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We thought about this, and it is a good concern to bring up. In a perfect world, VitalMTB would test different suspension systems on the exact same reach measurements. Or different reach measurements on the same suspension platform. Since that perfect test will probably never happen, the reality is that we're going to have a range of sizing in these tests. Especially now, with shorter seatposts and longer dropper post options, there are lots of people that 'size up' and try more stable/longer bikes. That bigger option might be perfect for riders, or it might not, and the Ibis sizing...

That's a real test right there, well appreciated!

I think there is a big difference between a classic 120F-120R Trailbike and a modern one with 140F-120R. It's not just the fork, when you have All-Mountain geometry, All-mountain tires, and All-Mountain weight you have an All-Mountain Bike with a bit less travel on the rear.

Can't hit the thumbs up button enough, Mike.

Also, if we can get 250 people to pre-order and pay in full. I'm sure we could build a Phantom V3 frame that weighs in at only 2.5lbs including shock and axle. Same geo and everything. Only caveat is this frame will only come with a 7 day warranty, and High School NICA rules will be enforced. Both wheel's must stay on the ground at all times. If you so much as pop a wheelie you will be disqualified, and your warranty void. On the plus side though, you could run over the frame with your enduro bike, and just...

Very well said Noah, and fully agree. I believe it was Graves who was once quoted at an enduro race saying something along the lines of. You get to choose the parts you put on your bike, parts you trust, you don't get to choose the wight of the bike using those parts. I can't speak for all the bikes in this test, but since I was personally responsible for picking the spec. on the Banshee Phantom, I feel relatively qualified to offer a little insight on that one. Is it all based on cost vs. weight? Not exactly. Especially...

My advice to people: do not weigh your bikes - unless you're trying to build up a hill-climb specific bike. There have been a lot of tests and studies about bike weight, and the consensus is, it doesn't matter nearly as much as people think it does. For some reason, we all still think trail bikes should be ~28lbs, it's been that number for as long as I can remember. It was that number when I worked at shops - before we had dropper posts and tire choices beyond: folding, wire bead, or DH. When forks had 30 or 32mm...

@hamncheez, what enduro bike do you have?

I kind of touched on this below. I do agree the bikes are heavier than we'd like to see, but the truth is these bikes are still running the same parts as your heavier longer travel bike such as... Tires; you could get away with EXO, but with less travel its arguable (especially in the desert) you need more tire to keep from flatting! I know I would Rims to accommodate said tires (30mm internal width, designed to handle abuse) Fork chassis that are 35mm(ish) Real brakes (the Banshee had DH brakes; and why not!? You are still going fast)...

^this - like the vid said, for pumpy, fast, flowing terrain, the aggressive 120mm bikes shine. 160mm bikes aren't as playful in such terrain. actual XC bikes (or downc&%$try) aren't there in the geo department or "stoutness" either. seat tubes are often to the moon on XC bikes, too.

Having ridden this type of bike, its not just weight, its the feel the bike gives the rider. Put another way, one could argue having a 500 horse power trophy truck is just the same as having a 500 horsepower sports car in that they are both fast. ...but one will handle very different from the other. In this case, I'd suggest a 6" travel enduro bike is kind of like a rally car whereas these are more like sports cars. You get more feedback, and a different experience on trail with less travel. I love it for a lot...

Sorry, but no. This is the same old adage of people going "VPP has this type of leverage ratio curve (the upside down U)". As we've seen in the current crop of VPP bikes, this is not true. There is a reason the engineers at SC designed the old VPP stuff this way, just like there is a reason Ibis has gone with the leverage curve above. It really has more to do with how the curve works with an air shock paired with your average noodling dentist As far as Giant's DH bike, I'm not sure why they...

Eh, I'll disagree with that. While it is somewhat progressive in the first part of the travel, the ultimate leverage ratio curve is one that is fairly linear by today's standards. What this means is the bike will be somewhat supple off the top while holding the rider in the middle of the stroke in less-than-aggressive situations. However, when a rider starts pushing the bike, the rider will find the suspension to be a bit over zealous to rider input. There is no getting around the starting leverage ratio vs ending leverage ratio no matter what the curve looks like...

My 27.5 "Enduro" bike is proudly 37.4lbs with coil F&R suspension. My former 2020 SC AXS X01 Reserve Hightower was 34.3# with trail casing tires. Don't believe published weights.

Jeff, slow people don't need heavy tires, strong wheels, or real brakes. This, in turn, makes their bikes much lighter.

Cheers, guys. Truly honored by all the support and kind words from the MTB community. 🤜 It's been an incredible decade covering the scene and testing bikes for the world to see. Thanks to everyone that aided the efforts and tuned into the many features Vital and I created over the years. It takes a team, and Vital's is among the most dedicated out there. Yay bikes!

Love the new video format. Question: Isn't Kevin a Specialized ambassador?