I maintain that Radial(ish) tires are the biggest technological leap forward in mountain biking since 2019.
Even on hardpack. Just run the right pressures.
The trail casings are great because you can keep the total weight down and they are pinch flat resistant with higher pressures... protects the rim too.
IMO the DH casings are less impressive, which is somewhat confirmed by their rolling change this year, where they increased the weight by ~100g per tire.
Certainly entitled to your opinion... I can think of a couple other tech evolutions I'd keep over radials since 2019.
The trail casings are great because you can keep the total weight down and they are pinch flat resistant with higher pressures... protects the rim too. IMO...
The trail casings are great because you can keep the total weight down and they are pinch flat resistant with higher pressures... protects the rim too.
IMO the DH casings are less impressive, which is somewhat confirmed by their rolling change this year, where they increased the weight by ~100g per tire.
Certainly entitled to your opinion... I can think of a couple other tech evolutions I'd keep over radials since 2019.
What specifically?
I picked 2019 because that was the year (ish) that we got 64 degree HTA on enduro and trail bikes. If I got a perfectly preserved sb150 from back then, the only components I'd need to upgrade would be the tires.
Sure, other things have improved, but not nearly as much.
What specifically? I picked 2019 because that was the year (ish) that we got 64 degree HTA on enduro and trail bikes. If I got a perfectly...
What specifically?
I picked 2019 because that was the year (ish) that we got 64 degree HTA on enduro and trail bikes. If I got a perfectly preserved sb150 from back then, the only components I'd need to upgrade would be the tires.
Sure, other things have improved, but not nearly as much.
obviously this is heavily opinionated… but on an enduro bike if the option was radial tires or 38 stanchioned forks, I’m absolutely taking a 38 or Zeb over radial casings.
Second is mullet wheels, big fan on enduro bikes. Also would take that and Maxxis or Conti over being forced to ride full 29.
The trail casings are great because you can keep the total weight down and they are pinch flat resistant with higher pressures... protects the rim too. IMO...
The trail casings are great because you can keep the total weight down and they are pinch flat resistant with higher pressures... protects the rim too.
IMO the DH casings are less impressive, which is somewhat confirmed by their rolling change this year, where they increased the weight by ~100g per tire.
Certainly entitled to your opinion... I can think of a couple other tech evolutions I'd keep over radials since 2019.
honestly, all that separates the top tires is going to come down to opinions. tires do perform differently on varied terrain, but of the tires focused on a style of riding they're more similar than not, and it's preference / riding style that makes one particular tire the best for a given rider.
every now than then, you'll see a top rider go from one team to another and be unhappy about the tires they now ride.. but generally, pros just adapt and get it done with whatever is under them. the most important element in winning a race is still the rider, by far.
the pros on schwalbe are riding radials in the front, for sure. you keep referring to a lack of support, but yes schwalbe reinforced the gen 2 casings (both gravity and trail), and pros are winning on them. rear is a mix.
it's not hype, there is more mechanical grip. this doesn't mean someone is going to value it over a tire with less traction but more support. weirdly, I can feel the grip but I haven't noticed increased rolling resistance, which is the #1 reason people report not liking radials on the rear. it could be there and I don't notice, this all adds up to someone's preference.
honestly, all that separates the top tires is going to come down to opinions. tires do perform differently on varied terrain, but of the tires focused...
honestly, all that separates the top tires is going to come down to opinions. tires do perform differently on varied terrain, but of the tires focused on a style of riding they're more similar than not, and it's preference / riding style that makes one particular tire the best for a given rider.
every now than then, you'll see a top rider go from one team to another and be unhappy about the tires they now ride.. but generally, pros just adapt and get it done with whatever is under them. the most important element in winning a race is still the rider, by far.
the pros on schwalbe are riding radials in the front, for sure. you keep referring to a lack of support, but yes schwalbe reinforced the gen 2 casings (both gravity and trail), and pros are winning on them. rear is a mix.
it's not hype, there is more mechanical grip. this doesn't mean someone is going to value it over a tire with less traction but more support. weirdly, I can feel the grip but I haven't noticed increased rolling resistance, which is the #1 reason people report not liking radials on the rear. it could be there and I don't notice, this all adds up to someone's preference.
You're kind of contradicting yourself. Up top you say "generally, pros just adapt and get it done with whatever is under them. The most important element in winning a race is still the rider, by far," which means the tire isn't the deciding factor. Then you say "it's not hype, there is more mechanical grip."
I just think they're overhyped.
It's not even unanimous among Schwalbe's own riders. Jonty Williamson ran a standard non-radial Magic Mary up front at Lenzerheide. If radial were a clear advantage, a Schwalbe-sponsored factory rider wouldn't be leaving it on the table.
Maxxis went a completely different direction, too: a stiffer tire with a reinforced sidewall, which is pretty much the opposite of the radial approach.
honestly, all that separates the top tires is going to come down to opinions. tires do perform differently on varied terrain, but of the tires focused...
honestly, all that separates the top tires is going to come down to opinions. tires do perform differently on varied terrain, but of the tires focused on a style of riding they're more similar than not, and it's preference / riding style that makes one particular tire the best for a given rider.
every now than then, you'll see a top rider go from one team to another and be unhappy about the tires they now ride.. but generally, pros just adapt and get it done with whatever is under them. the most important element in winning a race is still the rider, by far.
the pros on schwalbe are riding radials in the front, for sure. you keep referring to a lack of support, but yes schwalbe reinforced the gen 2 casings (both gravity and trail), and pros are winning on them. rear is a mix.
it's not hype, there is more mechanical grip. this doesn't mean someone is going to value it over a tire with less traction but more support. weirdly, I can feel the grip but I haven't noticed increased rolling resistance, which is the #1 reason people report not liking radials on the rear. it could be there and I don't notice, this all adds up to someone's preference.
You're kind of contradicting yourself. Up top you say "generally, pros just adapt and get it done with whatever is under them. The most important element...
You're kind of contradicting yourself. Up top you say "generally, pros just adapt and get it done with whatever is under them. The most important element in winning a race is still the rider, by far," which means the tire isn't the deciding factor. Then you say "it's not hype, there is more mechanical grip."
I just think they're overhyped.
It's not even unanimous among Schwalbe's own riders. Jonty Williamson ran a standard non-radial Magic Mary up front at Lenzerheide. If radial were a clear advantage, a Schwalbe-sponsored factory rider wouldn't be leaving it on the table.
Maxxis went a completely different direction, too: a stiffer tire with a reinforced sidewall, which is pretty much the opposite of the radial approach.
you conveniently skipped the entire part where I said it's ultimately preference, apparently just so you could argue with me.
you conveniently skipped the entire part where I said it's ultimately preference, apparently just so you could argue with me. otherwise, we would all be on that...
you conveniently skipped the entire part where I said it's ultimately preference, apparently just so you could argue with me.
otherwise, we would all be on that one best tire.
Again, we got Schwalbe riders not picking radial.
Maxxis going with an entirely different tech.
You say radials are a clear advantage and then say tire choice doesn’t matter for pros.
I’m not trying to argue, it’s just not clear what your point is….
you conveniently skipped the entire part where I said it's ultimately preference, apparently just so you could argue with me. otherwise, we would all be on that...
you conveniently skipped the entire part where I said it's ultimately preference, apparently just so you could argue with me.
Again, we got Schwalbe riders not picking radial.Maxxis going with an entirely different tech.You say radials are a clear advantage and then say tire choice doesn’t...
Again, we got Schwalbe riders not picking radial.
Maxxis going with an entirely different tech.
You say radials are a clear advantage and then say tire choice doesn’t matter for pros.
I’m not trying to argue, it’s just not clear what your point is….
you invented that in your own head, in the same space where it's relevant for you to keep arguing with anyone who dares to like radials while you do not.
what I said was "it's not hype, there is more mechanical grip. this doesn't mean someone is going to value it over a tire with less traction but more support."
the obvious (or not?) intent of this is an assertion that grip alone doesn't make a tire the best. rolling speed doesn't even do that, either, despite every discipline winning by rolling the fastest between start and finish.
lots of things go into a tire that people feel performs well. you probably can name at least 3 things you like better about your favorite tire compared to some other tire you've ridden in the same category.
you invented that in your own head, in the same space where it's relevant for you to keep arguing with anyone who dares to like radials...
you invented that in your own head, in the same space where it's relevant for you to keep arguing with anyone who dares to like radials while you do not.
what I said was "it's not hype, there is more mechanical grip. this doesn't mean someone is going to value it over a tire with less traction but more support."
the obvious (or not?) intent of this is an assertion that grip alone doesn't make a tire the best. rolling speed doesn't even do that, either, despite every discipline winning by rolling the fastest between start and finish.
lots of things go into a tire that people feel performs well. you probably can name at least 3 things you like better about your favorite tire compared to some other tire you've ridden in the same category.
Two replies now and you still haven't touched a single point. Jonty running a non-radial Magic Mary? Maxxis going stiffer instead? Nothing. Just "you invented that in your own head."
And for the record, my first post here says the trail casings are great. I like radials. My issue is the DH casings: they're overhyped and they lack support. Schwalbe basically admitted it when they added ~100g per tire this year to stiffen them up. You don't bulk up a casing that was already working.
I just don't think radials are the biggest leap since 2019, and you agreeing it's "ultimately preference" kind of proves that.
Address the actual points or don't, but the armchair psychoanalysis isn't an argument.
The trail casings are great because you can keep the total weight down and they are pinch flat resistant with higher pressures... protects the rim too. IMO...
The trail casings are great because you can keep the total weight down and they are pinch flat resistant with higher pressures... protects the rim too.
IMO the DH casings are less impressive, which is somewhat confirmed by their rolling change this year, where they increased the weight by ~100g per tire.
Certainly entitled to your opinion... I can think of a couple other tech evolutions I'd keep over radials since 2019.
honestly, all that separates the top tires is going to come down to opinions. tires do perform differently on varied terrain, but of the tires focused...
honestly, all that separates the top tires is going to come down to opinions. tires do perform differently on varied terrain, but of the tires focused on a style of riding they're more similar than not, and it's preference / riding style that makes one particular tire the best for a given rider.
every now than then, you'll see a top rider go from one team to another and be unhappy about the tires they now ride.. but generally, pros just adapt and get it done with whatever is under them. the most important element in winning a race is still the rider, by far.
the pros on schwalbe are riding radials in the front, for sure. you keep referring to a lack of support, but yes schwalbe reinforced the gen 2 casings (both gravity and trail), and pros are winning on them. rear is a mix.
it's not hype, there is more mechanical grip. this doesn't mean someone is going to value it over a tire with less traction but more support. weirdly, I can feel the grip but I haven't noticed increased rolling resistance, which is the #1 reason people report not liking radials on the rear. it could be there and I don't notice, this all adds up to someone's preference.
I'll disagree, having both now I don't see a use case where I'd pick the Albert over the Romy ever. The Romy is just a better...
I'll disagree, having both now I don't see a use case where I'd pick the Albert over the Romy ever. The Romy is just a better tire everywhere. I don't think the Albert needs to exist anymore.
This! Albert rolls slower than Romy, corners worse, and doesn't have braking or cornering grip to justify rolling resistance over a Magic Mary.
In my experience, the side knobs of the MM are relatively small and squirmy when leaned over on hardpack, compared to an Argotal or High Roller...
In my experience, the side knobs of the MM are relatively small and squirmy when leaned over on hardpack, compared to an Argotal or High Roller. Those 2 tires do pretty well on mixed conditions summer trails that go back and forth from blown out loose to hardpack. Also, because those tires have a small open transition zone, there's feedback to the rider when you've got the tire onto the big side knobs. In those conditions, the TC is a closer comparison, but is not ideal due to the exaggerated transition zone (notice how the sponsored athletes almost never run it up front anymore).
Good rundown for Schwalbe, but they already know this from their pro teams who have been asking for the 2:2:2 to match the High Roller III and Argotal.
you invented that in your own head, in the same space where it's relevant for you to keep arguing with anyone who dares to like radials...
you invented that in your own head, in the same space where it's relevant for you to keep arguing with anyone who dares to like radials while you do not.
what I said was "it's not hype, there is more mechanical grip. this doesn't mean someone is going to value it over a tire with less traction but more support."
the obvious (or not?) intent of this is an assertion that grip alone doesn't make a tire the best. rolling speed doesn't even do that, either, despite every discipline winning by rolling the fastest between start and finish.
lots of things go into a tire that people feel performs well. you probably can name at least 3 things you like better about your favorite tire compared to some other tire you've ridden in the same category.
Two replies now and you still haven't touched a single point. Jonty running a non-radial Magic Mary? Maxxis going stiffer instead? Nothing. Just "you invented that...
Two replies now and you still haven't touched a single point. Jonty running a non-radial Magic Mary? Maxxis going stiffer instead? Nothing. Just "you invented that in your own head."
And for the record, my first post here says the trail casings are great. I like radials. My issue is the DH casings: they're overhyped and they lack support. Schwalbe basically admitted it when they added ~100g per tire this year to stiffen them up. You don't bulk up a casing that was already working.
I just don't think radials are the biggest leap since 2019, and you agreeing it's "ultimately preference" kind of proves that.
Address the actual points or don't, but the armchair psychoanalysis isn't an argument.
Almost like if people gave the Michelin DH22(2020) and Cannibals(2022) a chance they could have had a more robust casing like 4-6 years ago...
Two replies now and you still haven't touched a single point. Jonty running a non-radial Magic Mary? Maxxis going stiffer instead? Nothing. Just "you invented that...
Two replies now and you still haven't touched a single point. Jonty running a non-radial Magic Mary? Maxxis going stiffer instead? Nothing. Just "you invented that in your own head."
And for the record, my first post here says the trail casings are great. I like radials. My issue is the DH casings: they're overhyped and they lack support. Schwalbe basically admitted it when they added ~100g per tire this year to stiffen them up. You don't bulk up a casing that was already working.
I just don't think radials are the biggest leap since 2019, and you agreeing it's "ultimately preference" kind of proves that.
Address the actual points or don't, but the armchair psychoanalysis isn't an argument.
The new maxxis casing is more compliant in the tread with a stiffer sidewall towards the bead. The overall ride feel is more supple for sure, not stiffer.
The new maxxis casing is more compliant in the tread with a stiffer sidewall towards the bead. The overall ride feel is more supple for sure...
The new maxxis casing is more compliant in the tread with a stiffer sidewall towards the bead. The overall ride feel is more supple for sure, not stiffer.
Getting into semantics but pretty sure Maxxis designer called it the opposite approach of radial.
That would be a strange statement imo. I guess the added sidewall support is the opposite of what a radial feels like in corners but the compliance of the casing under the tread is definitely a step towards the radial feel.
Either way, it 100% does not ride like a stiffer tire regardless of the design intent. I am very confident in that assessment. The suppleness is immediately obvious on the first lap. It does offer more support when loaded hard at a given tire pressure, but that is not a quality I would describe as "stiffer".
Two replies now and you still haven't touched a single point. Jonty running a non-radial Magic Mary? Maxxis going stiffer instead? Nothing. Just "you invented that...
Two replies now and you still haven't touched a single point. Jonty running a non-radial Magic Mary? Maxxis going stiffer instead? Nothing. Just "you invented that in your own head."
And for the record, my first post here says the trail casings are great. I like radials. My issue is the DH casings: they're overhyped and they lack support. Schwalbe basically admitted it when they added ~100g per tire this year to stiffen them up. You don't bulk up a casing that was already working.
I just don't think radials are the biggest leap since 2019, and you agreeing it's "ultimately preference" kind of proves that.
Address the actual points or don't, but the armchair psychoanalysis isn't an argument.
That would be a strange statement imo. I guess the added sidewall support is the opposite of what a radial feels like in corners but the...
That would be a strange statement imo. I guess the added sidewall support is the opposite of what a radial feels like in corners but the compliance of the casing under the tread is definitely a step towards the radial feel.
Either way, it 100% does not ride like a stiffer tire regardless of the design intent. I am very confident in that assessment. The suppleness is immediately obvious on the first lap. It does offer more support when loaded hard at a given tire pressure, but that is not a quality I would describe as "stiffer".
I think you are confused. It's stiffer in the sidewall and yes the top of the tire is more compliant.
You have to run less pressure than normal.... this is opposite of radial, as mentioned by the Maxxis designer. It makes sense.
That would be a strange statement imo. I guess the added sidewall support is the opposite of what a radial feels like in corners but the...
That would be a strange statement imo. I guess the added sidewall support is the opposite of what a radial feels like in corners but the compliance of the casing under the tread is definitely a step towards the radial feel.
Either way, it 100% does not ride like a stiffer tire regardless of the design intent. I am very confident in that assessment. The suppleness is immediately obvious on the first lap. It does offer more support when loaded hard at a given tire pressure, but that is not a quality I would describe as "stiffer".
I think you are confused. It's stiffer in the sidewall and yes the top of the tire is more compliant. You have to run less pressure than...
I think you are confused. It's stiffer in the sidewall and yes the top of the tire is more compliant.
You have to run less pressure than normal.... this is opposite of radial, as mentioned by the Maxxis designer. It makes sense.
What exactly am I confused about? The ride characteristics? The construction?
Yes it is a different construction from a radial but it is very clear when you ride them that the ride feel is a step towards softer and more supple (IE closer to a radial) compared to the old dh casing. It is a bit more supple vs the old casing if ran at the same PSI. And it becomes a lot more supple when ran 1-2psi lower as intended by the design. This is the opposite of what you initially claimed. Yes parts of the construction are stiffer but this was done to address a specific compromise of radials while retaining the positive aspects, not reverse the design philosophy as a whole.
And for what it's worth, I did not like the first iteration of the scwhalbe gravity radials in my limited time on them. I haven't ridden the new ones. But I do disagree with the claim that the new maxxis dh casing is stiffer than the old and that improvement in carcass compliance doesn't really matter. Is carcass compliance the end all be all of tire performance? No. I still prefer the old dh casing to a DD for most riding due to the damping. But combining DD or better levels of compliance with dh levels of damping is absolutely one of the more significant innovations in recent years imo. It's a bigger improvement than 36 vs 38mm stanchions for me...
So the new Dunlop tires seem to be out (finally), anyone with any time on them yet?
I have both rear models in enduro casing at home in 29x2.4. No rides yet, waiting for front but they are fully gone now. Casing feels more thicker compared to the latest Schwalbe Trail Pro. Weights are 75-100g below what is officially on their site.
What exactly am I confused about? The ride characteristics? The construction?Yes it is a different construction from a radial but it is very clear when you...
What exactly am I confused about? The ride characteristics? The construction?
Yes it is a different construction from a radial but it is very clear when you ride them that the ride feel is a step towards softer and more supple (IE closer to a radial) compared to the old dh casing. It is a bit more supple vs the old casing if ran at the same PSI. And it becomes a lot more supple when ran 1-2psi lower as intended by the design. This is the opposite of what you initially claimed. Yes parts of the construction are stiffer but this was done to address a specific compromise of radials while retaining the positive aspects, not reverse the design philosophy as a whole.
And for what it's worth, I did not like the first iteration of the scwhalbe gravity radials in my limited time on them. I haven't ridden the new ones. But I do disagree with the claim that the new maxxis dh casing is stiffer than the old and that improvement in carcass compliance doesn't really matter. Is carcass compliance the end all be all of tire performance? No. I still prefer the old dh casing to a DD for most riding due to the damping. But combining DD or better levels of compliance with dh levels of damping is absolutely one of the more significant innovations in recent years imo. It's a bigger improvement than 36 vs 38mm stanchions for me...
One calls for more pressure than “normal” casing, the other calls for less. They’re completely different tech trying to get the same goal in opposite ways.
What exactly am I confused about? The ride characteristics? The construction?Yes it is a different construction from a radial but it is very clear when you...
What exactly am I confused about? The ride characteristics? The construction?
Yes it is a different construction from a radial but it is very clear when you ride them that the ride feel is a step towards softer and more supple (IE closer to a radial) compared to the old dh casing. It is a bit more supple vs the old casing if ran at the same PSI. And it becomes a lot more supple when ran 1-2psi lower as intended by the design. This is the opposite of what you initially claimed. Yes parts of the construction are stiffer but this was done to address a specific compromise of radials while retaining the positive aspects, not reverse the design philosophy as a whole.
And for what it's worth, I did not like the first iteration of the scwhalbe gravity radials in my limited time on them. I haven't ridden the new ones. But I do disagree with the claim that the new maxxis dh casing is stiffer than the old and that improvement in carcass compliance doesn't really matter. Is carcass compliance the end all be all of tire performance? No. I still prefer the old dh casing to a DD for most riding due to the damping. But combining DD or better levels of compliance with dh levels of damping is absolutely one of the more significant innovations in recent years imo. It's a bigger improvement than 36 vs 38mm stanchions for me...
One calls for more pressure than “normal” casing, the other calls for less. They’re completely different tech trying to get the same goal in opposite ways.This...
One calls for more pressure than “normal” casing, the other calls for less. They’re completely different tech trying to get the same goal in opposite ways.
This isn’t rocket science.
Please take your pointless (thread bloating) arguments to the argument thread. Please, and thanks.
The trail casings are great because you can keep the total weight down and they are pinch flat resistant with higher pressures... protects the rim too.
IMO the DH casings are less impressive, which is somewhat confirmed by their rolling change this year, where they increased the weight by ~100g per tire.
Certainly entitled to your opinion... I can think of a couple other tech evolutions I'd keep over radials since 2019.
What specifically?
I picked 2019 because that was the year (ish) that we got 64 degree HTA on enduro and trail bikes. If I got a perfectly preserved sb150 from back then, the only components I'd need to upgrade would be the tires.
Sure, other things have improved, but not nearly as much.
obviously this is heavily opinionated… but on an enduro bike if the option was radial tires or 38 stanchioned forks, I’m absolutely taking a 38 or Zeb over radial casings.
Second is mullet wheels, big fan on enduro bikes. Also would take that and Maxxis or Conti over being forced to ride full 29.
honestly, all that separates the top tires is going to come down to opinions. tires do perform differently on varied terrain, but of the tires focused on a style of riding they're more similar than not, and it's preference / riding style that makes one particular tire the best for a given rider.
every now than then, you'll see a top rider go from one team to another and be unhappy about the tires they now ride.. but generally, pros just adapt and get it done with whatever is under them. the most important element in winning a race is still the rider, by far.
the pros on schwalbe are riding radials in the front, for sure. you keep referring to a lack of support, but yes schwalbe reinforced the gen 2 casings (both gravity and trail), and pros are winning on them. rear is a mix.
it's not hype, there is more mechanical grip. this doesn't mean someone is going to value it over a tire with less traction but more support. weirdly, I can feel the grip but I haven't noticed increased rolling resistance, which is the #1 reason people report not liking radials on the rear. it could be there and I don't notice, this all adds up to someone's preference.
You're kind of contradicting yourself. Up top you say "generally, pros just adapt and get it done with whatever is under them. The most important element in winning a race is still the rider, by far," which means the tire isn't the deciding factor. Then you say "it's not hype, there is more mechanical grip."
I just think they're overhyped.
It's not even unanimous among Schwalbe's own riders. Jonty Williamson ran a standard non-radial Magic Mary up front at Lenzerheide. If radial were a clear advantage, a Schwalbe-sponsored factory rider wouldn't be leaving it on the table.
Maxxis went a completely different direction, too: a stiffer tire with a reinforced sidewall, which is pretty much the opposite of the radial approach.
you conveniently skipped the entire part where I said it's ultimately preference, apparently just so you could argue with me.
otherwise, we would all be on that one best tire.
Again, we got Schwalbe riders not picking radial.
Maxxis going with an entirely different tech.
You say radials are a clear advantage and then say tire choice doesn’t matter for pros.
I’m not trying to argue, it’s just not clear what your point is….
you invented that in your own head, in the same space where it's relevant for you to keep arguing with anyone who dares to like radials while you do not.
what I said was "it's not hype, there is more mechanical grip. this doesn't mean someone is going to value it over a tire with less traction but more support."
the obvious (or not?) intent of this is an assertion that grip alone doesn't make a tire the best. rolling speed doesn't even do that, either, despite every discipline winning by rolling the fastest between start and finish.
lots of things go into a tire that people feel performs well. you probably can name at least 3 things you like better about your favorite tire compared to some other tire you've ridden in the same category.
Two replies now and you still haven't touched a single point. Jonty running a non-radial Magic Mary? Maxxis going stiffer instead? Nothing. Just "you invented that in your own head."
And for the record, my first post here says the trail casings are great. I like radials. My issue is the DH casings: they're overhyped and they lack support. Schwalbe basically admitted it when they added ~100g per tire this year to stiffen them up. You don't bulk up a casing that was already working.
I just don't think radials are the biggest leap since 2019, and you agreeing it's "ultimately preference" kind of proves that.
Address the actual points or don't, but the armchair psychoanalysis isn't an argument.
Trail casing didn’t change
This! Albert rolls slower than Romy, corners worse, and doesn't have braking or cornering grip to justify rolling resistance over a Magic Mary.
Good rundown for Schwalbe, but they already know this from their pro teams who have been asking for the 2:2:2 to match the High Roller III and Argotal.
Almost like if people gave the Michelin DH22(2020) and Cannibals(2022) a chance they could have had a more robust casing like 4-6 years ago...
The new maxxis casing is more compliant in the tread with a stiffer sidewall towards the bead. The overall ride feel is more supple for sure, not stiffer.
Getting into semantics but pretty sure Maxxis designer called it the opposite approach of radial.
His words not mine.
That would be a strange statement imo. I guess the added sidewall support is the opposite of what a radial feels like in corners but the compliance of the casing under the tread is definitely a step towards the radial feel.
Either way, it 100% does not ride like a stiffer tire regardless of the design intent. I am very confident in that assessment. The suppleness is immediately obvious on the first lap. It does offer more support when loaded hard at a given tire pressure, but that is not a quality I would describe as "stiffer".
Dude, have you ridden any of these tires?
I think you are confused. It's stiffer in the sidewall and yes the top of the tire is more compliant.
You have to run less pressure than normal.... this is opposite of radial, as mentioned by the Maxxis designer. It makes sense.
Yeah and unfortunately I have some radial DH casings that are off to the side and will probably get used down the road at some point.
Third reply, zero effort to engage in a discussion around points or facts. Just accusations... and personal attacks.
Take care.
So the new Dunlop tires seem to be out (finally), anyone with any time on them yet?
So help me god, if he asks what makes a tire flickable I’m going to turn this car around.
What exactly am I confused about? The ride characteristics? The construction?
Yes it is a different construction from a radial but it is very clear when you ride them that the ride feel is a step towards softer and more supple (IE closer to a radial) compared to the old dh casing. It is a bit more supple vs the old casing if ran at the same PSI. And it becomes a lot more supple when ran 1-2psi lower as intended by the design. This is the opposite of what you initially claimed. Yes parts of the construction are stiffer but this was done to address a specific compromise of radials while retaining the positive aspects, not reverse the design philosophy as a whole.
And for what it's worth, I did not like the first iteration of the scwhalbe gravity radials in my limited time on them. I haven't ridden the new ones. But I do disagree with the claim that the new maxxis dh casing is stiffer than the old and that improvement in carcass compliance doesn't really matter. Is carcass compliance the end all be all of tire performance? No. I still prefer the old dh casing to a DD for most riding due to the damping. But combining DD or better levels of compliance with dh levels of damping is absolutely one of the more significant innovations in recent years imo. It's a bigger improvement than 36 vs 38mm stanchions for me...
I have both rear models in enduro casing at home in 29x2.4. No rides yet, waiting for front but they are fully gone now. Casing feels more thicker compared to the latest Schwalbe Trail Pro. Weights are 75-100g below what is officially on their site.
One calls for more pressure than “normal” casing, the other calls for less. They’re completely different tech trying to get the same goal in opposite ways.
This isn’t rocket science.
Please take your pointless (thread bloating) arguments to the argument thread. Please, and thanks.
https://www.vitalmtb.com/forums/bike/thread-derailment-arguments-place-…
Fair enough, I'll take it up with the Maxxis designer I was quoting. Apparently they've got their own casings wrong.
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