@TheSuspensionLabNZ I actually did listen to Darren's podcast and now that you mention it, he did say that people complaining of harsh suspension have reported positive...
@TheSuspensionLabNZ I actually did listen to Darren's podcast and now that you mention it, he did say that people complaining of harsh suspension have reported positive results by increasing the pressure, pulling them out from the deeper end of the travel into a softer part of the spring.
Anywho, Pinkbike has a patent article where it's possible to see Ohlin's patent for air spring volume variation based on a bladder and air pressure around it. The story here is that it's done via a change of damping oil volume (through a worm screw and piston mechanism). I haven't gone into the depths of it in detail yet to fully understand it, but what I saw at first (with just a quick look at the pictures) is that you could do a triple chamber arrangement of the air spring in a shock similar to what Runt does by using a bladder in a dual walled aircan (similar to what we used to have with Monarch's DebonAir, what the Float X2 uses, what Fox used to do with the XV aircan, etc.
Doesn’t DVO do a similar thing with their Topaz, with a bladder in the piggyback that is countered by an adjustable Amount pressure around it, thereby...
Doesn’t DVO do a similar thing with their Topaz, with a bladder in the piggyback that is countered by an adjustable Amount pressure around it, thereby changing the progression curve to allow the shock to work with both linear or progressive frame kinematics?
Possibly, but I'd hazzard a guess that the effect won't be very noticeable.
The air pressure in the piggyback will squeeze the oil less or more...
Possibly, but I'd hazzard a guess that the effect won't be very noticeable.
The air pressure in the piggyback will squeeze the oil less or more (depending on the pressure) and it will oppose any additional oil from getting into the piggyback. The oil will be getting into it through stroke events since more of the damper shaft will enter the damping system - that's why you need an IFP (or bladder) in your shock, that's why RS uses a bladder and Fox used to use a bladder (still does on the FiT4 IIRC) and a spring loaded IFP on the newer forks - you need to have an allowance for the change of volume in the system and oil having to go somewhere. Forks used to run on emulsion (Motion control) and air compressing in the emulsion would take care of that.
Now, to finish my long-winded point, the effective leverage ratio (the amount of oil going into the piggyback) and the resultant change in pressure and the resultant 'spring force from the damper' is very small compared to the actual force of the spring itself. You can usually squeeze the air shock with no aircan together by hand if you put some effort into it - you're squeezing the air chamber in the piggyback (or behind the IFP in the lower part of the shock). That's the amount of force it produces.
One sidenote here is the Intend Hover shock. The positive air chamber in fact IS the 'behind-the-IFP-or-in-the-piggyback' chamber with a classical negative chamber and a damper in between. But his shock is designed in such a way that it drives a lot more oil in the damper to effectively have a lower leverage ratio and thus have a big enough effect to act as a useable spring.
I have the bladder conversion on my double barrel air and sure maybe it was placebo effect but I found the difference on fatigue was noticable (tested against another to make sure my 300$ experiment was worth it) compared to the IFP. The O-ring on the ifp's breakaway with 200+ psi behind it just needs push back to move than compressing the bladder even if it's slight.
That I can believe. My point was more along the lines that with a classical shock design, you won't be pushing enough oil to produce a meaningful spring rate without insanely high pressures.
Your break away was high but you could still compress it by hand with no air can on it?
Bikecheck of Greg Williamson's Commencal coming on Pinkbike with all the Details of the new 40 and X2
[img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2020/03/27/9389/s1200_p6pb18439940.jpg[/img]
[img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2020/03/27/9390/s1200_p6pb18439919.jpg[/img]
Bikecheck of Greg Williamson's Commencal coming on Pinkbike with all the Details of the new 40 and X2
Gwin (Kenda) running blacked-out Maxxis Dissector out back. Is running the proto Kenda on the front wheel however. Probably just doing tire testing but man that's pretty obvious with that follow shot! hah https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMzDkEnKeFc
Bikecheck of Greg Williamson's Commencal coming on Pinkbike with all the Details of the new 40 and X2
[img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2020/03/27/9389/s1200_p6pb18439940.jpg[/img]
[img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2020/03/27/9390/s1200_p6pb18439919.jpg[/img]
Bikecheck of Greg Williamson's Commencal coming on Pinkbike with all the Details of the new 40 and X2
That colour combo is gorgeous. It looks like the fork Kashima is the same darkness as the shock, as opposed to the older, lighter coloured coating.
any info is this is the official 2021 X2? I'm getting a bike built up with an X2, and apparently it is not coming until the 2021 launches in may.
It'd be hard to achieve it from the top. One thing I was thinking about is a gutter in the lower going behind the bushings. That way, when you wheelie your bike, the oil will flow to the oil seals and foam rings. Behind the bushing instead of through it.
Miiiight only be some streghtening on the least visible part of the fork... But it would be awesome to have a pump implemented.
It'd be hard to achieve it from the top. One thing I was thinking about is a gutter in the lower going behind the bushings. That...
It'd be hard to achieve it from the top. One thing I was thinking about is a gutter in the lower going behind the bushings. That way, when you wheelie your bike, the oil will flow to the oil seals and foam rings. Behind the bushing instead of through it.
Miiiight only be some streghtening on the least visible part of the fork... But it would be awesome to have a pump implemented.
Never underestimate an engineer, until you have to just laugh and correct his design. It could still happen.
I wrote half of the thing i was thinking about again... 'From the top' was meant as in the buttons being sort of a pump, that's why I said it'd be hard to achieve it from the top. If you had like 50 ml of oil in the lowers and a button acting as a pump with a channel/pipe to the top of the lowers, you could pump it up that way. So it wouldn't be automatic, but better than nothing...
Now that I can see the whole thing I definitely dont think it's a recirculation system. Definitely cool to have the bleeder tech from the 40 coming into other models though.
MIght even just be a cosmetically pleasing strengthening rib put there to prevent the bleedport mounting cylinder (int he casting) from breaking of or something similar.
I don't know what it's like with metal castings, but plastic injection molding i know you want to have the cross sections in the part as constant as possible to improve the filling process during molten material injection (prevent any bottlenecks in the flow) and to prevent as much deformation during shrinkage as possible.
Am I the only one who is rolling his eyes at the industry's April Fools ”jokes” of every year? They are cringe-worthy like few other things...
Am I the only one who is rolling his eyes at the industry's April Fools ”jokes” of every year? They are cringe-worthy like few other things...
If it was only just the industry... But regarding the industry, there's an article on our local site that the Lošinj world cup could be moved to Slovenia (Trbovlje). Didn't even blink until a friend of mine told me it's April 1st...
That is the 36, they are releasing a new chassis on that as well.
Some of the commenters on that article also pointed out that Matt is running a suspiciously high air pressure for somebody his size, and there appears to be some sort of valve or knob on the bottom on the spring-side leg. I wonder if Fox might be moving to a coil negative with preload adjuster like DVO's OTT?
Some of the commenters on that article also pointed out that Matt is running a suspiciously high air pressure for somebody his size, and there appears...
Some of the commenters on that article also pointed out that Matt is running a suspiciously high air pressure for somebody his size, and there appears to be some sort of valve or knob on the bottom on the spring-side leg. I wonder if Fox might be moving to a coil negative with preload adjuster like DVO's OTT?
This may also imply an air cartridge inside the fork with smaller piston size, which will imply a higher pressure. I cannot see that this is desirable, as that will also put a lot of load on the seals. But I guess Fox have done their math and tested the system properly.
When is not-Sea Otter (so they can release the $**t)
Only circling back here to say Fox has a patent on the oil re-circulation you guys are describing (I found it this morning) and because MRP basically trolled me I will be buying one of their forks.
I wonder if the stanchion is longer on the air side to allow for a larger negative air chamber and positive air chamber without making it to progressive, hence the difference in length at the base of the lower legs.
Only circling back here to say Fox has a patent on the oil re-circulation you guys are describing (I found it this morning) and because MRP...
Only circling back here to say Fox has a patent on the oil re-circulation you guys are describing (I found it this morning) and because MRP basically trolled me I will be buying one of their forks.
Back to the shadowy shadows I go.
Do share the patent please. And step out of the shadows, I think your writings are worth more than other peoples mumbling that you're mumbling on the Internet.
Only circling back here to say Fox has a patent on the oil re-circulation you guys are describing (I found it this morning) and because MRP...
Only circling back here to say Fox has a patent on the oil re-circulation you guys are describing (I found it this morning) and because MRP basically trolled me I will be buying one of their forks.
Do share the patent please. And step out of the shadows, I think your writings are worth more than other peoples mumbling that you're mumbling on...
Do share the patent please. And step out of the shadows, I think your writings are worth more than other peoples mumbling that you're mumbling on the Internet.
yeah, WTF man, It was nice to have your input on here.
Your break away was high but you could still compress it by hand with no air can on it?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMzDkEnKeFc
any info is this is the official 2021 X2? I'm getting a bike built up with an X2, and apparently it is not coming until the 2021 launches in may.
https://shop.ridefox.com/products/overland-tailgate-pad?variant=3294648…
Miiiight only be some streghtening on the least visible part of the fork... But it would be awesome to have a pump implemented.
I wrote half of the thing i was thinking about again... 'From the top' was meant as in the buttons being sort of a pump, that's why I said it'd be hard to achieve it from the top. If you had like 50 ml of oil in the lowers and a button acting as a pump with a channel/pipe to the top of the lowers, you could pump it up that way. So it wouldn't be automatic, but better than nothing...
This is how the ridge around the bleed ports looks like. Supposedly it's still a 36.
I don't know what it's like with metal castings, but plastic injection molding i know you want to have the cross sections in the part as constant as possible to improve the filling process during molten material injection (prevent any bottlenecks in the flow) and to prevent as much deformation during shrinkage as possible.
I hate april fools.
https://www.pinkbike.com/news/bike-check-matt-walkers-pivot-switchblade…
When is not-Sea Otter (so they can release the $**t)
Back to the shadowy shadows I go.
Old:
https://cdn.bike24.net/i/mb/78/53/fc/333511-01-d-702162.jpg
New:
https://ep1.pinkbike.org/p6pb18458946/p6pb18458946.jpg