MTB Tech Rumors and Innovation

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2/18/2021 10:42pm Edited Date/Time 2/18/2021 11:02pm
Finally.
https://www.maxxis.com/catalog/tire-593-140-shorty-gen-2

Who knows when retailers will actually have them though.
Disappointed to not see any MAXX GRIP EXO/EXO+ casing options.
Would be a great PNW daily driver tire for many.



2
2/18/2021 11:06pm
Finally. https://www.maxxis.com/catalog/tire-593-140-shorty-gen-2 Who knows when retailers will actually have them though. Disappointed to not see any MAXX GRIP EXO/EXO+ casing options. Would be a great PNW...
Finally.
https://www.maxxis.com/catalog/tire-593-140-shorty-gen-2

Who knows when retailers will actually have them though.
Disappointed to not see any MAXX GRIP EXO/EXO+ casing options.
Would be a great PNW daily driver tire for many.



Why do you say that? On the website it says maxx terra and maxx grip, trail enduro and Dh options available. That should be exo/exo+, DD and Dh casings.
Primoz
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2/18/2021 11:14pm
If you look at the list of models, it's EXO, DD and DH.
2/18/2021 11:16pm
Primoz wrote:
If you look at the list of models, it's EXO, DD and DH.
With EXO being offered in Maxx Terra
krabo83
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AT
2/19/2021 12:04am
Finally. https://www.maxxis.com/catalog/tire-593-140-shorty-gen-2 Who knows when retailers will actually have them though. Disappointed to not see any MAXX GRIP EXO/EXO+ casing options. Would be a great PNW...
Finally.
https://www.maxxis.com/catalog/tire-593-140-shorty-gen-2

Who knows when retailers will actually have them though.
Disappointed to not see any MAXX GRIP EXO/EXO+ casing options.
Would be a great PNW daily driver tire for many.



can‘t really see any difference to the old shorty?!
Eoin
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FR
Fantasy
2/19/2021 1:42am
Primoz wrote:
If you look at the list of models, it's EXO, DD and DH.
baronKanon wrote:
With EXO being offered in Maxx Terra
Issue to me is that the DD option is only 70g lighter than DH, so kinda redundant. Either make the DD a touch lighter or make the DH bombproof.
2/19/2021 2:31am
Finally. https://www.maxxis.com/catalog/tire-593-140-shorty-gen-2 Who knows when retailers will actually have them though. Disappointed to not see any MAXX GRIP EXO/EXO+ casing options. Would be a great PNW...
Finally.
https://www.maxxis.com/catalog/tire-593-140-shorty-gen-2

Who knows when retailers will actually have them though.
Disappointed to not see any MAXX GRIP EXO/EXO+ casing options.
Would be a great PNW daily driver tire for many.



Simplifying their options makes a lot of sense, but thats too simple IMHO

Its a wet condition tyre, I'd only offer it in maxxgrip, DH/DD/Exo+ casing in 29 & 27.5
metadave
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Revelstoke, BC CA
Fantasy
2/19/2021 7:11am
Go shorty... It's ya' birthday....
11
2/19/2021 8:30am
Primoz wrote:
If you look at the list of models, it's EXO, DD and DH.
baronKanon wrote:
With EXO being offered in Maxx Terra
Eoin wrote:
Issue to me is that the DD option is only 70g lighter than DH, so kinda redundant. Either make the DD a touch lighter or make...
Issue to me is that the DD option is only 70g lighter than DH, so kinda redundant. Either make the DD a touch lighter or make the DH bombproof.
While the weights are similar, the tire feel is quite different between the two. We've tried to consolidate/cut DD in the past but it's the preferred casing of many of our enduro athletes. Some opt to run full DH casings for enduro, but most want DD.

DD uses two layers of 120 TPI casing while DH uses two layers of 60 TPI casing. The butyl sidewall insert also extends farther up the sidewall on DH tires compared to DD giving more casing rigidity/stability.

Horses for courses and all that.
7
Whattheheel
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Location
Spearfish, SD US
2/19/2021 8:52am
Finally. https://www.maxxis.com/catalog/tire-593-140-shorty-gen-2 Who knows when retailers will actually have them though. Disappointed to not see any MAXX GRIP EXO/EXO+ casing options. Would be a great PNW...
Finally.
https://www.maxxis.com/catalog/tire-593-140-shorty-gen-2

Who knows when retailers will actually have them though.
Disappointed to not see any MAXX GRIP EXO/EXO+ casing options.
Would be a great PNW daily driver tire for many.



I ordered in some for the shop I am at about 2 weeks ago from Q, they are prolly still there this time of the year.
2/19/2021 10:33am
Why do you say that? On the website it says maxx terra and maxx grip, trail enduro and Dh options available. That should be exo/exo+, DD...
Why do you say that? On the website it says maxx terra and maxx grip, trail enduro and Dh options available. That should be exo/exo+, DD and Dh casings.
As has been pointed out. The MAXX Grip compound is only in DD and DH casings.
Would be good to see that compound in an EXO or EXO+ option.

While the "Shorty" has been thought of as a mud tire in that pas, I think that will change with this new one.
It's a loose conditions tire. Dry or wet. Loris and Greg raced it in the dry multiple times this year.

The knob height is not really a 'spike' tire. So it would be great to run up front for those who ride in loose/soft conditions year round. Whether that be mud or dust/loam. Which is why it would be great to see it in a more trail/pedal friendly casing like EXO or EXO+. Shorty2 up front and DHR2 out back would be a killer setup and one that a lot of enduro and DH racers ran this summer. Or go Shorty2 front and rear if hard pack braking is less of a concern.

Lastly, these tire manufactures need to account for the growing popularity of inserts. Trail riders have desire for their trail casings in the sticky rubber to run with inserts year round. That said, Maxxis developing an insert or something, so they may not want to cater to people running inserts at this point.

Primoz
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2/19/2021 11:07am
What would be amazing is a 3C compound that doesn't crumble in the cold so we could run it year round. I put a DC Assegai up front just to save my 3C for a grand total of 2 rides (when it was really cold, there has been more snow this year than last year) and it's horrible on wet roots Smile
2/19/2021 12:27pm
Primoz wrote:
What would be amazing is a 3C compound that doesn't crumble in the cold so we could run it year round. I put a DC Assegai...
What would be amazing is a 3C compound that doesn't crumble in the cold so we could run it year round. I put a DC Assegai up front just to save my 3C for a grand total of 2 rides (when it was really cold, there has been more snow this year than last year) and it's horrible on wet roots Smile
Yeah but if it was made to work in extreme cold temps it wouldn't work as well in the summer.
Primoz
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2/19/2021 12:38pm
Apparently Conti's Black Chilli is one of the very few compounds that is soft in the summer and more or less works in the winter. And I think the same has been said for some Specialized compounds, that were supposedly copied (by stealing the BlackChilli designer) from Conti.

And made work is something completely different to crumble. Last year in January I was missing at least half the side knobs in my 3C HR2 which was perfectly fine up through novembre for example. But last winter was pretty dry and cold, so this was a factor in this.

I'm well aware the shore hardness would probably have to go down to something like 30 with the base compound getting softer too to prevent tearing, which would of course make the compounds gooey in the summer, but supposedly it can be (or could have been) done. But honestly I haven't ridden the black chilly stuff, Der Baron is a mid spike tyre that appears to be useless for our terrain while Der Kaiser is supposedly quite skittish.

On another note I have shredded a 3C HR2 in the rear in like a month or two in 2015 (causing me to exclusively ride DC tyres in the rear), while, interestingly, a few friends rode a DHR2 3C in the rear for a whole season (last year) under similar conditions (mix of asphalt, gravel and trails). How much of this is influenced by the tread or has the 3C been improved in this regard? I'm talking about the MaxxTerra compound and EXO casings.
2/19/2021 2:50pm
While everyone’s talking about tires... there were some clear shots of the new ethirteen grappler aka assegai in remy’s most recent video.


1
2/19/2021 3:44pm
While the weights are similar, the tire feel is quite different between the two. We've tried to consolidate/cut DD in the past but it's the preferred...
While the weights are similar, the tire feel is quite different between the two. We've tried to consolidate/cut DD in the past but it's the preferred casing of many of our enduro athletes. Some opt to run full DH casings for enduro, but most want DD.

DD uses two layers of 120 TPI casing while DH uses two layers of 60 TPI casing. The butyl sidewall insert also extends farther up the sidewall on DH tires compared to DD giving more casing rigidity/stability.

Horses for courses and all that.
I would be lost without DD. Favorite casing of all time for up/down east coast chunk. Just adding one more vote to please please please keep it around.
2/19/2021 8:06pm
Primoz wrote:
Apparently Conti's Black Chilli is one of the very few compounds that is soft in the summer and more or less works in the winter. And...
Apparently Conti's Black Chilli is one of the very few compounds that is soft in the summer and more or less works in the winter. And I think the same has been said for some Specialized compounds, that were supposedly copied (by stealing the BlackChilli designer) from Conti.

And made work is something completely different to crumble. Last year in January I was missing at least half the side knobs in my 3C HR2 which was perfectly fine up through novembre for example. But last winter was pretty dry and cold, so this was a factor in this.

I'm well aware the shore hardness would probably have to go down to something like 30 with the base compound getting softer too to prevent tearing, which would of course make the compounds gooey in the summer, but supposedly it can be (or could have been) done. But honestly I haven't ridden the black chilly stuff, Der Baron is a mid spike tyre that appears to be useless for our terrain while Der Kaiser is supposedly quite skittish.

On another note I have shredded a 3C HR2 in the rear in like a month or two in 2015 (causing me to exclusively ride DC tyres in the rear), while, interestingly, a few friends rode a DHR2 3C in the rear for a whole season (last year) under similar conditions (mix of asphalt, gravel and trails). How much of this is influenced by the tread or has the 3C been improved in this regard? I'm talking about the MaxxTerra compound and EXO casings.
Conti stuff is pretty decent in winter if you aren’t too far below freezing. But it’s still noticeably different feeling at freezing and pretty much as bad as anyone else if it’s truly cold.
nollak
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DE
2/20/2021 12:13am
Primoz wrote:
Apparently Conti's Black Chilli is one of the very few compounds that is soft in the summer and more or less works in the winter. And...
Apparently Conti's Black Chilli is one of the very few compounds that is soft in the summer and more or less works in the winter. And I think the same has been said for some Specialized compounds, that were supposedly copied (by stealing the BlackChilli designer) from Conti.

And made work is something completely different to crumble. Last year in January I was missing at least half the side knobs in my 3C HR2 which was perfectly fine up through novembre for example. But last winter was pretty dry and cold, so this was a factor in this.

I'm well aware the shore hardness would probably have to go down to something like 30 with the base compound getting softer too to prevent tearing, which would of course make the compounds gooey in the summer, but supposedly it can be (or could have been) done. But honestly I haven't ridden the black chilly stuff, Der Baron is a mid spike tyre that appears to be useless for our terrain while Der Kaiser is supposedly quite skittish.

On another note I have shredded a 3C HR2 in the rear in like a month or two in 2015 (causing me to exclusively ride DC tyres in the rear), while, interestingly, a few friends rode a DHR2 3C in the rear for a whole season (last year) under similar conditions (mix of asphalt, gravel and trails). How much of this is influenced by the tread or has the 3C been improved in this regard? I'm talking about the MaxxTerra compound and EXO casings.
Conti stuff is pretty decent in winter if you aren’t too far below freezing. But it’s still noticeably different feeling at freezing and pretty much as...
Conti stuff is pretty decent in winter if you aren’t too far below freezing. But it’s still noticeably different feeling at freezing and pretty much as bad as anyone else if it’s truly cold.
Yes, when getting really cold it's a bit sketchy with the Conti stuff but I think I would have not been able to ride my new bike as much without those tires. Buddy of mine was pretty lost when we did the first ride in the snow this year and switch to Baron/Kaiser combo on his bike afterwards. I think I never saw him riding anything else then Maxxis before and he is pretty happy with the combo.

I hear that a lot that with the Baron but I really like that tire on the front all year round. Rode it on pretty packed bikepark tracks and on loose stuff aswell on a 3,5 weeks roadtrip through the alps last summer. Felt always great but I rode that tire on different bikes since it's inception as Rain King on my DH bike so im used to it.

Think I will ride the Baron/Kaiser combo throughout the year but that is mostly accounted to my lazyness when it comes to changing tires Wink
madsam9
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IT
2/20/2021 12:15am
Primoz wrote:
Apparently Conti's Black Chilli is one of the very few compounds that is soft in the summer and more or less works in the winter. And...
Apparently Conti's Black Chilli is one of the very few compounds that is soft in the summer and more or less works in the winter. And I think the same has been said for some Specialized compounds, that were supposedly copied (by stealing the BlackChilli designer) from Conti.

And made work is something completely different to crumble. Last year in January I was missing at least half the side knobs in my 3C HR2 which was perfectly fine up through novembre for example. But last winter was pretty dry and cold, so this was a factor in this.

I'm well aware the shore hardness would probably have to go down to something like 30 with the base compound getting softer too to prevent tearing, which would of course make the compounds gooey in the summer, but supposedly it can be (or could have been) done. But honestly I haven't ridden the black chilly stuff, Der Baron is a mid spike tyre that appears to be useless for our terrain while Der Kaiser is supposedly quite skittish.

On another note I have shredded a 3C HR2 in the rear in like a month or two in 2015 (causing me to exclusively ride DC tyres in the rear), while, interestingly, a few friends rode a DHR2 3C in the rear for a whole season (last year) under similar conditions (mix of asphalt, gravel and trails). How much of this is influenced by the tread or has the 3C been improved in this regard? I'm talking about the MaxxTerra compound and EXO casings.
I had a similar experience last year with a maxxterra DD High Roller 2, it lasted less than 2 months. I think it's because of the pattern, the knobs are small and tall and they deform more than a Minion. That said I'd still ride a dual compound DD if they made one (and no, the Aggressor doesn't count)
Primoz
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2/20/2021 1:38am
Yeah, this is the totally weird part to me too, the DD casing sounds like it's perfect for rear duties, but only comes in 3C compounds (bar the Aggressor, as you said). Opportunity lost? Though I haven't been as impressed with the DD durability as I would have thought I would be before trying one out...

As for cold performance, yeah, of course everything will get hard (unless you use health questionable compounds in the top echelons of motorsport that have since been banned, but I digress, also, cue Chris Harris), I'd just like it not to crumble away in a few weeks when it was perfectly fine before the cold :/

Again, it's not about how well it works, it's about it not disintegrating. In the mean time a DC rear tyre was perfectly fine in the rear, so it is a 3C specific problem or at least appears so.

As for treads, yeah, HR seems to be an issue here, but speaking about the Minions, I tore up a 3C DHF in the FRONT in just a bit longer than it took me to destroy a 3C HR2 in the rear. The cut blocks on the sides tore up. Sure it gives great progression but it also gives 'great' (as in large) tyre wear Smile
3
2/20/2021 6:45am
Primoz wrote:
Apparently Conti's Black Chilli is one of the very few compounds that is soft in the summer and more or less works in the winter. And...
Apparently Conti's Black Chilli is one of the very few compounds that is soft in the summer and more or less works in the winter. And I think the same has been said for some Specialized compounds, that were supposedly copied (by stealing the BlackChilli designer) from Conti.

And made work is something completely different to crumble. Last year in January I was missing at least half the side knobs in my 3C HR2 which was perfectly fine up through novembre for example. But last winter was pretty dry and cold, so this was a factor in this.

I'm well aware the shore hardness would probably have to go down to something like 30 with the base compound getting softer too to prevent tearing, which would of course make the compounds gooey in the summer, but supposedly it can be (or could have been) done. But honestly I haven't ridden the black chilly stuff, Der Baron is a mid spike tyre that appears to be useless for our terrain while Der Kaiser is supposedly quite skittish.

On another note I have shredded a 3C HR2 in the rear in like a month or two in 2015 (causing me to exclusively ride DC tyres in the rear), while, interestingly, a few friends rode a DHR2 3C in the rear for a whole season (last year) under similar conditions (mix of asphalt, gravel and trails). How much of this is influenced by the tread or has the 3C been improved in this regard? I'm talking about the MaxxTerra compound and EXO casings.
Conti stuff is pretty decent in winter if you aren’t too far below freezing. But it’s still noticeably different feeling at freezing and pretty much as...
Conti stuff is pretty decent in winter if you aren’t too far below freezing. But it’s still noticeably different feeling at freezing and pretty much as bad as anyone else if it’s truly cold.
nollak wrote:
Yes, when getting really cold it's a bit sketchy with the Conti stuff but I think I would have not been able to ride my new...
Yes, when getting really cold it's a bit sketchy with the Conti stuff but I think I would have not been able to ride my new bike as much without those tires. Buddy of mine was pretty lost when we did the first ride in the snow this year and switch to Baron/Kaiser combo on his bike afterwards. I think I never saw him riding anything else then Maxxis before and he is pretty happy with the combo.

I hear that a lot that with the Baron but I really like that tire on the front all year round. Rode it on pretty packed bikepark tracks and on loose stuff aswell on a 3,5 weeks roadtrip through the alps last summer. Felt always great but I rode that tire on different bikes since it's inception as Rain King on my DH bike so im used to it.

Think I will ride the Baron/Kaiser combo throughout the year but that is mostly accounted to my lazyness when it comes to changing tires Wink
I like Kaiser front baron rear. I like the on/off cornering of the Kaiser in front with the added braking and dampening of the heavy casing. The baron is super predictable in back and accelerates well when standing and smashing pedals. I ride baron front and rear on my hardtail.

Gonna have to try the new shortys though. Will put them in the hardtail first. Gonna borrow a buddies wheel set to a/b if I can.
senorbanana
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San Jose, CA US
2/20/2021 9:20am
Found this on insta, spy shots of a unknown frame, photos taken at Magglingen in Biel Switzerland



5
Primoz
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SI
2/20/2021 9:39am
Dual short links, co-rotating. Dat seat tube angle though...
nollak
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77
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Location
DE
2/20/2021 9:53am
That head tube looks massive!

Colour looks like the current YT bikes. New Capra maybe? Although a lot of manufacturers currently have a similar colour in their lineup so I might be completely off.
2/20/2021 10:34am
Found this on insta, spy shots of a unknown frame, photos taken at Magglingen in Biel Switzerland [img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2021/02/20/10522/s1200_IMG_E1195.jpg[/img] [img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2021/02/20/10523/s1200_IMG_E1196.jpg[/img] [img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2021/02/20/10521/s1200_IMG_E1197.jpg[/img]
Found this on insta, spy shots of a unknown frame, photos taken at Magglingen in Biel Switzerland



It’s the new specialised Enduro.
1
Primoz
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8/1/2009
Location
SI
2/20/2021 10:54am
No to both, even more so for the Enduro than the YT. The suspension system doesn't fit either brand. But I'd see YT moving to a dual short link layout much sooner than I would Specialized.
2
AndehM
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Location
El Granada, CA US
Fantasy
2/20/2021 12:17pm
Definitely not Spec - no SWAT box, and using Maxxis tires.
Who else besides Forbidden have the funky oval seat tube with the clamp at the front? Are the house brand grips/saddle/stem recognizable?
1
cebe
Posts
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10/22/2013
Location
SI
2/20/2021 1:16pm
Spec. Power ARC Pro Elaston saddle, Spec. Zee Cage, Ohlins f/r, stem looks the same as Spec use it... could be Spec, I think.
Big Bird
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Oceano, CA US
2/20/2021 1:19pm
AndehM wrote:
Definitely not Spec - no SWAT box, and using Maxxis tires. Who else besides Forbidden have the funky oval seat tube with the clamp at the...
Definitely not Spec - no SWAT box, and using Maxxis tires.
Who else besides Forbidden have the funky oval seat tube with the clamp at the front? Are the house brand grips/saddle/stem recognizable?
Spec does.
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