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Our entire powerlifting team took Asthma 'drugs' in the early 90's when i was in College before that stuff was banned. We only took it at events and the boost was significant like 10%. It was no Joke. Some guys also took Clenbuterol before that was banned but was pretty expensive, that gave them another boost.

i love the generally civil discussion going on here. keep it going! to see guys like jesse in here is awesome too. i also want to spam out erik saunder's Inside Line interview for those who may not have listened yet. there's a ton of great general racing insight from him (recorded 4 months ago or so) - https://www.vitalmtb.com/features/The-Inside-Line-Podcast-Erik-Saunders…

I would like to disagree with your last point. Enduro is a much different sport than Road, there is a hell of a lot more skill, talent and bike tech required to do well in Enduro so most PED's have less of an effect on overall performance. It's a younger sport so there has been less time to build that upper-edge finding mentality, I was all over the place in my first few years trying to figure out how to be faster. So much to try and learn about the sport that supplements were the least of my worries. Anyways...

there is one important thing to correct here... 3) He duped an entire sport, and the entire Western sporting world. I'm hardly alone in the droves he convinced he was clean. He did not dupe an entire sport.... he duped naive fans.... inside the sport we all knew what lance was doing since 1993 when he won his first world championships... as time went on, and especially when he started winning the tour and his team became dominant, we knew more and more... i dont mean guessing at it... i mean that we hear first hand or second about details...

You lost any thread credibility when you said you were one of the biggest “lance is clean” guys.

Great discussion so far. Thanks to all for contributing. J Brines, when I read the rules on the EWS site that you linked, they are clear to me, although I do admit I had to read them a few times. You dodge the test or don’t comply with the testing procedures, you loose. You fail the test they (they being a governing body that EWS has invited in, in this case) administer, you are banned from further competition. If you fail, you can then appeal the ban and EWS will make the call on how they are gonna handle it...

It was a new Beta 2. It is no secret that all Beta 2 substances have been banned for a long time.

I understand your point and do see the middle ground here. My reference to old vs new doping was born from some comments Ive seen in the coverage of this situation and general conversations Ive had with casual cycling and non-cycling friends regarding doping. Casual observers hear "doping in cycling" and envision LA, needles and blood bags. They don't think about TUEs, albuterol inhalers (maybe like the ones their kids use), or the fact that banned substances are found in over the counter stuff. Everyone pops so many pills and has so many wacky dietary situations these days that a...

I just noticed that, so far, of the 6 EWS riders who are known to have been tested in France, the riders who got an AAF result are not from the EU. I wonder if the above piece of info is a factor in all of this. Are physios and athletes from the EU that much more careful with supplements?

Referencing Jeff's comments in his latest post about "It hasn't been explicitly explained to the racers how this works, and to assume a bunch of mountain bike riders, most of whom never competed in an Olympic sport, are going to go check all their supplements or whatever is silly. It won't happen." I'm pleased that you have such a positive take on this, however, Jared was an Olympian; Richie isn't dumb about this stuff either. Everyone who is in the sport as an athlete is very very aware of this stuff in this day and age, even if the average...

Interesting how some people are acting as though if they are not in dark back alleys with needles, blood bags and a dr w/ an Italian last name ... it must not be doping....or at least it requires a different punishment. Seems to me that the needle and blood bag doping days are over and this is now what doping looks like.

Just to wrap up my thoughts here - My $0.02 on how to handle this. Graves and Rude both need sanctions brought forth. It shouldn't be "career ruining" but it should be a stern "we take this sort of thing seriously" type of thing with some concessions regarding the lack of clarity around doping. Either way, they both should serve a ban from racing for a relatively short period of time. Anything less sends a soft message. Most importantly, the EWS needs to get their shit together and very closely define their anti doping measures, protocols and process. It should...

Also...this seems fitting (though perhaps tasteless)

Huh? Stars? Nothing matters? How is that at all analogous to me suggesting performance enhancing drugs are more varied in their nature than you are suggesting. Again, you keep saying the EWS rules are clear. They aren't. http://www.enduroworldseries.com/ews-general/ews-rule-book/#_Toc5075851… Outside of the race in France (which was tested under the French anti-doping policy) there isn't consistent structured PED testing at the EWS carried out to one specific protocol. Its not clear if they'll test in competition? Out of competition? Just the top riders? Random riders? What list is being tested against? How do you submit for a TUE? Where can an...

Yeah man, the universe isn't even real bro. Did you know we're all just made of stars? Far out! Nothing matters dude! Look, the rules and limits are clear. If you're not clear on that, that's on you. These athletes voluntarily participate in a sport governed with rules and a part of that is PED testing. It's nice that they weren't caught with CERA or popped for anabolics, but in this case the testing actually (really!) is binary: They both failed a drug test. You can call it a grey area, but then when they're sanctioned will they "sort of"...

Very well said and similar to my own inner ambivalence. In a perfect world, I like your alternative way of how this could have been handled. In the world we live in I fear if word got out it could be spun to look like favouritism or perceived as a Rudegate / Gravesgate coverup type situation. It would be a shame for this to placed on the same level as something like the Armstrong scandal where there was a conscious and highly sophisticated system utilized to very intentionally and covertly circumvent the system as this seems anything but. Even if...

I can only imagine it’s a vicious cycle of injury/ concussion, reaction time, and the “aderal/amphetamine advantage”. A lot of wide open eyes in the supercross scene. Similar demands in Enduro.

I definitely lean towards the "hoping it was an accident / didn't know etc". I don't know how I would feel if it was from two riders that I didn't like very much however. Hard to tell whether my bias is coming from liking the Richie and Jared. I just really hope that this doesn't fuck with Jared's head too much during his chemo etc. Having stuff like this pulling you down when you need all the strength you can muster would be tough...