trip for example) is a 50h fork and a 200h shock service.
mfoga wrote:
Why not get the LT and just get a shorter airshaft for the fork if you want ST. Either way you end up with a longer...
Why not get the LT and just get a shorter airshaft for the fork if you want ST. Either way you end up with a longer shock so why go through all the trouble of getting a new fork.
The ST comes with RS suspension, the LT comes with Fox. Therefore personal preference, but yeah, you can go either way.

The 'buy a new fork' part comes from the fact the ST comes with a Pike, that isn't meant to go to 170 mm anymore, while the Lyrik can. You could go for the Zeb, but it probably doesn't make much sense. The Lyrik will probably be fine if you keep it at ST only, but it wouldn't hurt to have a Lyrik on there from the get go.
Primoz
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Primoz 9/12/2021 8:31am
9/12/2021 8:31am
hitar_potar wrote:
Or you just get a shock with a lock-out switch and there is no need to service the damn thing to change travel. Also a good...
Or you just get a shock with a lock-out switch and there is no need to service the damn thing to change travel. Also a good idea to check if the frame can work with a 65mm stroke shock - they say a 62.5 is needed, but most manufacturers leave some extra space in the linkage that you might use for additional 5-6mm of suspension travel. Smile
What does a lockout switch have anything to do with the stroke length of the shock?

As for overstroking it, you'd need to check tyre clearance too.
1
thomas1965
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thomas1965 9/12/2021 9:28pm
9/12/2021 9:28pm
not sure how new this is, but I just noticed the background ad on pinkbike for the shimano EP 8 are on the yeti. cleaned it up a bit with inspect element, I don't think there's really anything new here but I'd imagine showing it this clearly would indicate it'll be formally released soon?
1
sr_34
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sr_34 9/12/2021 9:36pm
9/12/2021 9:36pm
thomas1965 wrote:
not sure how new this is, but I just noticed the background ad on pinkbike for the shimano EP 8 are on the yeti. cleaned it...
not sure how new this is, but I just noticed the background ad on pinkbike for the shimano EP 8 are on the yeti. cleaned it up a bit with inspect element, I don't think there's really anything new here but I'd imagine showing it this clearly would indicate it'll be formally released soon?
Rumor has it that it will be announced this week along with the non motorized bikes, at least that's what my dealer was telling me a couple of weeks ago ... gues we will just have to wait
2
sr_34
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sr_34 9/13/2021 12:08am
9/13/2021 12:08am Edited Date/Time 9/13/2021 12:09am

PB is giving it away ... the website is currently not available
4
Bob Chicken
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Bob Chicken 9/13/2021 3:41am
9/13/2021 3:41am
Click it and you get a 404 error with a nice "you crashed gif"... embargo lifts in a few hours I guess?
melonhead1145 9/13/2021 3:53am
9/13/2021 3:53am
I imagine it will be when all the Americans wake up, so probably in a few hours
ryan_daugherty 9/13/2021 6:56am
9/13/2021 6:56am
melonhead1145 wrote:
I imagine it will be when all the Americans wake up, so probably in a few hours
Still crashed when I clicked it and I just woke up in the state of Oregon.
hitar_potar 9/13/2021 9:22am
9/13/2021 9:22am
hitar_potar wrote:
Or you just get a shock with a lock-out switch and there is no need to service the damn thing to change travel. Also a good...
Or you just get a shock with a lock-out switch and there is no need to service the damn thing to change travel. Also a good idea to check if the frame can work with a 65mm stroke shock - they say a 62.5 is needed, but most manufacturers leave some extra space in the linkage that you might use for additional 5-6mm of suspension travel. Smile
Primoz wrote:
What does a lockout switch have anything to do with the stroke length of the shock? As for overstroking it, you'd need to check tyre clearance...
What does a lockout switch have anything to do with the stroke length of the shock?

As for overstroking it, you'd need to check tyre clearance too.
Well, people are discussing the possibility for shorter travel and longer travel builds and switching between them. I just suggested why not choose just the longer travel with a lock-out?
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