"You will always have pressure buildup before the preloaded shims open up, and on top of that, in my opinion, digressive rebound tunes are just downright...
"You will always have pressure buildup before the preloaded shims open up, and on top of that, in my opinion, digressive rebound tunes are just downright scary on jumps. (Would apply for the R85 rebound tune on the D1.)"
The R85 is the most progressive rebound tune you will see in a mainstream damper. Yes it is preloaded with a ring shim but that doesn't automatically mean its digressive. Most of the preloaded rebound stack Rockshox have made are so stiff they don't open, as you mentioned - which makes them progressive.
They have always used dished pistons or ring shims in the shock base valve- it's not inherently bad and its normally the safest way to quickly build pressure in the damper. Whether or not it "suddenly" releases can be controlled by the rest of the valve geometry.
Alright, I will concede that. But if the preloaded shim never opens that means no oilflow is going through the stack, right?
About the base valve preload: I tried stressing that removing the preload is more difficult if it is applied through piston geometry rather than a ring shim. Maybe it isn't bad in all situations, but if I don't have the means of testing that at home, I'd rather be able to remove the preload myself without hassle to see if I like that better.
The old one was better. They both have weird stock tunes but the 2018-22 Super Deluxe's (air and coil) would tune up very well with just...
The old one was better. They both have weird stock tunes but the 2018-22 Super Deluxe's (air and coil) would tune up very well with just shims as you can easily remove the ring-shims in the stacks. Use 2 stage shim stacks on compression and rebound with some basevalve reshimming on the 2018-22 to get you an excellent and reliable shock. Plus the shims were mostly the same sizes.
The 23+ need more changes to perform the same. Rebound ports on the coils are too small and the dished piston built into the base-valves causes a dead feeling. The coils use a whole heap of different shim sizes too so tuning is a bigger PITA. The lower end 23+ shocks are easier to tune as they have a simpler base-valve without the dished piston. The 23+ air shocks use a very similar main piston setup to the 2018-22 and tune up easier than the coils.
My recommendation: Get a base-mid spec shock with climb switch only if you have a choice with the 23+. Not the ultimate with HSC/LSC. For the 2018-22 get the Ultimate with LSC adjust.
Was considering trying an air shock and the Rs super deluxe ultimate is tuned for my offering v4 by Evil and people seem to be mostly happy with it, but I guess I’m better off keeping my Push 11.6 gen 1
The old one was better. They both have weird stock tunes but the 2018-22 Super Deluxe's (air and coil) would tune up very well with just...
The old one was better. They both have weird stock tunes but the 2018-22 Super Deluxe's (air and coil) would tune up very well with just shims as you can easily remove the ring-shims in the stacks. Use 2 stage shim stacks on compression and rebound with some basevalve reshimming on the 2018-22 to get you an excellent and reliable shock. Plus the shims were mostly the same sizes.
The 23+ need more changes to perform the same. Rebound ports on the coils are too small and the dished piston built into the base-valves causes a dead feeling. The coils use a whole heap of different shim sizes too so tuning is a bigger PITA. The lower end 23+ shocks are easier to tune as they have a simpler base-valve without the dished piston. The 23+ air shocks use a very similar main piston setup to the 2018-22 and tune up easier than the coils.
My recommendation: Get a base-mid spec shock with climb switch only if you have a choice with the 23+. Not the ultimate with HSC/LSC. For the 2018-22 get the Ultimate with LSC adjust.
Was considering trying an air shock and the Rs super deluxe ultimate is tuned for my offering v4 by Evil and people seem to be mostly...
Was considering trying an air shock and the Rs super deluxe ultimate is tuned for my offering v4 by Evil and people seem to be mostly happy with it, but I guess I’m better off keeping my Push 11.6 gen 1
Personally I wouldn't read too much in on what you should/shouldn't get from a single dude on the internet notorious for crapping on product. My experience with the previous generation super deelux and vivid was net positive. I do think RS is making better shocks than fox at the moment, or at the very least a bit more user friendly. I do really appreciate RS making their shocks so easy to service, and making their tunes easily available. I've done 50/100 hour services and retunes myself and that has been awesome.
The biggest issue I had was how damn annoying taking off the air can was in the 23+ year super deelux to put in spacers. In fact it annoys me so much I have a new super deelux on order!
I'll go on record to state the Vivid Air Ultimate C1 (C26, R55, X4, 240psi, 1 token, Nukeproof Mega v4 297) was the most underwhelming shock I ever rode. Having done the 200h service on that thing, I also have no idea how it should be a better experience than working on a recent Fox shock like the Float X or DHX. (Float X2 and DHX2 are a different story of course.) Same goes for Super Deluxe Coil A2 and Super Deluxe B2. Have one each of these, too.
Float X and DHX MY22-24 stock were pretty poor. Putting in a softer base valve tune helps MY22-24 tremendously. MY25+ stock is very rideable. Tunes have improved a ton and mechanic friendlyness improved a little as well.
I'll go on record to state the Vivid Air Ultimate C1 (C26, R55, X4, 240psi, 1 token, Nukeproof Mega v4 297) was the most underwhelming shock...
I'll go on record to state the Vivid Air Ultimate C1 (C26, R55, X4, 240psi, 1 token, Nukeproof Mega v4 297) was the most underwhelming shock I ever rode. Having done the 200h service on that thing, I also have no idea how it should be a better experience than working on a recent Fox shock like the Float X or DHX. (Float X2 and DHX2 are a different story of course.) Same goes for Super Deluxe Coil A2 and Super Deluxe B2. Have one each of these, too.
Float X and DHX MY22-24 stock were pretty poor. Putting in a softer base valve tune helps MY22-24 tremendously. MY25+ stock is very rideable. Tunes have improved a ton and mechanic friendlyness improved a little as well.
I've got a vivid air on three different bikes. One of them has a wps tune that I think is outstanding, the other is an off the shelf tune for a stumpjumper that i think is terrible, and the last one is an off the shelf tune for an enduro that i think is ok - so i think tune matters more than anything?
I'll go on record to state the Vivid Air Ultimate C1 (C26, R55, X4, 240psi, 1 token, Nukeproof Mega v4 297) was the most underwhelming shock...
I'll go on record to state the Vivid Air Ultimate C1 (C26, R55, X4, 240psi, 1 token, Nukeproof Mega v4 297) was the most underwhelming shock I ever rode. Having done the 200h service on that thing, I also have no idea how it should be a better experience than working on a recent Fox shock like the Float X or DHX. (Float X2 and DHX2 are a different story of course.) Same goes for Super Deluxe Coil A2 and Super Deluxe B2. Have one each of these, too.
Float X and DHX MY22-24 stock were pretty poor. Putting in a softer base valve tune helps MY22-24 tremendously. MY25+ stock is very rideable. Tunes have improved a ton and mechanic friendlyness improved a little as well.
I've got a vivid air on three different bikes. One of them has a wps tune that I think is outstanding, the other is an off...
I've got a vivid air on three different bikes. One of them has a wps tune that I think is outstanding, the other is an off the shelf tune for a stumpjumper that i think is terrible, and the last one is an off the shelf tune for an enduro that i think is ok - so i think tune matters more than anything?
It just goes to show that the actual tune of the shock has a lot to do with how the shock performs on a bike.
It just goes to show that the actual tune of the shock has a lot to do with how the shock performs on a bike.
How does one go about getting the right aftermarket tune for RockShox? I’m looking for a coil for my Bullit and I’ll consider anything reliable (not Fox).
Only real requirement I have is hydraulic bottom out since I keep bikes for a long time and bottoming hard breaks stuff.
I find I really like custom tuned rebound, feels so good. I’m not much of a knob twister once I find my baseline setup.
For $$ I could get a Telum but I’d probably be happy with a Vivid with the right tune.
How does one go about getting the right aftermarket tune for RockShox? I’m looking for a coil for my Bullit and I’ll consider anything reliable (not...
How does one go about getting the right aftermarket tune for RockShox? I’m looking for a coil for my Bullit and I’ll consider anything reliable (not Fox).
Only real requirement I have is hydraulic bottom out since I keep bikes for a long time and bottoming hard breaks stuff.
I find I really like custom tuned rebound, feels so good. I’m not much of a knob twister once I find my baseline setup.
For $$ I could get a Telum but I’d probably be happy with a Vivid with the right tune.
I've got a vivid air on three different bikes. One of them has a wps tune that I think is outstanding, the other is an off...
I've got a vivid air on three different bikes. One of them has a wps tune that I think is outstanding, the other is an off the shelf tune for a stumpjumper that i think is terrible, and the last one is an off the shelf tune for an enduro that i think is ok - so i think tune matters more than anything?
I'm not that surprised the WPS does much better. Any aftermarket tune I have seen (Fluid Focus, M-ST, WPS) uses a mid valve with much larger rebound ports. But sure, shock tunes matter, too.
How does one go about getting the right aftermarket tune for RockShox? I’m looking for a coil for my Bullit and I’ll consider anything reliable (not...
How does one go about getting the right aftermarket tune for RockShox? I’m looking for a coil for my Bullit and I’ll consider anything reliable (not Fox).
Only real requirement I have is hydraulic bottom out since I keep bikes for a long time and bottoming hard breaks stuff.
I find I really like custom tuned rebound, feels so good. I’m not much of a knob twister once I find my baseline setup.
For $$ I could get a Telum but I’d probably be happy with a Vivid with the right tune.
Lots of used Push Eleven Sixes on Pinkbike, assuming they have a Bullit tune you can just send it in to get retuned.
Telum is excellent on the Bullit though, very happy with mine.
How does one go about getting the right aftermarket tune for RockShox? I’m looking for a coil for my Bullit and I’ll consider anything reliable (not...
How does one go about getting the right aftermarket tune for RockShox? I’m looking for a coil for my Bullit and I’ll consider anything reliable (not Fox).
Only real requirement I have is hydraulic bottom out since I keep bikes for a long time and bottoming hard breaks stuff.
I find I really like custom tuned rebound, feels so good. I’m not much of a knob twister once I find my baseline setup.
For $$ I could get a Telum but I’d probably be happy with a Vivid with the right tune.
You can contact the bike brand to see if they have a preferred tune for the bike (your Bullit) for the shock you plan to use.
If yes, get that info from them and/or see if they have a shock tuner/service company they work recommend. If no, you can still ask if they have someone they recommend but you just won't have as much of a head start. If they recommend someone, contact them and talk through some options. If they don't recommend anyone, find someone who seems reputable and talk to them.
I was trying to get a Rockshox Deluxe Ultimate for my Yeti SB120. I had a SuperDeluxe Ultimate on there but it was taking up too much room in my front triangle so I was hoping to go to an inline shock with a smaller footprint. I talked to Yeti and Rockshox. Yeti didn't have a suggested tune for the Deluxe (but happily gave me the tuning information for Fox Float and Super Deluxe Ultimate in case that info helped) and Rockshox didn't have anything on hand (because Yeti didn't develop one). So I contacted a couple tuners to see what was possible. I found a path forward with a Deluxe Ultimate if I wanted to go down that route but it meant buying from Rockshox, mailing to the tuner, having them do a full service with a guess at the custom tune, and then mailing the shock to me. One of the shock tuning companies offered a tuning revision within a certain timeframe.
Just to finish that story out: At the end of the day, I ended up going with a Cane Creek AirIL because - all things considered - it was just a bit better of a situation. The Cane Creek has a pretty wide tuning range (essentially, you have enough range to custom tune it yourself on the bike) and was priced competitively at the time. I think my situation was sorta unique because I was "downgrading" the capability of the shock when most people are going for "upgrades." The CC shock performs pretty well (I need to adjust the volume spacers a little is all) plus I can currently get 30% more liquid in the front triangle. A slightly different bottle and I can probably get even more. More in-bottle carbs means significantly longer rides and feeling much better after rides which means more days riding. I'm stoked with how it all turned out.
Worth mentioning that Rockshox and Fox will both re-tune shocks for customers (for around $225 USD), and as a part of that service they help you identify the right tune for your bike. They won't always have a perfect answer, but a lot of the time they've already worked with the brand to sort out tunes for their bikes, so they often times they can tell you the tune that your bike's brand recommends. If they don't have that exact information, they're also pretty helpful at making educated guesses, and they have all the same resources at their disposal to determine the best tune for your bike as most aftermarket suspension tuners.
It's not apples to apples the same thing as a Vorsprung Tractive Tune or a Fluid Focus rebuild or an Avalanche tune, because those tuners are also substituting some of their own proprietary hardware into the shock, but I didn't know that Fox or Rockshox even offered this service for the longest time, and it was great for me to learn that this option is available through Fox or Rockshox.
Since you’re basically paying for a rebuild already when you get a tune, shopping used shocks in the shock model you’re looking for can be a great way to save money. In most cases you can just shop the eye to eye and get the stroke adjusted as part of the rebuild.
Worth mentioning that Rockshox and Fox will both re-tune shocks for customers (for around $225 USD), and as a part of that service they help you...
Worth mentioning that Rockshox and Fox will both re-tune shocks for customers (for around $225 USD), and as a part of that service they help you identify the right tune for your bike. They won't always have a perfect answer, but a lot of the time they've already worked with the brand to sort out tunes for their bikes, so they often times they can tell you the tune that your bike's brand recommends. If they don't have that exact information, they're also pretty helpful at making educated guesses, and they have all the same resources at their disposal to determine the best tune for your bike as most aftermarket suspension tuners.
It's not apples to apples the same thing as a Vorsprung Tractive Tune or a Fluid Focus rebuild or an Avalanche tune, because those tuners are also substituting some of their own proprietary hardware into the shock, but I didn't know that Fox or Rockshox even offered this service for the longest time, and it was great for me to learn that this option is available through Fox or Rockshox.
When did you check in with Rockshox about that service?
In December 2025 I had my bike shop reach out to them over the phone (while I was listening on speakerphone) and they said that they can't do tunes on their shocks and we'd have to get it tuned somewhere else.
If that's changed since then, that would be awesome!
I've got a vivid air on three different bikes. One of them has a wps tune that I think is outstanding, the other is an off...
I've got a vivid air on three different bikes. One of them has a wps tune that I think is outstanding, the other is an off the shelf tune for a stumpjumper that i think is terrible, and the last one is an off the shelf tune for an enduro that i think is ok - so i think tune matters more than anything?
I'm not that surprised the WPS does much better. Any aftermarket tune I have seen (Fluid Focus, M-ST, WPS) uses a mid valve with much larger...
I'm not that surprised the WPS does much better. Any aftermarket tune I have seen (Fluid Focus, M-ST, WPS) uses a mid valve with much larger rebound ports. But sure, shock tunes matter, too.
I found the vivid to be harsh when dialing in compression, at least compared to an ohlins coil. I got the tune done with the wps piston kit, so definitely conflated. But for the price of the vivid with a wps piston kit or just for the price of the piston kit as a whole, my experience has been so positive that I see myself doing it for the next x2 i plan to purchase.
edit: i don't like that charger dampers for how harsh they feel to me when turning up the compression, but the whole wps experience has been eye opening enough that i plan to send a couple 3.1s in for their respective kit as well... which really puts the telums price tag into perspective - you dont have to send it out for more hardware and a tune.
Worth mentioning that Rockshox and Fox will both re-tune shocks for customers (for around $225 USD), and as a part of that service they help you...
Worth mentioning that Rockshox and Fox will both re-tune shocks for customers (for around $225 USD), and as a part of that service they help you identify the right tune for your bike. They won't always have a perfect answer, but a lot of the time they've already worked with the brand to sort out tunes for their bikes, so they often times they can tell you the tune that your bike's brand recommends. If they don't have that exact information, they're also pretty helpful at making educated guesses, and they have all the same resources at their disposal to determine the best tune for your bike as most aftermarket suspension tuners.
It's not apples to apples the same thing as a Vorsprung Tractive Tune or a Fluid Focus rebuild or an Avalanche tune, because those tuners are also substituting some of their own proprietary hardware into the shock, but I didn't know that Fox or Rockshox even offered this service for the longest time, and it was great for me to learn that this option is available through Fox or Rockshox.
When did you check in with Rockshox about that service?In December 2025 I had my bike shop reach out to them over the phone (while I...
When did you check in with Rockshox about that service?
In December 2025 I had my bike shop reach out to them over the phone (while I was listening on speakerphone) and they said that they can't do tunes on their shocks and we'd have to get it tuned somewhere else.
If that's changed since then, that would be awesome!
That' sucks! If Rockshox won't do re-tunes for customers on their own shocks that's news to me.
Luckily, there are still other places in the US that can get you sorted on a Rockshox re-tune:
Traction Works in Portland
Fluid Focus near San Diego
Cascade Suspension Works in southern Oregon
Shell Bike in Albany, Oregon
Square Edge Suspension in Seattle
Wheel Sport in Spokane
Stillwell Performance in Phoenix
Diaz Suspension Design in Durango
All of them would be able to install a different off the shelf RS tune if you know what you need for your bike, most of them would be able to help you figure out which off the shelf tune you need, and many of them also offer their own custom hardware for RS shocks (Fluid Focus for sure, and maybe Diaz? And I know Traction Works is a Vorsprung-licensed tuning hub for installing Tractive tunes.
Another analogy - trail data or rider feedback is like going to the doctor - they will ask you questions, measure heart rate and blood pressure...
Another analogy - trail data or rider feedback is like going to the doctor - they will ask you questions, measure heart rate and blood pressure - thats like data acquisition and finding the symptoms, but getting more answers needs something like blood tests or an x-ray. They might not tell you the actual cause but they give much more information about whats going on
It’s worth picking this up, it’s quite apt.
The missing piece in healthcare and really any mtb set up is understanding what ‘healthy’ or ‘dialled’ means to the person. Highly trained professionals in any profession can really struggle when their vocabulary and understanding is so different to colloquial understanding and explanation.
Plenty of super smart doctors solve the wrong problems really well and end up with pissed off patients or high costs of care, and suspension is very similar - assuming the basics of the shock condition are good, after that it’s going to be largely dictated by what the customer wants, not what the tuner or dyno says is ‘right’.
The upshot is how testing and validating is so important, which is why set up / tuning days are so awesome. I see @TheSuspensionLabNZ does run those. I wish more people able to both tune and communicate did!
For rockshox, they actually make unique SKU for popular bike model. I know especially for Santa Cruz, Rockshox often have unique sku with the correct tune for most models.
As an example, HLC in Canada list the vivid ultimate D1 for both current gen bronson part number 00.4118.547.020 and for the vala part number 00.4118.547.021
HLC doesn't have either in stock but atleast your LBS know that it can be ordered at Sram without fully tearing down a new shock to put the proper shim stack tune in it.
Was considering trying an air shock and the Rs super deluxe ultimate is tuned for my offering v4 by Evil and people seem to be mostly...
Was considering trying an air shock and the Rs super deluxe ultimate is tuned for my offering v4 by Evil and people seem to be mostly happy with it, but I guess I’m better off keeping my Push 11.6 gen 1
Found this on the Evil website:Because they don't recommend different tunes for different size bikes or rider weights you'd have to assume those are for the...
Found this on the Evil website:
Evil V4 Shock Recommendations
Because they don't recommend different tunes for different size bikes or rider weights you'd have to assume those are for the average 70-80kg male.
Super Deluxe C26 R55 I have dyno plots for both those.
C26, it's very soft compression. Softer than the L compression tunes in the 2018-22 Super Deluxe Air shocks. R55 is a very firm/slow rebound tune.
Vivid C22X2S18 I don't have plots for. The Rockshox Piston Tuning guide suggests it's softer than C26 Vivid R54 I don't have plots for. The Rockshox Piston Tuning guide shows it's a preloaded rebound tune.
There are several bike brands that like to spec very soft compression tunes in all their rear shocks. Specialized is the major one even on their high leverage bikes. Looks like Evil is doing the same. I have no idea why they do this.
My guess is that the linkages gives you a fair amount of support and therefore it’s not so much needed from the shock unlike some bikes that just dive and die under your weight if not running a stiff setup
Linkages can't do that though.....You're only held up by springs and compression damping. Springs need to dive to resist each body movement and they do that...
Linkages can't do that though.....
You're only held up by springs and compression damping. Springs need to dive to resist each body movement and they do that more without enough compressin damping. Compression damping works when the suspension is moving, gives you support in the transition and reduces the speed and amount of dive. It also prevents/reduces bottomout events by absorbing, and not returning, bump energy.
If you have less compression damping you need a lot more spring rate to stop wallow and bottom-out. Then you need more rebound damping to control the bigger spring and absorb more stored spring energy. So your suspension ends up hard and dead feeling.
A linkage in and of itself cannot. A linkage can 100% make a set up that is more supportive not sit too high in travel and not feel overly harsh towards top of travel. If someone were to not need that level out of support out of the shock, they certainly could run less compression damping and not be wrong. It’s not like the leverage curve is pushing the spring rate so high that rebound can’t be tuned to match.
At the end of the day I wouldn’t necessarily say a manufacturers recommended tune for a bike is the end all be all for what you should look for. I’ve definitely ridden some bikes where the stock tune that was specified was not good. It’s someone’s interpretation of what they think people should want and that’s inherently not correct for every person out there.
Going back to the Offering, I think the real reason for the softer compression tune is the shock stroke. Many 150 mm bikes are running a 55 mm stroke whereas it’s using a 60 mm stroke. If the goal were to have comparable damping force at the wheel for a given shaft speed, that would on average be a 16% softer tune on the 60 mm stroke. Is a super soft tune the right thing? Depends on who you are. But definitely would make sense for it to be notably softer than a gen 4 turbo levo shock for example.
Worth mentioning that Rockshox and Fox will both re-tune shocks for customers (for around $225 USD), and as a part of that service they help you...
Worth mentioning that Rockshox and Fox will both re-tune shocks for customers (for around $225 USD), and as a part of that service they help you identify the right tune for your bike. They won't always have a perfect answer, but a lot of the time they've already worked with the brand to sort out tunes for their bikes, so they often times they can tell you the tune that your bike's brand recommends. If they don't have that exact information, they're also pretty helpful at making educated guesses, and they have all the same resources at their disposal to determine the best tune for your bike as most aftermarket suspension tuners.
It's not apples to apples the same thing as a Vorsprung Tractive Tune or a Fluid Focus rebuild or an Avalanche tune, because those tuners are also substituting some of their own proprietary hardware into the shock, but I didn't know that Fox or Rockshox even offered this service for the longest time, and it was great for me to learn that this option is available through Fox or Rockshox.
When did you check in with Rockshox about that service?In December 2025 I had my bike shop reach out to them over the phone (while I...
When did you check in with Rockshox about that service?
In December 2025 I had my bike shop reach out to them over the phone (while I was listening on speakerphone) and they said that they can't do tunes on their shocks and we'd have to get it tuned somewhere else.
If that's changed since then, that would be awesome!
That' sucks! If Rockshox won't do re-tunes for customers on their own shocks that's news to me.Luckily, there are still other places in the US that...
That' sucks! If Rockshox won't do re-tunes for customers on their own shocks that's news to me.
Luckily, there are still other places in the US that can get you sorted on a Rockshox re-tune:
Traction Works in Portland
Fluid Focus near San Diego
Cascade Suspension Works in southern Oregon
Shell Bike in Albany, Oregon
Square Edge Suspension in Seattle
Wheel Sport in Spokane
Stillwell Performance in Phoenix
Diaz Suspension Design in Durango
All of them would be able to install a different off the shelf RS tune if you know what you need for your bike, most of them would be able to help you figure out which off the shelf tune you need, and many of them also offer their own custom hardware for RS shocks (Fluid Focus for sure, and maybe Diaz? And I know Traction Works is a Vorsprung-licensed tuning hub for installing Tractive tunes.
That might have been a temporary thing. When we talked to them the process was limited to buying the Deluxe Ultimate from them, having it shipped to us (this is when Rockshox would exit the transaction completely), us sending to a shock tuner, the tuner then tuning and sending back. I couldn't even get RS to send the shock directly to the tuner to save on shipping costs. I can't remember anymore but I think the tuners we talked to at the time were Fluid Focus and Diaz. I think there was maybe one more but I can't remember...we made a lot of phone calls that day.
Fox said my dealer could purchase directly from Fox and if they specify the specific bike's tune we want, they'd do that tune for a fee (on top of the retail price of the shock) if it's already in their tuning library. Meaning, I couldn't ask for a Fox Float and call out a tuning spec, I had to ask for a specific bike's tuned shock (Yeti told me it was part number 972-87-156) and they'll take one of their retail, medium-tuned shocks and retune it to hit that spec.
I need help with my ‘26 Fox 34SL Factory. The fork came on my Epic Evo and has 130mm of travel. I have only been able...
I need help with my ‘26 Fox 34SL Factory. The fork came on my Epic Evo and has 130mm of travel. I have only been able to get 120mm out of it. I’ve tried all the typical things (removed the volume spacer, opened up both high and low speed compression dampening, reduced air pressure) and nothing seams to work. I thought maybe the fork was mistakenly shipped with 120mm travel but it will go to 130mm with the air out. What am I missing?
How's the balance on the bike? If the back end is comparatively soft it can end up rocking your weight back and unloading the fork. Which...
How's the balance on the bike? If the back end is comparatively soft it can end up rocking your weight back and unloading the fork. Which makes it difficult to get full travel.
The carpark bounce tests are very good at exposing if one end is soggy or too firm. Wind off your damping so it has less effect first.
Yes, the bike is balanced. I’ve been a hardcore mountain biker and motocrosser for years and I’m good at setting up suspension. The fork feels ok...
Yes, the bike is balanced. I’ve been a hardcore mountain biker and motocrosser for years and I’m good at setting up suspension. The fork feels ok generally but it’s the first fork I’ve ever had that’s never bottomed out. That combined with the hand numbness has just gotten in my head a bit.
Im still nerding out on the fork trying to get it to give me full travel on the biggest hits. On my last ride, I removed some air and got the sag to 30% thinking that would surely bottom the fork out and it least prove to me the fork as capable of full travel. Nope, still only gave me 120ish mm. I decided to cycle the fork a few times by removing all the air and refilling to see if that reset the positive/negative springs. The first time I removed all the air, the fork easily moved down and stayed in the fully compressed position. I filled it back up, gently pushed down to fill the negative chamber and then removed all the air again. This time the fork did not want to stay down fully compressed. Instead it wanted to stay partially extended as if the positive chamber still had air in it. Is that telling me something or am I just over thinking it?
How's the balance on the bike? If the back end is comparatively soft it can end up rocking your weight back and unloading the fork. Which...
How's the balance on the bike? If the back end is comparatively soft it can end up rocking your weight back and unloading the fork. Which makes it difficult to get full travel.
The carpark bounce tests are very good at exposing if one end is soggy or too firm. Wind off your damping so it has less effect first.
Yes, the bike is balanced. I’ve been a hardcore mountain biker and motocrosser for years and I’m good at setting up suspension. The fork feels ok...
Yes, the bike is balanced. I’ve been a hardcore mountain biker and motocrosser for years and I’m good at setting up suspension. The fork feels ok generally but it’s the first fork I’ve ever had that’s never bottomed out. That combined with the hand numbness has just gotten in my head a bit.
Im still nerding out on the fork trying to get it to give me full travel on the biggest hits. On my last ride, I removed...
Im still nerding out on the fork trying to get it to give me full travel on the biggest hits. On my last ride, I removed some air and got the sag to 30% thinking that would surely bottom the fork out and it least prove to me the fork as capable of full travel. Nope, still only gave me 120ish mm. I decided to cycle the fork a few times by removing all the air and refilling to see if that reset the positive/negative springs. The first time I removed all the air, the fork easily moved down and stayed in the fully compressed position. I filled it back up, gently pushed down to fill the negative chamber and then removed all the air again. This time the fork did not want to stay down fully compressed. Instead it wanted to stay partially extended as if the positive chamber still had air in it. Is that telling me something or am I just over thinking it?
Does that fork have air bleeder buttons on the back? If not, try a ziptie through the seal to basically burp it. If there is a lot of air trapped in the lowers it can cause a hell of a ramp up.
Yes, the bike is balanced. I’ve been a hardcore mountain biker and motocrosser for years and I’m good at setting up suspension. The fork feels ok...
Yes, the bike is balanced. I’ve been a hardcore mountain biker and motocrosser for years and I’m good at setting up suspension. The fork feels ok generally but it’s the first fork I’ve ever had that’s never bottomed out. That combined with the hand numbness has just gotten in my head a bit.
Im still nerding out on the fork trying to get it to give me full travel on the biggest hits. On my last ride, I removed...
Im still nerding out on the fork trying to get it to give me full travel on the biggest hits. On my last ride, I removed some air and got the sag to 30% thinking that would surely bottom the fork out and it least prove to me the fork as capable of full travel. Nope, still only gave me 120ish mm. I decided to cycle the fork a few times by removing all the air and refilling to see if that reset the positive/negative springs. The first time I removed all the air, the fork easily moved down and stayed in the fully compressed position. I filled it back up, gently pushed down to fill the negative chamber and then removed all the air again. This time the fork did not want to stay down fully compressed. Instead it wanted to stay partially extended as if the positive chamber still had air in it. Is that telling me something or am I just over thinking it?
Does that fork have air bleeder buttons on the back? If not, try a ziptie through the seal to basically burp it. If there is a...
Does that fork have air bleeder buttons on the back? If not, try a ziptie through the seal to basically burp it. If there is a lot of air trapped in the lowers it can cause a hell of a ramp up.
I just took the lowers off and inspected everything. Nothing seamed abnormal. I put the lowers back on, refilled with air etc. Rode around my driveway doing exaggerated bunny-hopping and was able to get more travel doing that then I’ve ever gotten landing big jumps. I guess I did something removing the lowers that’s fixed the issue? Will update after weekend rides. Cheers.
I just took the lowers off and inspected everything. Nothing seamed abnormal. I put the lowers back on, refilled with air etc. Rode around my driveway...
I just took the lowers off and inspected everything. Nothing seamed abnormal. I put the lowers back on, refilled with air etc. Rode around my driveway doing exaggerated bunny-hopping and was able to get more travel doing that then I’ve ever gotten landing big jumps. I guess I did something removing the lowers that’s fixed the issue? Will update after weekend rides. Cheers.
That makes perfect sense, and it sounds like you may have found your solution!
Check out the comment a couple responses ago that mentioned air bleeder valves and zipties. "If there is a lot of air trapped in the lowers it can cause a hell of a ramp up." The space in your lowers serves as another positive air spring in your fork, and as you compress your fork the pressure in your lowers ramps up progressively (like any air spring). Even worse, your lowers can ingest and trap air over time, which means the lowers are pressurized at full extension, which further increases the air spring ramp up effect of the lowers at full travel. There are lots of ways to release this excess air pressure in your lowers- a bleed valve, a zip tie, or taking the lowers off.
Can't find anything online regarding the new updated GRIP X2 upgrade kit. There's nothing on the parts diagram part of the Fox service website for 2027 products. Does anyone know when the MY2027 GRIP X2 upgrade kit will be available?
Can't find anything online regarding the new updated GRIP X2 upgrade kit. There's nothing on the parts diagram part of the Fox service website for 2027...
Can't find anything online regarding the new updated GRIP X2 upgrade kit. There's nothing on the parts diagram part of the Fox service website for 2027 products. Does anyone know when the MY2027 GRIP X2 upgrade kit will be available?
Im more curious to know what is that “2027 upgrade” consisting of
Can't find anything online regarding the new updated GRIP X2 upgrade kit. There's nothing on the parts diagram part of the Fox service website for 2027...
Can't find anything online regarding the new updated GRIP X2 upgrade kit. There's nothing on the parts diagram part of the Fox service website for 2027 products. Does anyone know when the MY2027 GRIP X2 upgrade kit will be available?
Im more curious to know what is that “2027 upgrade” consisting of
Piece of a write up from Vital when it was revealed: ”This go-around, the focus is on improving the damper's sensitivity while keeping all the control and tunability. It’s not a major overhaul, but there are a few meaningful updates.
The main change is that the rebound valves are no longer round; they are cut to create a more direct flow path to a new mid-valve piston that has larger ports. As you hit bumps, more oil passes the main piston more easily, increasing damper sensitivity and offering better ground feel. There is also a new VVC plate that improves oil flow and provides more consistent damping steps between each click of high-speed rebound. On the compression end, there is new valving that’s a bit heavier-damped to match the friction reduction from the new air spring and chassis.”
Alright, I will concede that. But if the preloaded shim never opens that means no oilflow is going through the stack, right?
About the base valve preload: I tried stressing that removing the preload is more difficult if it is applied through piston geometry rather than a ring shim. Maybe it isn't bad in all situations, but if I don't have the means of testing that at home, I'd rather be able to remove the preload myself without hassle to see if I like that better.
Was considering trying an air shock and the Rs super deluxe ultimate is tuned for my offering v4 by Evil and people seem to be mostly happy with it, but I guess I’m better off keeping my Push 11.6 gen 1
Personally I wouldn't read too much in on what you should/shouldn't get from a single dude on the internet notorious for crapping on product. My experience with the previous generation super deelux and vivid was net positive. I do think RS is making better shocks than fox at the moment, or at the very least a bit more user friendly. I do really appreciate RS making their shocks so easy to service, and making their tunes easily available. I've done 50/100 hour services and retunes myself and that has been awesome.
The biggest issue I had was how damn annoying taking off the air can was in the 23+ year super deelux to put in spacers. In fact it annoys me so much I have a new super deelux on order!
I'll go on record to state the Vivid Air Ultimate C1 (C26, R55, X4, 240psi, 1 token, Nukeproof Mega v4 297) was the most underwhelming shock I ever rode. Having done the 200h service on that thing, I also have no idea how it should be a better experience than working on a recent Fox shock like the Float X or DHX. (Float X2 and DHX2 are a different story of course.) Same goes for Super Deluxe Coil A2 and Super Deluxe B2. Have one each of these, too.
Float X and DHX MY22-24 stock were pretty poor. Putting in a softer base valve tune helps MY22-24 tremendously. MY25+ stock is very rideable. Tunes have improved a ton and mechanic friendlyness improved a little as well.
I've got a vivid air on three different bikes. One of them has a wps tune that I think is outstanding, the other is an off the shelf tune for a stumpjumper that i think is terrible, and the last one is an off the shelf tune for an enduro that i think is ok - so i think tune matters more than anything?
It just goes to show that the actual tune of the shock has a lot to do with how the shock performs on a bike.
How does one go about getting the right aftermarket tune for RockShox? I’m looking for a coil for my Bullit and I’ll consider anything reliable (not Fox).
Only real requirement I have is hydraulic bottom out since I keep bikes for a long time and bottoming hard breaks stuff.
I find I really like custom tuned rebound, feels so good. I’m not much of a knob twister once I find my baseline setup.
For $$ I could get a Telum but I’d probably be happy with a Vivid with the right tune.
Just get a Telum
I'm not that surprised the WPS does much better. Any aftermarket tune I have seen (Fluid Focus, M-ST, WPS) uses a mid valve with much larger rebound ports. But sure, shock tunes matter, too.
Lots of used Push Eleven Sixes on Pinkbike, assuming they have a Bullit tune you can just send it in to get retuned.
Telum is excellent on the Bullit though, very happy with mine.
You can contact the bike brand to see if they have a preferred tune for the bike (your Bullit) for the shock you plan to use.
If yes, get that info from them and/or see if they have a shock tuner/service company they work recommend. If no, you can still ask if they have someone they recommend but you just won't have as much of a head start. If they recommend someone, contact them and talk through some options. If they don't recommend anyone, find someone who seems reputable and talk to them.
I was trying to get a Rockshox Deluxe Ultimate for my Yeti SB120. I had a SuperDeluxe Ultimate on there but it was taking up too much room in my front triangle so I was hoping to go to an inline shock with a smaller footprint. I talked to Yeti and Rockshox. Yeti didn't have a suggested tune for the Deluxe (but happily gave me the tuning information for Fox Float and Super Deluxe Ultimate in case that info helped) and Rockshox didn't have anything on hand (because Yeti didn't develop one). So I contacted a couple tuners to see what was possible. I found a path forward with a Deluxe Ultimate if I wanted to go down that route but it meant buying from Rockshox, mailing to the tuner, having them do a full service with a guess at the custom tune, and then mailing the shock to me. One of the shock tuning companies offered a tuning revision within a certain timeframe.
Just to finish that story out: At the end of the day, I ended up going with a Cane Creek AirIL because - all things considered - it was just a bit better of a situation. The Cane Creek has a pretty wide tuning range (essentially, you have enough range to custom tune it yourself on the bike) and was priced competitively at the time. I think my situation was sorta unique because I was "downgrading" the capability of the shock when most people are going for "upgrades." The CC shock performs pretty well (I need to adjust the volume spacers a little is all) plus I can currently get 30% more liquid in the front triangle. A slightly different bottle and I can probably get even more. More in-bottle carbs means significantly longer rides and feeling much better after rides which means more days riding. I'm stoked with how it all turned out.
Worth mentioning that Rockshox and Fox will both re-tune shocks for customers (for around $225 USD), and as a part of that service they help you identify the right tune for your bike. They won't always have a perfect answer, but a lot of the time they've already worked with the brand to sort out tunes for their bikes, so they often times they can tell you the tune that your bike's brand recommends. If they don't have that exact information, they're also pretty helpful at making educated guesses, and they have all the same resources at their disposal to determine the best tune for your bike as most aftermarket suspension tuners.
It's not apples to apples the same thing as a Vorsprung Tractive Tune or a Fluid Focus rebuild or an Avalanche tune, because those tuners are also substituting some of their own proprietary hardware into the shock, but I didn't know that Fox or Rockshox even offered this service for the longest time, and it was great for me to learn that this option is available through Fox or Rockshox.
Since you’re basically paying for a rebuild already when you get a tune, shopping used shocks in the shock model you’re looking for can be a great way to save money. In most cases you can just shop the eye to eye and get the stroke adjusted as part of the rebuild.
When did you check in with Rockshox about that service?
In December 2025 I had my bike shop reach out to them over the phone (while I was listening on speakerphone) and they said that they can't do tunes on their shocks and we'd have to get it tuned somewhere else.
If that's changed since then, that would be awesome!
I found the vivid to be harsh when dialing in compression, at least compared to an ohlins coil. I got the tune done with the wps piston kit, so definitely conflated. But for the price of the vivid with a wps piston kit or just for the price of the piston kit as a whole, my experience has been so positive that I see myself doing it for the next x2 i plan to purchase.
edit: i don't like that charger dampers for how harsh they feel to me when turning up the compression, but the whole wps experience has been eye opening enough that i plan to send a couple 3.1s in for their respective kit as well... which really puts the telums price tag into perspective - you dont have to send it out for more hardware and a tune.
That' sucks! If Rockshox won't do re-tunes for customers on their own shocks that's news to me.
Luckily, there are still other places in the US that can get you sorted on a Rockshox re-tune:
All of them would be able to install a different off the shelf RS tune if you know what you need for your bike, most of them would be able to help you figure out which off the shelf tune you need, and many of them also offer their own custom hardware for RS shocks (Fluid Focus for sure, and maybe Diaz? And I know Traction Works is a Vorsprung-licensed tuning hub for installing Tractive tunes.
It’s worth picking this up, it’s quite apt.
The missing piece in healthcare and really any mtb set up is understanding what ‘healthy’ or ‘dialled’ means to the person. Highly trained professionals in any profession can really struggle when their vocabulary and understanding is so different to colloquial understanding and explanation.
Plenty of super smart doctors solve the wrong problems really well and end up with pissed off patients or high costs of care, and suspension is very similar - assuming the basics of the shock condition are good, after that it’s going to be largely dictated by what the customer wants, not what the tuner or dyno says is ‘right’.
The upshot is how testing and validating is so important, which is why set up / tuning days are so awesome. I see @TheSuspensionLabNZ does run those. I wish more people able to both tune and communicate did!
For rockshox, they actually make unique SKU for popular bike model. I know especially for Santa Cruz, Rockshox often have unique sku with the correct tune for most models.
As an example, HLC in Canada list the vivid ultimate D1 for both current gen bronson part number 00.4118.547.020 and for the vala part number 00.4118.547.021
HLC doesn't have either in stock but atleast your LBS know that it can be ordered at Sram without fully tearing down a new shock to put the proper shim stack tune in it.
My guess is that the linkages gives you a fair amount of support and therefore it’s not so much needed from the shock unlike some bikes that just dive and die under your weight if not running a stiff setup
A linkage in and of itself cannot. A linkage can 100% make a set up that is more supportive not sit too high in travel and not feel overly harsh towards top of travel. If someone were to not need that level out of support out of the shock, they certainly could run less compression damping and not be wrong. It’s not like the leverage curve is pushing the spring rate so high that rebound can’t be tuned to match.
At the end of the day I wouldn’t necessarily say a manufacturers recommended tune for a bike is the end all be all for what you should look for. I’ve definitely ridden some bikes where the stock tune that was specified was not good. It’s someone’s interpretation of what they think people should want and that’s inherently not correct for every person out there.
Going back to the Offering, I think the real reason for the softer compression tune is the shock stroke. Many 150 mm bikes are running a 55 mm stroke whereas it’s using a 60 mm stroke. If the goal were to have comparable damping force at the wheel for a given shaft speed, that would on average be a 16% softer tune on the 60 mm stroke. Is a super soft tune the right thing? Depends on who you are. But definitely would make sense for it to be notably softer than a gen 4 turbo levo shock for example.
That might have been a temporary thing. When we talked to them the process was limited to buying the Deluxe Ultimate from them, having it shipped to us (this is when Rockshox would exit the transaction completely), us sending to a shock tuner, the tuner then tuning and sending back. I couldn't even get RS to send the shock directly to the tuner to save on shipping costs. I can't remember anymore but I think the tuners we talked to at the time were Fluid Focus and Diaz. I think there was maybe one more but I can't remember...we made a lot of phone calls that day.
Fox said my dealer could purchase directly from Fox and if they specify the specific bike's tune we want, they'd do that tune for a fee (on top of the retail price of the shock) if it's already in their tuning library. Meaning, I couldn't ask for a Fox Float and call out a tuning spec, I had to ask for a specific bike's tuned shock (Yeti told me it was part number 972-87-156) and they'll take one of their retail, medium-tuned shocks and retune it to hit that spec.
Im still nerding out on the fork trying to get it to give me full travel on the biggest hits. On my last ride, I removed some air and got the sag to 30% thinking that would surely bottom the fork out and it least prove to me the fork as capable of full travel. Nope, still only gave me 120ish mm. I decided to cycle the fork a few times by removing all the air and refilling to see if that reset the positive/negative springs. The first time I removed all the air, the fork easily moved down and stayed in the fully compressed position. I filled it back up, gently pushed down to fill the negative chamber and then removed all the air again. This time the fork did not want to stay down fully compressed. Instead it wanted to stay partially extended as if the positive chamber still had air in it. Is that telling me something or am I just over thinking it?
Does that fork have air bleeder buttons on the back? If not, try a ziptie through the seal to basically burp it. If there is a lot of air trapped in the lowers it can cause a hell of a ramp up.
No
I just took the lowers off and inspected everything. Nothing seamed abnormal. I put the lowers back on, refilled with air etc. Rode around my driveway doing exaggerated bunny-hopping and was able to get more travel doing that then I’ve ever gotten landing big jumps. I guess I did something removing the lowers that’s fixed the issue? Will update after weekend rides. Cheers.
That makes perfect sense, and it sounds like you may have found your solution!
Check out the comment a couple responses ago that mentioned air bleeder valves and zipties. "If there is a lot of air trapped in the lowers it can cause a hell of a ramp up." The space in your lowers serves as another positive air spring in your fork, and as you compress your fork the pressure in your lowers ramps up progressively (like any air spring). Even worse, your lowers can ingest and trap air over time, which means the lowers are pressurized at full extension, which further increases the air spring ramp up effect of the lowers at full travel. There are lots of ways to release this excess air pressure in your lowers- a bleed valve, a zip tie, or taking the lowers off.
I can’t wait to ride it now and am really hoping this helps relieve my hand numbness. I really appreciate all the replies/help given.
Can't find anything online regarding the new updated GRIP X2 upgrade kit. There's nothing on the parts diagram part of the Fox service website for 2027 products. Does anyone know when the MY2027 GRIP X2 upgrade kit will be available?
Im more curious to know what is that “2027 upgrade” consisting of
Piece of a write up from Vital when it was revealed:
”This go-around, the focus is on improving the damper's sensitivity while keeping all the control and tunability. It’s not a major overhaul, but there are a few meaningful updates.
The main change is that the rebound valves are no longer round; they are cut to create a more direct flow path to a new mid-valve piston that has larger ports. As you hit bumps, more oil passes the main piston more easily, increasing damper sensitivity and offering better ground feel. There is also a new VVC plate that improves oil flow and provides more consistent damping steps between each click of high-speed rebound. On the compression end, there is new valving that’s a bit heavier-damped to match the friction reduction from the new air spring and chassis.”
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