MTB Tech Rumors and Innovation

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sspomer
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sspomer 7/19/2021 5:05pm
7/19/2021 5:05pm Edited Date/Time 7/19/2021 5:06pm
has this made the rounds? tyler morland's (SRAM lifer) DH bike from insta.

AXS w/ short cage and it has those big crazy anti-lock smart brakes w/ covers we saw a bit ago (i'm kidding about anti-lock smart)

3
LookinForIt 7/19/2021 6:05pm
7/19/2021 6:05pm
It was speculated the double caliper thing was to A/B test new calipers, with a switch somewhere. I'm no hydraulics engineer so I don't know if it would work...

AXS makes a lot of sense on DH, waiting for them to finally reveal it
4
dolface
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dolface 7/19/2021 6:20pm
7/19/2021 6:20pm
sspomer wrote:
has this made the rounds? tyler morland's (SRAM lifer) DH bike from insta. AXS w/ short cage and it has those big crazy anti-lock smart brakes...
has this made the rounds? tyler morland's (SRAM lifer) DH bike from insta.

AXS w/ short cage and it has those big crazy anti-lock smart brakes w/ covers we saw a bit ago (i'm kidding about anti-lock smart)

That is some super-deep sleuthing dude! I know it's part of your job but dang...
1
metadave
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metadave 7/19/2021 6:49pm
7/19/2021 6:49pm
sspomer wrote:
has this made the rounds? tyler morland's (SRAM lifer) DH bike from insta. AXS w/ short cage and it has those big crazy anti-lock smart brakes...
has this made the rounds? tyler morland's (SRAM lifer) DH bike from insta.

AXS w/ short cage and it has those big crazy anti-lock smart brakes w/ covers we saw a bit ago (i'm kidding about anti-lock smart)

dolface wrote:
That is some super-deep sleuthing dude! I know it's part of your job but dang...
Spomer has a job?
6
sspomer
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sspomer 7/19/2021 7:28pm
7/19/2021 7:28pm
sspomer wrote:
has this made the rounds? tyler morland's (SRAM lifer) DH bike from insta. AXS w/ short cage and it has those big crazy anti-lock smart brakes...
has this made the rounds? tyler morland's (SRAM lifer) DH bike from insta.

AXS w/ short cage and it has those big crazy anti-lock smart brakes w/ covers we saw a bit ago (i'm kidding about anti-lock smart)

dolface wrote:
That is some super-deep sleuthing dude! I know it's part of your job but dang...
metadave wrote:
Spomer has a job?
thankfully i have moles on the inside who nerd out and text me stuff. they also mentioned the pedals. are those nifty, too?
baronKanon 7/19/2021 10:49pm
7/19/2021 10:49pm
sspomer wrote:
thankfully i have moles on the inside who nerd out and text me stuff. they also mentioned the pedals. are those nifty, too?
Some new Time stuff after SRAM's acquisition?
1
Primoz
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Primoz 7/19/2021 10:56pm
7/19/2021 10:56pm
They are definitely Times. The question is, are they Time only or Time+Quark?
1
Fred_Pop
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Fred_Pop 7/19/2021 11:31pm
7/19/2021 11:31pm
dolface wrote:
Do we still care about the Spesh Status? If so I saw one in the lift line at Mammoth on Friday; didn't get a chance to...
Do we still care about the Spesh Status?

If so I saw one in the lift line at Mammoth on Friday; didn't get a chance to ask her about it but it looked brand-spanking new and she was wearing very casual gear (running shoes and shorts, half lid).
nskerb wrote:
They have been out for a while now. I rode my buddies at whitefish and saw several more also. They were doing some thing where only...
They have been out for a while now. I rode my buddies at whitefish and saw several more also. They were doing some thing where only certain spesh dealers were getting to sell them under some "flagship store" stuff.

It seemed pretty normal. Nothing to write home about, but I'm also on a bike with nearly identical geo but full 27.5. The mullet I think is a pretty good idea more so for the big wheel up front than the small wheel in the back. I'm not convinced that the whole small wheel in back thing makes as large of a difference as people claim as far as cornering/maneuverability goes. I'm not against it, but just think the whole mullet thing is a little sensationalized at the moment.
bulletbass man wrote:
I think it really depends on height/riding style. I think the advantages of the bigger wheel is obvious for traction going downhill and carrying speed when...
I think it really depends on height/riding style. I think the advantages of the bigger wheel is obvious for traction going downhill and carrying speed when the trail flattens out. It’s just a matter if you are big enough to ride a bike how you want with them. Then even if size isn’t an issue some guys are just going to want the playfulness of the smaller wheel knowing the trade offs.’

I notice in enduro it seems mostly the taller guys are on relatively short 29s for their size and the average to shorter guys are on not extreme but slightly longer mullets. Also seems some guys will switch to a full 29 if they don’t think the grade of course is steep enough. Full 29er is definitely more common for the only one bike crowd including the pro ranks for all size people.

In downhill it seems all over the map. A lot of the women are full 29 which would be unconventional if it was purely about height. I think 29 fits
Greg’s riding style as much as his height fits the bike. It’s kind of like a chicken and egg scenario with how well that new v10 has been working for him last 5 years or so.

Greg Minnaar doesn't fit his bike which is why it keeps getting longer every year! He should just get a 540mm reach V-10 made special for him with 480mm chainstays and be done with it!
1
Fantaman
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Fantaman 7/20/2021 12:18am
7/20/2021 12:18am
Antidote Darkmatter 29er Prototype

11
brash
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brash 7/20/2021 1:38am
7/20/2021 1:38am
omg my ballz that thing is hot!
2
hitar_potar 7/20/2021 1:56am
7/20/2021 1:56am
Fantaman wrote:
Antidote Darkmatter 29er Prototype [img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2021/07/20/11195/s1200_218843585_1392014174506264_1268790461862926562_n.jpg[/img] [img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2021/07/20/11194/s1200_218853140_1392014411172907_5972671719518460913_n.jpg[/img]
Antidote Darkmatter 29er Prototype

Is it just me, or does this thing now have the rear pivot on the rear axle a la Devinci/Trek/split-pivot to keep it completely active during braking while still having a high-pivot? Smile
Looks pretty interesting and sexy - looks similar (up to a small point) to the new Cannondale and Norco Range (because of the position of the shock). Smile Bad news is it will cost a fortune... Sad
1
Primoz
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Primoz 7/20/2021 2:24am
7/20/2021 2:24am Edited Date/Time 7/20/2021 2:28am
The old one was very much like the new Range, an upside down horst link (kinematics wise what is normally a chainstay is on the top here, just like on the Range, the Wilson and some other bikes as well - and the Jekyll and the Shore only moved the main pivot up, they did not flip the layout upside down, like the Wilson, Antidote and Range did). So active and a high pivot. And yes this one does have a concentric pivot, making it a single pivot pedalling wise, but active under braking. Just like the Wilson (as you said), but with a higher pivot and an idler pulley.
2
hitar_potar 7/20/2021 4:05am
7/20/2021 4:05am
Primoz wrote:
The old one was very much like the new Range, an upside down horst link (kinematics wise what is normally a chainstay is on the top...
The old one was very much like the new Range, an upside down horst link (kinematics wise what is normally a chainstay is on the top here, just like on the Range, the Wilson and some other bikes as well - and the Jekyll and the Shore only moved the main pivot up, they did not flip the layout upside down, like the Wilson, Antidote and Range did). So active and a high pivot. And yes this one does have a concentric pivot, making it a single pivot pedalling wise, but active under braking. Just like the Wilson (as you said), but with a higher pivot and an idler pulley.
Completely agree! The Cannondale reference was made only because of the shock placement and the general design - if they didn't make the downtube so thin under the shock, it would have wrapped the shock inside itself just like on the Cannondale.
From the photos you can also deduce the idler is higher than on the latest Commencal and the Cannondale, and the Trek Session. Probably on par with the Range and the Shore.
mirgrot
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mirgrot 7/20/2021 4:43am
7/20/2021 4:43am
The SRAM brake box contains an AXS cooling fan.
6
Primoz
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Primoz 7/20/2021 5:53am
7/20/2021 5:53am
Primoz wrote:
The old one was very much like the new Range, an upside down horst link (kinematics wise what is normally a chainstay is on the top...
The old one was very much like the new Range, an upside down horst link (kinematics wise what is normally a chainstay is on the top here, just like on the Range, the Wilson and some other bikes as well - and the Jekyll and the Shore only moved the main pivot up, they did not flip the layout upside down, like the Wilson, Antidote and Range did). So active and a high pivot. And yes this one does have a concentric pivot, making it a single pivot pedalling wise, but active under braking. Just like the Wilson (as you said), but with a higher pivot and an idler pulley.
hitar_potar wrote:
Completely agree! The Cannondale reference was made only because of the shock placement and the general design - if they didn't make the downtube so thin...
Completely agree! The Cannondale reference was made only because of the shock placement and the general design - if they didn't make the downtube so thin under the shock, it would have wrapped the shock inside itself just like on the Cannondale.
From the photos you can also deduce the idler is higher than on the latest Commencal and the Cannondale, and the Trek Session. Probably on par with the Range and the Shore.
That's the catch, if you're going high pivot horst link (or split pivot, as it falls under the same category more or less), you can either go all classical (the Wilson having a fairly high pivot, but no idler, yet still incorporating what is a flipped upside-down layout) or high pivot.

With a high pivot, you need an idler, but you have two options:

a) move the lower (main/BB/etc.) pivot up and with that maybe even the whole suspension, keep a fairly standard horst link layout and have a fairly low idler pivot location.
The bikes with this layout include the new Session, the Jekyll, the Shore, the old Aurum (horst link precursor to the HSP) prototype and the Scott Gambler prototype (the single pivot front triangle based prototype mule for the current horst link design), Kavenz VHP, etc. All of these have the 'looks like a session' layout with the shock positioned vertically, the idler mounted close to the lower pivot with the rocker pivoting above it.

b) flip the whole system upside down with the 'main' pivot now being the top pivot and the rocker pivoting near or around the BB. The idler is still located near the 'main' pivot (because the main pivot drives the axle path and that then drives the idler location), but much higher up than with the 'a' variant.
Bikes with this layout include the Wilson (but no idler, as the main pivot is low enough!), the Darkmatter (both the old and the new), the new Range and maybe some more. The axle path on these bikes should be much more rearward through the travel than on bikes from the 'a' variant.
2
dolface
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dolface 7/20/2021 12:25pm
7/20/2021 12:25pm
Changes to the Val di Sole track...


TheShortestCharles 7/20/2021 3:04pm
7/20/2021 3:04pm
Fantaman wrote:
Antidote Darkmatter 29er Prototype [img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2021/07/20/11195/s1200_218843585_1392014174506264_1268790461862926562_n.jpg[/img] [img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2021/07/20/11194/s1200_218853140_1392014411172907_5972671719518460913_n.jpg[/img]
Antidote Darkmatter 29er Prototype

Interesting to see the concentric rear pivot instead of the 'flipped Horst-link' on the current model. Maybe tuning a high single pivot + idler for anti-squat is easier/more desirable than tuning the four-bar, since it would barely change anti-rise? Axle path would probably be fairly similar to the old/current model, but it wouldn't go as far forward at the end of the travel, which seems to be the opposite of what some manufacturers are doing (switching from HSP designs to 'high virtual pivot' designs to reduce anti-rise and slightly reduce the extent of the wheelbase growth)
Primoz
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Primoz 7/20/2021 10:48pm
7/20/2021 10:48pm
I think in this layout a 'horst link' should reduce anti-rise quite a lot (the 'chainstay' or the axle carrying link would barely rotate through the travel, while the 'seatstay' rotates quite a bit). The question is if that's even desirable, Barel for example ran the DOPE link on the Kona in such a way that it promoted rear end squat under braking for additional stability (slacker bike and the like).

But yeah, tuning it for antisquat should be much easier.
1
Karabuka
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Karabuka 7/21/2021 1:00am
7/21/2021 1:00am
dolface wrote:
Changes to the Val di Sole track... [img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2021/07/20/11197/s1200_Screen_Shot_2021_07_20_at_12.22.11_PM.jpg[/img]
Changes to the Val di Sole track...


If it is only one small section of insanely long, steep and technical track everyone will be ok... Plus it does not look like a motorway at all... But I get the principle of all natural, that seems to be lost, eventhough there has been a rework of natural roadgap in the middle few years back and a wooden bridge in the upper part since forever so thats been lost some time ago.
Philip_Rossetti 7/21/2021 2:24am
7/21/2021 2:24am
dolface wrote:
Changes to the Val di Sole track... [img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2021/07/20/11197/s1200_Screen_Shot_2021_07_20_at_12.22.11_PM.jpg[/img]
Changes to the Val di Sole track...


Karabuka wrote:
If it is only one small section of insanely long, steep and technical track everyone will be ok... Plus it does not look like a motorway...
If it is only one small section of insanely long, steep and technical track everyone will be ok... Plus it does not look like a motorway at all... But I get the principle of all natural, that seems to be lost, eventhough there has been a rework of natural roadgap in the middle few years back and a wooden bridge in the upper part since forever so thats been lost some time ago.
I was a track marshal on this exact section for the 2019 DH WC race and in qualifying, when it rained I had to witness many people crash, broken wrists, clavicles and so on. I’m glad they reworked it for this years Champs because it really sucked to see so many guys go down. To have a technical track is one thing but to have a dangerous one is another one and the line is very thin.
18
1
manhattanprjkt83 7/21/2021 7:32am
7/21/2021 7:32am
sspomer wrote:
has this made the rounds? tyler morland's (SRAM lifer) DH bike from insta. AXS w/ short cage and it has those big crazy anti-lock smart brakes...
has this made the rounds? tyler morland's (SRAM lifer) DH bike from insta.

AXS w/ short cage and it has those big crazy anti-lock smart brakes w/ covers we saw a bit ago (i'm kidding about anti-lock smart)

not sure if it's the same cage length but this was on one of semenuk's builds a last summer...

5
noeserdalt 7/21/2021 11:50am
7/21/2021 11:50am
sspomer wrote:
has this made the rounds? tyler morland's (SRAM lifer) DH bike from insta. AXS w/ short cage and it has those big crazy anti-lock smart brakes...
has this made the rounds? tyler morland's (SRAM lifer) DH bike from insta.

AXS w/ short cage and it has those big crazy anti-lock smart brakes w/ covers we saw a bit ago (i'm kidding about anti-lock smart)

https://www.instagram.com/p/CFXmyN9nhkr/


The Factory Bike Shop has one since last august
1
Primoz
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Primoz 7/21/2021 1:07pm
7/21/2021 1:07pm
At the time it was speculated it was just an X01 AXS with a DH cage mounted to it, so a DIY job. Semenuk's version has a blackbox sticker on it, so it might be a bit different, if there is going to be a DH AXS drivetrain. If there's not going to be one, it's essentially the same, but created with purpose - AXS allows Semenuk to run a standard shifter (handlebar accessible) that doesn't interfere with his barspins.
1
thomas1965
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thomas1965 7/21/2021 2:03pm
7/21/2021 2:03pm
sspomer wrote:
has this made the rounds? tyler morland's (SRAM lifer) DH bike from insta. AXS w/ short cage and it has those big crazy anti-lock smart brakes...
has this made the rounds? tyler morland's (SRAM lifer) DH bike from insta.

AXS w/ short cage and it has those big crazy anti-lock smart brakes w/ covers we saw a bit ago (i'm kidding about anti-lock smart)

manhattanprjkt83 wrote:
not sure if it's the same cage length but this was on one of semenuk's builds a last summer... [img]https://i.imgur.com/R8lvMbp.jpg[/img]
not sure if it's the same cage length but this was on one of semenuk's builds a last summer...

Not sure if I'm getting my timelines mixed up but could the blackbox sticker purely be because of the battery guard thing that came out with GX axs? At least the main body of the derailleur is clearly just xo1 eagle, I'd figure if it was anything actually custom it'd get the murdered out blackbox colorway
1
Primoz
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Primoz 7/21/2021 2:40pm
7/21/2021 2:40pm
If I remember correctly the cage is retrofittable. Even if it's just a short caged X01, it would make sense to plop a Blackbox sticker on it just to show off it's custom and one-off.
1
tavaenga
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tavaenga 7/21/2021 3:59pm
7/21/2021 3:59pm
sspomer wrote:
has this made the rounds? tyler morland's (SRAM lifer) DH bike from insta. AXS w/ short cage and it has those big crazy anti-lock smart brakes...
has this made the rounds? tyler morland's (SRAM lifer) DH bike from insta.

AXS w/ short cage and it has those big crazy anti-lock smart brakes w/ covers we saw a bit ago (i'm kidding about anti-lock smart)

manhattanprjkt83 wrote:
not sure if it's the same cage length but this was on one of semenuk's builds a last summer... [img]https://i.imgur.com/R8lvMbp.jpg[/img]
not sure if it's the same cage length but this was on one of semenuk's builds a last summer...

thomas1965 wrote:
Not sure if I'm getting my timelines mixed up but could the blackbox sticker purely be because of the battery guard thing that came out with...
Not sure if I'm getting my timelines mixed up but could the blackbox sticker purely be because of the battery guard thing that came out with GX axs? At least the main body of the derailleur is clearly just xo1 eagle, I'd figure if it was anything actually custom it'd get the murdered out blackbox colorway
So the Semenuk pic dates back to summer 2019 and looks to be a SRAM Force 1 short or med cage (“Exact Actuation” printed on the cage is a roadie technology) mated to a standard X01 AXS body with a then pre-production battery guard and a custom rainbow 7-spd cassette. I guess there is a beta version of the AXS software to set the whole thing up.
NateMob
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NateMob 7/21/2021 8:21pm
7/21/2021 8:21pm
They already announced this via their Instagram, also said the first would be for the Enduro.
TimBud
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TimBud 7/21/2021 10:00pm
7/21/2021 10:00pm
manhattanprjkt83 wrote:
not sure if it's the same cage length but this was on one of semenuk's builds a last summer... [img]https://i.imgur.com/R8lvMbp.jpg[/img]
not sure if it's the same cage length but this was on one of semenuk's builds a last summer...

thomas1965 wrote:
Not sure if I'm getting my timelines mixed up but could the blackbox sticker purely be because of the battery guard thing that came out with...
Not sure if I'm getting my timelines mixed up but could the blackbox sticker purely be because of the battery guard thing that came out with GX axs? At least the main body of the derailleur is clearly just xo1 eagle, I'd figure if it was anything actually custom it'd get the murdered out blackbox colorway
tavaenga wrote:
So the Semenuk pic dates back to summer 2019 and looks to be a SRAM Force 1 short or med cage (“Exact Actuation” printed on the...
So the Semenuk pic dates back to summer 2019 and looks to be a SRAM Force 1 short or med cage (“Exact Actuation” printed on the cage is a roadie technology) mated to a standard X01 AXS body with a then pre-production battery guard and a custom rainbow 7-spd cassette. I guess there is a beta version of the AXS software to set the whole thing up.
Yeah, it looks like they've just been playing with a Red cage from the etap mechs.
I'm surprised its not been a more common mod as its a pretty simple thing to do
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