National Champs rumors

bturman
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11/17/2010 7:35pm
thom9719 wrote:
Alright guys, As far as I know, it hasn't been announced where National Champs will be held, so lets hear the speculation on who knows what...
Alright guys,

As far as I know, it hasn't been announced where National Champs will be held, so lets hear the speculation on who knows what. World Champs are in Champery, so lets pick a race that is as different from that as possible to determine who to send Smile

What I've heard (feel free to discuss/correct as required):

-Endurance and gravity are in separate venues. Endurance is held in Sun Valley Idaho.
-It won't be held at Sol Vista
-Northstar supposedly has a bid in for the event
-Port Angeles wants to host a ProGRT again and won't host National Champs/ no 4X course.
-Mammoth has been considered for the venue.

Anyone have any insider information? Where do you want to see it held?

-KT
Dang. No wonder there have been so few bids...
Mike Buell
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11/18/2010 8:16am
bturman wrote:
Schweitzer was gnarly. Remember the big g-out at the bottom of those steep rocks?
Alter Boy!
MinorThreat
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11/18/2010 8:54am
^^ It was actually Altar Boy but Otis the Intern couldn't spell his way out of a paper bag, so the sign on the course said 'Alter Boy' - - which really became an appropriate, if unintentional, play on words. It altered a lot of people over the three years.
11/18/2010 3:44pm
I'm here to post in this very important thread.
sspomer
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11/21/2010 5:28pm
thom9719 wrote:
Alright guys, As far as I know, it hasn't been announced where National Champs will be held, so lets hear the speculation on who knows what...
Alright guys,

As far as I know, it hasn't been announced where National Champs will be held, so lets hear the speculation on who knows what. World Champs are in Champery, so lets pick a race that is as different from that as possible to determine who to send Smile

What I've heard (feel free to discuss/correct as required):

-Endurance and gravity are in separate venues. Endurance is held in Sun Valley Idaho.
-It won't be held at Sol Vista
-Northstar supposedly has a bid in for the event
-Port Angeles wants to host a ProGRT again and won't host National Champs/ no 4X course.
-Mammoth has been considered for the venue.

Anyone have any insider information? Where do you want to see it held?

-KT
bturman wrote:
Dang. No wonder there have been so few bids...
i understand it's a national championship and there are requirements, but the participant #'s quoted in the bid include XC and STXC, yet the bid is for DH/4X/SuperD only. cut #'s in half (probably less than that in reality) and it's a big effort for a handful of racers, eh?

splitting up XC and gravity just seems like a such slap in the face to all of mountain biking...xc or gravity.
11/21/2010 5:36pm
splitting the already shaky race scene is dumbest call yet. What was their reasoning for this. Were they thinking of the bigger picture? They run the sport into the ground and scare away all outside sponsors that used to foot the bill and support the series. NOw they are penalizing the only remaining sponsors and companies that are backing domestic racing. Companies like SRAM, FOX, SHIMANO etc who support both XC and DH are going to have logistical issues and increased costs. Who know the further implications this will have in the long run.
chequamie
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11/21/2010 6:52pm
No one Accuses USAC of Thinking too much
swilson669
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11/21/2010 6:59pm Edited Date/Time 4/21/2016 10:19am
NORTHSTAR. Karp-> Sticks-> Phodog.-> Daytona
Schulze
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11/21/2010 7:18pm
bstens wrote:
I'll say it cause I enjoy it: Bootleg. Snakeback to Reaper. Infrastructure but there's a hike so everyone will complain. Forgive me. I'll go back to...
I'll say it cause I enjoy it: Bootleg. Snakeback to Reaper. Infrastructure but there's a hike so everyone will complain. Forgive me. I'll go back to lurking. How about Pajarito? Lift, infrastructure, people that like to build, teh gnar rox and ghaps, you could even throw in some high speed shimz.
CRAZY IDEA! As a Los Alamos local, I would love nothing more than for this to happen. National Champs Pajarito 2011!
haddad
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11/21/2010 7:30pm
agreed, splitting the event is not a smart idea. national champs promotes the sport as a whole. it allows each disciplined rider to see what other people in the sport are doing. i go and watch short track/xc and they go and watch the dh/4x. it gets some people intrigued with other disciplines. further more, the big sponsors only have to go to one location at one time, if you split the event expect to see a lot less sponsors making it to both events.
sideshow
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11/21/2010 8:49pm
windham...not sure why i didn't go straight to that option. yeah. do it up.

and i agree, no to "splitting".
MinorThreat
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11/21/2010 9:43pm Edited Date/Time 4/21/2016 10:19am
I think they secretly wanted to split it up so that the XCers wouldn't have to race on real mountains with >gasp
thom9719
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11/22/2010 12:04am
Since the XC stuff is already at Sun Valley, is there any hope of the resort putting in a DH course? It's obviously got the elevation and a chairlift, why can't we just add on the DH event? If they don't want to build a 4X track, lets just bring back slalom.

-KT
b1k3r1d3r
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11/22/2010 7:07am
thom9719 wrote:
Since the XC stuff is already at Sun Valley, is there any hope of the resort putting in a DH course? It's obviously got the elevation...
Since the XC stuff is already at Sun Valley, is there any hope of the resort putting in a DH course? It's obviously got the elevation and a chairlift, why can't we just add on the DH event? If they don't want to build a 4X track, lets just bring back slalom.

-KT
best idea yet. Maybe instead of petitioning places to hold a race petitioning usac for venues other than sun valley. We should make it known that these events NEED to be held together. mtn biking is all the disciplines and theres no reason to separate the races. Plus, like mentioned all the sponsors will be pissed and we'll be taking about 4-7 steps backwards in the little amount of progress made in the past few years in us racing.

-faulkner, windham would be awesome but, i think it would be a lot for the town to run the two "most prestigious" (us nats is far from that at this point but a wc is) races of the year.
dgodard
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11/22/2010 8:32am
Unleash the Sol Vista Crew on Sun Valley.

Sun Valley has heaps of potential.
haddad
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11/22/2010 9:11am
just had another thought on the split event, a lot of young kids race both xc and gravity events at national champs. so this would either cause them to chose one discipline or the other, or front the money and time to travel to 2 seperate national champs events. DUMB.
MinorThreat
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11/22/2010 9:47am
Not to mention too that Super-D got split off with Cross Country, so those of us who might want to double up there are screwed too. Why the h*** is Super-D (which is short for Super Downhill) NOT with gravity?
11/22/2010 10:04am
Not to mention too that Super-D got split off with Cross Country, so those of us who might want to double up there are screwed too...
Not to mention too that Super-D got split off with Cross Country, so those of us who might want to double up there are screwed too. Why the h*** is Super-D (which is short for Super Downhill) NOT with gravity?
Because most super-d's are NOT what that genre of sport was created to be=A SUPER DOWNHILL, most I have seen are a glorified short track XC, hardly for the gravity crew.
MinorThreat
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11/22/2010 10:16am
^^ Oh, I know . . . I just lament that having it grouped that way legitimizes USA Cycling's perversion of the event.
sspomer
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11/22/2010 10:42am Edited Date/Time 4/21/2016 10:19am
haddad wrote:
just had another thought on the split event, a lot of young kids race both xc and gravity events at national champs. so this would either...
just had another thought on the split event, a lot of young kids race both xc and gravity events at national champs. so this would either cause them to chose one discipline or the other, or front the money and time to travel to 2 seperate national champs events. DUMB.
yeah, this is what seems like the biggest let down for the cycling community to me. i understand for companies, 2 venues makes things logistically difficult and costly, but it probably forces a lot of racers and racing families to choose one or the other, which doesn't help either side of the sport (xc or gravity).


re: sun valley: do they even have the ability to haul bikes on their chairlifts (hooks, trays etc)? if they don't, then that's a lot of new investment in $$ and focus on their part, not to mention building a quality DH track and even a sub-part 4X track. just too little too late, i'd guess, which is a bummer
thom9719
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11/23/2010 4:15pm
sspomer wrote:
yeah, this is what seems like the biggest let down for the cycling community to me. i understand for companies, 2 venues makes things logistically difficult...
yeah, this is what seems like the biggest let down for the cycling community to me. i understand for companies, 2 venues makes things logistically difficult and costly, but it probably forces a lot of racers and racing families to choose one or the other, which doesn't help either side of the sport (xc or gravity).


re: sun valley: do they even have the ability to haul bikes on their chairlifts (hooks, trays etc)? if they don't, then that's a lot of new investment in $$ and focus on their part, not to mention building a quality DH track and even a sub-part 4X track. just too little too late, i'd guess, which is a bummer
I'm sure hooks can be installed for cheap, DH tracks can be built for cheap, Hell, I'll even voulenteer my time to come do it. 4X is a big expense, but slalom tracks are easy.....

I just can't beleive that DH gets the shaft in all of this. Sun Valley should either have to host the DH aspect as well, or be removed as the venue for the race. I can't believe that USAC would want less sponsors and less attendance than what currently exists.

-KT
zach morris
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11/23/2010 6:02pm
sun valley does have equipped lifts, but no true dh trails on their lift serviced mtn.

due to usfs lease issues, chances of building a new dh trail on the existing lift-serviced mtn by the time of nationals is slim to none.

however, sun valley owns a 600 ft lift-serviced mtn 10 minutes from the XC venue with huge potential that could easily accomodate a mtx course, and a canberra-esque dh course- the ultimate spectator event.

while the top-bottom quad on the mini mtn does not currently have hooks, there are hooks around that could be used.

please feel free to contact me @ tyo.julian@gmail.com if you have any questions related to this post.
11/23/2010 6:45pm
If i was a racer of any sort that paid for a USAC license i would be fuming right now. How can the USAC make decisions without consulting any of their paying members. If every single gravity racer refused to renew their license for 2011 i bet then they would suddenly wake up.

It's bad enough deciding to split the National Champs, as I've mentioned elsewhere but it is a slap in the face when they did it with no viable plan for a DH event or Venue, just expecting it to happen on its own or expecting people to beat a path to its door. People like JDD have enough on their plate with Ltd. resources with the GRT series to now have to try bail out the Nationals situation.

If the situation was reversed and XC was left out in the cold you can bet USAC would be doing a lot more than they are doing right now in securing a DH venue.

Too bad too many people "need" the USAC license to race at GRT and a few other sanctioned events where you need a race license. If only your membership dollars went to an organization that actually catered to the sports needs. With XC getting most of the support and resources " the olympics" excuse is just getting old.

I have dual passport but choose to get my racing license in South Africa, as there the majority of the license fees actually goes to a regional bike club/organizer of your choice or a IMBA like affiliation. The "UCI" part of Cycling South Africa only gets a nominal amount for the paperwork of the license. That way you spend your money where its most beneficial, it also costs less than here and every national (GRT) round is a UCI cat2 event. Still baffling how such a small scene in SA can get its act together and secure their riders with UCI points and rankings and there is no bike industry or chairlifts.

Shit needs to change is USA gravity. And if no new worthy event organizer/venue steps in to save the day i think everyone would be better off letting the Sol Vista Crew host the event again. At least you can be assured it would run smoothly on a fun and challenging track, albeit very different to Champery.
bstens
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11/23/2010 7:29pm
Things I take away from this:
* Not enough people voicing there opinion, 1500 unique racers at 2010 Nationals according to that USAC pdf, and maybe 30 unique people in this conversation.

* Need more diverse responses other than "NORTHSTAR!!!111111!!"

* Less (sorry kyle) "MUST MEET CHAMPERY DIFFICULTY", because honestly, we aren't in the Alps and those conditions are extremely hard to come by.

* USAC basically writing off the US gravity scene, which we have no real basis for this assumption other than the obvious. (What if they have the most dialed shit we've ever seen and just like to make the internet predators sweat?)

* Coming to the realization that previous years memberships haven't benefited me in the slightest. ((or any of you, unless one of you has proof of good useful dollars)(honestly, sounds pretty fucking American, we all throw in the pot, 40 people benefit, with 8 $100 rain jackets, worlds kits, worlds training, olympic training, etc for Worlds and then the whole suffers)) Just sayin, Cat 1 Nationals, I got a 25% off coupon for Jett's 2009 apparel, so that's where my $60 membership went and my $80 race fee. Basically left me saying:
"What race sponsors?"

* There's a lot of complaining (me especially) and a lot of good ideas and points (sven, KT, erik, JDD).

Why can't us gravity guys and gals form our own Coalition and make our own organization (other than the obvious because in reality it would be a huge ordeal and the UCI would go 'Lol Wut?')? I haven't had the opportunity to take part in a GRT yet, 2011's Port Angeles race will be my first chance but I really respect what JDD and the others have done in all their efforts, as an outsider. I'd be willing to give $90 annually, hell even $150 (that's what a pro license is, right?) to fund a legitimate group of like minded riders that have me, us, gravity racers, in their best interests.

In closing, USAC has done nothing obvious to keep me, Bob Racer USA, happy and willing to continue funding their XC / Road masturbation. Let's see a new group--I'll pay more annually if you make me (and hopefully the rest of us) feel like we are funding a group of people that genuinely care.

In reality, this wasn't worth typing, I'll give my hard earned money to USAC, I'll end up complaining about something, someone will call me a whiner and the world will still turn and I'll still listen to Postal Service followed by Slayer
11/23/2010 9:36pm
Nice post ^^^^ a breakaway UCI recognized gravity federation would be ideal. But it would take a dedicated group of individuals that are well versed in all the legal aspects, but yes this is what needs to happen, working alongside and with USAC is just getting DH racing in the USA nowhere, no matter how many times we hear no its going to be better now, so and so really care.

The other option (not for those who need UCI points and race licenses for world cups) is for US open style events where organizers have said screw USAC and they just go about focussing on running the best event they can and use sanction money to attract riders with bigger prize purse and they look to local industry and community for event sponsorship. The Diablo crew have been running their own show quite successfully for ages.

But this is the easy way out i fear and for the long term development of the sport and our junior riders a UCI sanctioned option with UCI point scoring events should be the ultimate goal with or without the current USAC, ive been patient and supportive with them for ten years now and see no improvement. Even Ska Todd has tried.
thom9719
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11/23/2010 10:11pm Edited Date/Time 10/4/2011 5:12pm
I think we just need to be able to hold USA cycling accountable for the gravity aspect of the sport. If that means we need DH represenatives in USAC, then so be it. If sponsors, teams, resorts, media, race promoters, and riders don't like what USAC is doing, then it seems like some stuff should be changing.

-How much money does USAC recieve from gravity race fees/licences?

-How much money does USAC recieve from endurance fees/licences?

-Now, how much support does each discipline recieve in return?

-What happens to the money that the major sponsors put into USAC? (if you look at their website, you'll see they list Dow Chemical, Gatorade, Nike, etc)
I'm all for supporting the olympic pursuits of the sport, however, there still needs to be continued support for the rest of the "members" of USAC.

I see stories like this on thier website: http://usacycling.org/news/user/story.php?id=5658 USAC is supporting a U23 development cyclocross program and sending cyclocross riders to Belgium to train? How many cyclcross riders are there? why are they recieving this support and gravity racing can't even get a venue for the biggest race in the country?

Trying to start a new governing body, or not having USAC/UCI points races isn't helping us in anyway. We need to step up and make some noise and let USAC understand that this is NOT an acceptable way to handle the gravity aspects of this sport. We are the most marketable aspect, why can't USAC understand this and take advantage of it?

Who at USAC is in charge of the National Champs location decision? JDD/anyone? I think it's time to start making some noise and getting some return for the thousands of dollars we pour into USAC every year.

-KT
Dylan Dean
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11/23/2010 10:26pm
I'm at a resturaunt/bar trying to destress, then I check my emails and see this discussion again. Stressed again! Lol Although we are steadily getting off subject just slightly, I'll reply to it all when I get a Chance to read through again at home. Ill be the devils advocate here. So will try and explain what I can ...at least seen through my eyes. If u have any questions or thoughts, ask away.
thom9719
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11/23/2010 10:33pm
Thanks JDD, look forward to your thoughts.
11/23/2010 11:05pm
Amen to bigger prize purses and money going back into organizations like IMBA. I WILL NOT be renewing my USAC license for the year 2011. We need to stick it to the man. "Someone" is making out like a bandit here, and I refuse to contribute the little money I have to "someone" that does not support the gravity side of our sport. I guess it's all Southridge and Woodward races for me next year; sorry Colorado.

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