MTB Tech Rumors and Innovation

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luisgutrod
Posts
332
Joined
5/8/2017
Location
Paris FR
12/9/2020 5:19am
more JadeX than topaz2, wonder where the rebound knob is..
C-LION
Posts
129
Joined
10/29/2018
Location
CH
12/9/2020 10:10am Edited Date/Time 12/9/2020 10:12am
Hi guys,

Let’s talk about DH bikes. Which brands do you think will release an update of their bike or even release a new DH bike?

Here are my thoughts:
- Trek: an update of the Session is long overdue in my view. The geometry is outdated and they do not offer a version with mixed wheel sizes. Someone in this forum was talking about a high-pivot speed machine...let’s see. The Slash has been updated already this year, next up the Session?
- Commencal: I heard rumors about an update of their mullet DH bike the Supreme DH 29-27. Maybe a shorter wheelbase/chainstay?
- YT: no mixed wheel size option...bit surprised to see them falling behind the curve. The Tues has been updated in 2018, so maybe we will get an update next year or in 2022. They will provide first release a new version of the Capra.
- Intense: will they release the new DH bike which is currently ridden by the factory team next year already?
- Specialized, Canyon, Scott, Mondraker and Cube all have revised their bikes only recently, so I do not expect them to release an update in this category.

What are your thoughts on this topic? Do you have any insights?

madsam9
Posts
59
Joined
6/11/2016
Location
IT
12/9/2020 12:04pm
I don't think it's going to be a dh bike, but We Are One confirmed in their ask us anything on Pinkbike that they're going to release their bike next year.
4
rockchomper
Posts
174
Joined
12/19/2019
Location
Rancho Cucamonga, CA US
12/9/2020 12:24pm
C-LION wrote:
Hi guys, Let’s talk about DH bikes. Which brands do you think will release an update of their bike or even release a new DH bike...
Hi guys,

Let’s talk about DH bikes. Which brands do you think will release an update of their bike or even release a new DH bike?

Here are my thoughts:
- Trek: an update of the Session is long overdue in my view. The geometry is outdated and they do not offer a version with mixed wheel sizes. Someone in this forum was talking about a high-pivot speed machine...let’s see. The Slash has been updated already this year, next up the Session?
- Commencal: I heard rumors about an update of their mullet DH bike the Supreme DH 29-27. Maybe a shorter wheelbase/chainstay?
- YT: no mixed wheel size option...bit surprised to see them falling behind the curve. The Tues has been updated in 2018, so maybe we will get an update next year or in 2022. They will provide first release a new version of the Capra.
- Intense: will they release the new DH bike which is currently ridden by the factory team next year already?
- Specialized, Canyon, Scott, Mondraker and Cube all have revised their bikes only recently, so I do not expect them to release an update in this category.

What are your thoughts on this topic? Do you have any insights?

I’m guessing transition will be coming out with a mullet soon hopefully a tr11 mullet
4
metadave
Posts
1242
Joined
2/15/2016
Location
Revelstoke, BC CA
12/9/2020 2:03pm
Can we just talk about this for a moment? What can the big guys argue against gearbox after seeing this? Like sign me up

https://www.vitalmtb.com/community/Shredmaster-2020,53572/setup,42992

but it limits suspension design.. Nevermind
but its heavy... wait 39lbs?..... Nevermind
It will ruin the aesthetic... er.... Nevermind
We just don't want to commit to it? Bingo
11
12/9/2020 4:01pm
C-LION wrote:
Hi guys, Let’s talk about DH bikes. Which brands do you think will release an update of their bike or even release a new DH bike...
Hi guys,

Let’s talk about DH bikes. Which brands do you think will release an update of their bike or even release a new DH bike?

Here are my thoughts:
- Trek: an update of the Session is long overdue in my view. The geometry is outdated and they do not offer a version with mixed wheel sizes. Someone in this forum was talking about a high-pivot speed machine...let’s see. The Slash has been updated already this year, next up the Session?
- Commencal: I heard rumors about an update of their mullet DH bike the Supreme DH 29-27. Maybe a shorter wheelbase/chainstay?
- YT: no mixed wheel size option...bit surprised to see them falling behind the curve. The Tues has been updated in 2018, so maybe we will get an update next year or in 2022. They will provide first release a new version of the Capra.
- Intense: will they release the new DH bike which is currently ridden by the factory team next year already?
- Specialized, Canyon, Scott, Mondraker and Cube all have revised their bikes only recently, so I do not expect them to release an update in this category.

What are your thoughts on this topic? Do you have any insights?

I’m guessing transition will be coming out with a mullet soon hopefully a tr11 mullet
I’m hoping a mullet patrol. They can call it the troll and laugh out loud as they take my money.
3
Kusa
Posts
274
Joined
6/25/2010
Location
CH
12/9/2020 5:30pm Edited Date/Time 12/9/2020 5:32pm
metadave wrote:
Can we just talk about this for a moment? What can the big guys argue against gearbox after seeing this? Like sign me up https://www.vitalmtb.com/community/Shredmaster-2020,53572/setup,42992 but...
Can we just talk about this for a moment? What can the big guys argue against gearbox after seeing this? Like sign me up

https://www.vitalmtb.com/community/Shredmaster-2020,53572/setup,42992

but it limits suspension design.. Nevermind
but its heavy... wait 39lbs?..... Nevermind
It will ruin the aesthetic... er.... Nevermind
We just don't want to commit to it? Bingo
I do think there is still a limitation in the frame / suspension design.
12/9/2020 5:46pm
metadave wrote:
Can we just talk about this for a moment? What can the big guys argue against gearbox after seeing this? Like sign me up https://www.vitalmtb.com/community/Shredmaster-2020,53572/setup,42992 but...
Can we just talk about this for a moment? What can the big guys argue against gearbox after seeing this? Like sign me up

https://www.vitalmtb.com/community/Shredmaster-2020,53572/setup,42992

but it limits suspension design.. Nevermind
but its heavy... wait 39lbs?..... Nevermind
It will ruin the aesthetic... er.... Nevermind
We just don't want to commit to it? Bingo
Kusa wrote:
I do think there is still a limitation in the frame / suspension design.
The only real limitation as far as I can tell is you can’t use the same frame design for a bike if you are also gonna spec derailleurs on your budget model. Though that’s much less an issue on dh bikes and I think they may be the first to convert to gearboxes as the standard rather than just a few small brands and diy guys
Primoz
Posts
4519
Joined
8/1/2009
Location
SI
12/9/2020 10:00pm
I don't think the current gearbox scenery is the solution. Pinion looks nice, but requires the use of a gripshift (though I'm told it's not an issue, still...). More importantly, it has an output shaft concentric to the input shaft (chainring spins around the 'BB'. That means it's designed to fit into the current design of bikes, it doesn't cater to high pivots particularly well.

Idler gears are what is used as a solution, and while I haven't ridden one yet (so sad...), I don't think it is the correct solution. Just by the way the cain is loaded, they are bound to be noisy (as all the reviewers say they are) and could cause unwanted chain wear as well. The main chainring just needs to be moved higher up, for which a gearbox is the ideal solution.

That means we need a paradigm shift from Sram/Shimano (realistically Shimano, as I don't see Sram pulling the industry the gearbox way on their own) and at the same time a paradigm shift of bike design towards high pivots.

High pivots are the solution, as with increasing wheel sizes the axle paths have become more and more forward to achieve the correct antisquat and more importantly pedal kickback values (because you start above the BB with the rear axle, the 'swingarm' rotates forwards, while it does backwards and mostly upwards if you start below the BB, as with a 26" bike). That and squeezing 29" wheels under the seat at full squish is also an issue (case in point, bent seat tubes), which is negated with the use of higher pivots (rearward axle path), which is also something that wasn't present with 26" bikes.
1
raozaki
Posts
37
Joined
5/25/2018
Location
CH
12/10/2020 4:39am
anybody else seen the banner ad for the new crankbrothers show range on vital?
must be close to release
SB14
Posts
147
Joined
4/21/2018
Location
NO
12/10/2020 6:01am
Primoz wrote:
I don't think the current gearbox scenery is the solution. Pinion looks nice, but requires the use of a gripshift (though I'm told it's not an...
I don't think the current gearbox scenery is the solution. Pinion looks nice, but requires the use of a gripshift (though I'm told it's not an issue, still...). More importantly, it has an output shaft concentric to the input shaft (chainring spins around the 'BB'. That means it's designed to fit into the current design of bikes, it doesn't cater to high pivots particularly well.

Idler gears are what is used as a solution, and while I haven't ridden one yet (so sad...), I don't think it is the correct solution. Just by the way the cain is loaded, they are bound to be noisy (as all the reviewers say they are) and could cause unwanted chain wear as well. The main chainring just needs to be moved higher up, for which a gearbox is the ideal solution.

That means we need a paradigm shift from Sram/Shimano (realistically Shimano, as I don't see Sram pulling the industry the gearbox way on their own) and at the same time a paradigm shift of bike design towards high pivots.

High pivots are the solution, as with increasing wheel sizes the axle paths have become more and more forward to achieve the correct antisquat and more importantly pedal kickback values (because you start above the BB with the rear axle, the 'swingarm' rotates forwards, while it does backwards and mostly upwards if you start below the BB, as with a 26" bike). That and squeezing 29" wheels under the seat at full squish is also an issue (case in point, bent seat tubes), which is negated with the use of higher pivots (rearward axle path), which is also something that wasn't present with 26" bikes.
Effiegear seams like a better fit for DH, or a better fit for the high pivot placement.
2
Noeserd
Posts
183
Joined
10/21/2020
Location
TR
12/10/2020 6:27am Edited Date/Time 12/10/2020 6:28am
New meta tr power is about to drop i think, commencal uploaded the photos to their pinkbike account yesterday






Eoin
Posts
368
Joined
3/6/2015
Location
FR
12/10/2020 7:18am
That is one good looking bike from Commencal!
Arobb123
Posts
11
Joined
7/7/2020
Location
GB
12/10/2020 7:56am
What happened about that nukeproof giga that was supposed to be released on the 9th as it's already the 10th and they haven't even been teasing a release on social media
Primoz
Posts
4519
Joined
8/1/2009
Location
SI
12/10/2020 8:02am
SB14 wrote:
Effiegear seams like a better fit for DH, or a better fit for the high pivot placement.
Indeed, but there is no free lunch when it comes to gearboxes. Pinion has the aforementioned 'issues' (gripshift and the concentric output), which the Effigear does not have as an issue. But it does have other issues.

While shifting on the Pinion requires releasing the pressure on pedals, it requires so just because you aren't able to pull the mechanism to another gear. Supposedly they shift the gearboxes under full power on the end of line check in their production, but they do so with a powerful motor, that has the force needed to move the shifting mechanism. With Effigear the mechanism is shaped in such a way that it gets locked into the current gear under power. Shifting to a faster gear is not a problem, as the new gear pulls the mechanism 'out' of the old one, but shifting to a slower gear is an issue as the current gear locks the mechanism. To release the current gear, the mechanism needs to be released.

With the original design of a concentric pivot and a rear hub with no freehub the speed of the bike did this as you let up on the pedals - the movement of the bike rotated the gear inside the gearbox away from the mechanism (just like the hub needs to rotate faster than the cassette for the freehub to disengage). This means that if you use a freehub on the rear hub, you need to backpedal to shift to a slower gear. Originally, with concentric pivots, this wasn't needed, but that means running only single pivot designs. Cavaliere now has a horst link design with a freehub rear hub, so you apparently need to backpedal to shift.

All this info comes directly from Effigear, the locked mechanism info is old from before the horst link Cavaliere bikes (I was asking because the possibility of such a design was interesting), but they recently told me the shifting mechanism has not been changed, so I'm basing these claims on those two informations that they have given me.
2
EugenM
Posts
79
Joined
8/18/2016
Location
TF
12/10/2020 8:04am Edited Date/Time 12/10/2020 9:05am
Arobb123 wrote:
What happened about that nukeproof giga that was supposed to be released on the 9th as it's already the 10th and they haven't even been teasing...
What happened about that nukeproof giga that was supposed to be released on the 9th as it's already the 10th and they haven't even been teasing a release on social media
☝🏿🙄😓...idk, I am waiting it for two days already. Guess they didn't manage to source enough components to launch it now(launch full production)..so, they are probably put all of their bets on the mega...probably ....or they are just launching it tomorrow, what do I know..🤷🏿‍♂️
C-LION
Posts
129
Joined
10/29/2018
Location
CH
12/10/2020 8:42am
A new bike will get released on Monday according to my sources. New Nukeproof Giga, or new SC Nomad maybe?
rockchomper
Posts
174
Joined
12/19/2019
Location
Rancho Cucamonga, CA US
12/10/2020 8:52am
found some shots of what looks like the new Maxxis Shorty on an PB add for a northshore rack.


12/10/2020 9:01am
C-LION wrote:
A new bike will get released on Monday according to my sources. New Nukeproof Giga, or new SC Nomad maybe?
I heard giga might be delayed till Jan
Mafflin
Posts
17
Joined
4/8/2019
Location
DE
12/10/2020 9:29am Edited Date/Time 12/10/2020 9:30am
Santa Cruz website now. So I guess nomad is coming very soon.



And the filename is "my21_hero_nomad3.jpg".
2
12/10/2020 11:56am
Mafflin wrote:
Santa Cruz website now. So I guess nomad is coming very soon. [img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2020/12/10/10160/s1200_Screenshot_from_2020_12_10_18_27_15.jpg[/img] And the filename is "my21_hero_nomad3.jpg".
Santa Cruz website now. So I guess nomad is coming very soon.



And the filename is "my21_hero_nomad3.jpg".
Mistake maybe? Seems like an odd way to do it. Who knows!
12/10/2020 11:57am
@kchomper Yes, that's the new Shorty--I think those photos have been discussed previously.
The tire was supposed to be off embargo 2+ months ago.
Assumption is that Maxxis production swamped because of bike boom and has to meet OEM customer demands first and foremost so has pushed all production to tires that OEMs need. The new Shortys are more of an Aftermarket product and haven't been released so I'm assuming they have been put on the back burner for now.
1
rugbyred
Posts
126
Joined
4/29/2012
Location
CA
12/10/2020 12:22pm
Mafflin wrote:
Santa Cruz website now. So I guess nomad is coming very soon. [img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2020/12/10/10160/s1200_Screenshot_from_2020_12_10_18_27_15.jpg[/img] And the filename is "my21_hero_nomad3.jpg".
Santa Cruz website now. So I guess nomad is coming very soon.



And the filename is "my21_hero_nomad3.jpg".
Isn’t that from 2014? Has a bunch of EWS stickers on it
w4s
Posts
272
Joined
9/2/2009
Location
Verdi, NV US
12/10/2020 12:26pm
Mafflin wrote:
Santa Cruz website now. So I guess nomad is coming very soon. [img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2020/12/10/10160/s1200_Screenshot_from_2020_12_10_18_27_15.jpg[/img] And the filename is "my21_hero_nomad3.jpg".
Santa Cruz website now. So I guess nomad is coming very soon.



And the filename is "my21_hero_nomad3.jpg".
rugbyred wrote:
Isn’t that from 2014? Has a bunch of EWS stickers on it
I can't see that being the new Nomad, I would bet that they'd go with same link configuration as their other bikes.
2
Mafflin
Posts
17
Joined
4/8/2019
Location
DE
12/10/2020 12:34pm
Come on, it's Nomad 3.
But they've put this photo on their website for a reason )))
It just means, that the fifth one coming soon
5
Brian_Peterson
Posts
1131
Joined
4/26/2011
Location
Canyon Country, CA US
12/10/2020 1:17pm
Santa Cruz having some fun with us?
1
Primoz
Posts
4519
Joined
8/1/2009
Location
SI
12/10/2020 1:40pm
Of course, Maxxis front, e-thirteen rear tyre, old Flow EX rims, old drivetrain, etc. Tongue
3
12/11/2020 1:05am
interesting bike/enduro/all mountain from norco in magnus mansons story:



mitch160
Posts
86
Joined
3/14/2020
Location
AU
12/11/2020 2:50am
ufka_pen15 wrote:
interesting bike/enduro/all mountain from norco in magnus mansons story: [img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2020/12/11/10163/s1200_pic1.jpg[/img] [img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2020/12/11/10164/s1200_pic2.jpg[/img] [img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2020/12/11/10162/s1200_pic3.jpg[/img]
interesting bike/enduro/all mountain from norco in magnus mansons story:



looks like the new range
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